Will FM15 be rid of these stupid things?

[Crazy Paving]

I'm Man Utd. We've won 2 back to back leagues (3 including Fergies last season), been in the last 2 Champions League finals and won one and we're top of the league this season and the media prediction is that we will win the league. Yet all season long whenever we do something good we get these stupid news items...

Not expected to challenge for the league. Progress being made. Come on, this surely isn't hard to sort out and it certainly breaks the realism.

[PineappleBlender]

Yes, that's always been rather stupid. Along with being considered underdogs after having won the title 3 years in a row.

I'd also like to see "we always expected you to do this" after winning something taken out the back and shot as well. I've just brought unrivalled success to the club after a decade of good decisions by me. You could at least acknowledge that winning multiple pieces of silverware in a season is impressive.

Typical FM board:

"I've just turned this club into the best in the world"

"Meh, we expected it"

"But I've had a run here that makes me one of the most successful managers of all time!"

"No, that's nothing special"

"And what about our finances? We're near a billion in the green after my plan of developing talent!"

"We expect this from all our managers. Don't think we won't replace you if you don't keep up your amazing record that no-one has ever achieved before"

[Shake Appeal]

One of the hardest thing to do program is contextual understanding. I agree SI could be doing a better job here, with more diverse and specific news items, but it's extremely difficult to have a machine be aware of the significance of what you have achieved except in pure metrical terms.

[potemkin125]

Yes, that's always been rather stupid. Along with being considered underdogs after having won the title 3 years in a row.

I'd also like to see "we always expected you to do this" after winning something taken out the back and shot as well. I've just brought unrivalled success to the club after a decade of good decisions by me. You could at least acknowledge that winning multiple pieces of silverware in a season is impressive.

Typical FM board:

"I've just turned this club into the best in the world"

"Meh, we expected it"

"But I've had a run here that makes me one of the most successful managers of all time!"

"No, that's nothing special"

"And what about our finances? We're near a billion in the green after my plan of developing talent!"

"We expect this from all our managers. Don't think we won't replace you if you don't keep up your amazing record that no-one has ever achieved before"

This. Gets my goat big time when the club you are managing who never in their 104 year history 'expected to win the league anyway'. Yeah right that's why you set my target at only qualifying for Europe and have never won it before.

[Wonky]

One of the hardest thing to do program is contextual understanding. I agree SI could be doing a better job here, with more diverse and specific news items, but it's extremely difficult to have a machine be aware of the significance of what you have achieved except in pure metrical terms.

Agreed. Difficult, but something that should be improved.

[skipping pig]

In the grand scheme of things, it's really not that difficult to fix.

[speedy316]

This. Gets my goat big time when the club you are managing who never in their 104 year history 'expected to win the league anyway'. Yeah right that's why you set my target at only qualifying for Europe and have never won it before.

I see this, playing with Norwich i have won the Capital One cup 3 times in a row and the game still sees me as an underdog side saying things when i win an early game like "keeping the dream alive!" i have won it 3 times! in a row! Surely i should be considered one of the odds on favourites by now!

[speedy316]

I am sure in previous FM's this hasnt been an issue, FM12 after taking Norwich to every cup and trophy possible. Norwich were considered one of the league giants and the media reflected that status. Surely something like this is linked to club reputation, higher reputation clubs surely should be viewed in the media as odds on favourties to either win or challenge for a title or cup.

[Smurf]

I'm Man Utd.

Not expected to challenge for the league. Progress being made. Come on, this surely isn't hard to sort out and it certainly breaks the realism.

Seems acurate

[scott MUFC]

I had oddities like not being Favourates in a Champions league game as Man Utd.... away to Leverkusen :/

[OFS]

Must admit as difficult as it is i'm surprised things are that bad after winning the league 3 years in a row. Perhaps SI could look at using/tweaking the reputation score as a trigger for the types of news items you receive.

[OFS]

Thinking about it there are any number of variables SI could use to gauge things and dictate how the game addresses you. Everything's there in the database for it to be ultra realistic. Reputation, past league and cup positions, previous meetings and expected league position are all things we look at in real life.

[Wonky]

In the grand scheme of things, it's really not that difficult to fix.

Individually they're not difficult to fix, but I think the sheer number of possibilities make it a bit of a minefield. You do make a good point, though.

[forameuss]

In the grand scheme of things, it's really not that difficult to fix.

And you know this how?

