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Getting comfortable and let them do the work - No Possession game

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Hey there this is my first attempt here, i have read alot of guides and general discussions and tried to take what was important out of them. but there is just too much to remember it all and thats why i will keep going that trail and error way. oh and excuse the english, i do have some issues with that language :confused:

so what is this all about?

well i watched a couple of matches from fc torino last season and was amazed of how comfortable they are without the ball. it almost seemed like they didnt really want to have the ball at all at points, there was no intense closing down, no pressing in the final third. no torino just 'jogged' in their own half, closing down space so efficiantly that the opposition just didnt know what to do. in many scenes the opposition CD or DM at one point just played a complete unmotivated long ball wich either was picke dup by the GK or went out for a goal kick.

dont get me wrong though, i dont want to replicate the torino game 100%, even though i did start my save with fc torino. i just want to get to that point where i, when i see a game, feel totaly secure when the opposition tries to build up play.

how i see torino against the ball

formation: a 3-5-2 or rather a 3-1-4-2

roles:

CDR/L: act like stopper, go out of line aggressivly, close down an opposition striker/midfielder high (high ist relativ because the whole team is in its own half but they do go close to the center of the pitch), keep forcing the opposition to play back to their defensline

CDC: would probably be the cover then, does not leave his position as aggressive as the other two

DM: simply always creates a numeric majority around the ball, as in closing down the same player as the CDR/L but not getting stuck in but rather closing down his passing possibility further up the pitch, mostly moves horizontaly

WMR/L: dont close down at all, they do follow the opposition wingers though, the one away from the ball always fills up the defense line, the one close to the ball major duty is to prefent the opposition to play down the flank, he also primarly closes down passing ways

CMR/L: the closing down part, these two do disturbe the build up of the opposition, mostly they break out of line and hassle the opposition FB or CB when they get close to the midfield line. they put pressure up but they also dont lose their heads and run all over the place, these runs are good timed and mostly get the opposition to play the ball back in line or and thats what they actualy want, play a vertical ball to a CM, because here somewhere between the frist and second third of the pitch, in the center, is where torino win the ball (the closing down trap!). the DM, the CD, the WM they will all be close to the opposition CM or ST or AM, who ever is in that position to recieve the ball, and isolate him from his team!

ST: they dont get behind the ball, they close down pass ways but they dont give up to intensive runs, they do tough, when the CM breaks out, have an eye for his position and act as additional pressure on the centre when the opposition plays that ball into the center of the pitch

i hope you can see what i saw, i will only concentrate on the "against the ball" part

If i translate that into my fm14, then it would probably be something like:

3-1-4-2

GK(D)

CDL(S) - mark tight

CD©

CDR(S) - mark tight

DM(D)/DLP(D)

WML(D/S) - close down less

BWML(S)

BWMR(S)

WMR(S/D) - close down less

AFL(A)

CFR(S)

Mentality: DEFEND

Fluidity: RIGID/VERY RIGID

My FM14 setup in preseason tough looks more like this now:

Against EQUAL or WEAKER Teams

3-5-2

GK(D) - to defenders, shorter passing

CDL(D)

BPD(D)

DCR(D)

DLP(D)

WML(Auto)

BBM(S) - run wide, more risky passes, close down more

DLP(D)

BWM(S) - shoot more

WMR(Auto) - run wide

AFL(A) - hold position, move in channels

CFR(S) - hold position, dribble less

TI's:

-

Mentality: DEFENSIVE

Fluidity: VERY RIGID

Against STRONGER Teams:

3-2-3-2

GK(D) - to defenders, shorter passing

CDL(D)

BPD(D)

CDR(D)

DLPL(D) - more direct passes

DMR(D) - shoot more

WML(D) - more risky passes, mark tight

CM(A)

WMR(D) - more risky passes, mark tight

AFL(A) - hold position, move in channels

CFR(S) - hold position, dribble less

TI's

Higher Tempo

Pass Into Space

Push up Higher

Mentality: DEFENSIVE

Fluidity: VERY RIGID

what i already noticed is that even against strong oppositions i do keep the ball alot, possessions is almost equal around 54%/46% and we do get in trouble when the play troughballs on their wingers or switch to oposite flank. my DLP has 80+ passes in a game, which looks almost like a possession based tactic.

so i will keep you updated on the evolution of this tactic/style of play :D and maybe you do have some good advice, thoughs anything about this.

always remeber THEY SHOULD HAVE THE BALL, WE SHOULD BE RELAXED BUT A CONSTANT THREAD!

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Very nice first post.

