Emulating Jose Mourinho ~ Fludidity and Mentality?

[Gallentos]

Well i was thinking more about Balanced Counter.

Any suggestions?

[Corner]

Mourinho doesn't really stick to on strategy and never has. He mixes it up on a game by game basis. But generally, I'm guessing Balanced + Standard + More Direct Passing.

Counter might be a bit too patient which is why I went for Standard, but he certainly uses Counter as well at times.

[Gallentos]

Your right but i choose Counter since his game is focused on fast swtich from defense to attack.

[ianscousemac]

Looking at his stats. I would say Balanced and Standard more direct passing passing and higher tempo with Hard Tackling.

[bababooey]

Your right but i choose Counter since his game is focused on fast swtich from defense to attack.

The counter mentality doesn't make your transition into a counter attack any quicker. All the mentality levels will transition to counter attacks when the counter is on, regardless of your settings. So what you need to do is create the environment that produces those instances. Mourinho generally has his teams sit back a little bit, otherwise there'd be no space to counter attack into.

It's very difficult to replicate his style in FM.

[yonko]

It's very difficult to replicate his style in FM.

No, it's not. Most people playing FM replicate Mourinho's style very well - they lose a game, whine and blame everyone and everything else but themselves.;)

[bababooey]

No, it's not. Most people playing FM replicate Mourinho's style very well - they lose a game, whine and blame everyone and everything else but themselves.;)

Honestly, I think it is. Mourinho likes to play with a defense that doesn't close down aggressively, and clearly a lot of people have come to the forums asking how to create a tactic that is defensive solid, without the aggressive closing down.

I mean, for example, my best shot at a tactic that was primarily "defense first" was a tactic that took it slow in attack, but was aggressive defending in our own half. (Arsenal, playing on "defend" with "hassle opponents.")

[rune_star]

...my best shot at a tactic that was primarily "defense first" was a tactic that took it slow in attack, but was aggressive defending in our own half. (Arsenal, playing on "defend" with "hassle opponents.")

But hassle opponents will do much more than defend aggressive in your own half! With hassle, you'll effectively be aggressive all over the pitch, which is far from playing compact defensively in own half. In order to get a "be aggressive only in own half" to, you'd need to use OI, but only positional OI's. That way you could set up your team with defensive/counter mentality, very rigid(?), but no hassle opponent. Perhaps even tick "stick to positions", "more disciplined" or whatever. And in positional OI's, you'd setup 'close down like a maniac', 'tackle recklessly' in all the zones that make out your own half...

No, it's not. Most people playing FM replicate Mourinho's style very well - they lose a game, whine and blame everyone and everything else but themselves.;)

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[Gallentos]

So its impossible to emulate him in game ME?

[rune_star]

Not impossible, but difficult due to the ME's limitations when it comes to pressing styles.

Also, like Corner mentions earlier in this thread, Mourinho uses (and have historically used) several different approaches in his career, but I take it your after his main approach in Inter/Chelsea?

In that case try going with something along the lines of:

Defensive/counter, very rigid, drop deeper, direct passes, stick to positions, stuck in, and then use positional OI's to close down all opponents attacking positions within your own half and NOT individual opponent players.

Formation wise it's really hard as he mixes it up a bit depending upon opponents. I'm thinking 4-4-1-1, 4-1-2-2-1-ish... In FM terms it gets really hard when it comes to role selection, and so on and so on...

[bababooey]

I chose hassle opponents because I had to compensate for the lack of closing down on a lower mentality. In retrospect maybe this wasn't the best replication of Mourinho, and it was probably pretty bad, it won me a Premier League title with Arsenal, conceding the fewest goals in the league. I can't complain.

[rune_star]

If it works, it works

[Corner]

I think it's easier and more realistic to try replicating a manager's general overall style rather than a tactic. No manager uses the same tactic(s) for every game, there will always be subtle changes. So if you can replicate the overall style and make your own subtle changes based on your opponent and what's needed for each game then that seems more realistic.

