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England - Euro 2016 Thread

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Spurs need Champions League football to keep this guy though surely?

he's gonna be hot property around europe at this continued level

No he won't he has played half a season and done well i really doubt the elite clubs will knock the door down for someone who is unproven and not had even two whole seasons playing yet.

If this time next year he is just as good then people will want him i am pretty sure even bale being considered a don had three years there.

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how can people claim he is unproven ffs?

he's scoring goals for fun at the highest level, people loved messi after 1 season, but then again he had an exotic name didn't he

and no i'm not claiming he is the new messi , but i bet nobody back then was saying, purple patch or over-rated etc

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No he won't he has played half a season and done well i really doubt the elite clubs will knock the door down for someone who is unproven and not had even two whole seasons playing yet.

If this time next year he is just as good then people will want him i am pretty sure even bale being considered a don had three years there.

Would 15/16 goals next season count as ''just as good'' or will there be people who expect Kane to score 25 year upon year?

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and no i'm not claiming he is the new messi , but i bet nobody back then was saying, purple patch or over-rated etc

You say you are not saying he is the new Messi but then you directly say that with Messi no one was saying a purple patch.

There is a big difference.

If Kane can go next season and bang in lots of goals he may very well be on the move, maybe to another English club.

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Messi had been touted as a phenomenon for about 5/6 years by the time he made his debut, whereas Kane played his way through the youth setup with minimal fanfare - there was an expectation that he would be good, but not as good as he has been. Messi was dropped into the first team at 17, too, with much anticipation, whereas Kane has been out on loan at a few clubs, and without garnering anything like the reputation he is now. There is no comparison between the two in terms of their preparation for first team football.

I think it's that element which causes people to think this is just a purple patch; the slightly un-anticipated nature of his rise to SUCH prominence. He seems to have all the qualities to keep it going, though.

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It goes for the likes of Falcao at Man Utd, the guy scored goals for a living at other teams because he was a box player, I have seen him out on the left wing at Man Utd so it is silly to say this player done better in this league with this team, it always goes in circles.

I do think that Michu was an attacking midfielder at Celta though. :p

Edit-

Maybe tms is right, I do know when I seen him he was playing as attacking midfielder at Celta.

he was, but his role was a lot more defensive and disciplined, practically a CM in execution many times.

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The front three were all good as was Carrick England's biggest issue has been Delph and Henderson neither have been poor but we could do with a more technically gifted player happier in the final third.

Thought the England formation was a good one, probably the right one. But this ^^

That midfield three is awful and won't get past the QF of a tournament, barring a favourable draw.

Also have the issue of Hodgson refusing to play a team that works, and instead trying to fit all his forwards in one team.

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It is immensely pleasurable to see people get annoyed at the continuing success of harry Kane.

Not talking specifically about this thread. Just observations in general. Arsenal and Liverpool fans seem to hate it which is great

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I missed the game tonight. What formation did we play? Diamond again with Sterling at the tip?
4-3-3. Sterling right, Welbeck left

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Thought the England formation was a good one, probably the right one. But this ^^

That midfield three is awful and won't get past the QF of a tournament, barring a favourable draw.

Also have the issue of Hodgson refusing to play a team that works, and instead trying to fit all his forwards in one team.

I dont think its awful, I think youd also have Wilshere in there instead of Delph

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In the context of the upper end of international football, it's pretty bad. Not a midfield that will take England far in tournaments.

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Question is will Carrick be fit and healthy come the next big tournament? He's old even for a central midfielder. What's sad is he's still only in and around the team when in the 9 years he's been at united his form has demanded his inclusion for 6 of them. Not only because he's a very talented player but because he's the only type of his kind in the country and because it's what we miss horribly.

Would be typical of England just to realise it as he goes into terminal decline.

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Thought the England formation was a good one, probably the right one. But this ^^

That midfield three is awful and won't get past the QF of a tournament, barring a favourable draw.

Also have the issue of Hodgson refusing to play a team that works, and instead trying to fit all his forwards in one team.

Yeah agree with all of this.

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to be fair it's only really one of us. rest of us have been complimentary of kane. i think he's utterly fantastic.

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This thread is a car crash thanks to the Scotts /o\
this might be the weakest post of all time. Can't even be bothered spelling the name of a people correctly.

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I dont think its awful, I think youd also have Wilshere in there instead of Delph

That really isn't an improvement. Plus, Wilshere is made from glass.

