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Brendan Rodgers Liverpool '13-'14 (help needed)

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Just a quick introduction, I have been playing FM since the days of CM 97/98 and have enjoyed mixed success, I have never been one who can win everything in the first season and I enjoy building a team that wins in the years to come.

However FM14 seems to have stumped me quite a bit, I first got the game and was sacked multiple times as Liverpool manager until I got a lucky break and kept my job for more than a couple of months. I managed that a few times with a different formation to what I am trying to use now.

I would like to make a tactic to replicate a teams formation at the time of playing my game and as a Liverpool supporter I would like to make the tactic which got Brendan Rodgers the success he had last season.

I am trying to create a tactic for Liverpool based on last seasons formation of 4-1-2-2-1 (3 CM's, AMR, AML and STC)

Defence

The full backs have different jobs, the LB pushes further forward as if they are a WB. While the RB plays slightly more conservative.

The CD's do not roam forward anymore and are asked to just be the mainstay of the defence

Midfield

The DM drops deep between the 2 CD's and acts as a third CD allowing the FB's to push on with enough cover at the back.

The 2 CM's play as a good pairing with one holding the centre of the pitch while the other roams forward when the team have possession but is quick to recover to his position when the ball is turned over.

Wide Players

The AML plays slightly in field allowing the FB to burst past and put a ball into the box. When moving inside with the ball the AML is a creative force and usually a right footed player looking for a through ball or if the defence back off, a shot.

The AMR is played as a traditional winger looking to beat his man and then either get a cross in or run at the centre of defence and cause problems.

Striker

The STC is a player that moves around a lot and often pops up infront of the oppositions defence giving him the opportunity to play a through ball or run at them and take a shot if the opportunity arises.

Applying this to Football Manager I came up with the following formation and Player Roles.

tactic_zps4de7a682.jpg

- GK, a normal GK as to just do the simple things

- LB (CWB), to push on down the left wing and overload the oppositions fullback

- CD's, normal CD's to do a job of just defending

- RB (FB), act as a normal fullback supporting the winger

- DM (HB), to drop deep between the two CD's and give more defensive stability while the full backs are attacking

- CM (BBM), the legs of the midfield, supporting attacks and helping out in defense

- CM (CM), hold the centre of midfield but also help in attack

- AML (IF), comes inside the pitch and is a creative force

- AMR (W), a traditional winger

- STC (DLF), drops deep and causes confusion of the oppositions defence whether to follow him or not

The following team instructions have been chosen

TeamInstructions_zps532f751f.jpg

These are the reasons for choosing the instructions -

- Work Ball Into Box (Midfield passing and creativity are 3rd and 2nd in the league)

- Stay On Feet (Defence are 14th at tackling in the league)

- Be More Expressive (Creativity and passing are 2nd and 3rd, Movement for strikers 2nd)

- Shorter Passing (overall 1st in the league)

The following are the only individual player instructions I have given out -

GK

keeper_zpsc812f142.jpg

- Distribute to Defenders (to start play from the back and not lose possession)

- Pass it Shorter (to start play from the back and not lose possession)

DL

LeftBack_zps69782b7d.jpg

- Run Wide With Ball (to bypass the AML on the outside)

DR

Rightback_zps7505e355.jpg

- Get Further Forward (to push forward but not as much as a WB)

AML

AML_zps0ebd2463.jpg

- Sit Narrower (To play inside and allow the fullback to overlap more)

I had a look through the Twelve Step Guide and applied the steps to my tactic but I seem to be coming up short in my games.

I am looking at keeping the shape and the style of play the same, ie the AML cutting inside while the LB overlaps. But it does not seem to be working for me.

If there is anyone that can point me in the right direction i would be very greatful.

Andy

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Personally, I wouldn't have a BBM and a CM(A) - 2 CM (one S, one A) should do fine, although if and when Coutinho plays centrally I tend to have him as an AP. I also think a CF fits better up front.

I try to keep PI's to a minimum and given the way you've set up, I would wonder whether there's a need for Run Wide for your LB as with the AML sitting narrower, the LB should naturally aim to overlap.

As for the Liverpool style, they were at their best when they pressed high as a team and then attacking quickly. You may like to think about how you want to try and do that. It's worth remembering that they finished the season scoring over 100 goals and conceding over 50, so clearly scoring goals and an attacking mentality were overall favoured over keeping clean sheets.