It all sounds really intersting and well thouhgt. My only dilema to say so, is why do you go with "Push Up Higher" against the better opposition.

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as for now after friendlys against PSG, OL and OSC i am far away of beeing relaxed when they have the ball. the biggest issue seems to be the flanks, the WM dont close them down they way i want them to, there is no filling up the defenseline to a four man defense and there is always a gap in behind. maybe a more fluid approach will change this problem? i will try in my next fixture against montpellier (touring france at the moment thats why only french teams)

also there is too much posession still always around 45-48% thats just too much, we dont want the ball!!

i picked push higher because my dline is extremly deep anyways due to DEFEND Mentality and i dont want my CDs to be in my own Box, they should be right about around there but not deeper! i will keep you updated if i get the dline where i want it to be!

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A couple of things to begin with.

Your defensive line all have a Defend mentality in some situations. This means they are likely to simply drop off, hence dragging the rest of your team backwards. You may want at least one stepping out to press the opposition. Your rigid mentality will take care of the rest.

Your central midfield generally consists of playmakers and ball-winning midfielders. This seems to be the opposite of what you're trying to do. BWM will dash around everywhere chasing the opposition. A CM/S or a CM/D should give you what you're after. Your DLPs will demand possession off the defence, which is probably why you see so much possession.

You might want to consider a Defensive Forward/Attacking Forward combination up front to achieve what you're after. Also be aware that 'Hold Position' and 'Move into channels' are slightly conflicting (at least in my opinion).

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but if i want the torino style of CM, then they do need to close down more the any other player on the pitch, i will try switching the DLP to a CM(D) first, maybe thats already enough. thanks for the advise

oh and i will never ever consider playing a fluidity higher then rigid again :D, just lost 4-1 against montpellier and my dline was just a huge mess!

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Haha, yeah it's definitely a rigid tactic!

A CM will close down, just not as much as a BWM. A BWM doesn't have a great deal of discipline in this game and usually needs to be covered by a another (at least semi-defensive) midfielder, so you'll find your midfield line is all over the place if you have two! He has licence to go and close just about anyone down. You could try tweaking a CM to 'Close Down More'. Have a tinker with it and see what works best for you.

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a short little update/question before work

is there any way to get a player out on a wide midfield position to drop deep and fill up the d-line to a back four?

i guess you all know what i want to see, but i have no idea how to make it happen. i want my right WM to drop in and act as right FB when the opposition is attacking my left side but this movement only seems possible with Players in a Wingback position. Is that true and if its true, why is that?

a complete update of the, not yet working, tactic will be added tonight

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is there any way to get a player out on a wide midfield position to drop deep and fill up the d-line to a back four?

i guess you all know what i want to see, but i have no idea how to make it happen. i want my right WM to drop in and act as right FB when the opposition is attacking my left side but this movement only seems possible with Players in a Wingback position. Is that true and if its true, why is that?

The best fit will be to use Defensive Wingers on Defend. However, they will Close Down More than you seem to want, so you may need to make a compromise. I'm not on the game at the moment, so can't see if DWs can be asked to Close Down Less.

Incidentally, I agree with most of ajsr1982's comments.

Your observations about Fluidity and defensive line are incorrect in my opinion. Your defensive line is compromised with the use of outer Stoppers, which you appear to use in the 3-1-4-2. If you just had Defend Duties across the back three and even a Very Fluid Fluidity, the defensive line would not be "a mess".

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I think with the Defensive mentality you end up with a lot of possession because your players will generally choose the safest option, which is just to pass it around inside their own half.

You might need to use the Route One option to make them just thump the ball down the other end of the pitch at every opportunity.

I want to see how this one works out, I really like the idea of a team that simply refuses to play football.

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I think with the Defensive mentality you end up with a lot of possession because your players will generally choose the safest option, which is just to pass it around inside their own half.

This isn't necessarily correct - all of the Defend Duty players in a Defensive system will play more direct passes. That doesn't necessarily equate to long passes, but means they will move it quickly to get it away from the defensive zone as soon as they can, rather than circulate it safely in their own half.

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so here is what i go with so far:

2yWPrUy.png

Mentality: DEFENSIV

Fluidity: VERY RIGID

GK: shorter passing, to defenders

LWB: run wide

DM: more direct passes

RWB: cut inside

RCM: runn wide

DF: hold position

there ist still far too much possession for me, still around 50/50 or my team even leading that stat!

and here you see how frustrating it can be, watching what you've created! :eek:

Ng0DDKF.png

see how efficient my DF(S) #9 uses all that space, he really has that special drive to go for goal i guess!

wM89Ukk.png

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