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LB_StorM

Is it good to listen to the assistant coach's in-game suggestions?

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Brand new player here. As such, I'm rather lacking in the tactical knowledge department. I'm just wondering if I should obey him and make the changes he wants when he tells me to add 'Retain Possession' or 'Pump Ball Into Box' (yes this does happen in-game; pretty funny seeing how they're conflicting instructions), or close down/mark tighter a particular opponent. Should I listen to him, or just stick to my guns with the tactics/instructions I made at the start of the match?

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Short answer: No.

Long answer: Turn them off and pretend they don't exist. They are terrible.

I disagree. If the assman is somebody with good tactical knowledge (eg Batista Dos Santos) then what he has to say should be taken on board. But not exclusively. You should watch matches on extended at least so what you should be doing in match should be a reaction to what YOU see coupled with the assman's second opinion. So yes hear what he has to say but use your eyes and dont forget that no matter how good he is he's still AI.

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If the assman is somebody with good tactical knowledge (eg Batista Dos Santos) then what he has to say should be taken on board. But not exclusively. You should watch matches on extended at least so what you should be doing in match should be a reaction to what YOU see coupled with the assman's second opinion. So yes hear what he has to say but use your eyes and dont forget that no matter how good he is he's still AI.

I agree with this part of the quote (though to be fair, I always ignore my Assistant!)

It must be a really hard thing for SI to code, because it's only based on Match Stats.

If you set up in such a way that intends to concede possession but attack on the break, you'll constantly get feedback about your lack of possession which is redundant given the way you intend to play. I can't see a point where the game will ever know how you want to play, so a lot of the feedback can only ever be generic,

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If you're not watching the match on full he can point out some things (who's having a bad game, what length of passes you're connecting/not connecting with, who showed complacency during warm-ups, if someone's morale issues are affecting their game, etc.). Again, nothing you can't find out for yourself from the performance tab (except the complacency/morale stuff), but it's nice to get tipped off about it before you check for yourself.

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He's mostly being misleading and will destroy your system. Best only listen to him only on opposition instructions, if you want to grant him that part of responsibility at all.

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In my experience, the assistant does quite decently at bringing your attention to situations that you might want to consider and possibly address. He does rather abysmally at suggesting solutions.

As to the first part, this is only speculation on my part and I could be spectacularly wrong. But he seems to analyze conditions and how favorable they are as much or more so than what's actually happened on the pitch. So for example he might raise a concern about your lack of possession even though it's been about even the last few minutes, because the tactical setups are such that your opponent is generally favored to keep the ball. Or he might warn about a player who keeps finding space and needs to be marked even though that player hasn't actually gotten the ball in space yet because it's early in the game.

Or maybe I'm wrong about that part, but that's just what I've seen. What I can say with more confidence is that if the assistant's solutions are right it's probably only by luck. Consider the possession problem again; he'll always suggest you retain possession, and activate that shout if you click the button. Well, there's a lot of reasons you might be struggling to keep the ball. Maybe you are playing at a low tempo with a team that lacks strength and composure against a pressing team of strong tacklers. In that case "Retain" won't help because your tempo is too low and your players will lose the ball if they don't start moving it faster. Maybe you are playing at too high a tempo with players that aren't mentally or technically strong enough to move the ball so quickly. Or maybe they are strong enough but the weather is bad, or the pitch is bad. Or maybe you have a playmaker who serves are your main outlet and he's having a bad day at the office. Retain will lower tempo and shorten passing, but either or both of these things can potentially make the possession problem worse. Maybe, as RTHerringbone points out, you are away to a team that simply has a very patient approach but lacks a cutting edge, whereas you have fast attackers and creative, technical midfielders who can set them up for quick strikes. Lack of possession might not be a problem at all in that situation because you can draw your opponent out before hitting him on the counter. Or maybe you are standing off your opponent too much and if you press them harder they'll cave and give up the ball. There's really no way to know without watching or at least analyzing.

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No, the advice given has no real context, so it should be ignored.

As an example, if you have low possession stats, your assman will go on about how you need to tell your players to pass shorter. But what if you're purposefully soaking up pressure and looking to hit the opposition on the break? What if you're opposition is pressing heavily and you have technically poor players? The assman feature doesn't account for any of this, and the advice given is far too specific and authoritative for what is basically just a way of relaying short term match stat updates.

EDIT: What Trepanated and RTH said.

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Click the speech bubble and bring up the list of his comments, at the bottom of all the comments is a match feed settings button, then just untick whatever advice you don't want.