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I'd also look at the role you want to give to Gerrard. It is well documented that he operated as deep lying playmaker last season. I don't believe Liverpool played with a half back at all last season from the matches I saw.

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I'd also look at the role you want to give to Gerrard. It is well documented that he operated as deep lying playmaker last season. I don't believe Liverpool played with a half back at all last season from the matches I saw.

I would argue he was more of a half back towards the end of the season, especially when they played the diamond system which encouraged the full-backs to push on and centre backs to move wider.

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Personally, I wouldn't have a BBM and a CM(A) - 2 CM (one S, one A) should do fine, although if and when Coutinho plays centrally I tend to have him as an AP. I also think a CF fits better up front.

I try to keep PI's to a minimum and given the way you've set up, I would wonder whether there's a need for Run Wide for your LB as with the AML sitting narrower, the LB should naturally aim to overlap.

As for the Liverpool style, they were at their best when they pressed high as a team and then attacking quickly. You may like to think about how you want to try and do that. It's worth remembering that they finished the season scoring over 100 goals and conceding over 50, so clearly scoring goals and an attacking mentality were overall favoured over keeping clean sheets.

Thanks for the reply,

The thinking behind the BBM was that it would do the job of Henderson, ie push forward in attack and defend when we lose possession. I will try with the CM (S) and CM (A) as I could always affect the way they play with Individual Instructions if it starts to go wrong.

The DLF seems to be doing what I expect of him at the minute, dropping off and showing for the ball while also making runs into the box and scoring a few goals. So I will keep him as DLF but also consider changing to CF if needed in certain games.

Yeah, after looking at the Player Instructions I have decided to take away the Run Wide With Ball for the exact same reason as you stated.

The only reason I haven't got the team on Hassle Opponents is that the work rate of the squad in the game is really low for the league, 14th in fact and so I consider that a big factor in not making them press. I would expect them to press but not effectively as a team.

I have changed the mentality to Attacking and kept it Fluid due to the amount of specialist roles.

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I'd also look at the role you want to give to Gerrard. It is well documented that he operated as deep lying playmaker last season. I don't believe Liverpool played with a half back at all last season from the matches I saw.

From watching the team play and seeing the position on Gerrard/Lucas, they dropped between the central defenders and made a back 3 while the fullbacks pushed on to support the attack.

The only way I have seen this happen in the game is by giving the DM a role of Half Back as a Deep Lying Playmaker stays in front of the defence leaving the flanks exposed by the CD's staying closer to each other.

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I would argue he was more of a half back towards the end of the season, especially when they played the diamond system which encouraged the full-backs to push on and centre backs to move wider.

This is exactly the way I see it, by pushing the central defenders slightly wider so they can cover the advancing full backs

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This is exactly the way I see it, by pushing the central defenders slightly wider so they can cover the advancing full backs

I agree... certainly for the 2nd half of the season I'd say the closest match would be HB but his natural playmaking tendencies made him appear sometime to be a DLP. Lucas, however was more a a DM when in the DM position and just a liability when played anywhere else.

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I believe that Gerrard isn't used as much of a creative force in the team anymore and the system asks him to offer the central defenders another option rather than hoofing the ball long, Gerrard then plays simple balls to the two central midfielders or the full backs to start an attacking move. Sometimes he plays a long ball but not as much as he used to, I see the AML as the creative player in this formation, or Coutinho when played centrally next to Henderson.

Lucas is not the player he used to be but on FM he has the attributes to play as a Half Back pretty well

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Have a look at this from the Man Utd vs Liverpool game from last season at Old Trafford. It was a game when Liverpool deployed the diamond formation and Sterling caused all sorts of trouble for United.

http://www.espnfc.co.uk/gamecast/367213/gamecast.html

If you go to the tactical information and look at Liverpool's average positions it can give you an idea as to the roles they played that day.

Gerrard to me looks more advanced than a half back but I can see how it could be interpreted that he was half back as you can see the central defenders pushing out wider.

