Help with my 4-5-1/4-3-3.

[AusBlackCat]

Hi guys!

I have been working on a 4-5-1/4-3-3 tactic for my Sunderland team

Here is the setup I currently have

I'm on attacking with balanced.

Shouts are: pass into space, more direct passing, drop deeper, play out of defence, and higher tempo.

My idea is, well meant to be that I try sit a little deeper and then when I win the ball back I have space to attack in at speed.

It works quite well against similar and lesser teams, but gets opened up pretty bad against better teams and they get a lot of shots and chances whilst I create very little.

I was just wondering if you guys could point a few things out for me. Is this the right formation to be playing the way I want? Are my roles ok? Why am I getting smashed against better teams?

[thizaum]

Black Cat,

I've tried getting a 4-3-3 to work for a while and ended up giving up. So, I might not be the right advisor for you.

But, if you feel like it, here are some things that I would point out.

- I've completely gave up on having WB behind a winger. Go ahead and set both on FB. If you want one to be more offensive, you may set it on attack duty, although I don't think that this is a good idea on this formation.

- The A works really well in this formation. I used to have a DMd on this position, but he always left his post and left the middle unmarked.

- I would rethink the MC pairing. I never used B2B, but have been using now and love it! You need a runner that can get closer to your striker, so I'd suggest either a CMa or B2B. The APa won't go forward as much as you need it. The creator can be either DLPs or APs. Give both a try to see what you prefer.

- If you have the players for it, try have 2 attacking wingers (one IF and one W) and switch your striker to any of the supporting roles (F9, TM, CF or DLP) or Treq. See which one fits you better. Try placing you runner CM on the same side as the Wa.

About the shouts, turn them all off and switch one by one on to see the effect. I'd suggest push higher instead of drop deeper. Your formation already sets the team deeper and I don't think you need them to play even deeper.

I hope this helps!

[PhroX]

Just one thing to note that many FM players seem to overlook - part of why better teams are beating you is just that: they're better than you.

[peleJunior]

How good at running with the ball is you APa? I ask because if he isn't skinning players regular then you only really have two runners looking to get on the end of things that is IFa and AF. Look at your left hand side; DLPs is going to be pretty disconnected from an IFa likewise a FBs but not as pronounced. I'd try using a WBs and either APs or CMs instead of DLPs, maybe even B2B, any role that will close the gap. I'd play fullback attack on the right side to over lap you support winger on that side. I'd consider a more "get involved" role for your lone striker, maybe DLF on attack if he's got the muscles.

[killacam0913]

Have you considered a 4-1-4-1? I don't know how you are getting beaten, but this may help you defensively, while still maintaining the ability to counter

[mattmccready]

For that set up you're going to need a DLP who is a very good passer and probably with 'switches ball to other flank', along with very quick strikers who are composed enough to beat the keeper on 1 on 1's.

If I were you I'd switch the WB to the same side as the IF, change the anchor man to DLP and the DLP to a box to box.

I use those two with a AP(A) as you have and although I play a more possession based (board imposed) style I play get some lovely counter attack play.

Also you may want to get your defenders playing shorter passes otherwise they'll just be playing direct balls and as we know defenders aren't the best passers. Leave that to your DLP.

[jpcote09]

All of the above. You have 2 creators in midfield, which can be okay if that is what you want, but your winger being on a support duty, you have only your IF and striker who are looking to get on the end of things. To me, a playmaker or trequartista on an attack duty is more like having a player on a support duty.

Now, why does it work against lesser sides and not against stronger sides? Well, I believe it has something to do with the tempo of your game. From what you are telling us, your team plays agonizingly fast (Attacking is already very fast + you add to that more direct passing and higher tempo which raise it even more), and that can work well against defenses which make marking mistakes or crack under pressure. OTOH, your team will struggle to create quality chances most of the time since they will be looking to play risky and low percentage passes all the time.