I got fed up of my assistant when my team would dominate a game and be camped in the opposition's half constantly. He would pop up and say to watch a certain player who is a threat and I should think about closing him down - this player hadn't touched the ball for twenty minutes. This made even less sense when my team was four or five goals ahead.

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I agree with this part of the quote (though to be fair, I always ignore my Assistant!)

It must be a really hard thing for SI to code, because it's only based on Match Stats.

If you set up in such a way that intends to concede possession but attack on the break, you'll constantly get feedback about your lack of possession which is redundant given the way you intend to play. I can't see a point where the game will ever know how you want to play, so a lot of the feedback can only ever be generic,

I think in FM14 it is shockingly bad and retrograde from previous versions.

In earlier versions of FM, the AM would provide useful information e.g.

- we are misplacing way too many long passes

- we are misplacing way too many easy passes

... and so on. These were specific things, backed up by data, that you could then act on. I remember the poster "Iam / lam" did a great thread on interpreting AM advice a few years back.

In FM 14, we get... forgive me if I don't recall the exact words but...

- we are struggling to keep hold of the ball

- we need to retain possession

Then, the advice is always to use the shout "retain possession". Often the AM advises "shorter passing" - even if you're already on short passing!

Very often this is just plain wrong, because what's happening is that the oppostion are pressing your team and what you actually need to do in many situation is to be more direct, increase tempo.

I'd rather just have some useful statistical information rather than disinformation, which is what we have with the FM14 AM at present. @RTH I have no sympathy with SI - they had the coding fine and then changed it and broke it because they rushed it - like a lot of things during the last two years.

I think in FM14 the AM coding is garbage, something that SI need to fix for FM15 and, bluntly, should not have been broken in a full-price paid-for product in FM14.

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It is rubbish and completely meaningless especially when 4 seasons into a short passing tactic he tells me that players who have been there all four seasons are more used to playing more direct, lol. Totally ludicrous imo.

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My favourite is when you're playing the highest line possible, hassle opponents and tight marking selected, opposition instructions set to always close down on every player, and he pipes up with "You need to close down X as otherwise they are going to punish us"....well i would if i could.

I think the Assistant could be a really useful addition to the game but needs a lot of work. I think he currently provides observations but no real valid suggestions. We all know that the AI is very good now at reacting to our tactics and adjusting accordingly. Why can't the assistant use the same logic and provide the human player with the same observations and suggestions?

I'd like to see rather than the generic "We have plenty of possession but are struggling to get shots on goal" with "We have plenty of possession but are struggling to get shots on goal. The opposition are really packing the middle of the park so maybe try getting the ball wider to stretch the opposition up more and open up space."

Now the accuracy of the advise could depend on the attributes of the Ass man but it would certainly help new players to better understand what was going wrong with their tactics.

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"We're really good in the air and winning lots of headers so we should put in more crosses"

Umm....mate....yeah, we're winning lots of headers in our own box beacuse I'm playing with three tall centre halves. My two forwards are both under 6' tall....

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@RTH I have no sympathy with SI - they had the coding fine and then changed it and broke it because they rushed it - like a lot of things during the last two years.

Possibly a bit harsh.

Remember that SI have a very small development and testing team given the scale and complexity of the game. The ME has undergone complete rework in the past couple of years. There were significant ME changes made in FM14 that people aren't even aware of which swallowed resource and meant that work on elements like this had to be deferred until a later point.

Not a great response, but as ever, they have to prioritise stuff and adding something which allows greater future precision in the ME was (rightly) deemed more pertinent than getting AssMan feedback better - if they even think it is broken. I don't know what SIs view on AssMan feedback is. It's clear that lots of users question its value, but I can't recall seeing m(any) bugs reported directly relating to it. It's not impossible that they don't even consider it to be in need of work.

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My favourite is when you're playing the highest line possible, hassle opponents and tight marking selected, opposition instructions set to always close down on every player, and he pipes up with "You need to close down X as otherwise they are going to punish us"....well i would if i could.

Did you load a different set of tactics at any point during that game? The opposition instructions reset to default (i.e. no instructions) if you do that. I noticed this because of that very same message popping up in my games whenever I changed between my presets.

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Did you load a different set of tactics at any point during that game? The opposition instructions reset to default (i.e. no instructions) if you do that. I noticed this because of that very same message popping up in my games whenever I changed between my presets.

Yeah aware of that issue but no was just the same one throughout. I think to be honest it's probably a default suggestions for when an opposition player is seeing a lot of time on the ball. I don't think it takes into account that you've already maxed out every closing down setting available.

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Possibly a bit harsh.

