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speedy316

Apparently No Relation

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Just had my Dof bring in this youngster from Motherwell, apparently no relation to his more famous namesake and Glasgow Rangers manager tho!

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i am buoyed by the fact Norwich have decent youth setup and i have brought in some really decent youth coaches

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high determination so that's a good sign with a decent potential

Determination has nothing to do with potential or player development.

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The way Super Ally went around back in the day, there's probably quite a few little Ally's kicking around West and Central Scotland...he hit on my wife's Aunt back in the day too. That rapscallion.

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Explain oh wise one...

Not much to explain, really. Determination do not have an impact to the players future development or progress.

It is all about the players "hidden attributes" and training facilities etc.

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Not much to explain, really. Determination do not have an impact to the players future development or progress.

It is all about the players "hidden attributes" and training facilities etc.

Ever heard of determination to succeed. I suggest you do an experiment as I have. Two identical players except for name and one had determination 1 the other determination of 20. Guess who gad the better career.

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Explain oh wise one...

Determination is an in-match attribute, it determines how they react to for instance being down by a goal or two. A determined player is more likely to keep on trying to get back into the game, while a less determined player will give up more easily.

The attributes of interest for player development are ambition and professionalism. Ambition is a player's desire to be the very best he can be and professionalism is how hard he actually works to achieve his goals.

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Work rate will affect if he will complain about high training workloads as well.

Work Rate is also an in-match attribute and has nothing to do with training. Professionalism is what determines how he reacts to high training workloads. An unprofessional player will be unwilling to work hard in training and then start to complain if asked to do so. Professional players are the ones that turn up to practice every day, no matter how unhappy they are with other circumstances in the club, do what they're told to do and don't complain, except if they feel that the level of training isn't high enough.

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The better ratings in games the better training output as well. So you might argue that high determination and work rate have an indirect influence on training as these two attributes tend to have a positive influence on a players rating in a game.

Direct influence on training, though, only professionalism and ambition counts.

This is what I've read some years ago after countless tests had been made over a couple of versions of FM.

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Just hoping I can develop him into a world class midfielder

Seeing you are Norwich only 2½ seasons in I very much doubt he'll ever become a world class midfielder. He might get world class reputation, though, if you win titles with him in your starting eleven.

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Determination is an in-match attribute, it determines how they react to for instance being down by a goal or two. A determined player is more likely to keep on trying to get back into the game, while a less determined player will give up more easily.

The attributes of interest for player development are ambition and professionalism. Ambition is a player's desire to be the very best he can be and professionalism is how hard he actually works to achieve his goals.

+1

..............

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Ever heard of determination to succeed. I suggest you do an experiment as I have. Two identical players except for name and one had determination 1 the other determination of 20. Guess who gad the better career.

I've done that. And the conclusion is that it do not have any sort of impact what so ever on the players training progress or development. Not even a single nipple :<

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Is it more of a half-n-half with determination? In that most real players - ie not one deliberately created for a test - will have high values in these hidden attributes in most cases, if they have high determination? I must admit, I've noticed a lot of players with high determination becoming very good, and the inverse also being true.

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Is it more of a half-n-half with determination? In that most real players - ie not one deliberately created for a test - will have high values in these hidden attributes in most cases, if they have high determination? I must admit, I've noticed a lot of players with high determination becoming very good, and the inverse also being true.

Even though the player have a high determination, there is no guarantee that his hidden attributes will be good. But of course it do happens that both the hidden attributes and the determination is high, which will result in a good development, but that is only due to the hidden attributes, and not the determination skill, which some might think it is.

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How do you explain identical players other than determination having largely different careers. Virtually no injuries either as injury oroneness set to 1.

Isn't Ambition to do with wanting to move to a bigger club/league?

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Even though the player have a high determination, there is no guarantee that his hidden attributes will be good. But of course it do happens that both the hidden attributes and the determination is high, which will result in a good development, but that is only due to the hidden attributes, and not the determination skill, which some might think it is.

Yeah, I'm not saying one always follows the others, but could be a case in player development that a large number of players end up with patterns there. Or it could all be rubbish - I don't pay enough attention to that to notice for sure.

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How do you explain identical players other than determination having largely different careers. Virtually no injuries either as injury oroneness set to 1.

Isn't Ambition to do with wanting to move to a bigger club/league?

Do you have any examples?

All the threads over the years have come to virtually the same conclusion in that determination does not affect growth.

Doesn't change the fact that determination is an important attribute for a player it just has minimal or no effect on how that player improves.

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Determination doesn't affect growth, as Cougar said.

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My experiment that I described earlier is the example.

That doesn't really work as an experiment. You only did it with 2 players, so there could have been a myriad of reasons why the less determined player had a worse career. There is a reason why drug trials and other experiments go into more detail than just picking two similar people...

Besides that, nobody really disputes that determination is an important attribute for players to have -- it is just not immediately relevant when it comes to a player reaching their potential ability. It will however affect their mentality when you are a goal down. Confusion about a player's determination probably comes from the fact that players with high determination will almost always have good hidden personality attributes, and players with poor determination the reverse.

http://www.thedugout.net/community/showthread.php?t=67502

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The definition of the attribute as I'm aware: How much determination he has to succeed on and off the field.

That doesn't categorically clarify what role it plays, but it certainly indicates it does have a part to play.

In different ways all the stats affect the likeliness of reaching CA, players with the poor temperament and unable to handle pressure situations may really struggle to develop and play well at clubs in intense situations. Yet may develop reasonably well in 'easier' surroundings. Professionalism and Ambition are the largest modifiers, at least for time spent at their peak ability. A really determined but unprofessional individual could hit a high CA but then drop off quickly when not playing regularly anymore or when getting into their 30's.

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Yes, determination, pressure and temperament will affect how they perform in matches. They are a part of influencing how well their CA and attributes are translated into a performance on the pitch. Ambition and professionalism are still the attributes that are directly tied to their development; how good they want to become and how hard they are willing to work to reach those goals.

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I found that Ambition and professionalism is the main stats when it comes to player development. Beside this, determination do also affect their development progress, but not as much as the hidden attributes Ambition and professionalism.

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No similar, identical.

Either way it's an utterly terrible way of doing things -- and doesn't come remotely close to proving anything.

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