I love the 41221 formation and it is the one I use most often when I have the players available to do so. I am not someone to try and change other people's tactics to resemble mine because I think we should all have our own style, and I certainly don't pretend that my tactics are any better than anyone else's. However, Since you wanted advice, here is some :

- if you want to keep 2 creators in midfield : try to remove drop deeper and make your central players more cautious instead. Perhaps use DLP(D) and AP(S) + change your striker to a F9 or DLF so he drops to help support those playmakers in the centre. Also, use Exploit The Flanks or make your wide players more aggressive. I would Change the Winger to an attack duty + give an attack duty to one of your outside backs as well. This setup could work well with pass into space, but IMO/IME using playmakers (especially a dlp) conflicts a little with very high tempo games. But it certainly can work.

-if you want to keep your striker as an out and out attacker : i would consider giving him as much support as possible so he does not get isolated. Because you play a very direct game it is less of an issue, but if your AF is always alone when chasing balls he'll have a tough time doing anything with them when he gets on the end of them. Perhaps put both wingers on attack duty + one of your CMs on a CM(a) role. I would also consider changing your strikers role if you are just looking for him to score goals (poacher) or receive balls (target man). I've also had success in some situations with a lone DLF(a).

In both of the above situations, I would still consider lowering your tempo a bit. If you are looking to use playmakers a lot, remove more direct passing, your play will be more focused on them. If you want to launch long balls forward, instead of using Attacking + drop deeper, i would reduce your mentality to something more like standard. Your team will sit deeper and chase the ball less when defending, which will invite the other team forward and leave you space to exploit when you win the ball.

If you really want to keep the tempo as high as you already have it, consider forgetting your playmakers or at least tweaking their PIs. In that scenario I would tend to use BWM (D), BBM or CM (s) and CM(a) as my midfield trio. I would also keep one of my wingers on a support duty (as you have it now) but make sure he is a very good passer. Also consider giving some guys the Pass shorter-fewer risky passes to some players so to create some pivots and that not everybody launches long balls every time. Add some diversity to your attacks

[Overmars]

I have tried a False 9 as the lone striker, and he does some good creative work when playing with two inside forwards on attack, a central midfielder on attack, a box to box midfielder, an anchor man, and four defenders. I like that tactic when favoured or against equal opposition.

For better defensive presence, you can also try pushing one or both of the AML and AMR back to ML and MR with wide midfielder, get further forward, and cuts inside with ball instructions.

[AusBlackCat]

Thanks for the replies guys I appreciate it.

So after fiddling around with all the suggested changes I couldn't seem to come up with anything. In fact I was getting smashed. Particularly down their right side (my left side).

I have decided to go with a 4-1-4-1 system to hopefully create a little more stability.

This is my current setup.

What are your thoughts on my current setup? It has at least seemed to stabilise the flanks, as that was where I was getting destroyed, down my left side particularly - as I mentioned above.

Do you think this is the right kind of mentality and fluidity?

My passing % for a game never really gets any higher than 80%. Most likely to do with the quick direct style I play right?

What kind of tweaks should I make against stronger/weaker teams?

What do you guys do when you have a lead and the other teams changes things up and starts attacking you from every foreseeable angle?!

[jpcote09]

A couple of quick answers for you :

- there are no right/wrong mentalities or philosophies. They only dictate your approach to the game and it's much more about how you tweak that to fit your players and the game situation. Basically, I think of the mentalities as a grade of adventurousness, for example : contain=terrified, counter=cautious, control=adventurous, overload=Mad. This scale is much more representative of what happens in the ME, IMO. Then, for fluidity, I would suggest keeping balanced if you don't know what you are doing. It won't make or break your tactic.

- i think your roles are okay. I would consider giving your MR an attack duty, that way he will stay further from your right back and will be more ready to chase long balls (those passes into space). Don't worry, he will still track back and defend when needed. Also, because you play a very aggressive 4141, I would consider making your d-mid maybe just a tad more cautious. Contrary to popular belief, a BWM(d) as lone d-mid is not a tactic breaker, however in more aggresssive setups he might go overboard with his closing down and tackling. Test it, and if that happens, change him to a DM, A or even DLP (with or without PIs to make him pass less risky). Otherwise things seem pretty good. You will have a lot of crazy runs from deep (without ball). But I like that, and if you do too, then great!

- As far as tactical instructions are concerned, two things come to my mind : first, I would like you to explain the thinking behind 'play out of defence'. A lot of people use that TI, for a lot of different reasons, and with all due respect most of them are wrong. So thanks in advance for enlightening me on that.

