Gap in 3 men defences (3-2-2-1-2 Van Gaal tactic.)

[isignedupfornorealreason]

So there's a lovely article on Squawka where one of the authors writes about Van Gaal's '5-3-2' and how to set it up in FM 2014. I've been using/adapting it to see how it works because, I haven't really ventured out of the basic 4-4-2/4-3-3 shapes since CM3 (where I did play a 3-5-2!)

Here's the set up:

Rigid, Standard formation, with: Play out of Defence, Shorter Passing, Higher Tempo, Play higher up, Play offside Trap.

GK: Sweeper Keeper / Defend (Distribute to defenders)

DCR: Centre back / Stopper

DC: Centre Back / Defend

DCL: Centre Back / Stopper

WBR: Wing Back/ Attack (Less risky passes, close down more)

WBL: Wing Back/ Attack (Less risky passes, close down more)

MCR: Centre Midfielder / Defend

MCL: Deep Lying Playmaker / Support (Close down more, Mark tightly)

AMC: Advanced Playmaker / Attack (Close down more, move into channels, Roam from position)

FWR: Complete Forward / Support (Move into channels)

FWL: Complete Forward / Attack (Move into channels)

Individual instructions in brackets.

So far, it works quite well, it's very different from what I'm used to seeing, the midfield trio is quite nice, the wing backs really have to work hard as a sort of attacking winger but at the same time getting back to being a fullback on the defensive side of things. There's some nice inter-play, possession is usually around 50% since the speed of play usually does leave some misplaced passes.

My issue is this;

There's always a 'gap' that appears within the three man defence. I'm curious as to what to do to fix it, but I can't quite answer 'why' its happening.

At first I thought the stoppers moved forward to quickly and left a 'hole' to exploit, but it's not that at all.

What I'm seeing happen is the middle defender sometimes charge up the field to close down and leave a gaping hole or alternatively and more common, the trio of defenders form their line and an opposition AMC/Deep lying drops deep and plays a ball between the stopper and the wing back to an advancing AMC/R/L player who can then run 'across' the defenders preventing a tackle and having an easy one on one at the goal. It's kind of weird to explain, it wouldn't be an issue if the pass was going to the corner away from the box but they're angling it into it.

I'm just wondering if this is a fault with the positioning of the defenders, a normal occurance of a three man defence or if its the width of play that is affecting the 'space' resulting in the exploit? I'd say so far 90% of the goals conceded come about this way, and the opposition aren't scoring much so it's not like its happening every five minutes but when it does happen it's an eye sore as I'm screaming for the CB to anticipate the blindingly obvious pass.

Anyway; Tactical fault? Player Fault? Just one of those things that has to exist as a weakness?

[THOG]

The two events you describe are goal events that are supposed to represent defensive errors, and there's not a whole lot you can do tactically to prevent them other than to try to minimise your opponent's possession. The DC rushing out is not an error on the pressuring centreback's part but an error on the part of the other players in the defensive line who should be shifting over to cover for him. The AMLR goal results from fullbacks not tracking a runner, though IRL, these sort of runs usually happen from deeper when the fullback is already occupied with another player. In both cases, people have argued these two events are overrepresented, but it's more a case of "defender errors are supposed to be happening but there's a lack of variety in the way they're represented and the events that are represented are annoyingly elementary."

[Luke4]

I have used this formation to turn Twente into a Euro powerhouse. I have had the best success defensively by using all three as DC ©, using quick players out wide and somebody tall in the middle to take care of GK long kicks and headers from wingers. It helps to avoid the DC's stepping up and leaving gaps (center DC will still take care of long balls), and you just have to deal with long shots and crosses, which the 3 DC's should handle most of the time. It also helps defensively to mark the FB's with that sides strikers so your wingback doesn't get doubled all game, with the added benefit of them making great diagonal runs to get back into the ST spots when you gain possession.

[Deego619]

I'm using something similar with good success.

I'd suggest moving the WBs to FBs. In my opinion it's like the problem with the AMRL/MLR, the WB roles for me simply don't offer enough defensive cover and the FBs do a good job of getting forward as it is.

Stoppers are suicidal in defence, we shared similar problems in that regard. Leaving the outer CBs to just defend and the middle to cover seemed to do the trick.

[isignedupfornorealreason]

The two events you describe are goal events that are supposed to represent defensive errors, and there's not a whole lot you can do tactically to prevent them other than to try to minimise your opponent's possession. The DC rushing out is not an error on the pressuring centreback's part but an error on the part of the other players in the defensive line who should be shifting over to cover for him. The AMLR goal results from fullbacks not tracking a runner, though IRL, these sort of runs usually happen from deeper when the fullback is already occupied with another player. In both cases, people have argued these two events are overrepresented, but it's more a case of "defender errors are supposed to be happening but there's a lack of variety in the way they're represented and the events that are represented are annoyingly elementary."

Ah, I see, thanks.

@JDeeguain - I play offside trap, so cover would muck it up a bit. I'll experiment with switching them to D with the centre to cover and see how it goes.

[davidmn27]

Any progress on this?

[isignedupfornorealreason]

I got to three seasons, it won near enough everything throughout.

The issue faded away somewhat on account of better defenders either via training or purchases. - So it's workable as presented.

[davidmn27]

Even with Stoppers, or did you change to Defend of Cover? Thanks

[mpreston85]

I would also suggest trying a defender with lower Aggression as that affects there decision making towards closing down and trying to tackle so is a better attribute for Stopper duty.

[isignedupfornorealreason]

Even with Stoppers, or did you change to Defend of Cover? Thanks

Left them as Stoppers.