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Question is will Carrick be fit and healthy come the next big tournament? He's old even for a central midfielder. What's sad is he's still only in and around the team when in the 9 years he's been at united his form has demanded his inclusion for 6 of them. Not only because he's a very talented player but because he's the only type of his kind in the country and because it's what we miss horribly.

Would be typical of England just to realise it as he goes into terminal decline.

Wilshere is obviously the first choice and between him and Carrick they should be able to manage for now. We just need to look for the Carrick replacement because Wilshire will spend most of his time in the treatment room

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We need a summer break and to get rid of the league cup. Maybe even take the number of teams in the league down to 18. Until then it doesn't matter what squad we choose when it comes to a summer tournament.

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Was at the game last night and thought the team played very well, chuffed for Kane to get a goal so early into his debut.

Also thought Delph actually had a decent game despite my dad throughout moaning about how he (as well as Phil Jones) don't deserve to be near the team.

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Was at the game last night and thought the team played very well, chuffed for Kane to get a goal so early into his debut.

Also thought Delph actually had a decent game despite my dad throughout moaning about how he (as well as Phil Jones) don't deserve to be near the team.

Delph is the kinda of guy who can keep up if we increased the quality in our midfield. He would not be the one increasing it though.

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Wilshere is obviously the first choice and between him and Carrick they should be able to manage for now. We just need to look for the Carrick replacement because Wilshire will spend most of his time in the treatment room

Wilshere shouldn't be first choice it should be Carrick. Wilshere should probably take Delph's place as it will make better use of his best quality (dribbling). As a holding midfield player he leaves a fair bit to be desired.

Delph is the kinda of guy who can keep up if we increased the quality in our midfield. He would not be the one increasing it though.

Yeah the problem with Delph wasn't like Henderson that he isn't particularly comfortable in tight spaces it was more he doesn't really know how to be effective within them and that is why he wasn't as effective as he might have been. The issue is slightly moot though as when it matters we are unlikely to be playing in such tight spaces and are more likely to be countering.

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Wilshere shouldn't be first choice it should be Carrick. Wilshere should probably take Delph's place as it will make better use of his best quality (dribbling). As a holding midfield player he leaves a fair bit to be desired.

I think he needs to learn how to dribble properly before you call it his best quality.

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I think he needs to learn how to dribble properly before you call it his best quality.

Tell me you are joking? :D

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England seemed to over elaborate a lot, did they have a single shot from over 16 yards?

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Yeah they were trying to walk it in most of the time, Welbeck especially (perhaps he's been learning since his transfer?), but Lithuania were basically letting them so was a good exercise in creating attacks.

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Nice to see Kane get on the score sheet for you. I hope that everybody involved with him both at club & international levels do the right things to keep up his sustained improvements.

He absolutely has to go to the use tournament in the summer.

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Tell me you are joking? :D

He can't dribble properly, hence why he keeps getting ankle injuries - the ball is often too far infront of him and he has to go into challenges to try and keep it.

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He can't dribble properly, hence why he keeps getting ankle injuries - the ball is often too far infront of him and he has to go into challenges to try and keep it.

Yeah that isn't even close to accurate. Wilshere gets the ankle injuries not because of the challenges he has to make but because 1) he gets kicked a lot because of the way he plays 2) he is very one footed so his left foot is an easy target 3) he makes terrible decisions as to when to dribble and when to release the ball which again makes him an easier target. In fact I don't think any of his ankle injuries have come from the way you have suggested. What makes Wilshere such a great talent is that dribbling how he can beat the press and glide through midfield.

The reasons why he isn't a great player are multifarious and not really relevant but the fundamental one is decision making.

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Merely telling me it's not accurate, (it is, pay more attention in future to how far the ball is away from him at times), isn't going to make me miraculously see that he dribbles properly. He doesn't, (I'll make a concession and say atleast not for the area of the field he plays in), and I've seen him countless times get hurt having to launch into tackles in an attempt to keep the ball.

If dribbling really is his best attribute, then it says an awful lot about the rest of his game.

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To back up tomtuck,

Came from not so good dribbling where he's not in fully control of the ball and has to stretch at the end resulting in the injury.

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Yeah it isn't accurate. Find me an instance where that has caused him an injury? This idea he doesn't dribble properly doesn't add up. If we accept dribbling is the ability to carry the ball and beat people he does that very well particularly for a CM. What you're highlighting is that it has caused him injuries which is true but that isn't a result of his dribbling that is a result of him making poor decisions. His last two injuries are good examples of this 1) Agger tackle where Wilshere dives in to win the ball after Agger's bad touch 2) McNair where Wilshere carries the ball and releases the pass too late. Correction having seen that one again it was a too long touch but that is one injury which in turn doesn't get away from the overall point which is Wilshere is good at dribbling bad at decision making.