Second, in some games 'Drop Deeper' might cause you trouble. I guess you might as well have better results with 'Much Deeper'. The reason for this is by going 'aggressive' (which is my interpretationof the Attacking mentality), your players will press very high and be relentless in trying to get it back in the opposition's half. Which is not exactly what you want, and that is why you thi k, I should drop deeper, right? Good reasoning, but probably wrong. I have had problems with a similar tactic earlier, because by dropping deeper on Attacking, my players were kind of 'in-between' being very aggressive in the press, or being very cautious and patient. This left my midfielders closiing down opponents semi-aggressively and late... I guess you know what comes next. We got smashed time after time especially against stronger sides. Try both deeper and much deepeer, and see which works better. Also don't pay too much attention to what the TC says about Much Deeper. It won't be the case with your tactic.

- I don't pay too much attention to pass completion rates, especially now that I watch all games in full match and can literally see what is wrong with my players' passing. But yeah, it is probably due to the fact that you are playing very direct. Same as IRL, you can't expect to complete 90% of your passes if you're playing freaking quick and mostly long passes. You could use the Analysis tab to see which players complete (or miss) the most passes and then tweak some PIs from there.

- What I do when the opponent goes more aggressive is totally dependent on the match situation and how they do it. I could tell you that I try to pass short and retain possession a lot with a low tempo, but sometimes the opponent will be so good at winning the ball quickly that I might concede bad turnovers close to my goal, which I don't want. I might tell you that I sit deep, stand off and stay on feet narrowly to force them to play the ball on the flanks, but if they have good crossers and aerial presence in the box, I am playing right into their hands. I could tell you that I switch to my 'counter' ('cautious' to me) strategy which is very tight, but I will probably not get another goal and I might still get hit from a long shot, set piece or a mistake from one of my players. All of the things I have mentioned do sometimes work though. You have to assess the match situation and the opponent's strengths/weaknesses.

[Ryknow]

Your first formation is very similar to one I used and posted in the counter attacking thread. However, the Advanced forward will rarely work, and should be changed to DLF(s), False nine, Complete forward (s) or target man (s). Of all of them I prefer DLF(s) with good passing as he'll drop deeper and play in the inside forward (LW) or AP(a).

You're playing attacking mentality against the big teams? Have you tried counter and remove play out of defence? Sometimes against superior opposition it's best to not pass out from the back, especially if they're good at pressing. Might also remove play deeper if on counter, but you'll need to watch the game to see if you're dropping too deep for your liking.

I'd remove the DM ball winning midfielder mainly because I prefer more static players in that role. The BWM will close down and might not make the correct decision and leave your CBs open to an attack. Anchorman (despite the issue with match ratings) is such a fantastic role. Always assisted my CBs when I use that formation.

Could always test with changing the CM(a) to a AP(a) and see what differences it makes. Or the BBM to a DLP(s). In my long stint with 4-1-2-2-1, I found the combo of AP(a)-DLP(s) with an Anchor(d) behind them to be hugely effective. The DLP would hover just ahead of the anchorman and start the play for the AP to run with the ball and connect up to the DLF.

Moving your AMR/AML to the RM/LM should work well, however I've never tried it, mainly because my side revolves around really good AMR/Ls, which are basically strikers so rarely are accomplished at RM/LM.

[mattmccready]

I've started having different sets of shouts for playing against better opposition.

Again weaker/similar I use a high block, hassle opponents etc.....

Against stronger teams a medium block, stay on feet, more disciplined etc.... Maybe knock any attacking fullbacks to support....

May be worth a try.

[peleJunior]

I've started having different sets of shouts for playing against better opposition.

Again weaker/similar I use a high block, hassle opponents etc.....

Against stronger teams a medium block, stay on feet, more disciplined etc.... Maybe knock any attacking fullbacks to support....

May be worth a try.

This is basically how I play; 3 different shouts 1 strategy/philosophy. The aggressive shouts, the middle of the road shouts and the keep shape don't give anything away shouts. When I switch between them is dependant on how the match is going. When I am really not lazy I change some roles to suit the aggressive/normal/defensive shouts but not the original duties. Like I might use an anchor instead of BWMd in more defensive shouts.

