Readingfanman Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 I can't be the only one who's a bit fed up of Brazil in this tournament by now can I? I get that the longer the host stays in, the better it it is for the tournament, but the games they've played have largely been ruined so far by either players, decisions, or a piece of good fortune (seemingly often on the side of the hosts). I know we are already at the semi final stage now, but I'm badly hoping Germany beat them, or if not, a final loss against the Dutch or the Argentinians (who also have been hugely fortunate I feel!). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD nawrat Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 ABB! \o/ I can't stand this Brazil squad. Nothing at all likeable about them unlike previous WC squads (even if they were dickheads back then, at least they had Ronaldo or Ronaldinho or someone like that). Hope Germany smash them and if that fails, then I hope Belgium or Costa Rica beat them (so COME ON GERMANY ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMLF Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 I wonder why people are only realizing this now, Brazil (and Brazilian teams and players) do what they have to do to win. It's nothing new and didn't start with Scolari and won't end with him. But previous squads had better players and people tend to remember the past in a more positive way, maybe due to forgetting details, etc.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Readingfanman Posted July 5, 2014 Author Share Posted July 5, 2014 I'm not really too fussed that they do what they need to win. I think it's fair game. But it has frustrated me no end this tournament as they seem to have had the fortune go their way as well as major decisions go in their favour also. It probably doesn't help there is no "likeable" world star in their team though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMLF Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 I'm not really too fussed that they do what they need to win. I think it's fair game. But it has frustrated me no end this tournament as they seem to have had the fortune go their way as well as major decisions go in their favour also. It probably doesn't help there is no "likeable" world star in their team though. Referees have always favored Brazil (and at home this gets worse) but I think today it was more bad refereeing than biased refereeing, the referee could easily have avoided Thiago Silva's card for example though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Readingfanman Posted July 5, 2014 Author Share Posted July 5, 2014 Today yes, bad referring, the Croatia game, bad/biased again. I think both officials and players alike see the shirt and play against it, and not play the team/the match. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Riccardo Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Yes I am ABB now too. Neymar is the boy who cried wolf and Ceasar should have been sent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff Jeroen Thijssen Posted July 5, 2014 SI Staff Share Posted July 5, 2014 Neymar is out! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleanor_Rigby Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Fernandinho is the new van Bommel. Commits umpteen dozen fouls per game and still walks off the park without so much as a talking to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmr Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 I wonder why people are only realizing this now, Brazil (and Brazilian teams and players) do what they have to do to win. It's nothing new and didn't start with Scolari and won't end with him.But previous squads had better players and people tend to remember the past in a more positive way, maybe due to forgetting details, etc.. more like: previous squads = good attacking football with some of the best players ever. current squad = Stoke FC, kick the opposition and rely on the one decent player we have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helarxe Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 You mean Oscar I hope! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
football_master_94 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Fully support this idea. Brazil in this WC are like the **** that won't flush, it's time that they **** off and pack their bags tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
georginho_juventusygr Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Can't hate Brazil. David Luiz has great personality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD nawrat Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Fernandinho is the new van Bommel. Commits umpteen dozen fouls per game and still walks off the park without so much as a talking to. At club level he's nothing like that, though. I think Scolari tells him to just kick people Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthrax Dave Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 After watching their disgraceful antics last night, I am firmly in the ABB camp. Mon Germany! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Demon Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Shocked PMLF didn't make this one already Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMLF Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 more like: previous squads = good attacking football with some of the best players ever. current squad = Stoke FC, kick the opposition and rely on the one decent player we have. People (especially abroad) used to criticize pretty much all Brazil squads since 1990 for lack of attacking football. What changes is that over time people start criticizing the current team and overrate the style of the previous squads even though the previous squads were criticized back in their own times. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Readingfanman Posted July 5, 2014 Author Share Posted July 5, 2014 Trust me it's not that, previous Brazil squads were dull too! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tele Santana Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 I wouldn´t say Brazil teams of 98 and 02 were dull or lacked attacking drive. Although I would say the 98 team was a tactical mess (Zagallo was way beyond his league already). Although the 06 team was extremely disappointing - and this comes down to many players having had a championship already and the lack of leadership of Parreira, Brazil by all means played very good stretches of football in the late 80´s - the 3 last games of the Copa America were great in 89 - than in the 90´s after the WCup victory and and also after 02. Just like France after 98. Your team becomes very good after you win it all, then you lose. 2010 was boring, 94 was not as much boring as people like to say, 90 played an amazing game against Argentina and a reasonable one against Sweden. And in 82 and 86 the team played well. Took a bit in 86 but Spain was good and Algeria was the subpar match of the squad. But of course, people always expect Brazil to play like in 82, 70 and 58. Cheers, Tele Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thengil Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Brazil in 94 had the awesome Romario at his peak. Incredible player. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leppard Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 I hope Germany thump them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baptista_8 Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Can't get behind this. Come on Brazil!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 I wouldn´t say Brazil teams of 98 and 02 were dull or lacked attacking drive. Although I would say the 98 team was a tactical mess (Zagallo was way beyond his league already). Although the 06 team was extremely disappointing - and this comes down to many players having had a championship already and the lack of leadership of Parreira, Brazil by all means played very good stretches of football in the late 80´s - the 3 last games of the Copa America were great in 89 - than in the 90´s after the WCup victory and and also after 02. Just like France after 98. Your team becomes very good after you win it all, then you lose. 2010 was boring, 94 was not as much boring as people like to say, 90 played an amazing game against Argentina and a reasonable one against Sweden. And in 82 and 86 the team played well. Took a bit in 86 but Spain was good and Algeria was the subpar match of the squad.But of course, people always expect Brazil to play like in 82, 70 and 58. Cheers, Tele I see people saying this often but I don't think it's true, I do think people expect Brazil to put out a team better than Fred, Hulk, Jo, Paulihno and an aging Maicon. They are a shell of the talented teams Brazil have been able to put out in times past and even worse they have resorted to kicking talented teams off the park. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMLF Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 I see people saying this often but I don't think it's true, I do think people expect Brazil to put out a team better than Fred, Hulk, Jo, Paulihno and an aging Maicon. They are a shell of the talented teams Brazil have been able to put out in times past and even worse they have resorted to kicking talented teams off the park. Kicking talented teams has happened before. I think the issue, style aside, is that people also overrate Brazil too much (again, because of 1970 and 1982), Brazil have no divine right to be the best ever and to have plenty of talented players only because that happened in the past, and just like others declined or had bad periods, that can happen to Brazil too. Considering clubs in Brazil are having to resort more and more to foreign players, I think Brazil's national team long term future will not be great although I expect this generation to be better in 2018 than it is now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tele Santana Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 I don´t think this Brazilian team is more physical or violent than any other team playing in this WC. Again, it is a misconception that, although many people are comfortable expecting Germans and English to be physical, Argentineans and Uruguayans to play dirty, Italians to be both dirty and theatrical and so on so forth, the truth is that in modern football every team has a degree of aggressiveness and dirtiness, and Brazil is no different. Your "kicking talented teams off the park" statement just proves my point that indeed, many people expect Brazilian teams to play swashbuckling artistic football and behave like male versions of nuns even if they lose and at the very moment they see a different situation or setup, they become frustrated with Brazil as they wouldn´t be with their own teams. It is almost like a compliment, but channeled in a wrong way, of course. Now, if you say you don´t like Scolari´s tactics of using fouls, you are entitled to. But this is by no means exclusive of Brazil. As for the caliber of the team, I agree with PMLF, and to some extent, to you. The World Cup is being played here a bit earlier than this generation would peak, and you can´t have successive generations of incredible players, even if you are mighty Brazil or Argentina. It is frustrating for me that the man leading the attacking line is Fred, when we had Ronaldo, Romario and even Adriano before. Cheers, Tele Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
masteR Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 I haven't noticed any vicious knee-kicking by the Germany players, Brazil was clearly on another level in that respect... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tele Santana Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Any of the so-called knee-kicking worse than Matuidi´s leg breaking tackle or Zuniga´s hit on Hulk? Just asking... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