[yonko]

Honestly, I think it is. Mourinho likes to play with a defense that doesn't close down aggressively, and clearly a lot of people have come to the forums asking how to create a tactic that is defensive solid, without the aggressive closing down.

I mean, for example, my best shot at a tactic that was primarily "defense first" was a tactic that took it slow in attack, but was aggressive defending in our own half. (Arsenal, playing on "defend" with "hassle opponents.")

I see that you took my humorous comment way too seriously.

I can't speak too much about solid defensive tactics, cause I've never tried to create one. But I can definitely say that Mourinho doesn't use one way of playing the game. He adapts and reacts. There are games where his team is sitting back and defending (vs Liverpool or Atletico M last season). But there also games where his team is defending more aggressively and higher up the pitch (6-0 vs Arsenal for example).

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Thank you. Someone understood my sense of humor.

[rune_star]

Ok, here's an update... I found my own theory so interesting, that I had to try it out with my own Spurs side in 2018 against Newcastle in the PL, playing at their so called 'fortress'

Just posted it in another thread, but I think it is also relevant for this thread as this is where I initially posted the theory:

Trying to achieve a compact, deep, defensive side, that only starts pressing in our own half. This is what I did:

In that case try going with something along the lines of:

Defensive/counter, very rigid, drop deeper, direct passes, stick to positions, stuck in, and then use positional OI's to close down all opponents attacking positions within your own half and NOT individual opponent players.

I chose EVERYTHING in positional OI's for opponents AML, AMR, AMC, ST, MCL, MCR in their 4-2-3-1 formation. That is: Tight marking, close down, tackle hard. We initially deployed a sort of 4-2-1-2-1 with a flat back four, two DM's (DM/S & BWM), one WM, one AMC (AM/S), one IF/A (roaming) and a single striker (initially DLF/A).

Now, I've only tried this in one match so far, but it was relatively successful, winning me a 0-1 win away, in a VERY Chelsea'esque manner! The single goal being a 100% duplicate of Diego Costa's goal against Arsenal the other day. Otherwise the match panned out pretty much as expected. Opponents (Newcastle) had the majority of play and also shots, but all from the distance and no close calls what so ever. We (Spurs) on the other hand, stood deep, tackled and pressed heavily in our own half, retreated quickly when possesion was lost, and attacked extremely direct with somewhat long balls to flanks or single striker.

This is obviously work in progress and many things were adjusted during the match, but the baseline stands and I'm definately going to play more with this. The controlled defensive pressing in own half looked great an our transition, while one-dimensional, also looked somewhat like 'the special one'. I also have a fairly strong squad, both in terms of physical strength and overall abilities and that helps of course. Especially the two DMC's and the striker need to have some physique I think.

Some of the adjustments I made during the match was to move the AMC into MC spot, with CM/A role. Had to move him back up to AMC though. Also moved the IF to WM spot, with a W/A role and tried out a DW on the other side. Now the initial WM had a cut inside PI, so his WB/A behind him could come into play, but neither WB played a big part offensively. That is something I'll have to work on. On the other hand, they both still performed to 7.2 and 7.1 respectively so they did a good job still.

And the goal came from an interception by an ageing Honda as DM/S, playing a quick direct long ball over the head of the few remaining MC's and DC's, for our striker to latch onto, giving him a free 1-1 which he rocketed into the net

[brawla123]

There will always be different settings you can change to emulate Mourinho but I think there is more to Mourinho's style than just the tactics. His first season back at Chelsea, he had the tactics almost right but not the right players. This season, he's got the squad he wants and made his tactic stronger and we are now seeing a Mourinho team. Sometimes in this game it takes more than just a season to get your vision right.