[AusBlackCat]

A couple of quick answers for you :

- there are no right/wrong mentalities or philosophies. They only dictate your approach to the game and it's much more about how you tweak that to fit your players and the game situation. Basically, I think of the mentalities as a grade of adventurousness, for example : contain=terrified, counter=cautious, control=adventurous, overload=Mad. This scale is much more representative of what happens in the ME, IMO. Then, for fluidity, I would suggest keeping balanced if you don't know what you are doing. It won't make or break your tactic.

- i think your roles are okay. I would consider giving your MR an attack duty, that way he will stay further from your right back and will be more ready to chase long balls (those passes into space). Don't worry, he will still track back and defend when needed. Also, because you play a very aggressive 4141, I would consider making your d-mid maybe just a tad more cautious. Contrary to popular belief, a BWM(d) as lone d-mid is not a tactic breaker, however in more aggresssive setups he might go overboard with his closing down and tackling. Test it, and if that happens, change him to a DM, A or even DLP (with or without PIs to make him pass less risky). Otherwise things seem pretty good. You will have a lot of crazy runs from deep (without ball). But I like that, and if you do too, then great!

- As far as tactical instructions are concerned, two things come to my mind : first, I would like you to explain the thinking behind 'play out of defence'. A lot of people use that TI, for a lot of different reasons, and with all due respect most of them are wrong. So thanks in advance for enlightening me on that.

Second, in some games 'Drop Deeper' might cause you trouble. I guess you might as well have better results with 'Much Deeper'. The reason for this is by going 'aggressive' (which is my interpretationof the Attacking mentality), your players will press very high and be relentless in trying to get it back in the opposition's half. Which is not exactly what you want, and that is why you thi k, I should drop deeper, right? Good reasoning, but probably wrong. I have had problems with a similar tactic earlier, because by dropping deeper on Attacking, my players were kind of 'in-between' being very aggressive in the press, or being very cautious and patient. This left my midfielders closiing down opponents semi-aggressively and late... I guess you know what comes next. We got smashed time after time especially against stronger sides. Try both deeper and much deepeer, and see which works better. Also don't pay too much attention to what the TC says about Much Deeper. It won't be the case with your tactic.

- I don't pay too much attention to pass completion rates, especially now that I watch all games in full match and can literally see what is wrong with my players' passing. But yeah, it is probably due to the fact that you are playing very direct. Same as IRL, you can't expect to complete 90% of your passes if you're playing freaking quick and mostly long passes. You could use the Analysis tab to see which players complete (or miss) the most passes and then tweak some PIs from there.

- What I do when the opponent goes more aggressive is totally dependent on the match situation and how they do it. I could tell you that I try to pass short and retain possession a lot with a low tempo, but sometimes the opponent will be so good at winning the ball quickly that I might concede bad turnovers close to my goal, which I don't want. I might tell you that I sit deep, stand off and stay on feet narrowly to force them to play the ball on the flanks, but if they have good crossers and aerial presence in the box, I am playing right into their hands. I could tell you that I switch to my 'counter' ('cautious' to me) strategy which is very tight, but I will probably not get another goal and I might still get hit from a long shot, set piece or a mistake from one of my players. All of the things I have mentioned do sometimes work though. You have to assess the match situation and the opponent's strengths/weaknesses.

Thanks so much for the well thought out and well explained reply, I appreciate it. To answer your question, I have the play out of defence shout because I don't want my defenders to just hack the ball forward and give it away when I'm already sitting deep. Though that reminds me, in a recent FA Cup game against Liverpool I fielded a pretty weak 2nd team against them and they had 9 CCC, 4 of which came from my defenders trying to play out of defence and got caught.

Your first formation is very similar to one I used and posted in the counter attacking thread. However, the Advanced forward will rarely work, and should be changed to DLF(s), False nine, Complete forward (s) or target man (s). Of all of them I prefer DLF(s) with good passing as he'll drop deeper and play in the inside forward (LW) or AP(a).

You're playing attacking mentality against the big teams? Have you tried counter and remove play out of defence? Sometimes against superior opposition it's best to not pass out from the back, especially if they're good at pressing. Might also remove play deeper if on counter, but you'll need to watch the game to see if you're dropping too deep for your liking.

