Recreating Newell´s Tata Martino tactics. Help Needed.

[Wenger6]

Apart from his not so successful reign at Barcelona, Martino has done wonders at Paraguay and he has created the best team I got the chance to watch in person being his Newell´s side who won the Argentine First division and got kicked out of the Copa Libertadores by Atl Minerio in the Semi Finals.

I wanted to recreate his tactics but I´m no expert, so I would love to receive some suggestions from you guys and see what we can do together.

First of all, I know that every great manager must adapt to matches, but to replicate "el tata´s" tactic, he strongly believed in his idea of posession based football and that is non-negotiable. No matter how strong, how weak the other team were, Newell´s must be in complete control of the ball.

Here you can find a good article on it: http://ilikefootballme.wordpress.com/2012/11/27/like-a-lepra-messiah/

Anyways the basics would be like this:

Key Elements of the Play:

Width: Newells would strech the pitch as much as possible.Using their too very attacking Wingbacks to bomb forward, specially Casco, with Villaba dropping deep playing like a halfback, getting between the CBs on Posession.

Heinze´s Ball Playing Defender Role: When teams were sitting very deep, Heinze would grab the ball and launch some Long Passes to Maxi Rodriguez or Scocco. This is for me a very tricky thing to replicate in Fm. Since the team consists on Short Passing except from Heinze and maybe Bernardi. My view so far is to play him as a BPD + More Direct Passes + Having the PPM Switch Balls to other flank.

The Bernardi Role. For anyone who has seen Bernardi Play he is a pirlo-esque figure, doing something similar to the Half Back role in the CM strata. He would be played the ball very regularly, all the play passing trough his feet. And having a vision and magic passing ability, he would launch trough balls and unlock oposition defenses.

The Scocco Role: Scocco did not enjoy a good time at England, but for Newells he made things happen. I´d guess its between Treq and Complete Striker.

So far translated to Fm, It would be:

Sweeper Keeper, Guzman was the argentine version of Neuer building play from the back and acting like a libero.

WB(s) Caceres, CD(Cover) Vergini, BPD(Stopper) Heinze (+more direct passes), CWA Casco

HB(D) Villalba

DLP(s) ? Lucas Bernardi, BtoB Perez

IF(A) Maxi Rodriguez AP(s) Figueroa

Treq Ignacio Scocco.

Any suggestions as to philosphy let me know, Im inclined to say Rigid since there are lots of specialist roles.

[jamez_b]

Nice idea and always like a thread on South American tactics. Firstly what team are you planning to use to implement Martino's tactics?

I would maybe start your testing with a similar side to Newell's in South America/Mexico as then you are playing in a similar environment to where Martino was successful. I'd pick the team based who has the most similar players to Bernardi, Socco and Heinze seeing as they've been called out as the key players.

Philosophy wise i have personally found the high press/high tempo game more successful using Standard/Fluid but still using a few specialist roles. But by all means try the use of Attacking/Overload but it will be exploited defensively if your players aren't quick enough.

Instructions wise i'd have the usual pressing ones(Hassle opponents, tight marking and high or very high line) as well as hard tackling, more disciplined and either high or very high tempo dependent on what works best during your testing.

I'd also train 2 formations with one having short passing and retain possession selected and the other with more direct passing. Play out of defense as well as this should involve the Villalba type player a lot more.

I'd also experiment with some of the bases positioning as well. Try the Maxi and Figueroa roles in the M RL, AM RL and AM Cs, M Cs stratas or have 2 DMs with the Bernardi player as a regista and Perez as a CM Attack. I've found that moving away from the "base" positions you see in real life is the best way to replicate a similar approach in FM. I guess test to see which is most effective to give you the end result you want.

Anyway let us know what team you've picked and the players that fit the key Martino players and we can go from there.

[bacorales]

Hi Wenger6, I´m Newells supporter from Argentina. I can help you to recreate the tactic you suggest.

The tactic "drawing" you put is pretty good. The difficult of this is to recreate it in FM.

The basic strategy is a very controlled and patient play. Guzman always played as a sweeper, distributing the ball with short passes to the defenders.

With GK ball possession, Villalba aways dopped back as a Central Defender, Heinze moved to left and Vergini to right. Casco and Caceres moved foward to the WB L/R with Bernadi as a DLP support and Perez could be a BtoB player or MC (he sometimes helped with transicion and sometimes moved foward, with good surpising long shots)

Maxi Rodriguez and Figueroa played wide but cutting inside to help the foward moves from Casco and Caceres. Casco has a little bit more freedom to move foward than Caceres.

I think Scocco played more like a false 9 than trequartista, he moved into chanels both right and left.

Now, when rivals pressed foward, (Heinze, Vergini or Villaba) WB (Casco and Caceres) dropped back a little with Bernardi through the middle. So they tryied to pass the pressing through the sides. Guzman made goog middle range passes to WBs, and if they were pressed, they passed the ball back to defenders or Gk to start all over again, keeping possesion all the time.

But if the rival waits within the midfield, Heinze ran foward to make some of the rivals to press him. Caceres or Casco moved foward too, so he had 4 or 5 options to make a short pass with taking out a marker, making a hole through the middle (don´t know if you interpret me)

When Casco or Caceres moved foward, the L or R Winger cut inside as a Inside Foward or Advanced Playmaker. Because Newells lacked of a tall or good header in the rival area (Scocco is short and he always almost alone with 2 defenders), they rarely made a cross to the middle of the area, they tryied to play a short back centre, run with ball inside the area or made some one-twos. If they couldn´t, they played back again to the middle, always with patience.

Bernardi was the brain, maybe compare him with Pirlo is too ambitious haha, he received the ball and pass, always to the feet or looking for short spaces, then he moved to another position and reiceve, then pass, all over again so he carried the ball and opened the game, and when a "hole" appeared he made the right through ball.

Pressing was high (not very high) - the 3 fowards players always pressed the defenders or Defensive Midfielders, if they passed this 3 ones the WBs and MCs inmidiatelly pressed within midfield. So with this they forced the rivals to make long passes to fowards, having Vergini and Heinze as good headers to anticipate, and the WBs and Def Midfielder going back to help.

I don´t know wich philosophy could be the correct one, I think players helped to contribute in all phases of play, as Fluid philosphy said, but It could be wrong to put a lot of creative freedom, as you said there are lot of specialist and could get more freedom than its need.

Hope this helped you, any question just ask!

[jamez_b]

bacorales excellent post and very interesting. Always good to get the input from someone that was actually there to witness the success of a tactic.

What would you say are the limitations of FM that stops you recreating it?