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Right,

After a meeting with the board after a 2-1 defeat to Burnley, I am currently 16th in the League, they have given me until the end of teh seaosn to turn things around (we will see how long they put up with my bad form)

I really can't get to grips with this formation and so I am willing to start from scratch again to get this formation working, hopefully with help from this forum.

I am willing to listen to any advice and put it into practice. I can upload screenshots of anything you need.

the following is my squad

squad1_zpsdafa3cc5.jpg

squad2_zps07b657b9.jpg

This is my Tactic setup

tactic_zps97e8ab23.jpg

I will be leaving all Player Instructions and Team Instructions blank at the minute and will add them when I see that they are needed, or are advised from here.

Any help is much appreciated and I can also find out how the forum users as a whole, build a tactic.

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This isn't like BR's Liverpool.

Attacking is a bit gung-ho for Liverpool I think. Your players will have more creative freedom, which (as I understand it) your WB will almost be like a CWB, especially with fluid. I really think that Johnson was the more attacking FB and Flanagan stayed back a lot more, but I'd have both on support roles with the LB having hold position PI.

I'd say Gerrard was much more of a DLP/D than a Half Back. Yes, he dropped between the defenders, but the rest of his duties pointed much more towards a DLP.

I'd say Advanced Playmaker/Attack and BBM/S for Coutinho and Henderson respectively. Henderson was up and down the pitch as you said and I think that CM/S is a bit stagnant. I do love the CM/A role, but it's not much like Coutinho.

The attacking roles are a bit difficult to replicate in FM and I'd say it really depends on who you want to play at the focal point. I used to use swap it about from game to game depending on form. Both wide men on attack roles and the striker always as a Complete Forward/Support.

Good luck.

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Thanks for all of the replies, I will take all of them into consideration.

I will start with the Defence as I see Mignolet as a conventional Keeper.

Defence

The system that is used by Rodgers uses the full backs as an attacking outlet. How I see it is that the LB is the more attacking player due to the AML in front of him sitting narrower and therefore giving more space for the LB to move in to. The RB has a AMR who plays wider on the right and thus making it harder for him to overlap, sometimes the RB even runs on the inside of the AML.

The 2 CD's are asked to play as normal defenders but also needed to be comfortable on the ball and play along the back line and to the DM, only occasionally looking for a long bal to an advanced player.

Which Roles and Duties would you consider for these players, along with Player Instructions?

My thinking would be for the LB to be either FB(A) or WB(A) with Stay Wider and Get Further Forward (to make the opposition FB choose between following the run of the LB or the AML)

RB would be FB(S) or WB(S) with no Player Instructions

CD's would both be CD(D) and Pass Shorter

I do not mind any criticism at all for the above and I will take any advice on board. Once the defence is sorted I will then go on to the Midfield.

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....

I do love the CM/A role, but it's not much like Coutinho.

...

I just wanted to say that in my game with LFC I played him as CM A role, 32 games 17 goals 19 assists. This role is for him

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I decided to choose the following as roles and duties for the next match -

FB(L) - WB(A), Stay Wider and Get Further Forward. (added Cross Less Often and Pass Shorter due to too many crosses being made to the lone striker and possession was lost)

FB® - WB(S), Sit Narrower and Cut Inside With Ball, these will be taken away as they did not produce the movement of the full back running past the winger on the inside. (added Cross Less Often and Pass Shorter due to too many crosses being made to the lone striker and possession was lost)

CD's - CD(D), Pass Shorter.

I watched the game on full and the LWB made runs down the wing and past the AML which is what I am after. The only thing was he played a lot of crosses towards the striker and we lost possession from them.

The RWB played more conservatively and made a few runs on the outside of the winger but mainly held back slightly and supported him by giving the winger an option for a pass.

The CD's were solid and played the ball to players close to them, ie the DM which is exactly what I am after.

In conclusion I was happy with the players and how they performed with my instructions.

Next up is the Midfield 3 (1xDM and 2xCM)

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What do you want the wing back to do when he is advanced ? There are plenty of player instructions available for a wing back that can tailor him to your needs.

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What do you want the wing back to do when he is advanced ? There are plenty of player instructions available for a wing back that can tailor him to your needs.

Which WB? I have a WB(A) on the left and WB(S) on the right.

The WBL, I am looking for him to push past the oppositions full back and look for through balls to the striker or to run at the centre of defence if the opportunity arises.