I'd remove the DM ball winning midfielder mainly because I prefer more static players in that role. The BWM will close down and might not make the correct decision and leave your CBs open to an attack. Anchorman (despite the issue with match ratings) is such a fantastic role. Always assisted my CBs when I use that formation.

Could always test with changing the CM(a) to a AP(a) and see what differences it makes. Or the BBM to a DLP(s). In my long stint with 4-1-2-2-1, I found the combo of AP(a)-DLP(s) with an Anchor(d) behind them to be hugely effective. The DLP would hover just ahead of the anchorman and start the play for the AP to run with the ball and connect up to the DLF.

Moving your AMR/AML to the RM/LM should work well, however I've never tried it, mainly because my side revolves around really good AMR/Ls, which are basically strikers so rarely are accomplished at RM/LM.

Thank you for your advice, I might go back to trying the 4-1-2-2-1 again at some stage as I like the way it looks, I just can't ever seem to get it to work.

I've started having different sets of shouts for playing against better opposition.

Again weaker/similar I use a high block, hassle opponents etc.....

Against stronger teams a medium block, stay on feet, more disciplined etc.... Maybe knock any attacking fullbacks to support....

May be worth a try.

Thank you mate, that's interesting actually. I'm going to try it and see how I go.

The changes I've made are changing the RM to a WM (A) instead of (S), the BWM (D) to a DM (D), and my shouts are much deeper defensive line, pass into space, and more direct passing.

For games where I'm favourite I think I'll go with something like hassle opponents, get stuck in, pass into space, more direct passing. Should I add push higher up? Or will I automatically be higher up because of the attacking mentality I have chosen?

For relatively neutral games I'll keep it as it is now

For games I'm not favourite I will try: sitting much deeper, stay on feet, more disciplined, direct passing, pass into space, stick to positions.

[jpcote09]

Thanks so much for the well thought out and well explained reply, I appreciate it. To answer your question, I have the play out of defence shout because I don't want my defenders to just hack the ball forward and give it away when I'm already sitting deep. Though that reminds me, in a recent FA Cup game against Liverpool I fielded a pretty weak 2nd team against them and they had 9 CCC, 4 of which came from my defenders trying to play out of defence and got caught.

Always my pleasure to help out as much as I can. As far as 'Play out of Defence' is concerned, I'm not surprised at all. If your first team defenders are good and composed enough on the ball, then it's all good,but what the instruction actually does is it encourages your back four to play short passes that are more risky than usual. In practice, I have found that thistells your defenders to play like playmakers, only instead of breaking down oppositions' defences, they try to break down oppositions' attackers who are closing them down. Personally, I will only ever use that instruction when I have defenders who are very good and cool on the ball, and when I have very specific tactical goals in mind (example, one of my tactics involves a 442 diamond inviting pressure from the oppponent, then giving the ball to a crazy defensive midfielder who runs with the ball a lot and starts my attacks. in that tactic I use play out of defence).

What I would like to point out to you here is that 'Play Out of Defence' conflicts with 'More Direct Passing'. Not in the TC of course, but I think it probably should. Direct passing will encourage all your players to be more urgent in getting the ball forward when they win it. PLay Out of Defence, quite the contrary. Yes, the TC tells you that it will encourage your defenders to play it short instead of the primitive long ball, but in the end most of your defenders will play it long only when you use 'More Direct Passing'. Otherwise, especially in a 4141, their roles will probably make them look for easier passes anyway. I understand that what you likely want is your defenders passing it to your midfielders, who would then launch the killer balls to your more advanced players. In that case, just do a little test. Try removing More Direct Passing and Play out of defence. It might do exactly that. My current main tactic is a 41221 similar to your 4141 (btw, those two formations are very similar in attacking phase, yet 4141s give more defensive support), I am on Control-Balanced with only two TIs, Higher Tempo and Run at Defence. My defenders have no PIs and they never play long balls, except when they see a really good counterattacking opportunity. So you could test it and see. Or if it works as it is now you can keep it like that too. Whatever floats your boat

For games where I'm favourite I think I'll go with something like hassle opponents, get stuck in, pass into space, more direct passing. Should I add push higher up? Or will I automatically be higher up because of the attacking mentality I have chosen?

