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Fenech

Ultimate Stars And Legends Game FM14 (1880's - 2014)

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You guys convinced me he should be at Man United.

I guess Real Madrid will have enough good players.

Real Madrid will have one of the best squads in the game for sure. :thup:

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Real Madrid will have one of the best squads in the game for sure. :thup:

Can't wait for the update to go out!

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Hi Fenech,

was just wondering if you will be making this available through the steam workshop? Looks incredible and cannot wait to play this database. I'm interested in how you go about deciding ratings for individual players, it must take a lot of prep work in terms of accuracy and also how many teams are you planning on covering?

Cheers, Good Luck.

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Hi Fenech,

was just wondering if you will be making this available through the steam workshop? Looks incredible and cannot wait to play this database. I'm interested in how you go about deciding ratings for individual players, it must take a lot of prep work in terms of accuracy and also how many teams are you planning on covering?

Cheers, Good Luck.

I don't know if I will make this available through the Steam Workshop yet. I will certainly be making it available via this thread though. It might be made available through the steam workshop but I will need to look into it more as I've never made anything available through the steam workshop before. Extensive research, Public Opinion, Full Biographies / Histories / Periodic Analysis / Online Sources and Player Caps and Achievements etc. all contribute towards determining the ratings of a player to ensure accuracy and realistic stats / special moves etc.. so that each player who is recreated is as close to that player as can possibly be. All data will be as accurate as it can possibly be. It does take a tremendous amount of prep work, but I don't do half jobs, this will be as close to perfect as it can possibly be before it will be released. I am hoping to be done before the end of this month. All of the Premiership, the return of all the successful clubs in English football, all the top teams in Europe and around the world. More teams than ever before, more legends and stars than ever before. I can't give you a specific number at this stage because this is still in development, but as the project is closer to completion I will get this statistic for you. :thup:

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The club is the world's richest football club in terms of revenue, with an annual turnover of €513 million, and the most valuable sports team, worth €2.4 billion (US$3.3 billion). Real Madrid is one of three founding members of the Primera División which have never been relegated from the top division, along with Athletic Bilbao and FC Barcelona. Real Madrid holds many long-standing rivalries, most notably El Clásico with FC Barcelona and El Derbi madrileño with Atlético Madrid.

The club established itself as a major force in both Spanish and European football during the 1950s. Domestically, Real Madrid has won a record 32 La Liga titles, 19 Copas del Rey, 9 Supercopas de España, 1 Copa Eva Duarte and 1 Copa de la Liga. Internationally it has won a record ten European Cup/UEFA Champions League titles and a joint record three Intercontinental Cups, as well as two UEFA Cups, and one UEFA Super Cup.

We welcome back Santiago Bernabéu Yeste The man who saved Real Madrid, as a player, a president and a leader, they even named the stadium after him!

This is the release of the Real Madrid squad, this may not be the final Real Madrid Squad but it is very close to it.

Director: Florentino Perez

Manager: Miguel Muñoz Mozún

RealMadridCF_SquadPlayers-3_zps70311f5d.png

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La Galerna del Cantábrico (The Gale of the Cantabrian Sea), as he was known, played outside-left and was noted not only for having great speed (he could run 100 meters in 11 seconds flat and was almost as quick with a ball at his feet) but also for his skills with the ball and his scoring prowess from the midfield position. He captained a young side, known in Spain as Ye-yé, because of the popularity of The Beatles at that time. He is regarded as one of Spain's greatest players. Among other honours, Paco Gento won the European Cup a record 6 times with Real Madrid (an unmatched record), scoring 30 goals in 89 European Cup career matches.

Francisco Gento always noted for his impressive speed and prodigious dribbling that left sitting all his rivals. This made him the most dangerous left side of the moment. Not noted for his height, but became the world's fastest extreme. Nobody at the time had his speed. His link up play with Angelo Di Stefano was so devastating that Bobby Charlton called them the greatest players he had ever seen.

FranciscoGento_OverviewProfile-3_zps2962c7a7.png

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The Greatest Manager never to get the England Job! One of a Kind! Old Big Head, Outspoken, Confident, Extreme, with a passionate mindframe, He wanted passing and attacking football and couldn't stand dirty teams and dirty players, he couldn't stand Don Revie in particular who in his opinion won games by cheating, but love him or loathe him, no one could deny his amazing success, who else wins the championship with derby, lasts 44 days with leeds and then wins back to back European cups with Nottingham Forest?

Brian Clough Quotes.

"If God had wanted us to play football in the clouds, he'd have put grass up there." On the importance of passing to feet.

"I wouldn't say I was the best manager in the business. But I was in the top one." Looking back at his success.

"Rome wasn't built in a day. But I wasn't on that particular job." On getting things done.

"He should guide Posh in the direction of a singing coach because she's nowhere near as good at her job as her husband." Advice for David Beckham.

