Will you be keeping the 'tactic' (lol) system for fm15?

[dean66683]

The only way I can be successful in fm14 is by doing my tactic mathematically as oppose to a footballing philosophy. Never had this problem in all fm's/cm's and I do appreciate what you have tried to do by getting us to select the various aspects on how a team can play but for me you have got the description and action to it wrong. I remember when fm14 1st came out all the uproar about the tactic and the ME bugs. You have fixed 99% to an extent but your definitions on the shouts are not near 99%. Yes I can hear the fan boys (I used to be 1), "it's your tactics". Yes damn right it's my tactics and that's my point. I have used similar possession, counter attacking tactics as close to the same as you can get to each game in every series of fm. It strikes me as confusing as to why after 7+ years that football philosophy ive used to build tactics doesn't work. Did you get it wrong with all the other series but right with this 1? Or were all the rest capable tactics and this 1 is floored? I was gonna wait till christmas to buy it this year to save you/me the usual bother of 1 less person complaining about the standard bug at EVERY release that take months to make it playable for the seasoned player. However we cut to the chase and let me know if the tactics/ME will remain the same? At 30 is the game or me past it's sell by date, we shake hands and go our separate ways, or will I be able to enjoy again 1 of my favorite past times I have 'endured many a late nights and whole days on. (yes, maybe I just got lucky with tactics for almost a decade.....).

[podunkboy]

*sigh*...it never gets old...no wait, it does.

[Aidan1991]

I blame the hugely predictable and frustrating match engine.

Regardless if you download a solid tactic or create your own masterpiece, the game is flawed & scripted.

[aderow]

The ME has it's flaws certainly. Scripted it is not.

[Lyssien]

I agree that the ME is not one of the best we have seen, but it is obviously work in progress.

[forameuss]

How exactly does one choose your tactic mathematically?

As for the OP, the ME will never be the same game-to-game, because it's always being improved. In the past there have been some absolutely gaping holes in it - the Diablo tactic early in CM certainly springs to mind - and they were easy to exploit if you wanted to. Then there are the more subtle holes, but holes nonetheless. These can be "exploited" without even realising it. You make a tactic, it's successful, brilliant, but you may still be taking advantage of something in the ME that isn't quite balanced. From version to version, these holes get filled, and the ME gets improved, and yes, sometimes tactics work less well after these updates. Just adapt, rather than throwing all the toys in the world out of the pram.

[eldiablanca]

I don't see any of the problems you see

My main gripe with FM 14 tactics is that after trying so hard to eliminate "super-tactics" from eg FM12 there is now 1 super tactic that nearly every successful AI and human team uses

[milnerpoint]

Is this a thread about the TC or the ME? Im confused.

[llama3]

I blame the hugely predictable and frustrating match engine.

Regardless if you download a solid tactic or create your own masterpiece, the game is flawed & scripted.

Complete and utter rubbish.

[aderow]

Is this a thread about the TC or the ME? Im confused.

My response was directed to Aiden's comment.

[Kriss]

Whatever happened to the paragraph?

[KingEric07]

Whatever happened to the paragraph?

It will be fixed in the next patch

[Kenco]

How exactly does one choose your tactic mathematically?

As for the OP, the ME will never be the same game-to-game, because it's always being improved. In the past there have been some absolutely gaping holes in it - the Diablo tactic early in CM certainly springs to mind - and they were easy to exploit if you wanted to. Then there are the more subtle holes, but holes nonetheless. These can be "exploited" without even realising it. You make a tactic, it's successful, brilliant, but you may still be taking advantage of something in the ME that isn't quite balanced. From version to version, these holes get filled, and the ME gets improved, and yes, sometimes tactics work less well after these updates. Just adapt, rather than throwing all the toys in the world out of the pram.

Exactly, this is probably where the OP is going wrong. For years he's been accidently exploiting the tactics rather than understanding how they work.

I'd love to see how he does it mathematically too.

[HUNT3R]

I think the phrasing of the mentalities (and their descriptions) should be improved. I see people failing constantly because they're using an attacking mentality because they're a big team, favourites to win and the description tells them that's what they should choose. The ME has improved in this regard where "weak" teams will now drop deep and soak up pressure so trying to pick a lock with a hammer (Attacking) won't really be successful. The descriptions need to be updated.