For relatively neutral games I'll keep it as it is now

For games I'm not favourite I will try: sitting much deeper, stay on feet, more disciplined, direct passing, pass into space, stick to positions.

Looks pretty good. Do not push higher up on an Aggressive mentality, you will already be high enough and most teams who are unfavoured against you will likely try to hit you on the break, so being too high will leave your half exposed. I would suggest that you watch a couple of games with those instructions on and see if it all works together. If you observe trends in the way the opponents break you down, there will likely be something problematic. If you don't know what that is, come back to us and we'll be glad to help!

[AusBlackCat]

Always my pleasure to help out as much as I can. As far as 'Play out of Defence' is concerned, I'm not surprised at all. If your first team defenders are good and composed enough on the ball, then it's all good,but what the instruction actually does is it encourages your back four to play short passes that are more risky than usual. In practice, I have found that thistells your defenders to play like playmakers, only instead of breaking down oppositions' defences, they try to break down oppositions' attackers who are closing them down. Personally, I will only ever use that instruction when I have defenders who are very good and cool on the ball, and when I have very specific tactical goals in mind (example, one of my tactics involves a 442 diamond inviting pressure from the oppponent, then giving the ball to a crazy defensive midfielder who runs with the ball a lot and starts my attacks. in that tactic I use play out of defence).

What I would like to point out to you here is that 'Play Out of Defence' conflicts with 'More Direct Passing'. Not in the TC of course, but I think it probably should. Direct passing will encourage all your players to be more urgent in getting the ball forward when they win it. PLay Out of Defence, quite the contrary. Yes, the TC tells you that it will encourage your defenders to play it short instead of the primitive long ball, but in the end most of your defenders will play it long only when you use 'More Direct Passing'. Otherwise, especially in a 4141, their roles will probably make them look for easier passes anyway. I understand that what you likely want is your defenders passing it to your midfielders, who would then launch the killer balls to your more advanced players. In that case, just do a little test. Try removing More Direct Passing and Play out of defence. It might do exactly that. My current main tactic is a 41221 similar to your 4141 (btw, those two formations are very similar in attacking phase, yet 4141s give more defensive support), I am on Control-Balanced with only two TIs, Higher Tempo and Run at Defence. My defenders have no PIs and they never play long balls, except when they see a really good counterattacking opportunity. So you could test it and see. Or if it works as it is now you can keep it like that too. Whatever floats your boat

Looks pretty good. Do not push higher up on an Aggressive mentality, you will already be high enough and most teams who are unfavoured against you will likely try to hit you on the break, so being too high will leave your half exposed. I would suggest that you watch a couple of games with those instructions on and see if it all works together. If you observe trends in the way the opponents break you down, there will likely be something problematic. If you don't know what that is, come back to us and we'll be glad to help!

Thank you again mate, you're help has been great. I think I've stumbled upon something that is starting to work which is the 4-1-4-1, only changes I've made from the picture are the RM on (A) instead of (S), and I think I put both full backs on (S) and my BWM is now an A. The shouts I now have are direct passing, pass into space and I think that's it.

I have played a few times against stronger opposition away from home and used the defensive shouts I mentioned above, but I gave away far too many shots, my passing % was 65% and they had far too many scoring chances.

[AusBlackCat]

So an update to my tactic. It has been working quite well, at one stage I won 6 games in a row. Then Tottenham came to the Stadium of Light. I got beaten 4-0 and the scoreline flattered me. They had 18 shots, 10 CCC, and 2 HC. I thought maybe it was just a bad day at the office so I didn't look too much into it - as alarming as it was.

I then scraped past Newcastle 1-0 when really they should have at least drew with me. The next 3 games were away to Liverpool (lost 2-0), Man City(lost 4-0) and Chelsea (lost 6-0).

The Liverpool game I played quite well and it was relatively even, I just didn't take my chances.

The Man City and Chelsea games were like the Tottenham game. Absolutely brutal.

Man City: 18 shots to my 3, 6 CCC to my 0, 4 HC to my 1.