[Xavessi]

There has been very little effort to improve/fix these types of media comments which only exist because they kept padding out the game with new features.

It is immersion breaking and should be removed until they are serious about implementing it properly.

[El Presidente]

I was told the game was perfect.

Although I have the Premier League's top scorer who has 45 goals this season at the age of 23 with a value of...

£1.4m :o

[forameuss]

There has been very little effort to improve/fix these types of media comments which only exist because they kept padding out the game with new features.

It is immersion breaking and should be removed until they are serious about implementing it properly.

...oooooor they rank everything they have to do in terms of priority, you know, like every development house will, and then work through them that way. Media items are always going to be fairly low priority. New features will always filter in (because if there were none, then they would be attacked from all sides) but will only take precedence over bugs that can wait. Like these.

But yeah, it's totally because of a lack of effort.

[Xavessi]

...oooooor they rank everything they have to do in terms of priority, you know, like every development house will, and then work through them that way. Media items are always going to be fairly low priority. New features will always filter in (because if there were none, then they would be attacked from all sides) but will only take precedence over bugs that can wait. Like these.

But yeah, it's totally because of a lack of effort.

You emphasised my point when you mentioned priority. How exactly is having a poorly implemented feature which breaks immersion a good thing?

Nobody would miss it if was removed.

Also, I think you are wrong about SI being attacked if they neglected to add new features. The vast majority of fm fans would much rather have a new version which concentrated on 100% bug fixes and match engine improvements.

[Kojak123]

The vast majority of fm fans would much rather have a new version which concentrated on 100% bug fixes and match engine improvements.

Just out of curiosity: How do you know what the "vast majority of fm fans" would much rather have? Did you conduct a research or are you just extrapolating your own opinion?

I think "the vast majority of fm fans" think the game is something between good and great and don't care about a strange news item or two...

[isignedupfornorealreason]

Just out of curiosity: How do you know what the "vast majority of fm fans" would much rather have? Did you conduct a research or are you just extrapolating your own opinion?

I think "the vast majority of fm fans" think the game is something between good and great and don't care about a strange news item or two...

You'd be surprised then, to be wrong.

Media and news has been criticised around every single forum for being lackadaisal and rubbish for years now. It's why they carped on about the fancy 'overhaul' which, wasn't really much of one in the first place. They'd be better served either removing it or doing it properly, pretty much as he said.

[forameuss]

You emphasised my point when you mentioned priority. How exactly is having a poorly implemented feature which breaks immersion a good thing?

Nobody would miss it if was removed.

Also, I think you are wrong about SI being attacked if they neglected to add new features. The vast majority of fm fans would much rather have a new version which concentrated on 100% bug fixes and match engine improvements.

So they release FM15, and there are zero new features, just an updated database and some bug fixes, most of which the vast majority (coining your phrase) won't even notice. They would be rightly pilloried for that, just like a lot of developers have, for releasing what amounts to a data update for £30.

And your first question would have to be directed at SI. They obviously don't see this as a priority. Neither do I to be honest.

[Kojak123]

Media and news has been criticised around every single forum for being lackadaisal and rubbish for years now. It's why they carped on about the fancy 'overhaul' which, wasn't really much of one in the first place. They'd be better served either removing it or doing it properly, pretty much as he said.

I've not said that media and news were working perfectly (or even good). I just think that most fm players do not register in a forum and either don't care about some weird media items or don't care enough to register and complain.

I also think that many people download the demo to see whether there are some funny or useful new features. If there are they buy the game, if there aren't they wont. Therefore si will continue to introduce new features and improve on the existing ones... And I agree with this.

[allyc31]

...oooooor they rank everything they have to do in terms of priority, you know, like every development house will, and then work through them that way. Media items are always going to be fairly low priority. New features will always filter in (because if there were none, then they would be attacked from all sides) but will only take precedence over bugs that can wait. Like these.

But yeah, it's totally because of a lack of effort.

Yes but implementation of a poor feature, then not improving on said feature for a few years should not be ignored.

I understand that other features can/will take priority but something as integral to game immersion should not have been left in the state it's in for this long imo.

Every time I start a new game i tell myself I'm going to go to every press conference, deal with every player dispute, play mind games with other managers etc

I normally last to around September.

Also, i (absolutely not implying i speak for the majority of users here) would be happy with a updated db and ME improvements year....if it was sold at a reduced price.