Before his long spell out Wilshere didn't really suffer from as many impact injuries nor was he kicked as much because his decision making was that bit quicker which allowed him to play his high risk game and not get hurt as much. Now he frequently runs with it going nowhere and into crowds this isn't his dribbling though this is him making bad decisions

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Yeah, sorry, once again merely saying "it isn't accurate" and then giving a load of whaffle about decision making, (how about the decision not to learn how to dribble with the ball closer to him), isn't going to change my considered opinion.

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Yeah, sorry, once again merely saying "it isn't accurate" and then giving a load of whaffle about decision making, (how about the decision not to learn how to dribble with the ball closer to him), isn't going to change my considered opinion.

I see you still remain completely incapable of formulating an argument. You just deride whatever is said without really dealing with it as if that really provides anything.

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Would 15/16 goals next season count as ''just as good'' or will there be people who expect Kane to score 25 year upon year?

For me if he gets 16-18 goals next year in the league then yes you can say he is good but not world class, to be world class and real madrid or barcelona wanting to buy you as a striker you need alot of goals each year.

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I see you still remain completely incapable of formulating an argument. You just deride whatever is said without really dealing with it as if that really provides anything.

I formulated an argument straight away - he dribbles with the ball too far away from his body for dribbling to be considered his best attribute.

Made that argument straight away, and also said you wouldn't change my considerd opinion, thanks. :)

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yeah worst EPL ever, players that have done it in the LA Liga have struggled this season

Di Maria has shown how poor it is compared to Spain, Falcao has proven how poor and easy it is to score

Ozil was a magician in LA liga, he's been very good, the list goes on

i guarantee it will be hard for Kane to score in England than it would be against Sociedad and Elche in Spain

Very well made argument, good stuff.

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Does any other nations get the same amount of withdrawls as England seem to get? Think from the 'original' squad, we've must have had 6-8 withdrawls.

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People having a go at Rhino and daylight re: Kane, but englandmanager's had an absolute mare on the Kane debate ffs :D The highlighted nonsense above is just amazing.

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Isn't Wilshere's dribbling style to run straight at someone, fall on the ground and appeal for a free kick?

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tomtuck01 is half-right about Wilshere's dribbling style being an issue. It's absolutely undeniable that it's a major cause of his injury problems, watch any game he's involved in and you'll see him on the deck a number of times having been chopped by a player who has thought the ball was close enough to win. However I don't think it's necessarily an 'error' as such - he puts the ball far ahead of him which invites tackles, but this allows him to skip past challenges a lot of the time, and wins free kicks a lot of the time. The ability to take people on in central areas is an important and relatively rare skill - a lot of Eriksen's free kicks this season have come from Mason driving through the middle in a similar way to Wilshere.

At this point it would probably be worth Wilshere adapting his game to avoid those kind of runs because he's swiftly becoming a liability to Arsenal, yet another big earner who's only available half the season. But it's not simply a case of him being fundamentally bad at dribbling, it is a strength as well as a weakness.

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For me if he gets 16-18 goals next year in the league then yes you can say he is good but not world class, to be world class and real madrid or barcelona wanting to buy you as a striker you need alot of goals each year.

Suarez scored 31, 23 and 11 respectively.

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Welbeck, Baines, Milner are out. Bertrand called up. Sterling going back to Liverpool for injection in foot

From initial squad annoucement to now how many pull outs does this make it?

I wonder if any other nation in Europe had this amount of pull outs

England 5 wins out 5, 15 scored 1 conceded.

That makes very good reading :)

True and you can 'only beat what's in front of you' and all that but think Slovenia away will be key in June (?) with everyone pulling out the squad

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We need a summer break and to get rid of the league cup. Maybe even take the number of teams in the league down to 18. Until then it doesn't matter what squad we choose when it comes to a summer tournament.

We have a summer break, it's called summer! I assume you mean winter break and if it means an actual break then great but if it means the big clubs jetting around the world to play prestigious friendlies for lots of money then no

Why are we getting rid of the League Cup? Cause it aids the top 6 clubs? How does this help the English national team? How about not having tours after the season ends now as well as before the new season in far flunf corners of the globe. Have some rest then if they really care about players, which they don't. It's about money

18 team league would be ok but no way half the Premier League is voting that one in as half of them are under threat for relegation at some point in the next 5 years to at least be in a dogfight .. no way they fancy removing the weakest 3

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Scotland has had a summer break every year since 1998. :cool:

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