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Match 7 England V Italy 23:00 BST KO BBC1

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We're really lucky Uruguay lost in retrospect, even a draw and they could be playing an already through Italy on the last game.

This I do not understand, If Uruguay had won then they could afford to take it a bit easier come the England game, they lost and so did England which means both teams have to win the next game.

If anything Uruguay still have the advantage knowing that if Italy win against CR then Italy may play a weakened side in the last game, at the same time CR will still have everything to play for.

It really could not be worse for England how tonights results went.

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Sterling can dribble with good close control and has pace, but apart from that...not a lot else.

:D Who is this guy?

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It really could not be worse for England how tonights results went.

Absolute bollocks.

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and then you lose to Costa Rica :D

costa rica can't beat anybody iirc. diddy country from a diddy fed.

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You guys are worse than English TV. England, England, England. Shut it, it's time for #civjap :p

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wil you still say that after the Costa Rica game?

I'm not saying "lol we easy gon beat ickle Costa Rica," I'm saying "it could not be worse for England" is bollocks, which it is.

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Absolute bollocks.

Tell me how it could be worse?

You lost and the underdogs won, you have to play the team that lost to the underdogs knowing that a defeat sends you home, come the last game the underdogs still have a chance to qualify regardless of what happens now.

If Italy beat Costa Rica they can relax and go through, maybe hands the advantage to Uruguay.

Tell me how tonights results could have been worse for England?

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You guys are worse than English TV. England, England, England. Shut it, it's time for #civjap :p

You do know you are in the England match thread?

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Sterling can dribble with good close control and has pace, but apart from that...not a lot else.

I thought that about Ronaldo in his early days at Man u,not saying Stirling will be another Ron but he could have a lot more in him!

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Tell me how it could be worse?

You lost and the underdogs won, you have to play the team that lost to the underdogs knowing that a defeat sends you home, come the last game the underdogs still have a chance to qualify regardless of what happens now.

If Italy beat Costa Rica they can relax and go through, maybe hands the advantage to Uruguay.

Tell me how tonights results could have been worse for England?

Because we can beat Uruguay? You are aware of that, yeah? :D

We always needed to beat them. If they won today, a draw (and Italy beating Costa Rica) would have probably sent us home (depending on goal difference etc) A draw now and we're still in it (you're right that Italy may not play a full strength team in this situation, but it still won't be easy) but a win would hardly be out of the ordinary. A defeat for Uruguay sends them home too, they're under the exact same pressure as us. If the Uruguay that turned up today turns up when we play them, we can be rather confident of beating them.

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Pukey you are still not saying why it could have been worse.

This is the worst sort of results for England.

It really is.

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Pukey you are still not saying why it could have been worse.

This is the worst sort of results for England.

It really is.

Uruguay winning meant they could afford to draw against us, so them winning would have been worse for us. They're not exactly gonna go for a draw and hope Italy decide to be nice so they can win there.

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Tell me how it could be worse?

You lost and the underdogs won, you have to play the team that lost to the underdogs knowing that a defeat sends you home, come the last game the underdogs still have a chance to qualify regardless of what happens now.

If Italy beat Costa Rica they can relax and go through, maybe hands the advantage to Uruguay.

Tell me how tonights results could have been worse for England?

Surely the underdogs winning is better for us than the team more likely to be challenging for the second qualification spot with us winning?

Also, correct me if im wrong, but if Uruguay beat us, we beat Costa Rica, Costa Rica lose to Italy and Uruguay lose to Italy, then it will be a 3 way tie with the team with the best GD going through dont they?

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Pukey you are still not saying why it could have been worse.This is the worst sort of results for England.It really is.

The results are great for England. Imagine playing Uruguay in a game where they are on 3 points (I.e. they have won tonight), knowing that a win basically sends them through (because Uruguay will be banking on Italy beating Costa Rica). That would leave Italy and Uruguay on six points each.

Would much rather have this scenario, where England are still in it even if they draw.

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Pukey you are still not saying why it could have been worse.

This is the worst sort of results for England.

It really is.