I think the criticism is warranted as far as the AM is concerned. It's one thing to just leave it as it was, but the advice just keeps getting worse:

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Possibly a bit harsh.

Remember that SI have a very small development and testing team given the scale and complexity of the game. The ME has undergone complete rework in the past couple of years. There were significant ME changes made in FM14 that people aren't even aware of which swallowed resource and meant that work on elements like this had to be deferred until a later point.

Not a great response, but as ever, they have to prioritise stuff and adding something which allows greater future precision in the ME was (rightly) deemed more pertinent than getting AssMan feedback better - if they even think it is broken. I don't know what SIs view on AssMan feedback is. It's clear that lots of users question its value, but I can't recall seeing m(any) bugs reported directly relating to it. It's not impossible that they don't even consider it to be in need of work.

I think my judgement is harsh but fair. I appreciate the difficulties SI face but, bottom-line, and you may this is harsh, but their difficulties aren't my (writing as a customer, nothing else) problem and SI should not be expecting their customers to empathise with their difficulties and, in the process, expect their customers to accept aspects of a product that have significant flaws. I think too many excuses are made for SI and, again, the bottom line is that people are paying £20-£30 for a product that has many flaws, some continuing from year to year and some that are very avoidable.

On the specific issue of the AM feedback - I don't think its the kind of thing that would tend to lead to bug reports because its not really a bug in that sense, its more that its near useless to the user and also misleading. Also what THOG said, its actually got worse.

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£20- £30 is around the price I pay to watch League 1 football, and that product is often substandard.

Value for money wise, I don't think you can knock FM, hours up on hours of gaming for a ridiculously small price. Yes there are flaws, and I do wish at times they would focus on getting somethings spot on before looking to add new features, but all the same. I don't think Ass Man feedback is a game killer by any means, I don't even notice it, to busy watching the game.

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I think the criticism of SI is far too harsh. It is after all, only a game and it can't get everything perfectly right. £30 for a year's worth of play comes to about 8p a day - as value for money goes, it is pretty hard to beat.

The ass man has always been known as the "ass" man for a reason - they have never been very good. I have just returned to the game after some years and amid all the additional functionality and complexity it is comforting to find that some things haven't changed - the ass man is still rubbish and it took me about two games to realise the advice during games was not worth listening to.

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Always listen to what he has to say. Your Assistant is very good at looking at the stats pages while you're watching the actual game unfold. ;) If he says that you struggle with possession, then that's good information. If you want to do something about it you can, but there's no reason to let your assistant call the actual shots.

I'd imagine that if you sign an assistant that wants to play like you do, he'd bother you a little less with his opinions about how you should keep the ball when you don't have any intention of doing so. I certainly cannot verify this though. ;)

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Always listen to what he has to say. Your Assistant is very good at looking at the stats pages while you're watching the actual game unfold. ;) If he says that you struggle with possession, then that's good information. If you want to do something about it you can, but there's no reason to let your assistant call the actual shots.

I'd imagine that if you sign an assistant that wants to play like you do, he'd bother you a little less with his opinions about how you should keep the ball when you don't have any intention of doing so. I certainly cannot verify this though. ;)

As has already been pointed out in this thread you are more than likely playing a direct game versus a short passing team who will have most of the possession. What are you saying, that you should change your tactical approach because of this on the basis of what the assman says, good luck with that?.

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The Assistant Manager reminds me of my Mrs a bit, keeps telling me the same pointless things, in the hope one day I may listen. I ignore until it goes away.

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Always listen to what he has to say. Your Assistant is very good at looking at the stats pages while you're watching the actual game unfold. ;) If he says that you struggle with possession, then that's good information. If you want to do something about it you can, but there's no reason to let your assistant call the actual shots.

I'd imagine that if you sign an assistant that wants to play like you do, he'd bother you a little less with his opinions about how you should keep the ball when you don't have any intention of doing so. I certainly cannot verify this though. ;)

He might be good at looking at the stats, but he's bloody awful at interpreting those stats. As I posted earlier in this thread, I've had my assman notice that we've been winning a lot of headers, and therefore suggest we should be trying to put in more crosses. The problem is, the players winning those headers were my centre halves dealing with long balls and opposition crosses, and my strikers are useless in the air. His suggestions would likely harm my teams chances of getting a result.

Then of course, there's the assmen that completely fail to understand how you're playing. "The opposition are dominating possesion, we need to do something about this. Lets try shorter passing". No we damn well don't need to do anything about it, I'm playing a defensively solid couterattcking formation that's winning 4-0 and the opposition haven't had a shot on target.

