Brazil x Colombia - the X-Ray

[Readingfanman]

I think Tele has dragged a few of his forum mates into here.

Forum Friends

[Kerber]

No, I was here fighting almost alone since Croatia match.

I think Tele just appeared now that we are almost in the final.

But he did a great job on this thread.

I wouldn't watch that match again, but it just confirms the impression I had about this.

Brazil played that same way against Spain. And if they play like this again today, probably they will win, and the same people will complain again about current Brazil style.

I don't mind if we play like that for the title. Those games against Spain and Colombia were pure domination.

[Guest]

MLG has competition, who would have thought it.

[Jeroen Thijssen]

I think Reddiablo meant Robbens dive against Mexico, not the Brazil match.

Right Red?

Robben. Player of the tournament. Best in the world.

[DJ]

Robben. Player of the tournament. Best in the world.

Makes ONE SINGLE dive against Mexico (after being kicked all over the place by every other team all tournament long), is the ONLY player in the whole tournament to have the courage to say so, and everyone goes batsh.tcrazy! Watch the haters and jealous people flock like some sort of flying vermin around a lamppost to highlight again and again that one single half admission, pffffff.

[Fe98]

We all saw the match, but we didn't see what you apparently did.

From a different thread it looks like you are Brazilian though, so that explains the bias I suppose. All Brazilians can't be like PMLF

We'd hope not!

[Jeroen Thijssen]

Makes ONE SINGLE dive against Mexico (after being kicked all over the place by every other team all tournament long), is the ONLY player in the whole tournament to have the courage to say so, and everyone goes batsh.tcrazy! Watch the haters and jealous people flock like some sort of flying vermin around a lamppost to highlight again and again that one single half admission, pffffff.

The whole world knows that Pepe and the like are angels compared to the spawn of Satan that is Arjen Robben.

[RubenJ]

His admission is just a footnote. Don't think anyone really cared about that?

[LewisQ]

The insane, blinkered lack of objectivity in South American football always cheers me up. Long may it continue!

[PMLF]

Tele, don't waste your time.

People in this forum have a fear of Brazil being champions again that they exaggerate everything. That's the same reason why people became so happy after Spain elimination.

You can make polls like DJ said, be it would just confirm what I'm saying. People don't wanna see Brazil champion again. They need to find a reason for Brazil being so dominant in that match when Argentina, Netherlands and Germany couldn't be when facing weaker teams. And the only thing they could have is the number of fouls.

Everyone that saw Brazil Vs Colombia knows that Brazil was the only side that could have won that match. Many "fouls" of brazilian players weren't even fouls. That's why this stats are so wrong. I don't need to watch that match again.

People here just complain about referees helping Brazil, but we only saw an error against Croatia, and even in that match Croatia didn't deserved the victory more than Brazil.

It's very strange that our best player is out of the WC after that so called "more violent game ever" and all that help from the referees and FIFA.

FIFA could at least kick out Messi, Robben and Muller to help us out. Don't expect nothing less following all this help that we had so far.

There is no fear Brazil win, people here just often don't like teams that dive too much or that are too dirty or that are too defensive, etc... Before the game against Colombia Brazil even had a lot of support here among the non-Brazilians, the support vanished after how Brazil played.

If you check all the Champions League threads, you see the same pattern.

[Tele Santana]

Sorry guys,

I had to be away for a while. Kerber, my bad I just remembered this forum after the WC was way under way.

Anyways, to all. It´s been a really funny thread to start.

First, people assumed that I said facts when I talked about subjectivity and opinion in my OP.

I did forget to explain the dynamics of the foul calling and incidents chronology, but supposedly was: Country the foul was called against (# of total fouls from this country) - player who commited the foul - player who received the foul - my take (= opinion) whether the foul was clear or not, its intensity (if it deserved a warning, a yellow or a red), and anymore comments related to each incident.

I also tried to comment on officiating-related incidents, not necessarily fouls, that were bad calls, for both sides.

You don´t need to be a genious to understand that "clear foul", although a strong remark, is still a opinion, up for debate.

I saw some posters talk about Fernandinho challenges, but haven´t read any of them come back and say - you are wrong in this specific play. He deserved a yellow because etc. etc. etc. It maybe even be the case Fernandinho (who was not in danger of being suspended by a yellow) could have received a yellow afterhis 3rd foul.

But I haven´t seen anyone also comment on why Rodriguez would fall down like he´s been shot in the play next to the end of the first half and then miraculously gets himself up and resume play. If this was Neymar, there would be flopping and diving accusations, of course, from the people who downplay Robben´s tactics because he is honest (after the game, that is).

Or on Cuadrado diving at the beggining of the second half or staying all the game in the ears of the referee with Yepes.

Nevertheless, my first post was on the merits of who won, and why. And it was pretty clear Brazil dominated the match for the entire first half and most of the second half as well.

One thing that is definitely a fact is that both teams had about the same number of fouls in the 1st half, which kind of buries the notion of Brazil was the first aggressor, and that the first Brazilian foul came after Brazil scored its first goal, when Colombia had already 3 fouls to their numbers. No one seemed to care with this fact that would jeopardize some of the anti-Brazil rants.

About James being targeted, of course he was marked, and well marked, sometimes with fouls within the boundaries of the game. I am still waiting for anyone to show me a foul that was from behind and designed to hurt. That, as a young gun, he was frustrated because he already made a name for himself and was being marked like Maradona, Zico, Neymar, Pelé or whoever is understandable. The whining and crying of a group of people who follows football for quite a while isn´t.