It's really not. It actually changes very little. England were most likely going to have to win the next two games anyway. Costa Rica showed that Uruguay are extremely vulnerable to the kind of pace England have, and they are even more liable to be wound up tan ever before. And they have to push that creaky defensive line forwards because they have to win. If the game becomes a trade of blows in attacks vs defence, I back england to win it.

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Is everyone moaning? :D

Thought that was a glorious defeat. We've been crying out for an expansive expressive England team for years, and we finally got a group of players coming through that can actually take the game to the opposition. Beaten by a better more experienced team on the night.

Looking forward to the next campaign already, without Gerrard clogging up the midfield and Rooney consigned to being a bit part player whilst more hungrier players are given their rightful chance.

Completely expect us to beat Uruguay, who were dreadful today.

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Not really, you now face a team, just like yourself that can not afford not to win.

Also come the last game, which I would imagine most thought was an easy 3 points, suddenly you face a team that could qualify for the next stage.

Also using your system you are then depending on an already qualified Italy beating Uruguay.

The point I was making is that if Uruguay had won tonight then maybe they would be more likely to settle for a draw, in this case they will go for the win.

I can not see how it could have been worse for England given they have both teams to play.

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Just in from pub, have to say it was the first time since about 2004 that I've enjoyed watching England play. The main difference in the 2 teams were the Italians were more clinical then us, play like we did tonight in the next 2 games and we'll end with 6 points imo.

Also - do people still think we played 442? :rolleyes:

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Not really, you now face a team, just like yourself that can not afford not to win.

Also come the last game, which I would imagine most thought was an easy 3 points, suddenly you face a team that could qualify for the next stage.

Also using your system you are then depending on an already qualified Italy beating Uruguay.

The point I was making is that if Uruguay had won tonight then maybe they would be more likely to settle for a draw, in this case they will go for the win.

I can not see how it could have been worse for England given they have both teams to play.

Uruguay were bad today, playing like that Italy will beat them, whether they're qualified or not.

And them winning and us drawing pretty much puts us out, so how is that better?

You can't see it being worse because you seem to be ignoring the fact that we're capable of beating both teams :D

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Not really, you now face a team, just like yourself that can not afford not to win.

Also come the last game, which I would imagine most thought was an easy 3 points, suddenly you face a team that could qualify for the next stage.

Also using your system you are then depending on an already qualified Italy beating Uruguay.

The point I was making is that if Uruguay had won tonight then maybe they would be more likely to settle for a draw, in this case they will go for the win.

I can not see how it could have been worse for England given they have both teams to play.

Umm... the fact that Costa Rica can suddenly qualify doesn't change their innate ability. They are still the weakest side in the group. They have should they are a bit better than given credit for, but that Uruguay are considerably worse than expected (unless you watched them qualify, in which case you would know they are largely bang average as a team)

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FFS Pukey, tell me how it could have been worse, don't tell me how England can beat Uruguay, stay focused.

How could the results have been worse?

Unless your answer is Italy could have won 6-1.

This is England's worst nightmare, regardless of what happens from here, this was the worst England could have hoped for.

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Umm... the fact that Costa Rica can suddenly qualify doesn't change their innate ability. They are still the weakest side in the group. They have should they are a bit better than given credit for, but that Uruguay are considerably worse than expected (unless you watched them qualify, in which case you would know they are largely bang average as a team)

I wonder how much I heard that in 2010 while England limped through, seemingly the next team they faced was always the weakest they faced.

Is CR or Uruguay weaker than those teams?

I think not.

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I wonder how much I heard that in 2010 while England limped through, seemingly the next team they faced was always the weakest they faced.

Is CR weaker than those teams?

I think not.

England are considerably better than 2014, and almost an entirely different team. Good one. Point not even remotely relevant.

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England are considerably better than 2014, and almost an entirely different team. Good one. Point not even remotely relevant.

LOl, this is 2014!!

Great,ermm no point.

You are not playing the same sides either...dear God, take a second to think before you respond.