masteR Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Regardless of Matuidi or Zuniga, Germany for one is a team that doesn't make a lot of fouls, especially cynical ones like the ones you mentioned or like the Fernandinho x James challenges for example. So you cannot just say every team is the same thing regarding violence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMLF Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 I don't know why the fact Brazil has been violent even surprises people, happens every now and then in Brazilian football and Scolari himself has done it before, even in a World Cup (ex: Portugal vs Holland). Brazil (be it the national team, club teams and the players) will do what they have to do to win because losing is considered humiliating. So if they have to be violent, they will be, if they have to dive/simulate/etc.. they will do so, if they can use off the pitch measures like complaining about referees, etc.. they will do so and so on. This is nothing new either, when it comes to the World Cup, that has happened as early as 1954 and there were (outside the World Cup) famous fights like this one in a Brazil vs Uruguay game in 1976: [video=youtube_share;VeNZ7aF2sqE] Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay all have the same 'win at all costs' mentality, the difference is that Brazil were more successful in general and didn't have to resort to beating up opponents as often as Argentina and Uruguay. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tele Santana Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Ah, now I see your argument. Basically it is something like: you mention every team, but Germany is an exception. So I invite you to go ahead and watch every match from Germany in this World Cup and see if they didn´t committ any ugly fouls. Since you are my fellow countryman, go to Globo.com and watch them in their entirety. Actually, I did that and just found Khedira going over a Ghanaian player´s feet, close to the knee, in their phase group game. As far as fair play goes, I´d say Muller flopped on Pepe´s first challenge. Not that Pepe, as the idiot he is, didn´t deserve his ejection for the head butt. But there was clear theatre. You will find ugly fouls and dirtiness in every team, it is the job of the officials to avoid the worst of it. It maybe the case that Germany resorted less so far, but unless you see sports with baby lenses, there´s no way to believe in angels. PMLF, this is true for every major team - may not be the case only, and only, for absolute underdogs who do understand they don´t stand a chance against better prepared teams. The Italian team of the 30´s was reputed as a very aggressive team. England in 66 was it. Schumacher´s play in 82 (ops, he is German, I am sorry) was an absolute disgrace, so as Tassoti´s in 94. De Jong in 2010, and the list could go on forever, with or without the South American stereotypes. Cheers, Tele Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMLF Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 PMLF, this is true for every major team - may not be the case only, and only, for absolute underdogs who do understand they don´t stand a chance against better prepared teams. The Italian team of the 30´s was reputed as a very aggressive team. England in 66 was it. Schumacher´s play in 82 (ops, he is German, I am sorry) was an absolute disgrace, so as Tassoti´s in 94. De Jong in 2010, and the list could go on forever, with or without the South American stereotypes. Cheers, Tele I agree, although garra (which often leads to violence and gets confused with it) is a quality that is historically more valued here in South America than in Europe and none of the European teams you mentioned have the reputation of caring more about style than about winning, it's pretty much only Brazil and to some extent Holland that are supposed to play beautiful football no matter what and when they don't, people (especially abroad) start complaining as if it was unBrazilian (or unDutch), etc... when in reality it isn't. People complain too much about how this Brazil is playing when in reality playing to win is a very Brazilian trait. I also agree with this: You will find ugly fouls and dirtiness in every team, it is the job of the officials to avoid the worst of it. It maybe the case that Germany resorted less so far, but unless you see sports with baby lenses, there´s no way to believe in angels. If refereeing is lenient, violence on the pitch grows as players see they have more room to intimidate their opponents. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMLF Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 I hate nonsensical comments like this one, for example: BBC's South American football correspondent Tim Vickery said: "I wonder how many friends they are losing around the world, who have grown up with a cavalier image of Brazilian football." As if it mattered if Brazilian football lose 'friends around the world' or not. The problem there is the silly 'cavalier image of Brazilian football' rather than Brazilian football losing friends abroad. Brazil isn't a bastion of beautiful football nor should be anything like that, regardless of the perception abroad. There are many reasons to dislike the Brazilian national team, but Brazil playing to win rather than to put on a show shouldn't be one of them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tele Santana Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Although I disagree because imo Brazil has a tradition of producing players full of flair and skill, and that is usually connected to Jogo Bonito, I agree that Brazil shouldn´t play to make friends abroad, and that some of the lovers-turned-haters are a product of this nonsense which we have been discussing - which is: Brazil, play beautiful football, and if you win is ok, when it is the other way around: play to win, and if you can, do it in style - and most of these guys criticizing wouldn´t absolutely mind winning without any style if it were their National Teams. I just watched again the Brazil-Colombia match. I was thinking maybe I was biased, but decided to watch it in ESPN and then look