kontermann Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Could be interesting if Brazil somehow end up 2nd in their group. Both Netherlands and Chile will be looking to avoid them Id say its the other way round if you look at how Brazil is playing atm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubenJ Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I think Spain won't be having a lot of the same players though. Might need a refresh. Luckily for them they still are great at all youth levels but still, to come in and play the same way and as effectively as this group is difficultThey were sooo dominant but may revert to being merely excellent. Xavi/Iniesta was really the heartbeat of it so the world was waiting for them to start dropping off I guess Iniesta may stick around, not sure how old. Xavi may fall away. Got some great players but that group they had all came together at the perfect time imo Yeah I don't expect players like Xavi, Casillas, Xabi Alonso etc to still be part of the team in 4 years time. If I were the next spain coach I'd probably drop all the oldies. Players like Iniesta can still make a difference, and there are many young players in the team already. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
football_master_94 Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Don't think Brazil will beat Chile or the Dutch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubenJ Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I think they'll beat the dutch. Still expect Chile to beat the dutch as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astafjevs Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Brazil will beat both. Just because they're not motoring past teams, thrashing them like it's 1970 or something, doesn't mean they're bad. They're getting the job done, like all good teams do. Fully expect to see them in at least the semi-finals, and probably the final. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
football_master_94 Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Beat both based on what? You can't be predicting some massed improvement in performance when they've put in two well below par performances. They won't suddenly become good overnight and start doing well, particularly when they come up against better opposition (i.e. one of the two Group B sides). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Cartman Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Brazil will beat both. Just because they're not motoring past teams, thrashing them like it's 1970 or something, doesn't mean they're bad. They're getting the job done, like all good teams do. Would hardly call help from the ref and a 0-0 draw getting the job done Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigcwwe Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Brazil will beat both. Just because they're not motoring past teams, thrashing them like it's 1970 or something, doesn't mean they're bad. They're getting the job done, like all good teams do. Fully expect to see them in at least the semi-finals, and probably the final. Not sure what Brazil games you've been watching but they have been poor really in the first two games. Don't expect them to get much better either. They will thrash Cameroon though and that will give them a little boost for the KO stages but they won't power past teams as they have done in the past. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzler Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Brazil will beat both. Just because they're not motoring past teams, thrashing them like it's 1970 or something, doesn't mean they're bad. They're getting the job done, like all good teams do. Fully expect to see them in at least the semi-finals, and probably the final. Get past this tricky Last 16 tie and I think they'll be semis or final I thought they'd win it from way back although they haven't been great they'll probably still get a 1-0 along the way or rise to it in the big games, perhaps Once we know where Brazil will finish in their group, likely top then it's up to the ref to produce a ridiculous red card for a Dutch or Chilean player So, see ya Robben or Vidal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astafjevs Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Beat both based on what? You can't be predicting some massed improvement in performance when they've put in two well below par performances. They won't suddenly become good overnight and start doing well, particularly when they come up against better opposition (i.e. one of the two Group B sides). I've seen Italy do this more than enough times, so I can. Beat both based on the fact they have better players, they're a better team, and I don't actually think they're playing that badly. Not sure what Brazil games you've been watching but they have been poor really in the first two games. Don't expect them to get much better either. They will thrash Cameroon though and that will give them a little boost for the KO stages but they won't power past teams as they have done in the past. What games were you watching? They battered Mexico ffs - everyone raving about Ochoa's performance tells you all you need to know. Where's this idea come from that they were poor? Yeh, they didn't put their chances away, but they created loads. I'd be satisfied, especially against a team with a great record against them. And they were better vs. Croatia too. I actually thought they were better vs. Mexico, the game they drew, than the one they won. They got helped by the ref, sure, but I thought they were on top in the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ234 Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Brazil will beat the Dutch and probably Chile. Brazil struggle to break teams down that is their issue both the Dutch and Chile are quite open and also the latter are a bit short so could be exposed at set pieces. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerber Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 People talking about Brazil poor performances. Don`t see how a almost draw with Australia could be something good. Chile almost draw with Australia too. Can`t see Brazil loosing neither for Netherlands or Chile. Mexico is way better than Australia if you wanna do this kind of comparison. Brazil could win Croatia again any day despite that result. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
football_master_94 Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I've seen Italy do this more than enough times, so I can.Beat both based on the fact they have better players, they're a better team, and I don't actually think they're playing that badly. But that's Italy so it's hard to see how that relates to this current Brazil side? As for the second bit, on paper they might have more 'big names' or whatever than the Dutch and Chile but I think the latter two are the better collective teams. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 1 tournament is hardly going back to times gone by especially after winning 3 on the trot.Look at France, desastrous in 2002 after winning in 98, and in 2006 they reached the final again, with a lot of the same players. Well, that was kind of the point, though, wasn't it? Spain have 'always' had great players and very good teams, but for one reason or another they failed to deliver in the big tournaments. This latest generation has been the exception really. However, they have so many good players and Real/Barca isn't going to start doing truly crap all of a sudden, so they'll probably come back strong at the next crossroad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anti Spiral Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Lack of Puyol and Xavi being old (and Villa being broken) are the main reasons really they've struggled. They've tried to play the same system without 2 of their most influential players, always going to struggle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astafjevs Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 They won Euro 2012 without Puyol or David Villa, tbf. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 But that's Italy so it's hard to see how that relates to this current Brazil side? As for the second bit, on paper they might have more 'big names' or whatever than the Dutch and Chile but I think the latter two are the better collective teams. I don't think it's really fair to say Brazil have been poor, as some above do, but I've not been impressed either. They depend on Oscar and Neymar doing something, and they don't have a striker worth his salt. It's hard to see how a team like that can win the World Cup, unless greatly helped by the home crowd (and referees). Much the same (bar the last part obviously) applies to Netherlands. They look way too fragile at the back and centre to go all the way, and rely on Robben, RVP and a so far poor Sneijder. A team like Germany is much more complete, with no real weak points. They're lacking a proper striker now with Klose aged 52, but Müller has done well in that role before, and has delivered so far as well. Will be surprised if Germany don't reach the semis. Brazil could get there too of course, and at that point anything can happen, but Thiago Silva aside, they look too fragile at the back, in particular with a poor goalkeeper. This Brazil team looks quite poor compared to teams in the past. They still have quality though, and play at home, but I can't really see them winning the whole thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Lack of Puyol and Xavi being old (and Villa being broken) are the main reasons really they've struggled. They've tried to play the same system without 2 of their most influential players, always going to struggle. Since the success of Spain and Barcelona's tiki taka, I think teams have become much better at handling it. Before teams would just sit very deep and hope for a counter, handing the initiative to Spain and hoping to hold out, but now you see a lot more aggressive pressing in midfield with higher defensive lines, and when you're able to do that for 90 minutes, it's really hard to get that nice triangular passing going, probing for holes. I don't think it's just about the players not wanting it as much any more or being over the hill. I think it's probably more about the other teams knowing better how to beat teams playing this way. Having said that, 'losing' a player like Xavi is always going to hurt you, as a guy like that doesn't come about every so often. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pearcey_90 Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 They just lack the legs atm to play the high pressing style they've had huge success on and the style Barcelona play which they adopted. People like Alonso can't press no where near as much as they once use to, likewise when players press them they're not quick enough to deal with it. Couple with a lack of pace, trying to squeeze in an unfit striker not use to the system and an out of sorts goalkeeper it just crumbled all at once for Spain. When the likes of Delulofeu, Isco, Jese, Morata, Koke etc start to become regulars with their youthfulness and energy then Spain will be back to being a force. The team they could potentially put out at Euro2016 if they all kick on is scary. Just for their sake hope they don't do an England and try and keep the old guard around for too long (Xavi, Villa, Torres, Alonso, Cazorla) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbert_o154 Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Much the same (bar the last part obviously) applies to Netherlands. They look way too fragile at the back and centre to go all the way, and rely on Robben, RVP and a so far poor Sneijder. Bit harsh calling Sneijder poor when he just isn't getting the ball. Agree on our massive reliance on Robben and Van Persie, though I'd add that at present we're also heavily leaning on De Jong as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhawk Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Bit harsh calling Sneijder poor when he just isn't getting the ball. Agree on our massive reliance on Robben and Van Persie, though I'd add that at present we're also heavily leaning on De Jong as well. I can see a lot of fans of other teams in this tournament, myself included, going "If only we had a weakness such as this!" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Bit harsh calling Sneijder poor when he just isn't getting the ball. Agree on our massive reliance on Robben and Van Persie, though I'd add that at present we're also heavily leaning on De Jong as well. Perhaps. But he hasn't impressed me so far when he got the ball. Looks half the player he was four years ago. Still a long tournament left, though, so he has time to shine. I know you dicked Spain and they're no mugs despite going out early, but I worry about Netherlands' defence. It looks quite poor and Australia were close to carving you open. At first I figured this was the typical van Gaal gameplan of inviting pressure and murdering them on the counter, and it looked like it worked to perfection on 1-0. But Australia kept threatening, and the Dutch team didn't seem in control at all, at least at times. Still the better team of course, and Australia got a penalty that never was, but you looked vulnerable. Perhaps this is down to the overreliance on de Jong and a relatively inexperienced defence. Still, especially as a United fan, it will be very interesting to see how you do, especially in the knockout stage, and whether van Gaal can surprise and go really far. Robben and RVP look fantastic though, and it's an interesting setup going forward with both seemingly playing as kind of inside forwards on each side without an actual striker. Lots of movement basically, and if the defence and midfield can keep it together and manage to support the attack a bit better, the team can go far indeed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I can see a lot of fans of other teams in this tournament, myself included, going "If only we had a weakness such as this!" Amen. Oh well, as a Dutchman I can only hope that other teams have the same state of mind as those who write the Dutch off after one poor-ish game against Australia, even though it took them a one-in-a-million strike and a fake penalty to get past our defenses. And then there's the fact that Brasil would have to attack us, which is a dangerous thing to do, see Spain. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubenJ Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Past your defenses? You must mean past your goalkeeper, because they got past your defense plenty of times. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Smart-arse They need luck or rather outrageous skill and help to score as did the Spanish. Make of that what you will, underestimate the Dutch all you want Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anti Spiral Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 That's not true. Australia had a couple of other chances, stronger teams would have taken them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubenJ Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Alexis Sanchez will turn them inside out Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 That's not true. Australia had a couple of other chances, stronger teams would have taken them. Would have, could have, should have... they didn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
el sid Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Alexis Sanchez will turn them inside out Until de Jong kungfu kicks him on the head Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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