The fact that James received two fouls in the 2nd half (when Brazil was called for more fouls) was ignored either.

When we talk about Neymar receiving 4 fouls in that game, after the persecution he endured in the Chile game, and that the no-call would be the 5th foul against him, brings up the diving b***** from people who can´t really say in which of those fouls he received he did dive. One less than James, in a day he was not playing well.

I haven´t seen anyone comment on the full sequence of the Zuniga assault. Has anyone actually seen him talking to Neymar before the play? Has anyone cared to look at the play before the frames brought here by PMLF and see him checking Neymar´s field position? Has anyone actually realized that he already had a go at Neymar in the beggining of the 2nd half in a very similar situation? Or, for that matter, that the knee goes instinctively up when jumping - which is as b***** as it can be from one who played football for quite a while - is as falacious as proved by the many charges from behind that happened in the game without these so-called needed physic dynamics (from some Einstein experts here) taking place?

In the end of the day, having a Dutch describing the fouls of the final of 2010 after criticizing my analysis just for it was ironically histerical.

And by the way, I wasn´t referring to the final when I called that team a team of thugs. I could cry out that Brazil had a penalty not called on Kaká when it was dominating the match in the first half in 2010, that Snejder and Robben did dive all over that game, but won´t. The fact is that the Dutch in 2010 played abrasive football and much more violently than Brazil has played both in Confederations Cup and in this current World Cup last two matches, where it is resorting to tactical fouling, yes, perhaps a bit more than opposition, yes, but nothing too different and, especially, not in a violent way.

Anyways, Germany is the favourite today and imo for the torunament, the eurocentric bunch will be happy with a Ger-Ned final and if so, congratulations to both.

Cheers,

Tele

P.S. - Loved the going Tele remark, really laughed

[Jeroen Thijssen]

So, in agreeing with you - I'm being histerical? Is that just completely dismissing your own analysis?

[Tele Santana]

Redddiablo,

I didn´t recall you agreeing with me, although definitely you didn´t try to mock the effort like some of your countrymen did without even getting the point here

The irony is that, after so many bashing from the people who sees Brazil games, to use your terms, in black or white - like, if Neymar is fouled it is a dive, if James is touched he´s been hunted down, and so on forth - when the discussion was changed into the 2010 Final and became a more polarized affair between the European majority here, you resorted (in a briefer way, of course) in the same line of argument I did here. That for me, was histerycal - not in an offensive way, but reflecting on how the thread has gone.

Cheers,

Tele

[Heartwork]

I've heard a rumour going around the interwebs that Brazilian gangsters and mafiosos are putting a price on Zuniga's head. Colombian cartel leaders have since stated that if anyone touches any Colombian player they will behead the entire Brazil squad.

Probably nonsense but considering the story of Andres Escobar I wouldn't be THAT surprised if it was true.

[EnterUsernameHere]

Marcelo already diving, poor Brazilians can't take being behind.

Cheers,

Tele

[skybluedave]

I've heard a rumour going around the interwebs that Brazilian gangsters and mafiosos are putting a price on Zuniga's head. Colombian cartel leaders have since stated that if anyone touches any Colombian player they will behead the entire Brazil squad.

Probably nonsense but considering the story of Andres Escobar I wouldn't be THAT surprised if it was true.

Think the Brazilian gangstas will take that exchange right now

[Guest]

As a completely naive European football fan I just wonder when we will see the return likes of the 1982 World cup playing style.

[Heartwork]

Think the Brazilian gangstas will take that exchange right now

TBH the Germans are skinning the Brazilians alive right now anyway

[PMLF]

As a completely naive European football fan I just wonder when we will see the return likes of the 1982 World cup playing style.

Probably never. It certainly won't happen in the near future as football here is heavily based on counterattacks and set pieces.

[Kerber]

Probably never. It certainly won't happen in the near future as football here is heavily based on counterattacks and set pieces.

Never. South american national championships now are weak as never before. And it wouldn`t change so soon.

We can`t keep the best players in our championship, so the teams change a lot every season, and that leads to zero quality.

Hope that this WC open some eyes here for real.

Seems that the coach of the team I root for (Gremio) is changing a lot of the team from the sequence of the Brasileirao based on some stuff that we saw in the WC.

He is picking more young, fast and smart players instead of the strong slow aged and dated players we used to have. He is trying just one really defensive midfielder. Here in Brazil is really normal to have 3 defensive midfielders in a 442 formation. Yes, 442 formation is the most advanced thing we have here.

Shame that they have to see a WC in their country to realize this. Hope that this Germany teach them some lessons.

We had the players to do this.

[PMLF]

Never. South american national championships now are weak as never before. And it wouldn`t change so soon.

We can`t keep the best players in our championship, so the teams change a lot every season, and that leads to zero quality.

Hope that this WC open some eyes here for real.

Seems that the coach of the team I root for (Gremio) is changing a lot of the team from the sequence of the Brasileirao based on some stuff that we saw in the WC.

He is picking more young, fast and smart players instead of the strong slow aged and dated players we used to have. He is trying just one really defensive midfielder. Here in Brazil is really normal to have 3 defensive midfielders in a 442 formation. Yes, 442 formation is the most advanced thing we have here.

Shame that they have to see a WC in their country to realize this. Hope that this Germany teach them some lessons.

We had the players to do this.

This process at Grêmio started last year, I think without changing the managers, any changes will be temporary or limited.

Palmeiras did the right thing hiring a foreign manager (Gareca).