Or "our players are outnumbered in midfield". Yes, they have 6 players in the midfield strata compared to our 4. But we've had much higher possesion and we're winning, and the reason they've got 6 midfielders is because they're playing a backs-to-the-wall 3-3-2-1-1 in the hopes of preventing us running up a cricket score.

Bad advice is worse than no advice.

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I think the criticism is warranted as far as the AM is concerned. It's one thing to just leave it as it was, but the advice just keeps getting worse:

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wELMZtx.png

saRP5IW.png

zTeDRYE.png

Hahaha class

The Assistant Manager reminds me of my Mrs a bit, keeps telling me the same pointless things, in the hope one day I may listen. I ignore until it goes away.

And this too, kudos

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As has already been pointed out in this thread you are more than likely playing a direct game versus a short passing team who will have most of the possession. What are you saying, that you should change your tactical approach because of this on the basis of what the assman says, good luck with that?.
He might be good at looking at the stats, but he's bloody awful at interpreting those stats. As I posted earlier in this thread, I've had my assman notice that we've been winning a lot of headers, and therefore suggest we should be trying to put in more crosses. The problem is, the players winning those headers were my centre halves dealing with long balls and opposition crosses, and my strikers are useless in the air. His suggestions would likely harm my teams chances of getting a result.

Then of course, there's the assmen that completely fail to understand how you're playing. "The opposition are dominating possesion, we need to do something about this. Lets try shorter passing". No we damn well don't need to do anything about it, I'm playing a defensively solid couterattcking formation that's winning 4-0 and the opposition haven't had a shot on target.

Or "our players are outnumbered in midfield". Yes, they have 6 players in the midfield strata compared to our 4. But we've had much higher possesion and we're winning, and the reason they've got 6 midfielders is because they're playing a backs-to-the-wall 3-3-2-1-1 in the hopes of preventing us running up a cricket score.

Bad advice is worse than no advice.

He might give good advice from time to time. It might be necessary to use 1 more midfielder to stem the flow of opposition attacks, you might want to keep possession more, it may actually be your strikers that are dominant in the air, you may want to limit your long shots, you may want to alter your approach to limit the impact of a certain individual, your strikers may be too isolated, etc.

You have to decide whether or not your assistant's advice is good or not or if you want to do something else to achieve the same thing. But crucially it's not the advice that matters - it's the information about what's going on. He does point things out and I don't think that's useless. You may not have the stats page open all the time. You may not watch all the games on full match. You may not have noticed that someone is exhausted.

But I agree that I can do everything better than my assistant, so in that context he's useless. But he's there to assist me and I find that rather handy.

Tthe assistant manager has limited usefulness. I'd rather have one than not.

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He might give good advice from time to time. It might be necessary to use 1 more midfielder to stem the flow of opposition attacks, you might want to keep possession more, it may actually be your strikers that are dominant in the air, you may want to limit your long shots, you may want to alter your approach to limit the impact of a certain individual, your strikers may be too isolated, etc.

You have to decide whether or not your assistant's advice is good or not or if you want to do something else to achieve the same thing. But crucially it's not the advice that matters - it's the information about what's going on. He does point things out and I don't think that's useless. You may not have the stats page open all the time. You may not watch all the games on full match. You may not have noticed that someone is exhausted.

But I agree that I can do everything better than my assistant, so in that context he's useless. But he's there to assist me and I find that rather handy.

Tthe assistant manager has limited usefulness. I'd rather have one than not.

For an experience player, maybe. But for a new player, who doesn't understand the game [i.e. the people such suggestions are mostly aimed at], they'll likey take the assman's advice as gospel, particularly from a highly rated tactically assman. They'll make the changes he suggests. And it will quite often screw up their tactics.

Again, bad advice is worse than no advice, particularly for players learning the game.

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For an experience player, maybe. But for a new player, who doesn't understand the game [i.e. the people such suggestions are mostly aimed at], they'll likey take the assman's advice as gospel, particularly from a highly rated tactically assman. They'll make the changes he suggests. And it will quite often screw up their tactics.

Again, bad advice is worse than no advice, particularly for players learning the game.

Absolutely spot on.

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I play without width in a 4-1-2-2-1 formation where the last '2' are 2 AMC's rather than AM R/L. Last night I was experimenting with having these 2 AMC's specifically mark the opposition full backs, so I set their individual instructions to this. During every game my assistant has said:-

'Player X keeps getting dragged away from his position due to his instruction to specifically mark Player Y'

That's the idea! Defensively I want him to do that, and then his attacking instructions (AP attack for one and AM attack for the other, with roam from position) will get them to go to the positions I want them when I have the ball.

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