[dean66683]

*Mathematically= finding faults in the game and using it to my advantage. Playing the odds. Of course anyone who does that really shouldn't bother playing the game...........

[forameuss]

Exactly, this is probably where the OP is going wrong. For years he's been accidently exploiting the tactics rather than understanding how they work.

I'd love to see how he does it mathematically too.

I'd add to my post that I'm not going "lol cheatar!". Calling it an exploit isn't quite right, like you say, it's often accidental.

I would then add (yeah, another) that I often can't understand the argument "it worked in x versions before this one, why not now?". It's a different game each time, if it worked in more than one version, then great, but you can't expect it to. Especially in FM14, which is a massive difference to the previous one.

[dean66683]

@ Hunt3r.That is a very good observation of one of the problems. Somethings in the game are 2-3 games old easy.

[dean66683]

Indeed @forameuss the game does change every year. However football irl only changes every so slightly every decade. You helped make my point that the game does change every year and yet for all iv managed to adjust my tactics slightly to compensate for that, but this year........

[HUNT3R]

*Mathematically= finding faults in the game and using it to my advantage. Playing the odds. Of course anyone who does that really shouldn't bother playing the game...........

Now you're shooting holes into your OP with this.

If you're finding faults in the game (and by definition the ME) then your tactics will be different every version because not every ME has the same weaknesses. In the OP you state you've used the same counter-attacking tactic for 7+ versions, so which is it?

It could be that you exploited a weakness in the ME for x years and that weakness has now been fixed, causing you to struggle? No-one knows for sure until you actually post this tactic. Until then, we can just speculate.

[dean66683]

The same counter attacking possession, not identical. I build each it time for each game, not just load it up. No holes, your just reading into it more than you need. And no not just the ME, i believe the description on the 'shouts' are inaccurate. Please read what I write and not what you think I have written.

[HUNT3R]

My point remains. Maybe there is a hole in your philosophy.

[forameuss]

So it's another "I'm clearly not doing anything wrong, it must be the game" argument with no intention of actually seeing whether that's true or not?

[Kenco]

The same counter attacking possession, not identical. I build each it time for each game, not just load it up. No holes, your just reading into it more than you need. And no not just the ME, i believe the description on the 'shouts' are inaccurate. Please read what I write and not what you think I have written.

Please can you post actual details about your tactics? Formation, TIs, PIs, Roles, Duties, etc.

Then perhaps the community can help you.

[dean66683]

I didn't ask for help and I don't want help. Iv managed just fine for almost a decade of FM. This was a simple frustrated rant because I believe FM14 tactics/ME is not accurate and I asked 1 question which hasn't/cannot be answered accurately at this time it seems.

[Cometdude]

Disagree with the OP.

I have used different tactics in different versions of FM but never had to change my overall philosophy (attractive, passing football which looks to dominate possession and be defensively sound). Tactics have had to be tweaked, sure (It would be a very boring series if that wasnt the case), but I have never had to change the way I play the game.

I will agree that certain aspects need looking at but none of them are game changes or features I would consider broken.

Adapt and overcome, its the Football Manager way.

[milnerpoint]

I didn't ask for help and I don't want help. Iv managed just fine for almost a decade of FM. This was a simple frustrated rant because I believe FM14 tactics/ME is not accurate and I asked 1 question which hasn't/cannot be answered accurately at this time it seems.

Well you asked several questions, which one do you want answered?

Did you get it wrong with all the other series but right with this 1?

Or were all the rest capable tactics and this 1 is floored?

However we cut to the chase and let me know if the tactics/ME will remain the same?

or will I be able to enjoy again 1 of my favorite past times

[Kenco]

I didn't ask for help and I don't want help. Iv managed just fine for almost a decade of FM. This was a simple frustrated rant because I believe FM14 tactics/ME is not accurate and I asked 1 question which hasn't/cannot be answered accurately at this time it seems.

Maybe if you were a little more receptive to help and a bit more humble, perhaps considering that it just might be your fault and not the game then you might not need to rant and could enjoy it like the majority of us?

I used to think like you; I'd played FM for years and done well, but suddenly a version came along and my team keeps losing, I keep getting sacked. "It can't be me, I'm great so it must be the game, it's broken!" was my first thought. But then I stumble across the tactics forum, see some amazingly in-depth threads and realise I didn't have a clue about tactics compared to them. So I admitted to myself that it must be me getting it wrong and started to learn from others.