[rune_star]

There will always be different settings you can change to emulate Mourinho but I think there is more to Mourinho's style than just the tactics. His first season back at Chelsea, he had the tactics almost right but not the right players. This season, he's got the squad he wants and made his tactic stronger and we are now seeing a Mourinho team. Sometimes in this game it takes more than just a season to get your vision right.

True that! Team cohesion plays a vital role in FM, and also, to play like most of Mourinho's teams throughout history, you need physically super humans! At least to some extent... He's ALWAYS had at least half his team being muscular and stamina superior

[isignedupfornorealreason]

Not impossible, but difficult due to the ME's limitations when it comes to pressing styles.

Also, like Corner mentions earlier in this thread, Mourinho uses (and have historically used) several different approaches in his career, but I take it your after his main approach in Inter/Chelsea?

In that case try going with something along the lines of:

Defensive/counter, very rigid, drop deeper, direct passes, stick to positions, stuck in, and then use positional OI's to close down all opponents attacking positions within your own half and NOT individual opponent players.

Formation wise it's really hard as he mixes it up a bit depending upon opponents. I'm thinking 4-4-1-1, 4-1-2-2-1-ish... In FM terms it gets really hard when it comes to role selection, and so on and so on...

4-1-4-1 I thought, he always seemed to have a destroyer midfield player, thinking of Makelelelelelelelelelelelele >_>

Defensive too.

To be honest I'm not that much of an expert on Chelsea, but they've always seemed to be a team that built on the principle of defence first, attack second under Mourinho.

This year the fundamentals seem to be there, but with more attacking potency.

[Luizinho]

Just to add my two cents as Chelsea fan.

It's really difficult to emulate Mourinho on FM, especially when it comes to Fluidity and Strategy. He's so adaptive and always alters his approach. In terms of fluidity it's obvious that Fabregas is the main creative outlet this year, however players such as Hazard and Oscar are still given a lot freedom, so I wouldn't be too rigid. As for strategy, a lot of people say how negative he is and how he parks the bus; however I would have to disagree as it being a generalisation. I think in 'big' games, you can say he definitely drops deeper and trys to restrict the opposition, but for the majority of his games I would say he's quite attacking and applies a high pressure game. So I would probably argue that he uses a Control strategy most of the time, then using a Counter/Defensive strategy when facing more 'big' games.

As for the formation I would say it is a 4-2-3-1 with DMCs. I know everyone states how players in the AMR/L slots don't track back, however if you specifically ask them to man-mark the opposing fullbacks, I think work's just fine. However he main reason for using AMR/Ls rather than MR/Ls is that they are far more potent in the AMR/L slots than in the MR/L slot, personally.

So on that I would go for this:

Formation: 4-2-3-1

Fluidity: Balanced

Strategy: Control (Counter/Defensive when playing in 'big' games)

GK: Goalkeeper (Defend) - Courtois

DR: Wingback (Support) - Ivanovic

DC: Central Defender (Defend) - Cahill

DC: Central Defender (Defend) - Terry

DL: Fullback (Attack) - Azpilicueta

DMRC: Regista (Support) - Fabregas

DMLC: Defensive Midfielder (Defend) - Matic

AMR: Inside Forward (Attack) - Willian

AMC: Attacking Midfielder (Support) - Oscar

AML: Inside Forward (Support) - Hazard (Roam from Position)

ST: Complete Forward (Attack) - Costa

However Mourinho will often drift from his starting plan during the game and try exploit the opposition as the game progresses. He never just sits and prays like Wenger (Ouch )

[crazyscotsman]

I believe Mourinho play with a Rigid fluidity and attacking mentality. While playing attacking he seems to play with standard defense d-line

[ZdlR]

Just to add my two cents as Chelsea fan.

...