at specific parts in Globo.com. And honestly, having watched most of the game 3 times now, it bears ridiculousness some of the claims I´ve seen. Colombia were, at least, as violent as Brazil - imo more, to say the least. Officiating made reasonably important mistakes against Brazil and in the so-called foul stats, there were 2 fouls on Ospina - one the Thiago Silva play, 1 handball from Neymar questionable at least and other plays that people around here have been calling soft fouls when made on Brazilian players. So again: we agree that Scolari, as a coach, is obsolete and that Brazil doesn´t play an entertaining style (but imo far away from being the least entertaining as well). I would add the squad has some significant weaknesses. But to say Brazil has tried to get James out of the game injured or is taking legs for granted is or officiating has been pro-Brazil in the last two matches is ludicrous, even laughable. I will come back on this issue later. Cheers, Tele Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerber Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 I agree 100% with you, just by Felipão being obsolete as a coach. Netherlans formation is so dated, even with that new Manchester United coach and nobody says a word. Colombia was as "violent" as Brazil. Poor referee on that game. Is just that we made more "tactical fouls", not violent fouls. The referee is there to stop that anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Netherlans formation is so dated, even with that new Manchester United coach and nobody says a word. Careful with that one. This formation is so flexible that it's a novelty. I am convinced that LvG planned for the first halves against Chile, Mexico and Costa Rica to be defensive, 'energy-saving mode' so that the furious attacking in the last quarter of those matches is calculated, pre-planned, instead of desperate measures. Colombia was as "violent" as Brazil. Poor referee on that game. Is just that we made more "tactical fouls", not violent fouls. The referee is there to stop that anyway. Hmmm. It was something like 50 fouls, 30 from Brazil. With a ref that managed to let James be fouled half a dozen times before dishing out a yellow... to James for his first foul. Sure, bandwagons, myths, Brazil are being talked into being the violent ones, just like the Dutch were in 2010. But it's not completely unfunded, just like back when. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerber Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Careful with that one. This formation is so flexible that it's a novelty. I am convinced that LvG planned for the first halves against Chile, Mexico and Costa Rica to be defensive, 'energy-saving mode' so that the furious attacking in the last quarter of those matches is calculated, pre-planned, instead of desperate measures. Don't think anyone plan on being press a half game like they did against Mexico. It's too dangerous. What we saw against Mexico and Costa Rica was a desperate team on the second half. So, that don't make sense at all. Hmmm. It was something like 50 fouls, 30 from Brazil. With a ref that managed to let James be fouled half a dozen times before dishing out a yellow... to James for his first foul.Sure, bandwagons, myths, Brazil are being talked into being the violent ones, just like the Dutch were in 2010. But it's not completely unfunded, just like back when. Is wrong to pick stats like these to say that Brazil was more violent. If the referee showed some cards from the very beggining nobody would be talking about the high number of fouls. If the referee doesn't care, why should the players stop? This Brazil is the same who did 60 fouls total in the groups stage. You have to complain about the referees, not the team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Readingfanman Posted July 9, 2014 Author Share Posted July 9, 2014 Delightful. This can be closed now they're out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerber Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Could be closed, sure. At least no red cards yesterday. I think it was just one yellow. Good referee. Kind of game that could change to a fight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baptista_8 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Unlucky Brazil, I'd rather watch your team any day than the emotionless Germans Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD nawrat Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Emotionless Germans hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha Arguably the most passionate nation in the history of the WC. Rare you don't see passion within a German international, ffs. Emotionless... hahahahahahahahahaha. Priceless, that is. Good riddance Brazil. Couldn't have asked for a more glorious, ceremonious dumping out of the tournament. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto Club Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Unlucky Brazil, I'd rather watch your team any day than the emotionless Germans Unfortunately, you will see an ultra defensive team with Tite as manager. At least, Brazil won't suffer 4 goals in 6 minutes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EhvanHSV Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Unlucky Brazil, I'd rather watch your team any day than the emotionless Germans Didn't know Stan Boardman posted on here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
football_master_94 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Unlucky Brazil, I'd rather watch your team any day than the emotionless Germans Oh my :D :D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMLF Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Unlucky Brazil, I'd rather watch your team any day than the emotionless Germans Unlucky? Brazil conceded 7 goals. It was an adult team against kids, seniors vs amateurs. There was no lack of Brazilian luck, just lack of quality and preparation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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