Also, as others have said, every FM is different as they continually strive to improve the ME and iron out those exploiting bugs. So something that may have worked for you in one version or many versions will not be guaranteed to work this time.

[YKW]

Lord Awkward has given you a task: you must recreate a famous painting that contains 64 different colours.

The room is dark and only the canvas is illuminated meaning that you can't tell what colour you are using until you paint with it.

Once you have identified a colour you must call out its name according to Lord Awkward's colour chart. Red is "chicken" and Blue is "breadcrumb". (OBVIOUSLY this makes purple "nugget," do keep up.)

You have also been instructed that when your painting is complete it will be scanned into a computer, a process which will mix up all of the colours in a consistent way, but according to rules unknown to you.

Would that be fun? Or would it be tedious, arduous, frustrating and pointless?

[forameuss]

Lord Awkward has given you a task: you must recreate a famous painting that contains 64 different colours.

The room is dark and only the canvas is illuminated meaning that you can't tell what colour you are using until you paint with it.

Once you have identified a colour you must call out its name according to Lord Awkward's colour chart. Red is "chicken" and Blue is "breadcrumb". (OBVIOUSLY this makes purple "nugget," do keep up.)

You have also been instructed that when your painting is complete it will be scanned into a computer, a process which will mix up all of the colours in a consistent way, but according to rules unknown to you.

Would that be fun? Or would it be tedious, arduous, frustrating and pointless?

Well to be fair, if I was given the task, I'd probably shrug and move onto something else. I wouldn't cry and moan that I'd completed all of Lord Awkward's previous challenges, and thus deserved an easier ride in this one. I wouldn't claim that Lord Awkward was clearly biased, and scripted so that anyone attempting it would fail. I certainly wouldn't go on and make an inaccurate metaphor about it all.

But maybe that's just me?

[craigoasis]

I would suggest the issue with the game isn;t the tactics per se, its that it is difficult to actually get the tactics you want to play into the game engine.

I think this could be solved in the next version by having a more intuative "guide" to setting up tactics. More like a "chat" with the assistant manager where he asks what type of football you want to play and then your tactics are designed by this.

I also think that a tactic only works by having the right players in it, for example Barcalona don;t have the players to play in the way Allardyce likes his teams to play, so the assisant would suggest that to play this tactic you then players with good crossing and heading ability for example.

Just an idea.

[YKW]

Well to be fair, if I was given the task, I'd probably shrug and move onto something else.

I agree, yes this is what I have done.

I wouldn't cry and moan that I'd completed all of Lord Awkward's previous challenges, and thus deserved an easier ride in this one.

I am guessing this isn't actually aimed at me seeing as I have never said this?

I wouldn't claim that Lord Awkward was clearly biased, and scripted so that anyone attempting it would fail.

Again, I never said this. Another strawman to strengthen your argument.

I certainly wouldn't go on and make an inaccurate metaphor about it all.

But maybe that's just me?

Actually the metaphor is entirely accurate.

1. I have an objective based on my real life experiences. In the metaphor this is the painting I am supposed to recreate, in FM land it is my tactical vision.

2. Using my tools is the only decent way I have of knowing what the tools are. (aka "the descriptions need updating.")

3. I am relying on somebody else's terminology which doesn't make sense to me, but which can be learned. Just as you can see in my example why purple is chicken nugget.

4. There are unkown and unpredictable variables that can make something that works, not work. Obviously here I am talking about things like morale and tactical familiarity.

5. It is quite clear that Lord Awkward's task CAN be achieved. Just in a needlessly awkward way, (unless you ARE Lord Awkward and designed the task.)

My point is that the combination of these things has made the game, for me personally, not fun to learn. But keep going on about scripted AI and wanting an easy ride if that's what you want, despite the fact that neither of these things affect my enjoyment of the game at all, and I never mentioned them.

Perhaps moving the argument onto the topic of sliders might interest you? Or maybe I could say something which could lead you onto questioning the realism of my inputs? I am easy going.

I would suggest the issue with the game isn;t the tactics per se, its that it is difficult to actually get the tactics you want to play into the game engine.

Do you have any thoughts on why this is?

[forameuss]

I agree, yes this is what I have done.

Good to see it isn't bothering you enough to log onto a forum dedicated to the game and vent your (non) frustrations then.

I am guessing this isn't actually aimed at me seeing as I have never said this?