Say, £20 instead of £30

[cynet]

You forget that SI have only ten months if that to start working on the next release.

To implement all those changes is radically impossible with the time frame they have set their self's.

This is why in my opinion FM14 is not a finished product because it still has bugs and SI no longer supports it for which for me is criminal.

As with regards to the news feed it should be removed as SI haven't got the time to be concerned with such little matters.

[MRW]

One of the hardest thing to do program is contextual understanding. I agree SI could be doing a better job here, with more diverse and specific news items, but it's extremely difficult to have a machine be aware of the significance of what you have achieved except in pure metrical terms.

Not really contextual understanding though is it?

Won league last two seasons - leading league again - gets news item not expected to challenged...

I could program the correct response using Excel and VBA - same with other examples...

The real reason is someones got their IF statement messed up...

[forameuss]

Yes but implementation of a poor feature, then not improving on said feature for a few years should not be ignored.

Never once said it was ignored. I said it was prioritised. There were more important things than it. Why is that so hard to understand?

Also, i (absolutely not implying i speak for the majority of users here) would be happy with a updated db and ME improvements year....if it was sold at a reduced price.

Say, £20 instead of £30

That's fair enough, but plenty of people wouldn't share that view. Probably most importantly Sega. Profit per copy down by a third, and then down considerably since most people will probably just keep FM14 and put a data update over it. It would be business suicide.

[allyc31]

Never once said it was ignored. I said it was prioritized. There were more important things than it. Why is that so hard to understand?

I didn't say SI where ignoring it. I said that implementation of a poor feature that since hasn't been address shouldn't be ignored.

[forameuss]

I didn't say SI where ignoring it. I said that implementation of a poor feature that since hasn't been address shouldn't be ignored.

I fail to see the difference in this context. We're talking about a feature that some say is poor, and you're saying poor features shouldn't be ignored...

[allyc31]

I'm saying that failure to improve a feature shouldn't be ignored.

The difference being that, while SI haven't be purposely not fixing x due to y being a priority, the poor quality of x shouldn't be ignored by the user base.

[Nik_Dut]

The media in FM have taken oil money from the Arabs and Russians LOL

[Kenco]

Just out of curiosity: How do you know what the "vast majority of fm fans" would much rather have? Did you conduct a research or are you just extrapolating your own opinion?

I think "the vast majority of fm fans" think the game is something between good and great and don't care about a strange news item or two...

I've not said that media and news were working perfectly (or even good). I just think that most fm players do not register in a forum and either don't care about some weird media items or don't care enough to register and complain.

I also think that many people download the demo to see whether there are some funny or useful new features. If there are they buy the game, if there aren't they wont. Therefore si will continue to introduce new features and improve on the existing ones... And I agree with this.

So it's ok for you to speculate what the vast majority of users want but not others?

[Kojak123]

So it's ok for you to speculate what the vast majority of users want but not others?

I just wanted to show that if you speculate on what "the vast majority" wants you can easily come to different conclusions. It was intended to be a bit of a joke. Obviously not a good one... And I do not think that the forums provide a suitable base for speculation on what a majority thinks.

I do not speak for anybody except myself as I don't know what other people want or think.

[upthetoon]

One of the hardest thing to do program is contextual understanding. I agree SI could be doing a better job here, with more diverse and specific news items, but it's extremely difficult to have a machine be aware of the significance of what you have achieved except in pure metrical terms.

please have a look at other games which are just as complicated. and how they have achieved things like 'contextual understanding'.

[forameuss]

please have a look at other games which are just as complicated. and how they have achieved things like 'contextual understanding'.

Go on then, don't be such a tease and give us such examples of games which are comparable to FM in any sense, let alone in terms of how "complicated" they are.

[Kenco]

I just wanted to show that if you speculate on what "the vast majority" wants you can easily come to different conclusions. It was intended to be a bit of a joke. Obviously not a good one... And I do not think that the forums provide a suitable base for speculation on what a majority thinks.

I do not speak for anybody except myself as I don't know what other people want or think.

Admittedly the forum is only a small percentage of total FM users but surely it's still a good way of getting a general idea for what the majority of users think? How else do you think opinion polls are gathered?

[Kojak123]

Admittedly the forum is only a small percentage of total FM users but surely it's still a good way of getting a general idea for what the majority of users think? How else do you think opinion polls are gathered?

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I think (still only my opinion) that the forum users are the most dedicated of all players. Therefore they tend to draw relatively small topics out of poportion if only because they so desperately want to improve the game.