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Is everyone moaning? :D

Thought that was a glorious defeat. We've been crying out for an expansive expressive England team for years, and we finally got a group of players coming through that can actually take the game to the opposition. Beaten by a better more experienced team on the night.

Looking forward to the next campaign already, without Gerrard clogging up the midfield and Rooney consigned to being a bit part player whilst more hungrier players are given their rightful chance.

Completely expect us to beat Uruguay, who were dreadful today.

Uruguay will have to push for the win, and their defensive line is much shakier than ours when asked to play a high line. Or they they will sit back and do little like tonight, and pray Saurez conjures up magic by himelf when he starts. Costa Rica actually have a better system of play.

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LOl.

Great,ermm no point.

You are not playing the same sides either...dear God, take a second to think before you respond.

Yes, but I wasnt trying to make an inane point of comparison to2010. You were :applause: Only the current 4 teams are relevant. No idea why you tried to bring 2010 into it.

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Is everyone moaning? :D

Thought that was a glorious defeat. We've been crying out for an expansive expressive England team for years, and we finally got a group of players coming through that can actually take the game to the opposition. Beaten by a better more experienced team on the night.

Looking forward to the next campaign already, without Gerrard clogging up the midfield and Rooney consigned to being a bit part player whilst more hungrier players are given their rightful chance.

Completely expect us to beat Uruguay, who were dreadful today.

Bliss talking so much sense here.

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Bliss talking so much sense here.

Oddly, its the fact that we were decent that makes it worse for me :D so used to the lack of expression in performances I just shrug off the defeat. Knowing we were capable of winning makes it that much more frustrating, but I look forward to the next two even more now :thup:

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Oddly, its the fact that we were decent that makes it worse for me :D so used to the lack of expression in performances I just shrug off the defeat. Knowing we were capable of winning makes it that much more frustrating, but I look forward to the next two even more now :thup:

Yeah I get that, for me though I've found England games such a struggle for about the last 10 years (especially at tournaments) that just watching a team go out and play like that means I look for ward to the next 2 games. If we play like tonight and lose then I'm OK with that. However, play like that again and I'm confident we'll win both games.

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**** for this tournament, great for the next.

It's been about being competitive for 2016 for the past 10 years+ now. This and the euros in 2 years were always supposed to be part of the learning curve.

In Sterling, we really have some special. Thought it was so brave of Roy to not only start him, but give him a starring role behind the striker. I reckon we'd beat Uruguay quite comfortably if we played like that again. Lugana vs Sturridge will be a hilarious miss match. Not sure what to think of Costa Rica mind, yes they were impressive but Uruguay were so so poor.

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England have no idea how to control a match. The gun ho, all out, brute force, long ball getting knackered tactic does not work.

But it's PASSION!

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Two things that have to change for the next game imo.

Gerrard and Henderson are just not good enough in possession, it's not helping them that they don't really have another midfielder vs the Italian midfield 3 but that's not the right partnership. I would rather play Wilshere even though he lacks some sharpness right now.

You can't play Rooney AND Welbeck out wide it has to be one or the other for Chamberlain if fit or Lallana. Makes even more sense if you are going to persist with Gerrard and Henderson.

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Tell me how it could be worse?

You lost and the underdogs won, you have to play the team that lost to the underdogs knowing that a defeat sends you home, come the last game the underdogs still have a chance to qualify regardless of what happens now.

If Italy beat Costa Rica they can relax and go through, maybe hands the advantage to Uruguay.

Tell me how tonights results could have been worse for England?

Uruguay could have won. As if Uruguay would have taken it easy against England ffs

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Is everyone moaning? :D

Thought that was a glorious defeat. We've been crying out for an expansive expressive England team for years, and we finally got a group of players coming through that can actually take the game to the opposition. Beaten by a better more experienced team on the night.

Looking forward to the next campaign already, without Gerrard clogging up the midfield and Rooney consigned to being a bit part player whilst more hungrier players are given their rightful chance.

Completely expect us to beat Uruguay, who were dreadful today.