Again, I never said this. Another strawman to strengthen your argument.

Well given you've clearly never said it, and given the post is clearly extremely general, and not directed at you (which you said once, then talked yourself out of) then...good, I guess?

I would suggest the issue with the game isn;t the tactics per se, its that it is difficult to actually get the tactics you want to play into the game engine.

I think this could be solved in the next version by having a more intuative "guide" to setting up tactics. More like a "chat" with the assistant manager where he asks what type of football you want to play and then your tactics are designed by this.

I also think that a tactic only works by having the right players in it, for example Barcalona don;t have the players to play in the way Allardyce likes his teams to play, so the assisant would suggest that to play this tactic you then players with good crossing and heading ability for example.

Just an idea.

It's along the right lines, although personally I wouldn't have the "chat" idea. It strikes me as a bit odd for a manager to come in, and then talk to the assistant as though he can help you set up the way you want. It SHOULD be the other way around, but obviously that doesn't fit in very well with the problem in FM.

There definitely needs to be more documentation, it's an area I'm surprised they haven't looked at more. With the amount of information already available in game, they could get away with adding a lot more intuitive stuff to help out. Although I'm fairly certain that the way the ME is now, they're reluctant to put too much documentation down because they themselves aren't that sure of it being too accurate.

[milnerpoint]

I would suggest the issue with the game isn;t the tactics per se, its that it is difficult to actually get the tactics you want to play into the game engine.

I think this could be solved in the next version by having a more intuative "guide" to setting up tactics. More like a "chat" with the assistant manager where he asks what type of football you want to play and then your tactics are designed by this.

I also think that a tactic only works by having the right players in it, for example Barcalona don;t have the players to play in the way Allardyce likes his teams to play, so the assisant would suggest that to play this tactic you then players with good crossing and heading ability for example.

Just an idea.

Aye i quite like the jist of that post. Having a chat with the ass man when you have just taken over a club, about how you want the team to play and progress would be great.

Even better would be if the ass man was able to say back something like "well we dont have enough good passers in the middle of the park for what you want, id suggest playing more direct" If you were trying to set up a short passing game with a midfield with a combined passing rating of 5, or he could offer the chance to set up the scouts to go look for players to fit your ideal tactic.

[YKW]

Good to see it isn't bothering you enough to log onto a forum dedicated to the game and vent your (non) frustrations then.

The last thing I am doing here is venting my frustrations. I always make it clear in my posts that my main objective is for people to talk about new ideas for the game, and I am willing to spend hours writing paragraphs of text that very few people will read. That's what I enjoy doing (the coming up with ideas, not the being ignored) and if you hadn't very suddenly over the last month or so transformed from one of the best posters on here into one of the worst then you might have taken the care to remember that.

Well given you've clearly never said it, and given the post is clearly extremely general, and not directed at you (which you said once, then talked yourself out of) then...good, I guess?

You mentioned Lord Awkward and those things in the same sentence, so not "extremely general," unfortunately for you. In the absence of any intelligent point you were clearly using those things to boost your argument, whether they were aimed at me or not. Strawman.

At least you have backed down over your claims of my metaphor being accurate, which is very humble of you.

[milnerpoint]

A decent enough post until the childish dig at the end, shame really.

[forameuss]

The last thing I am doing here is venting my frustrations. I always make it clear in my posts that my main objective is for people to talk about new ideas for the game, and I am willing to spend hours writing paragraphs of text that very few people will read. That's what I enjoy doing (the coming up with ideas, not the being ignored) and if you hadn't very suddenly over the last month or so transformed from one of the best posters on here into one of the worst then you might have taken the care to remember that.

It's worrying that you've concentrated so much on me that you feel I've "fallen so much". Best poster? Worst poster? Deary me...it's like it's a point-scoring exercise or something. I'll be sure to pick up my act, give 110% and aim for those titles once again. I guess I'm just not enjoying my posting recently, maybe I've fallen out of love with the game. It could be anything in this crazy world.

You mentioned Lord Awkward and those things in the same sentence, so not "extremely general," unfortunately for you. In the absence of any intelligent point you were clearly using those things to boost your argument, whether they were aimed at me or not. Strawman.

At least you have backed down over your claims of my metaphor being accurate, which is very humble of you.

It's almost like you can't take someone disagreeing with you. I said it wasn't directed entirely at you, but I guess that isn't enough. Scarecrow, strawman, whatever, if it makes you happy.