But in terms of sales I still don't think that some improved news items would make a (economical) difference.

If I was sales director at SI, I would want some new shiny features to put in the adverts every year. Imagine an advert like "The same game as last year but with less bugs!" if the alternative would be "Now even better influence: Scream at your players from the dugout!"

If I was head of development I would make three teams: one bigger for the development of new features, one smaller to eradicate the bugs from earlier versions and the last one to find the right balance of all features. (And of course the game would be bugfree and more realistic than life itself if I was the HoD )

[Kenco]

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I think (still only my opinion) that the forum users are the most dedicated of all players. Therefore they tend to draw relatively small topics out of poportion if only because they so desperately want to improve the game.

But in terms of sales I still don't think that some improved news items would make a (economical) difference.

If I was sales director at SI, I would want some new shiny features to put in the adverts every year. Imagine an advert like "The same game as last year but with less bugs!" if the alternative would be "Now even better influence: Scream at your players from the dugout!"

If I was head of development I would make three teams: one bigger for the development of new features, one smaller to eradicate the bugs from earlier versions and the last one to find the right balance of all features. (And of course the game would be bugfree and more realistic than life itself if I was the HoD )

Of course that's what Sales Directors want but I'm not one of them, I'm just an average user who buys the game every year and I want to see improvements to the game rather than shiny new features. I bet if you asked 100 FMers if they would prefer random, shiny new features or improvements to current features that desperately need fixing that most will choose the latter. And that's not just the forum, that is for any FMer.

[themadsheep2001]

Not sure why we are debating what other people might want, there is a wishlist in which people post what they want.

[Kojak123]

Of course that's what Sales Directors want but I'm not one of them, I'm just an average user who buys the game every year and I want to see improvements to the game rather than shiny new features. I bet if you asked 100 FMers if they would prefer random, shiny new features or improvements to current features that desperately need fixing that most will choose the latter. And that's not just the forum, that is for any FMer.

I see your point, even if I disagree. I counter your bet by saying that if asked 100 FMers (and not just those in the forums as I don't think they are representative) if the game has issues that desperately need fixing due to being gamebreaking most would say "No. There are some things that could improve but nothing gamebreaking."

Now lets me make one thing clear: I absolutly agree that there are many current features that need improvement. But before I start mentioning news items there are many other topics coming up first: transfers (in & out; fees; reluctance to sell despite ridiculous offers), loans (nobody wanting a player despite no fee/salary), scouting (one report and all is known, regional souting is not really working, national souting is horrible), user interface (too many to list up), backroom advice (on training, team selection, contract renewals, etc.), match rescheduling (first 3 matches in 5 days, then 2 matches in 8 days), finances (that's just a huge black box atm), tactics, extremly boring press conferences, meaningless team meetings at the beginning and end of each season, and others. And then very close to the end of the list the news items pop up.

And let's not forget: SI needs to make a profit. As long as they think that they will sell more copies/have a better ROI with new features than with bug fixing they will focus on new features. As soon as they think that they will sell more copies/have a better ROI with bug fixing than with new features they will change their focus.

[forameuss]

Of course that's what Sales Directors want but I'm not one of them, I'm just an average user who buys the game every year and I want to see improvements to the game rather than shiny new features. I bet if you asked 100 FMers if they would prefer random, shiny new features or improvements to current features that desperately need fixing that most will choose the latter. And that's not just the forum, that is for any FMer.

That would be an incredibly limiting question to ask though - there's a lot of grey area between the two, and it's by no means a binary choice.

[Kenco]

I was only working with what I was given.

[Xinxin]

Admittedly the forum is only a small percentage of total FM users but surely it's still a good way of getting a general idea for what the majority of users think? How else do you think opinion polls are gathered?

No it isn't. Polls are generated by selecting a representative selection, and we here in the forum certainly do not constitute a representative sample. We have all opted to register here and by default that, as a group, disqualifies us a a representative sample. At best we can, from this forum, say what the forum users think/feel/mean about the game, but without further research we cant even say what separates us from the non-forum players, be it more hard-core, more interested, older/younger, geography, demography etc

Still, the concerns raised are valid and the discourse is interesting.

[Kojak123]

Not sure why we are debating what other people might want, there is a wishlist in which people post what they want.

Because I don't even remember what I have written in there and certainly don't know what in those 40+ pages was written and what wasn't...