So on that I would go for this:

Formation: 4-2-3-1

Fluidity: Balanced

Strategy: Control (Counter/Defensive when playing in 'big' games)

GK: Goalkeeper (Defend) - Courtois

DR: Wingback (Support) - Ivanovic

DC: Central Defender (Defend) - Cahill

DC: Central Defender (Defend) - Terry

DL: Fullback (Attack) - Azpilicueta

DMRC: Regista (Support) - Fabregas

DMLC: Defensive Midfielder (Defend) - Matic

AMR: Inside Forward (Attack) - Willian

AMC: Attacking Midfielder (Support) - Oscar

AML: Inside Forward (Support) - Hazard (Roam from Position)

ST: Complete Forward (Attack) - Costa

However Mourinho will often drift from his starting plan during the game and try exploit the opposition as the game progresses. He never just sits and prays like Wenger (Ouch )

I wonder about a few of those choices for this season's Chelsea.

Azpilicueta is the supportive fullback compared to Ivanovic's more attacking wingback. The former barely barely dribbles or shoots, but does pass a bit. Ivanovic's has two goals so far and gets into the box almost Alves-like in the frequency. If he's not in the box he's out wide and high on the right while Azpilicueta remains deep, often in a line of three with Matic and Cesc.

The next quandary is the midfield pivot. DMCs or MCs? I would probably go for the latter, although Cesc plays like both a modified Regista and a modified Advanced Playmaker. As a Regista, he'd be far too far back in the DMC strata to get into the box as often as he does, but perhaps he possesses the right PPMs to do that unaided by Player Instructions? As an MC, he would be a good Advanced Playmaker (support), which would aid his ability to assist the finish - something that a Regista does less frequently than 7 in 7 (over 3 key passes a game so far, which is a lot for a deep playmaker). He also gets to the edge of the box a lot. So, perhaps Regista is correct, but I'd watch for his contribution.

Matic is surely a Ball-Winner (defend)? He stays back primarily and shields the defence, but gets stuck in when players enter his zone. This could work in the DMC strata, but is a BWM(d) + Regista(s) enough protection for the centre backs? Probably not, but look at the yawning chasm that Leicester's Nugent had on the counter and at least we can say it is a realistic flaw!

I agree with Oscar as AMC(support), but FM doesn't replicate his 'jack-of-all-trades' role in that position. Expect low ratings as he doesn't assist enough and defends 'too much' for an AMC to achieve 7+ every game. Willian isn't the primary starter in AMR, that's Schurrle, and his role is a bit of an odd one to replicate, too. He would need 'sit narrower' Player Instruction if placed at AMR - so that Ivanovic can overlap him. But he times his runs in behind so well that I'd want him to be given an Attack mentality. I'd probably have to try a good few options before arriving at the right combination to replicate his role. He and Willian, when played in that role, both try to find space between the defence and midfield, so perhaps a supportive role would be apt, but with 'get further forward'? Lots of possibilities, including the 'roam from position' PI.

I would argue that Hazard is not a supportive role, but an attacking IF with 'stays wider'. He starts on the touch line to draw defenders toward him and, on receiving the ball, has only one aim- run directly at the opposition. He is the least 'team player' in the starting XI- almost an uncharacteristic luxury for Mourinho.

Costa doesn't have to create goals and is charged with pushing the opposition back line to create space and to finish moves off. However, he isn't so one dimensional to require a poacher role. I'd say he is an Advanced Forward.

Given all of this, I'd stick to a rigid philosophy because everyone in the team has a defined role, except for perhaps Oscar who does a little bit of everything. This season, the typical Mourinho low-block is gone, in favour of a higher press in all but the bigger games. Similarly, a Control mentality seems apt.

This should combine to emulate a Chelsea which is more dynamic, more attacking and less defensively sound than previous incarnations. 21 goals scored and 7 conceded is a very healthy 3:1 ratio, but Mourinho has won the PL previously with a goals-conceded of under 0.5 per game. Without a regular back six, it's easy to imagine that the goals conceded this season would be even higher, but there is a definite 'first XI'/'backups' theme to squad selection.