The WBR, I am looking for him to support the winger and occasionally push past him and be a runner into the box. But mainly to support the winger.

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The left, which you said crossed the ball to the striker and lost possession.

I think by default the WB (a) is more inclined to run down the wing and cross the ball, if he pushes past the full back, this isn't an ideal position for through balls, however if that is what you want. Try * Cross less often, * More risky passes.

The WB (s) is more likely to play through balls, so if you wish to cut this down, then "play less risky passes.

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The left, which you said crossed the ball to the striker and lost possession.

I think by default the WB (a) is more inclined to run down the wing and cross the ball, if he pushes past the full back, this isn't an ideal position for through balls, however if that is what you want. Try * Cross less often, * More risky passes.

The WB (s) is more likely to play through balls, so if you wish to cut this down, then "play less risky passes.

Thanks for the suggestion, I didn't think about it that way. I will try the LWB as a WB(S) with a few Player Instructions to get him slightly more forward and hopefully he will still be an attacking threat but also play through balls more and cross less meaning we keep possession more.

The RWB is doing a good job and exactly what I am wanting him to do but if he starts to play too many misplaced passes then I will look at adding the Plays Less Risky Passes.

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In the next match I would concentrate on the midfield three.

Midfield

The system that Rodgers uses at Liverpool sees 3 Centre Midfield players being played in a DM Triangle. The deepest player sits in front of the defence and receives the ball from the CD's and looks to play the ball forward either to the wide players or the two CM's ahead of him. One of the CM's is the legs of the midfield and helps the team in defence and attack, while the other is a player that plays slightly more advanced and his job is to help out the attacking play more than the defensive side.

Which Roles and Duties would you consider for these players, along with Player Instructions?

My thinking would be for the DM to be either HB(D) or DLP(D) with Pass Shorter (this would make the player stay between the CD's and receive the ball easily to be able to pass it forward to the CM's

One CM would be BBM(S) with Pass Shorter (this would get the player to keep possession)

The other CM would be CM(A), with Pass Shorter (this is so he looks for a simpler pass rather than pinging long balls to the striker)

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I decided to choose the following as roles and duties for the next match -

DM - DLP(D) with Pass Shorter

CM - BBM(S) with Pass Shorter and Close Down Less

CM - CM(A) with Pass Shorter

Watching the game on full again, I noticed the DM was in the position I wanted in defence but was slightly deeper than I wanted him in the attacking phase, I then changed him to DLP(S) and he still stayed in the defensive position but when we had possession he joined the two CM's (slightly deeper) meaning we had a good little triangle of players to offer passing options centrally.

The BBM midfielder was doing what was expected in attack, joining in slightly behind the advanced players and offering another option for a pass. In defence he was closing down players too much and left his central position meaning there was a gap for the opposition to exploit. I added Close Down Less to his Player Instructions and he held his position but not too much as to restrict his defensive duties.

The CM(A) worked exactly how I wanted and played slightly advanced of the BBM but also helping out in the defence of opposition attacks. He burst past the striker on occasions and gave another option in attack.

During this game I came on here and saw the post by Torskus77 and decided to implement his idea of having the LWB as a WB(S) as I was still getting too many crosses wasted from him. I kept Stay Wider, Get Further Forward, Cross Less Often and Pass Shorter which made him get forward but looked for a pass rather than aimlessly crossing into the box for my striker to lose out against the opponents CD's. He isn't as adventurous at getting forward now but chooses his runs more wisely which gives my defence a bit more stability.

The next part of this formation is to concentrate on the AML and AMR to get the best out of them attacking wise.

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The AML and AMR

Liverpool in my eyes play in a way that the AML sits narrower on the pitch and is the creative player in the front 3. The AMR is more of a wide player who goes around the outside of the opponents fullback and drives at the defence, but also has been seen to cut inside and run at the CD's.

Which Roles and Duties would you consider for these players, along with Player Instructions?

My interpretation of this is that the AML is either a IF or an AP, I cannot decide before seeing how they move around the pitch in a game situation.

The AMR is what I see as a W(A) as that will get him to run at the opponents full back and give them problems.