We welcome back, the one and only. Brian Howard Clough (Cloughie)

Cloughie_OverviewInformation_zpsb4d5e4b7.png

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Been waiting to see the Real Madrid squad.

I am so excited to see this roster. Really nice to get remember of all these legends.

I hope you made Roberto Carlos a one hell of a free-kick taker :p

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Been waiting to see the Real Madrid squad.

I am so excited to see this roster. Really nice to get remember of all these legends.

I hope you made Roberto Carlos a one hell of a free-kick taker :p

Yes it is great to see them all again and they will be a great opponent.

I have tested Roberto Carlos and his free kick taking is out of this world.

I couldn't believe what I was seeing, but it didn't seem to matter the distance or the angle, when he hits the ball from a free kick, it's like a rocket launching into the air, the ball is hit with so much power, that it travels at high speeds, and his accuracy is world class, even if the ball does meet with the goalkeeper, the goalkeeper and the ball end up in the back of the net!

He is a joy to watch when he takes free kicks. I would definitely recommend having him in your team. His goals are something else....

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Yes it is great to see them all again and they will be a great opponent.

I have tested Roberto Carlos and his free kick taking is out of this world.

I couldn't believe what I was seeing, but it didn't seem to matter the distance or the angle, when he hits the ball from a free kick, it's like a rocket launching into the air, the ball is hit with so much power, that it travels at high speeds, and his accuracy is world class, even if the ball does meet with the goalkeeper, the goalkeeper and the ball end up in the back of the net!

He is a joy to watch when he takes free kicks. I would definitely recommend having him in your team. His goals are something else....

Oh mate...Now I am drooling to play with Real Madrid!

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Oh mate...Now I am drooling to play with Real Madrid!

I can tell you that it was amazing to watch them all play and at the moment they are media prediction 1st. Of course that might change when Barcelona are released.

Barcelona will be tough opposition, they have not been released yet but they will most probably feature the likes of: Diego Maradona, Luis Figo, Samuel Eto'o, Hristo Stoichkov, Laszio Kubala, Rivaldo, Ronaldo, Riccardo Zamora, Pep Guardiola, Messi...Miguel Angel Nadal Homar (The Beast) and that's for starters, I wont go through the whole team because it is still in the developmental stage, but they will be released soon enough.

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oh you gonna put Ronaldo in Barca? I'd rather see him in white :)

Luckily for Barcelona, he was there before he played in White! Taking another look at him, he may have to go to Inter Milan as that would be in line with the top top (very top) players coming into their prime, he was 22-24 at Inter Milan so I will probably end up shipping him from Spain to Italy, but we will see. He might just stay at Barcelona! :lol:

Either way with Raul, Di Stefano, Santiago, Santilliana and the Vulture, you won't be short of goals at Real Madrid! :thup:

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Luckily for Barcelona, he was there before he played in White! Taking another look at him, he may have to go to Inter Milan as that would be in line with the top top (very top) players coming into their prime, he was 22-24 at Inter Milan so I will probably end up shipping him from Spain to Italy, but we will see.

I'd rather see him play for Milan and not for Barca :/

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I'd rather see him play for Milan and not for Barca :/

If he was 22-24 at Inter, which he was, I may have no choice but to put him in Milan, because every player will at the clubs they were at, at the exact age they were at those clubs, and if he falls under the top top player bracket which I'm pretty sure he does, then he has to be 22 - 24 years of age and this is when he was at Inter Milan, so he will most likely be in that team. For now, he is camping out with Barcelona and his Brazilian buddies there! :lol:

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I'd rather see him play for Milan and not for Barca :/

You could always edit the file yourself when it is released? I think the hard work is putting realistic attributes of the players in the game in the first place. The rest you could tailor to your wants :)

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If he was 22-24 at Inter, which he was, I may have no choice but to put him in Milan, because every player will at the clubs they were at, at the exact age they were at those clubs, and if he falls under the top top player bracket which I'm pretty sure he does, then he has to be 22 - 24 years of age and this is when he was at Inter Milan, so he will most likely be in that team. For now, he is camping out with Barcelona and his Brazilian buddies there! :lol:

haha np!

You could always edit the file yourself when it is released? I think the hard work is putting realistic attributes of the players in the game in the first place. The rest you could tailor to your wants :)

I know mate. I just expressed my opinion to make this topic more alive ;)

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haha np!

I know mate. I just expressed my opinion to make this topic more alive ;)

All opinions are welcomed! Now to find out how to hard code Ronaldo so no one can move him anywhere! Haha (just kidding)

No I find the debate / opinions very useful because there have been instances like when suggested Michael Owen should be at Liverpool instead of Newcastle etc.. where I have had to agree and change the players destination so it's all helpful. Of course it's never going to be perfect but If when it is released and you want to make an edit regarding a certain player then that's simple enough to do as well.. The decision is yours!

I shall keep it realistic so that if a player is 22 15 or 26 or 28 etc.. They are at the club they were at when they were that age.