Chelsea: 29 shots to my 3, 6 CCC to my 2, 5 HC to my 1.

I just got absolutely torn apart. On the flanks mostly. Everything I tried failed.

Now it seems my tactic isn't playing anywhere near as well as it was. I don't know if it's just part of the roller coaster ups and downs a season has, or if all of a sudden it just isn't effective.

I'm still on attacking and balanced

Still 4-1-4-1

-------------DLF (s)------------

WM(A) BBM (s) CM (A) WM(A)

--------------A (D)-------------

--FB(S) CD(D) CD(D) FB(S)---

TI:Pass into space, more direct passing, work ball into box.

It's official, this tactic has just turned to utter garbage for some unknown reason. I've watched replays of their chances. It usually comes from through balls between my center backs and full backs, or behind/over the top of my center backs. Plus I'm not creating anything near how I used to...

[Ryknow]

Do you change the mentality against the stronger teams? For instance be more defensive and use counter to drop deeper and break. On attacking your fullbacks will push up more and against superior opposition they'll exploit that. At the end of the day you're Sunderland (1st/2nd season?) so you can't expect to get much against those sides, but could make it much more difficult for them.

Considering your shot tally against those sides, I'd say playing attacking isn't working. Counter should help present clearer chances on the break, but shore up the defence. It did for me anyways. Don't get me wrong, you can be defensively strong and play 'Attacking', but against those sides and with your set up your flanks are probably being exploited.

Your right fullback looks like he won't be getting much help. The CM(a) and WM(a) would likely be running into the same areas. I'd suggest setting the wide man to W(s) if you want to keep that CM(a). This would help cover the RB and stop the players getting in each other's way.

[jpcote09]

In the end, your tactic is effective if it got you some sort of consistent good results, and there is not ONE reason that you are going through a very rough patch. Blaming your tactics alone would certainly be mad.

First, let's take a look at the opposition faced. Spurs, Newcastle, Liverpool, Man City and Chelsea. Those are all teams that 'should' be better than you, and most games are away games, so it's a very hard part of the schedule, especially after getting crushed at home 4-0, which I suspect would have heavily dropped morale amongst the squad. Another thing to consider is that those teams usually have great managers, and great managers are very good at analyzing your team and preparing theirs to exploit your weaknesses when they face you. Especially when you've been having success with a somewhat consistent tactic.

Then again, your tactic is not at fault, but there are things you can do when things are not going your way. Do not trash your tactic altogether, because I'm sure you'll be glad to use it again when your team gets back in form. However, for the moment the guys are not in a good mood and therefore they don't play well, so IMO you have to be careful and maybe go a little more conservative in those instances. I would suggest building another tactic with more cautious instructions.

As for your current tactic, I believe it is okay, but I certainly understand why you ran out of luck against the big guns. Contrary to popular belief, the Attacking mentality can be used against better teams, but you have to be aware of HOW to use it against such opponents. To me, the More Direct Passing instruction is a little bit too much, cause it basically makes you play Route One soccer. This is not bad in itself, but combined with the high defensive line that the mentality imposes, I suspect you will be giving the ball away a lot (either by passing out of bounds, or passing too quickly in the path of a defender), therefore wasting opportunities. Of course, this is emphasized when you play against strong teams, who have great defenders, who possess the ball a lot, who require you to make the most out of every opportunity you have when you get the ball. And it is also emphasized when your players are struggling to play at their best. Starting to see a trend here?

Also, as another person said wisefully, the Attacking mentality will see your players more inclined to go forward at every opportunity, and in the case of supporting defenders this might leave them too high when you do give the ball away, and the opposition might be able to exploit the spaces left open (as mentioned, in your case this would be the fullbacks). Against medium teams your defensive trio might be able to make up for the adventurousness of your outside backs, but against quicker and more technical opposition it will be very difficult.

Maybe you could at least give your MR a support duty so to create a passing pivot down the flank for your CM(a) when he runs from deep. Other than that your tactic seems very good, I would just give some time to my lads to get back in form. And in the meanwhile, I would play more conservatively, even if I am usually reluctant to play conservatively. Sometimes you simply have to do what it takes.

[AusBlackCat]

Makes sense, thanks guys. I'll try make some thought out changes based on your input.