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I watched the next game in full again and this is how I set up -

AML - AP(A), Pass It Shorter, Cross Less Often, Sit Narrower (this would make the player keep possession by passing it to a closer team mate and not swing in hopeless crosses, also making him move infield allowing the WB to run past and give the opponents full back a decision to make of which player to pick up)

AMR - W(A), Mark Tighter, Fewer Risky Passes and Stay Wider (this would get him to mark the fullback when they move forward, make less wayward passes/crosses and for him to take the defenders away from the space the CM(A) would be taking up)

From watching the game I noticed that the AML was pushing too far forward and not dribbling which stopped him making an impression on the match, what I wanted him to do was sit infield slightly and in front of the oppositions defence and make some dangerous through balls or keep possession and play another player in. To do this I changed him to an AP(S) and added Dribble More to his instructions. This change made him come alive and start to come infield more a bit like the real life Liverpool with Coutinho playing there.

The AMR looked like he just couldn't get into the game and after watching his movement I realised that when we got the ball on the left he decided to run out wide on the right making it impossible for him to influence the game. This forced me to remove the Stay Wider instruction which worked straight away and instead of him moving wide when the ball was on the left, he came inside like a real life winger would. This also brought the RB into the game a bit more and linked up better than previously.

I have one more position left to have a close look at, the striker. Then I will look at tweaking the Team Instructions if needed.

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The Striker

I believe that Rodgers wants his lone striker to drop off the CD pairing of the opposition and show for the ball, when he receives it he has the option of turning and running at the defence, playing with his back to goal or turning and playing advancing midfielders in on goal.

Which Roles and Duties would you consider for these players, along with Player Instructions?

My thinking on this is that the striker is either a CF(S) or a DLF. This would allow the player to drop deep and give the midfield more options in attack.

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In the next game my striker was as follows -

STC - CF(S), no Player Instructions

The first 25 minutes didn't go as I planned as the striker was not connecting as I wanted with the midfield which left him isolated up front. This may have been because the team I was playing against played the exact same shape as me with a DM. I changed him to a DLF(S) for the rest of the first half but he dropped off and stayed deep so he offered nothing going forward for me. After half time I changed him to a DLF(A) but this pushed him further up and again I lost the link to the midfield. Around the 60th minute I changed him back to a CF(S) but added the Player Instructions of Moves Into Channels and Roam From Position.

I used these instructions to make the striker move to the wings and link up with the wide midfielders which he did pretty well after, and the Roam From Position made him come looking for the ball not just centrally but wide aswell. These shouts gave him a lot more movement and linked well with the midfield which is what I was after.

He didn't score in the game though, and only had 3 shots, all of which were off target.

I believe that this will be a work in progress through the rest of the season. I may even change it game by game due to the differing opposition and the type of player I play there. I have never had much luck with lone strikers so I am determined to make this work.

I will go through the Team Instructions in a few games as I think they need a few tweaks.

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After now playing 9 games from the start of trying to get this tactic working, I have won 7 (Arsenal, Sunderland, West Ham, Barnsley, Hull, Swansea and Burnley) and lost 2 (Aston Villa and Everton. I have scored 21 goals and conceded 9, with Daniel Sturridge scoring 7.

I have settled for the Team Instructions as follows -

- Shorter Passing (to encourage the players to look for players close to them and keep possession)

- Play Out Of Defence (as the team in real life, I would like them to start any attack from the back and to keep possession before giving the ball to more creative players)

- Run At Defence (to try and get past the oppositions player meaning we can have an advantage with player numbers)

- Higher Tempo (to keep the ball moving meaning the opposition cannot have a break and will have to concentrate on where the ball and our players are)

These instructions seem to work well and I have seen the ball being played along the back line and between the CD's and DM. The advanced players dribble more with the ball when faced with an opponent meaning we have more chances to score. The higher tempo does exactly what I wanted and we move the ball around quicker from player to player, with the midfield three there are plenty of triangles being played and the opposition cannot defend against it.

I have also gone with a Counter mentality and Fluid. By watching the game the players will get back into position when we are defending and let the opposition have the ball deep in their half but close them down when they look a threat in our half. The players also help in attack and defence more than what they did when I have used Rigid.

I still make a few changes in the game if there is a need to, as I do not believe there is an all encompassing tactic for this game like in the early versions.