In the bigger games, the 4231 is eschewed in favour of a more conservative 4411, with Willian in the hole behind Costa and two banks of 4 staying deep, conceding possession and unashamedly looking to counter/capitalise on set pieces.

[Marshdweller]

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I was just thinking that too!

[rune_star]

Willian isn't the primary starter in AMR, that's Schurrle, and his role is a bit of an odd one to replicate, too. He would need 'sit narrower' Player Instruction if placed at AMR - so that Ivanovic can overlap him. But he times his runs in behind so well that I'd want him to be given an Attack mentality. I'd probably have to try a good few options before arriving at the right combination to replicate his role. He and Willian, when played in that role, both try to find space between the defence and midfield, so perhaps a supportive role would be apt, but with 'get further forward'? Lots of possibilities, including the 'roam from position' PI.

Schurrle = Raumdeuter

[ZdlR]

Schurrle = Raumdeuter

Oh, cool! Is it an AMR role, or a AMC?

[rune_star]

Wings only, so Schurrle/AMR/Raumdeuter is a go!

[Luizinho]

I wonder about a few of those choices for this season's Chelsea.

I intended it to be more of a consistent tactic for FM, as I don't think the true reflection of Chelsea's system would be as effective

Azpilicueta is the supportive fullback compared to Ivanovic's more attacking wingback. The former barely barely dribbles or shoots, but does pass a bit. Ivanovic's has two goals so far and gets into the box almost Alves-like in the frequency. If he's not in the box he's out wide and high on the right while Azpilicueta remains deep, often in a line of three with Matic and Cesc.

Totally agree with here, Ivanovic is much more attacking. However I feel even with a Wingback (S) he will still get up the pitch and is more aggressive on the ball (Run with Ball, Cross Ball) rather than a Fullback. I feel a Fullback, even with an Attack duty is still more restrictive on the ball than a Wingback (S).

The next quandary is the midfield pivot. DMCs or MCs? I would probably go for the latter, although Cesc plays like both a modified Regista and a modified Advanced Playmaker. As a Regista, he'd be far too far back in the DMC strata to get into the box as often as he does, but perhaps he possesses the right PPMs to do that unaided by Player Instructions? As an MC, he would be a good Advanced Playmaker (support), which would aid his ability to assist the finish - something that a Regista does less frequently than 7 in 7 (over 3 key passes a game so far, which is a lot for a deep playmaker). He also gets to the edge of the box a lot. So, perhaps Regista is correct, but I'd watch for his contribution.

For me he is definitely a Regista, especially when he has Oscar ahead of him. Mourinho has often changed the system this year, taking off Oscar and pushing Fabregas into the MC/AMC slot so he can have more of an impact up the pitch. What his role is when he plays there is debatable; Advanced Playmaker I suppose.

Matic is surely a Ball-Winner (defend)? He stays back primarily and shields the defence, but gets stuck in when players enter his zone. This could work in the DMC strata, but is a BWM(d) + Regista(s) enough protection for the centre backs? Probably not, but look at the yawning chasm that Leicester's Nugent had on the counter and at least we can say it is a realistic flaw!

You could argue that he is a BWM. However like you rightfully point out, a BWM and a Regista together is going to get exposed time and time again. So I feel your going to get more balanced system within FM if he's a DM (D). He'll still close down and win the ball, especially if he's given the 'Tackle Hard' PI; this is why I didn't go for an Anchorman as it's to restrictive for Matic on the ball and off it.

I agree with Oscar as AMC(support), but FM doesn't replicate his 'jack-of-all-trades' role in that position. Expect low ratings as he doesn't assist enough and defends 'too much' for an AMC to achieve 7+ every game. Willian isn't the primary starter in AMR, that's Schurrle, and his role is a bit of an odd one to replicate, too. He would need 'sit narrower' Player Instruction if placed at AMR - so that Ivanovic can overlap him. But he times his runs in behind so well that I'd want him to be given an Attack mentality. I'd probably have to try a good few options before arriving at the right combination to replicate his role. He and Willian, when played in that role, both try to find space between the defence and midfield, so perhaps a supportive role would be apt, but with 'get further forward'? Lots of possibilities, including the 'roam from position' PI.

