allyc31 Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Hi Guys, I've been think about something the last few days and was wondering if any of you have an opinion on it? Full disclaimer; i haven't actually tried anything in game yet as i've been super busy in work and don't have the time to sit down and devote hours to experiment. Hopefully someone on here will have tried something similar and can point me in the right direction. So, basically i want to press the ball but not all out pressing. I want my players to keep the shape (so, Very Rigid then) and only close down when the ball comes near their area. However, i want them to be aggressive when closing down. Then, if they don't win the ball, i want them to drop back into their position. The main thing i want though is only have one player closing down at a time. Does that make sense? Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 You can obviously select Role / Duty combinations that have high Closing Down settings without any Team Instructions being applied. Then you can ask certain Role / Duty combinations to Close Down More, but I'm not convinced you have control to just have single players pressing at a time, because the logic behind it will work on the proximity of player(s) to the ball carrier. Players are rarely so spaced out on the pitch that this Closing Down trigger would only affect one of them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyc31 Posted October 8, 2014 Author Share Posted October 8, 2014 You can obviously select Role / Duty combinations that have high Closing Down settings without any Team Instructions being applied.Then you can ask certain Role / Duty combinations to Close Down More, but I'm not convinced you have control to just have single players pressing at a time, because the logic behind it will work on the proximity of player(s) to the ball carrier. Players are rarely so spaced out on the pitch that this Closing Down trigger would only affect one of them. Would individual man marking work? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Would individual man marking work? It would make whoever is given the marking duty stick to the AI player whenever you don't have the ball. So, if you only want one person at a time pressing, you couldn't use this on multiple players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyc31 Posted October 8, 2014 Author Share Posted October 8, 2014 It would make whoever is given the marking duty stick to the AI player whenever you don't have the ball.So, if you only want one person at a time pressing, you couldn't use this on multiple players. How come? That sounds roughly what i want (if you think it doesn't then i've obviously done a bad job at writing down my plan. Apologies). Ideally i would like my player to give their opposite number space until they receive the ball and then close him down though. I also assume that setting individual marking can compromise the formation? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyc31 Posted October 8, 2014 Author Share Posted October 8, 2014 Actually, having reread my first post i think i've done a bad job of explaining it. I actually don't want my players to be overly aggressive. I want them to keep shape until a player enters their zone. At this point they should close down, putting pressure on the opposition player and maybe winning the ball. Once the opportunity to win the ball has passed, my player should fall back into position. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 You could try to use specific man marking then, but don't instruct your DCs to do it or you'll have all sorts of bother with your defensive line. How widespread your marking is will determine the sort of shape you keep. I wrote something up in here about a narrow 4-4-2 diamond that showed some of the benefits of using specific man marking - cautiously. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
deserter Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Specific marking compromises your defensive shape severely though. Do you want to stand off opponents and get stuck in? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyc31 Posted October 8, 2014 Author Share Posted October 8, 2014 Specific marking compromises your defensive shape severely though.Do you want to stand off opponents and get stuck in? I was thinking maybe Stand Off, with stay on feet using Defensive mentality (on Very Rigid). I really to limit the amount of ccc the oppo have but, at the same time, i only really want to have 2-3 chances but make them good chances. I don't know about the rest of the set up yet. Mainly trying to think about the pressing first. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bababooey Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 This thread is exactly why I hope that FM15 will include much more information on how certain settings actually play out. This isn't a dig at OP, I think his question was really valid. It's just evidence that there's so much ambiguity within the game and people need to come on here and ask questions. And to maybe answer OP's latest point, I think you're looking for a mentality that allows the opponents to come on to you, into your half, and then hit them on the break. This actually kind of reminds me of my Arsenal save. Maybe a defensive mentality + get stuck in? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune_star Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Just tried to achieve something similar (though not the part with one player pressing). It started in the "Emulating Jose Mourinho" thread which you can also read. Trying to achieve a compact, deep, defensive side, that only starts pressing in our own half. This is what I did: In that case try going with something along the lines of: Defensive/counter, very rigid, drop deeper, direct passes, stick to positions, stuck in, and then use positional OI's to close down all opponents attacking positions within your own half and NOT individual opponent players. I chose EVERYTHING in positional OI's for opponents AML, AMR, AMC, ST, MCL, MCR in their 4-2-3-1 formation. That is: Tight marking, close down, tackle hard. We initially deployed a sort of 4-2-1-2-1 with a flat back four, two DM's (DM/S & BWM), one WM, one AMC (AM/S), one IF/A (roaming) and a single striker (initially DLF/A). Now, I've only tried this in one match so far, but it was relatively successful, winning me a 0-1 win away, in a VERY Chelsea'esque manner! The single goal being a 100% duplicate of Diego Costa's goal against Arsenal the other day. Otherwise the match panned out pretty much as expected. Opponents (Newcastle) had the majority of play and also shots, but all from the distance and no close calls what so ever. We (Spurs) on the other hand, stood deep, tackled and pressed heavily in our own half, retreated quickly when possesion was lost, and attacked extremely direct with somewhat long balls to flanks or single striker. This is obviously work in progress and many things were adjusted during the match, but the baseline stands and I'm definately going to play more with this. The controlled defensive pressing in own half looked great an our transition, while one-dimensional, also looked somewhat like 'the special one'. I also have a fairly strong squad, both in terms of physical strength and overall abilities and that helps of course. Especially the two DMC's and the striker need to have some physique I think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 This thread is exactly why I hope that FM15 will include much more information on how certain settings actually play out. Advance warning here - I'm pretty sure I saw Neil Brock say that there are no changes to the level of in game documentation in FM15, in the Feedback Thread for the Features Video in General Discussion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune_star Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 The level may not have changed, not may it need change if only the content of the current level has changed if you know what I mean... In the video, we see some brief desciptions of player roles (also the 'old' ones, not just the new breed), and those are NOT the same descriptions as we have now in FM14. So maybe the quantity of documentation won't change, but if the current descriptions gets better wording, then I'm sure it'll help too Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 From what I saw of the new Roles, they are worded very well - as long as they actually do what the words say Anyway, back on-topic..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyc31 Posted October 10, 2014 Author Share Posted October 10, 2014 From what I saw of the new Roles, they are worded very well - as long as they actually do what the words say Anyway, back on-topic..... Thanks for the helps guys. I actually tried sit much deeper and stand off, get suck in but it didn't really work. i don't want to use Direct Passing as i don't want to encourage recycling of possession and only want to go forward when the counter is absolutely on. Thats why i see individual pressing as such an important aspect to this tactic; i never want my members of my side being caught out of position and leaving space in behind. I want to do that to the opposition. Have some time over the weekend so will give this more thought. Keep the suggestions coming though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune_star Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Ok, getting closer to an understanding of what you're after ;-) In that case loose the direct passing. All mentalities will play the counter by default when it is ON as you say I do think however that your approach will find it very hard to create goals attackwise, with that much 'safety' in the attacking play. But you can definately come close to that style of play! Go defensive/counter, and very rigid to stay deep and keep formation. Use TI's drop deep (much deeper?), stick to position, more disciplined to enhance formation strictness. Pass shorter, retain possesion, play out of defence, perhaps also lower tempo to keep the ball in your own ranks. Mix with PI's fewer risky balls, dribble less where applicable and appropiate (I'd do it with the fullbacks and DMC's especially. But any position can take it depending on your formation). And as mentioned before, use OI's to tight mark, close down, and perhaps tackle hard ('tackle hard' depending on your preference of style) on opponents POSITIONS, and NOT individual players, and only opponents attacking positions. Mind you, that with that many players in your own half, and a "don't loose the ball and open behind us" mindset, the opponent will be in a VERY good position to snatch the ball away from you right after your own "ball stealing", if you don't put players forward and risk just a little bit in a fast transition! There'll be no one to pass to up the field, and no one will have the tactical liberty to play the long/through ball and the opponent will have plenty of players around your own guys! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshdweller Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 I don't think Very Rigid actually affects the formation in the way I understand you want it to; I think for what you want you should select the Be More Disciplined and Stick to Position shouts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune_star Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 It's always a balance with pros & cons, but very rigid will (among other things) lower the creative freedom of players, so they are more apt to follow the managers instructions more strict, instead of getting bright ideas of their own. I'm not a very rigid kind'a manager my self, but the OP's requirements seem to point in a very rigid direction Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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