I am glad I have taken the time to write this as it made me watch the games in full and take notice of what the players do when given specific roles. I used to be a player that would just choose a formation, add what I though should be right and then chose the players and pressed GO. Then when I didn't win games I was getting annoyed that nothing could be done. Thanks to this forum I have been able to change that and I hope that this thread can help a few other people.

I am going to try and have a go at the set pieces now as I do not believe I am taking full advantage of them, both defending and attacking.

If anyone has any ideas or would change anything I have written about in my game then please just post on here as I am willing to discuss my choices and also take on advice for the tactic.

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Looks like you are doing a nice job.

I don't have much experience of the HB role, not something I have really used. I think if I did I would like a DLP to link up, as I imagine the HB to stay pretty deep, but as I say I don't really know how the role plays out. Complete forward (s) is a great role, I like it a lot, it kind of gives you what a DLF Gives you, but they will make runs in behind and are more mobile than the DLF.

Not much to add, cos it looks pretty good. Not a big fan of play out of defence to be honest, seems to cost me a fair few goals with defenders dilly dallying on the ball rather than just hooking it out when needed, but if you have players good enough, sure it would be fine.

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Thanks for the reply.

With regards to the HB, I thought that role was the only one that dropped between the CD's but after choosing DLP(D) I have noticed he does the same but also pushes out slightly more to join the midfield. If I play against weaker teams I can also change him to a DLP(S) so he joins the midfield more.

The CF(S) is a role I have never used as I liked to have a role with a player doing one thing and I didn't see any player on the game as being 'complete'. Obviously I overlooked the real reasoning behind the role and it works perfect for me with the player dropping off and also making the runs behind the defence.

The work ball out of defence does make the play a little nervous at the back sometimes but the advantages outweigh the disadvantages in my mind with this team.

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If you're playing out from the back, make sure your central defenders have good composure otherwise it's an accident waiting to happen.

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Weirdly 2 of my CD's have composure of 12 and 8, but they still seem to be comfortable on the ball. I do keep an eye this in the game and they are performing well.

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If you're playing out from the back, make sure your central defenders have good composure otherwise it's an accident waiting to happen.

Generally I would say Composure is more important for attackign players rather than defenders.

But the definition of the attribute on the Guide to FM website says its how well a player performs under pressure.

Considering the OP is Liverpool he might have not faced teams who pressed his defense. And also the defenders Anticipation, Concentration and Decisions also play a part. And his defenders are strong mentally.

Ideally you would want your defenders to have high values in all these attributes but I think good Decisions and Anticipation can make up for the lack of Composure.

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I always try and get defenders with Anticipation/Composure/Decisions and it certainly helps.

Do you use Play Out Of Defence?

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This isn't like BR's Liverpool.

Attacking is a bit gung-ho for Liverpool I think. Your players will have more creative freedom, which (as I understand it) your WB will almost be like a CWB, especially with fluid. I really think that Johnson was the more attacking FB and Flanagan stayed back a lot more, but I'd have both on support roles with the LB having hold position PI.

I'd say Gerrard was much more of a DLP/D than a Half Back. Yes, he dropped between the defenders, but the rest of his duties pointed much more towards a DLP.

I'd say Advanced Playmaker/Attack and BBM/S for Coutinho and Henderson respectively. Henderson was up and down the pitch as you said and I think that CM/S is a bit stagnant. I do love the CM/A role, but it's not much like Coutinho.

The attacking roles are a bit difficult to replicate in FM and I'd say it really depends on who you want to play at the focal point. I used to use swap it about from game to game depending on form. Both wide men on attack roles and the striker always as a Complete Forward/Support.

Good luck.

Attacking's a bit gung ho???? Sorry - 100+ goals for last season - that looks pretty attacking to me.

On the CM(A) debate, I play Hendo there personally.

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Effective attacking and "attacking" mentality don't have to go hand in hand.

From what I saw of Liverpool last season (not a lot) many of the goals conceded were from individual errors rather than due to "attacking" mentality and lack of players behind the ball. I think a bigger cause of goal conceded was the "play out from the back" type of instruction.

I think a counter mentality with play out from the back to reduce the passing range of the CB's with Gerrard having longer distance passing allowed would fit how Liverpool played many games. Slow build up from the back if no counter, but when the ball gets forward direct running with the ball and short quick passing between the attackers.