It's very much personal opinion. I feel giving him an Advanced Playmaker role may take away the emphasis off Fabregas a bit, which I wouldn't want. I personally feel the AMC (S) suits him within FM, but I would have to test it to be absolutely sure. I feel a Support duty is necessary given the space between the DMs and AMR/C/Ls; I feel FM will punish you if you give him an Attack duty, but again I'd have to trail it.

Yeah Schurrle has be given the nod this year, but whether it'll be him or Willian I feel the Attack duty works well. There is more of an emphasis to get in behind like you say. I feel either one of them is more direct in this sense than Hazard who will sometimes come a bit deeper to get the ball and run at the defence. I think variety is key to be successful on FM and you could argue that both of the wingers need Attack duty.

I would argue that Hazard is not a supportive role, but an attacking IF with 'stays wider'. He starts on the touch line to draw defenders toward him and, on receiving the ball, has only one aim- run directly at the opposition. He is the least 'team player' in the starting XI- almost an uncharacteristic luxury for Mourinho.

As I said in my previous paragraph, he will look to run at them; so he definitely needs the 'Run with Ball' PI given. (I didn't list every PI for every player). As I also said above the Support duty encourages him to come a bit deeper and get on the ball more, however his on the ball instructions are much more of an Attack duty. It's a difficult role to get right with FM for me.

Costa doesn't have to create goals and is charged with pushing the opposition back line to create space and to finish moves off. However, he isn't so one dimensional to require a poacher role. I'd say he is an Advanced Forward.

An Advanced Forward would work really well. He would definitely need the 'Move Into Channels' PI as he does this a lot. However I feel the CF role would get the best out of him on FM.

Given all of this, I'd stick to a rigid philosophy because everyone in the team has a defined role, except for perhaps Oscar who does a little bit of everything. This season, the typical Mourinho low-block is gone, in favour of a higher press in all but the bigger games. Similarly, a Control mentality seems apt.

It's how you interpret Philosophy on this game I suppose. For me I think it's a Balanced philosphy, as I think a lot of players are given Freedom (Fabregas, Hazard & Oscar); which they wouldn't get with a Rigid philosophy, given the roles I distributed.

This should combine to emulate a Chelsea which is more dynamic, more attacking and less defensively sound than previous incarnations. 21 goals scored and 7 conceded is a very healthy 3:1 ratio, but Mourinho has won the PL previously with a goals-conceded of under 0.5 per game. Without a regular back six, it's easy to imagine that the goals conceded this season would be even higher, but there is a definite 'first XI'/'backups' theme to squad selection.

Agreed.

In the bigger games, the 4231 is eschewed in favour of a more conservative 4411, with Willian in the hole behind Costa and two banks of 4 staying deep, conceding possession and unashamedly looking to counter/capitalise on set pieces.

It's hard to get a grasp what his take on big games are this season. Against City he did exactly what you said, but I'm not sure whether this will be his go to system. Time will tell I guess. Last year he went for a 4-3-3/4-1-4-1 formation, which I can see coming back again this year for certain games. I'd anticipate that Ramires will come into the central midfield with Matic and Fabregas. Maybe a DM with a B2B and DLP ahead of him? Again we'll have to wait to see! Bring on FM15!

[max787]

Not an exact replica, but I've had success with this and I'm pleased with how it plays out.

Balanced

Counter

Be more disciplined + drill crosses

GK - GK defend

RB - full back support

CD - CB defend

CD - CB defend

LB - Wing back attack

DMCR - DLP support

DMCL - Anchor man defend

CM - CM attack

AMR - Winger attack

AML - Inside forward support

ST - Defensive forward support

[poma]

spamming*