Aaaanyway...

Aye i quite like the jist of that post. Having a chat with the ass man when you have just taken over a club, about how you want the team to play and progress would be great.

Even better would be if the ass man was able to say back something like "well we dont have enough good passers in the middle of the park for what you want, id suggest playing more direct" If you were trying to set up a short passing game with a midfield with a combined passing rating of 5, or he could offer the chance to set up the scouts to go look for players to fit your ideal tactic.

They'd have to seriously improve the assistant stuff though to achieve this. Adding the advice was a good move (was it in FM13?) but it's a bit erratic at the moment. A lot of the time they'll say something vague and give you a "make changes" button, but a lot of the time I have absolutely zero clue in what that means. What are you going to change? Why am I here? Why are you saying we're not keeping the ball when we've had more possession?

It would be great if they had it, but it would have to work, and well. Seems a given to some, but it's not that simple. Documentation is badly needed, and that's a lot simpler than coding AI I'd imagine.

[RTHerringbone]

Documentation is badly needed, and that's a lot simpler than coding AI I'd imagine.

I entirely agree with the broader concept of more explicit documentation, but the risk is that if documentation is available which specifically states that action x generates output y, then the ME needs ultimately to be coded to do exactly that.

As the games we watch are a combination of multiple factors and their combined influence on how a match unfolds, it potentially renders some of that documentation redundant as soon as it is issued. If action x doesn't yield output y, but is legitimately because factors a, b and c muddied the water, then it gets confusing. We'd need explicit documentation of all the factors in the game, and their interdependencies and cumulative impacts to get a more holistic idea of what might happen........

[forameuss]

I entirely agree with the broader concept of more explicit documentation, but the risk is that if documentation is available which specifically states that action x generates output y, then the ME needs ultimately to be coded to do exactly that.

As the games we watch are a combination of multiple factors and their combined influence on how a match unfolds, it potentially renders some of that documentation redundant as soon as it is issued. If action x doesn't yield output y, but is legitimately because factors a, b and c muddied the water, then it gets confusing. We'd need explicit documentation of all the factors in the game, and their interdependencies and cumulative impacts to get a more holistic idea of what might happen........

Yeah, I agree. I said this earlier, and have said it before...

Although I'm fairly certain that the way the ME is now, they're reluctant to put too much documentation down because they themselves aren't that sure of it being too accurate.

The ME has become so large and delicate, that documenting it would be at best, an absolute nightmare. The way SI see it (possibly) is that the community do a great job of detailing the ins and outs, so it's far less of a risk to stay out of it.

[MeesterCat]

I entirely agree with the broader concept of more explicit documentation, but the risk is that if documentation is available which specifically states that action x generates output y, then the ME needs ultimately to be coded to do exactly that.

As the games we watch are a combination of multiple factors and their combined influence on how a match unfolds, it potentially renders some of that documentation redundant as soon as it is issued. If action x doesn't yield output y, but is legitimately because factors a, b and c muddied the water, then it gets confusing. We'd need explicit documentation of all the factors in the game, and their interdependencies and cumulative impacts to get a more holistic idea of what might happen........

As someone who loved the old style Microprose manuals that were as thick as your arm, I wouldn't be too disappointed by this....

[themadsheep2001]

As someone who loved the old style Microprose manuals that were as thick as your arm, I wouldn't be too disappointed by this....

But the Poor bod who would have to put it together would be weeping at their desk

Much like the sport it aims to replicate, nearly impossible to cover every angle. best thing you can do is go after the concepts and define them as best as you can.

[RTHerringbone]

As someone who loved the old style Microprose manuals that were as thick as your arm, I wouldn't be too disappointed by this....

Nor would I, but the challenge is that we could all study that book and have a complete understanding of the mechanics of the game, but we'd need to be able to identify in a split second which factors were all in play at that moment, to understand why the output we see, is the output we see.

I think more explicit documentation is required to establish a better knowledge benchmark, but we, as a user base, still need to understand that nothing in the game is binary. How many times do we read posts saying "Why is my striker missing? He has a finishing attribute of 20?" or "Why are we taking long shots? I have selected Work Ball Into Box".

[Lyssien]

The ME probably has changes incorporated into it every day. I don't think it would be practically possible to have a detailed and accurate guide on the ME.