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* Just a quick update

Played 25 with this tactic, won 16 , lost 6, drawn 3. Scored 45, conceded 23. Sturridge has scored 14, but hasn't played every game.

I have noticed recently we are having a lot of crosses from both fullbacks and the AMR. Also the CM(A) is getting a few crosses in. Most of crosses from the AMR are not successful, last 2 games 15/2 and 11/1 from my right winger. The AMR though, has been scoring more than I thought and so I do not really want to drop him to the MR role just to give him the instruction to cross less often.

Are there any suggestions of how to stop him crossing as much? and also how to stop the wingbacks crossing so much

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* Just a quick update

Played 25 with this tactic, won 16 , lost 6, drawn 3. Scored 45, conceded 23. Sturridge has scored 14, but hasn't played every game.

I have noticed recently we are having a lot of crosses from both fullbacks and the AMR. Also the CM(A) is getting a few crosses in. Most of crosses from the AMR are not successful, last 2 games 15/2 and 11/1 from my right winger. The AMR though, has been scoring more than I thought and so I do not really want to drop him to the MR role just to give him the instruction to cross less often.

Are there any suggestions of how to stop him crossing as much? and also how to stop the wingbacks crossing so much

Croos Less Often PI?

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I understand you may not have understood the above post correctly.

The AMR position of Winger cannot be given cross less often. The only way to give this instruction would be to pull him back to the MR position and give him the role of wide midfielder, activating the option to give him Cross Less Often.

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* Just a quick update

Played 25 with this tactic, won 16 , lost 6, drawn 3. Scored 45, conceded 23. Sturridge has scored 14, but hasn't played every game.

I have noticed recently we are having a lot of crosses from both fullbacks and the AMR. Also the CM(A) is getting a few crosses in. Most of crosses from the AMR are not successful, last 2 games 15/2 and 11/1 from my right winger. The AMR though, has been scoring more than I thought and so I do not really want to drop him to the MR role just to give him the instruction to cross less often.

Are there any suggestions of how to stop him crossing as much? and also how to stop the wingbacks crossing so much

The thing is, a winger is meant to cross the ball, that's part of his role, please believe me I'm not trying to be a jack ass here, but if you think about what a winger is, they basically run down the line and cross the ball. They seem to be dying out of the game actually, especially at a higher level in favour of the inside forward.

There are a few options here.

Firstly, the ration of crosses completed will never be that high, you can try and make your tactic so there are more options in the box for the cross, or even more options not in the box so he doesn't always cross it.

Other than this there are a few options depending on what you want him to do.

Play him as an inside forward, despite the fact he is right footed playing on the right, this is fine, and he will still go on the outside sometimes. I've had no problem at all using the same foot on the wing despite it being seeing more the norm to have an opposite footer as an inside forward. Tick crosses less often if needed.

Or if you want more of a ball player, an advanced playmaker could work too, largely depends on what you want the player to do.

Hope this is of some help.

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I want him to be a wider player who beats his man on the outside early and puts through balls into the box in front of the striker or runs on to have a shot at goal.

I have changed him to an IF(A) with the following instructions -

- Mark Tighter

- Fewer Risky Passes

- Cross Less Often

- Pass It Shorter

- Stay Wider

With these shouts I am hoping he can play as a winger but cuts in after taking his player on. We will see how it goes and I will update on here

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if you want him to play through balls, why fewer risky passes ?

Stay Wider and Cross less often would be a good starting point and see how that works out before adding to many PI's in my opinion.

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My understanding was that you were trying to create something that (to the best of FM's ability) reflected the 13-14 side... which TBH was never going to be easy considering it morphed through various formations throughout the season. However, in all of those incarnations, I honestly don't recall them ever really playing with a Winger. When Sterling played in the front 3, he tended to play on the left (as an IF in FM terms) or at the tip of the diamond formation. Bearing in mind the other 2 of the 3 were Suarez & Sturridge, I honestly still can't see the winger. When Coutinho played in the front 3, again he generally played on the left as more of a playmaker, but definitely not a winger.