This all over. Sort of think if we'd had Ashley at left back we'd have got a draw there though

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Bliss is spot on. That's the best I've seen England play in a tournament in years - since 98 or even 96. We actually looked dangerous going forward and had Italy on the back foot for large parts of the second half - how often have we been able to say that?

Would love Woy to stay as manager for four more years even if we don't make it out of the group - makes a massive difference having a boss with large amounts of international experience and so knows how to setup and prepare a team for the uniqueness of tournament football.

Anyone would think we were the team who lost to Costa Rica yesterday. Italy are pretty good at this football malarkey lads.

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Think we definitely looked dangerous going forward in the 1st half, 2nd half not so much though imo. We saw the same in the Honduras game, that when the other teams sit further back then we can have all the possession in the world but nothing comes of it.

One reason I put it down to was a lack of width, especially down our left. Leighton Baines in the 2nd half attacked like a centre back playing at full back. Couldn't count how many times he'd go so far forward, then basically put his foot on it, turn inside, and dump it off to Gerrard/Henderson or Cahill/Jagielka. It's fine if the wide men in the 3 behind are going to cut inside, but you need fullbacks to then offer width or you're narrowing the pitch so much that their defence is so concentrated in one area, and it's so hard to find a way through. To be fair, Glen Johnson offered it down the right, but his final ball wasn't there.

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No shame in losing 2-1 to Italy, even if there were a few names the average England fan won't have recognised in their squad. I thought we were good for 70 mins going forward and then we got a bit tired and started to run out of ideas.

For me Rooney plays up top or not at all. He's a striker, I've never really liked him in the number 10 role or being pushed out wide. I thought it was quite surprising we didn't bring on Milner on the left to try to give Baines some help to deal with Candreva and Darmian. His energy was just what we needed to neutralise Italy's main source of attacks. I thought it was bananas to bring off Welbeck for Barkley and shift your best playing player (Sterling) for the first 60 odd mins out wide where he saw less of the ball. I don't think we're far from finding the right balance behind Sturridge but for me Roo isn't the answer.

If I was Woy, I'd go for something like this vs Uruguay:

Hart; Johnson, Cahill, Jags, Baines; Gerrard, Henderson; Welbeck, Sterling, Lallana; Sturridge

Hope Sturridge is fit, looked to be limping when he came off. Happy to bring on Wilshire and Barkley to change things up and hope Ox is fit to be a sub as he has looked really good for England in recent games.

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People immediately scapegoating Rooney. That's the England mentality we all know. Enough of that "expectations are lower, there's no pressure now" bs, we knew you were all lying.

Also funny to see the French guy being the only one defending the England side.

He isnt a scapegoat based on this 1 game. He has done feck all for England now for 3 World Cups is it? Yet continues to be picked based on his name and reputation

England tried to play the ball down the middle and run the it into their box far too often. They looked abit dodgy on crosses yet didnt put enough decent ones into the box

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If I was England's manager I would:

1. Not drop Rooney

2. Play him somewhere he doesn't need to defend.

Really, he is a great forward, I don't understand why it's such a problem to play him as a striker. It's a waste asking him to track back. I don't see Ibrahimovic or Messi defending.

Funnily, this issue reminds me of the time Italy had the same problem, finding some place to put Baggio, Zola, Del Piero, or Totti. Not any more, now Pirlo runs the show alone, the rest are 'work horses'.

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This is England's worst nightmare, regardless of what happens from here, this was the worst England could have hoped for.

Uruguay winning would have been worse...

Unless you mean out of the three options, win, lose or draw, that this is the worst result. :brock:

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I think the calls to drop Rooney are actually quite a positive. He's not done THAT much wrong yet we for once have options that are actually performing.

I wouldn't drop Rooney, but I would want to play him in his position. There is no doubting last night however that you shouldn't drop Sturridge, Sterling or Welbeck - all three had good games (Sturridge less so).

It then comes to the argument of Rooney or Sturridge in the "number 9". For me on form that has to be Sturridge.

The best solution I can think of is the one everybody thought would happen - which is Rooney in the '10' with Sterling and Welbeck on either wing. Rooney needs to be central.

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