Of course, right now we have a "final" FM14 version in our hands. But I would expect that the guys capable of writing a detailed documentation of the ME have already moved on to the FM15 ME.

EDT:

Also, there is a greek joke where someone meets the Creator and asks him: Why does the world work the way it does? And the Creator answers: I am not sure, tbh.

In such a complex piece of code as the ME must be, I don't think that all that is happening on the pitch can be explained by anyone.

[HUNT3R]

Aye i quite like the jist of that post. Having a chat with the ass man when you have just taken over a club, about how you want the team to play and progress would be great.

Even better would be if the ass man was able to say back something like "well we dont have enough good passers in the middle of the park for what you want, id suggest playing more direct" If you were trying to set up a short passing game with a midfield with a combined passing rating of 5, or he could offer the chance to set up the scouts to go look for players to fit your ideal tactic.

With all the different formations, role and duty combinations, it'd be complicated to code an Assistant Manager who gives you advice on your tactic like this.

What I'd like to see is something general. A advice widget (possibly incorporated into Assman advice or the Tactic Creator) that checks the basics. Lone forward on an attacking duty with no AMC behind? Suggest support duty. One defend duty in midfield. Tactic building basics at least.

[YKW]

It's worrying that you've concentrated so much on me that you feel I've "fallen so much".

So now it is worrying that, on a forum with no avatars or signatures, I might specifically check to see who is responsible for the posts that I enjoy? Sadly, your OP bashing in the other thread was embarrassing, and I was genuinely surprised to see your name to the left. You make no attempt to consider my point, you only try to tar it with stupid generalizations that have nothing to do with things.

It's almost like you can't take someone disagreeing with you. I said it wasn't directed entirely at you, but I guess that isn't enough. Scarecrow, strawman, whatever, if it makes you happy.

Actually you disagreed with me by saying "..making inaccurate metaphors" which was an unsupported statement, and one which you made no effort to explain or justify. And you still haven't, instead focusing on personal insults, even though I have invited you to clarify your statement. Agree or disagree with me you should support your opinions in some way instead of submitting to the culture of this forum and dismissing people's points under an irrelevant umbrella of arguments that have nothing to do with the point made.

Defending your post is laughable.

[themadsheep2001]

Both of you cut the sniping out, its seriously tiresome.

[themadsheep2001]

With all the different formations, role and duty combinations, it'd be complicated to code an Assistant Manager who gives you advice on your tactic like this.

What I'd like to see is something general. A advice widget (possibly incorporated into Assman advice or the Tactic Creator) that checks the basics. Lone forward on an attacking duty with no AMC behind? Suggest support duty. One defend duty in midfield. Tactic building basics at least.

Aye, we've been on the same wavelength about this for some time. Need to get people to understand the concepts of creating something sound, then they can experiment at will. The game currently fails at this, and we need to find a way to incorporate some of the brilliant info on the forums into the game itself. Then the forum can be used for more depth stuff.

[HUNT3R]

Aye, we've been on the same wavelength about this for some time. Need to get people to understand the concepts of creating something sound, then they can experiment at will. The game currently fails at this, and we need to find a way to incorporate some of the brilliant info on the forums into the game itself. Then the forum can be used for more depth stuff.

I agree. I'd like to also like to add that the advice, in whichever way it is incorporated, should explain why it is giving the advice it is. Users need to understand what they're doing and why they're doing it otherwise no-one will learn anything. It'll give them some knowledge and from there, using that knowledge, they could start experimenting or create something more advanced.

[YKW]

Both of you cut the sniping out, its seriously tiresome.

Who is sniping? Read back.

I make an on-topic post trying to relay what I don't enjoy about the current system. At which point forameus replies saying that my post was inaccurate but offers no reason why he thinks this. I ask him to clarify, he refuses and continues to talk off topic, making ad hominem attacks against me and for no reason bringing my character into question.

[HUNT3R]

...and TMS asked both of you to stop. Discuss the game all you want though.

[themadsheep2001]

I agree. I'd like to also like to add that the advice, in whichever way it is incorporated, should explain why it is giving the advice it is. Users need to understand what they're doing and why they're doing it otherwise no-one will learn anything. It'll give them some knowledge and from there, using that knowledge, they could start experimenting or create something more advanced.

Absolutely. We will have to see if the GUI changes much for FM15, but there is actually space to expand on stuff like that inside the TC when you create one from scratch, there is a whole blank area on the left hand side.