On the "Attacking" point, I'm really sorry but I watched them a lot last season and they were not a cautious slow build up team as default. Their main philosophy (particularly early in games) was to win the ball high up the pitch and get it to one of their attackers as quickly as possibly (Everton, Arse). The slower, more probing approach generally came when this hadn't proven successful (Fulham away). It was their attacking mentality that eventually saw their downfall (Palace).

No doubt people will disagree, but that's my take on it for what it's worth.

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My understanding was that you were trying to create something that (to the best of FM's ability) reflected the 13-14 side... which TBH was never going to be easy considering it morphed through various formations throughout the season. However, in all of those incarnations, I honestly don't recall them ever really playing with a Winger. When Sterling played in the front 3, he tended to play on the left (as an IF in FM terms) or at the tip of the diamond formation. Bearing in mind the other 2 of the 3 were Suarez & Sturridge, I honestly still can't see the winger. When Coutinho played in the front 3, again he generally played on the left as more of a playmaker, but definitely not a winger.

On the "Attacking" point, I'm really sorry but I watched them a lot last season and they were not a cautious slow build up team as default. Their main philosophy (particularly early in games) was to win the ball high up the pitch and get it to one of their attackers as quickly as possibly (Everton, Arse). The slower, more probing approach generally came when this hadn't proven successful (Fulham away). It was their attacking mentality that eventually saw their downfall (Palace).

No doubt people will disagree, but that's my take on it for what it's worth.

I don't disagree, I went to see them a few times, not a Liverpool fan but have friends in Liverpool. Was lucky enough to go to the home game against Arsenal, and the cup game at Arsenal, both games they pressed high and quickly tried to get the ball to the attacking players. Went to a couple of other games at Anfield too, none of which did they really do anything but try and attack. Went against Villa, and Villa just destroyed them in the first half as Liverpool played a kind of 4-4-2, which never really worked and Villa's extra man in midfield nullified Liverpool's creative players + They had some pace up front which killed Liverpool. Second half they changed to a 3 at the back formation (I think it was) and they were much better, probably should have won in the end.

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Everyone is welcome to their own opinion, that is why I asked for people to add to this thread.

Alinp - how would you set up a formation for Liverpool, as you haven't mentioned anything about the right side of the attack.

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The thing with Liverpool last season is they went through a number of different formations and styles of play. I started FM14 trying to replicate this and went with three formations to use in different scenarios; an attacking narrow diamond, the 4-3-3/4-5-1 and the 3-5-2.

I dropped the latter two when I realised the diamond was proving the most successful for me but I tried to stay true to Rodgers' version of it, with Gerrard dropping deep (using a HB) and Sterling at the tip providing a goalscoring threat from deep, bursting forward with pace (as a shadow striker).

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The thing is it's very difficult to replicate Liverpool's attack, no one player actually played 1 position. It's difficult to say at any given time if Suarez or Sturridge were the central striker, because the swapped around all the time, both would run the channels , both would pop up in the box, must have been a nightmare to defend against, as it proved for most teams.

I think most of the time they used a diamond in midfield, with several players from midfield taking responsibility for giving width. Gerrard as said above played a kind of half back role, the lack of a true defensive midfielder is possibly what cost them so many goals, and probably the title.

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Everyone is welcome to their own opinion, that is why I asked for people to add to this thread.

Alinp - how would you set up a formation for Liverpool, as you haven't mentioned anything about the right side of the attack.

For me, formation is secondary to style with this (or TBH any) set up.

With regard to the "default" attacking set up for Liverpool, I aim for a very fluid, high pressing, quick style. For this I use TI's as follows -

- For the press - Hassle Opponents, Stay on Feet, Use Tighter Marking, Push Higher Up & Roam from Positions

- and with the ball - Higher Tempo, Pass into Space, Shorter Passing & Play Narrower.

My formation I tend to adjust based upon what I'm up against, but if we go with the 4-3-3/4-5-1 this thread is based on (and remembering trying to replicate actuality), I think something like GK(D), WB(S), CD(D), CD(D), WB(S); HB; CM(A), CM(S); IF(A), CF(S), IF(S) with Sit Narrower for the 2 IF's.

That's basically it - no mass PI's as I'm not a fan and I think PPM's will dictate how different players play the roles + I think the LFC style last season was about a team ethic rather than individual instruction.

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