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Hi Fenech, I'd like to raise some points about the Man Utd squad, I hope you'll take them on board, but I appreciate that you are obviously rather busy re-creating many other legends, so don't feel under any pressure to respond right away.

Just to give you some background, I have been making a United legends database since FM10, so I've spent a lot of time researching how now defunct positions (such as wing half, inside left, etc) translate into the modern game, as well as looking into the individual qualities and attributes of a lot of former United players and staff, so hopefully I can give you some new information!

Duncan Edwards:

His position was listed as 'wing half' and other contemporaries referred to him as a 'centre half'. One thing he wouldn't have been on a regular basis was an attacking midfielder as it was Edwards and Colman's job to transition from defence to attack and to win the ball back if it was lost, that means he would have to have been in the DM or CM strata for the most part, although it is clear from his goals that he often made runs forward too. In modern football, if you need a role with which to build his attributes around, you're looking at a box-to-box midfielder mixed with a half back. Busby said he 'could play anywhere', so obviously his versatility is going to be high and he needs to be able to be at least competent in all positions in defence and midfield.

Bill Foulkes:At 18, he was a right full back, and only developed into a centre back much later in his career. This is partly because United didn't start playing with a back 4 until the mid 1960's, and also because he'd lost a bit of his pace by that point.

Ryan Giggs:

He's got to be an AM/L at 14 years old. Giggs was as classic a winger as you can possibly imagine until he started to lose his pace.

Bobby Charlton:

You've got Bobby on the wrong side! He was a left sided midfielder, not right sided. This is a mistake loads of people seem to make because he was truly two-footed. To give this some credence, this is an extract from 'Sons of United': "During the latter part of the 1950's he was deployed in a wide left position in the England forward-line, where his speed, allied to an ability to cut inside from the wing and unleash ferocious right-foot shots on goal, unhinged many a defence. Starting in the spring of 1960, Busby also favoured using him in that position for a number of years, having initially nominated him as an inside-forward". After that, he went on to become a deep lying forward, so I'd say your positional choice for Charlton should be M/AM (LC), ST

Possible removals:

Paul McGrath: I can see why he is there, but he is definitely more of an Aston Villa legend than Man United. He was shaped by his time in the North, but I think he only truly became a legend when he was playing for Villa.

Owen Hargreaves: I saw the argument above about his pivotal role in United's CL win in 2008... this is true, but a legend is not made in 1 season, he sullied any chance of legendary status with what happened afterwards. I don't think he has any business in this team.

Shay Brennan: Great player, but with Foulkes at right back, you don't really need him any more.

Ole Solskjær: I love Ole, but is he a United legend? He scored the winner in the CL final, but with so many other strikers at United that could deserve a place in this squad, personally I think he misses the cut. (see Denis Law below)

Tony Dunne: He's right up there in the all time list of appearances, but in my mind at least, Denis Irwin is the bigger legend. Dunne was a great player, and pivotal in the 1960's, but for sheer consistency, his set pieces and the love that the fans hold for him, it's got to be Irwin at left back.

Possible additions:

Denis Law: I was really surprised not to see him in the team! If you have a statue of a former player outside the stadium, I think that player has to be considered in a 'legends' list. With Ole potentially out of the picture, the way is clear for The King.

Billy Meredith: This one is a bit left field as he's from the turn of the 20th century, but Billy Meredith was the original Welsh Wizard and a true maverick, you might even say he was football's first celebrity.

Bryan Robson: Kind of how it is with Denis Law, I can't see a United 'all time' squad coming together without Bryan Robson, especially if Roy Keane is on Nottm Forest's books!

Centre back: If you move Foulkes, you're short of a centre back. How do you feel about a potential addition of Rio Ferdinand or Martin Buchan?

Denis Irwin: (see Tony Dunne)

Finally, I don't know what you're going to be doing for backroom staff (coaches, managers, etc), but I have researched those positions as well, so if you need any United coaching legends, just let me know.

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All opinions are welcomed! Now to find out how to hard code Ronaldo so no one can move him anywhere! Haha (just kidding)

No I find the debate / opinions very useful because there have been instances like when suggested Michael Owen should be at Liverpool instead of Newcastle etc.. where I have had to agree and change the players destination so it's all helpful. Of course it's never going to be perfect but If when it is released and you want to make an edit regarding a certain player then that's simple enough to do as well.. The decision is yours!

I shall keep it realistic so that if a player is 22 15 or 26 or 28 etc.. They are at the club they were at when they were that age.

You are right mate. It should be where everyone can discuss about a certain topic. it makes the whole thing much more nicer to everyone.

By the way, why a player such as Varane is listed in Real Madrid squad? he is definitely a brilliant youngster and he is going to be a top defender, but at the moment, in my opinion, he shouldn't be on a legend DB.

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You are right mate. It should be where everyone can discuss about a certain topic. it makes the whole thing much more nicer to everyone.

By the way, why a player such as Varane is listed in Real Madrid squad? he is definitely a brilliant youngster and he is going to be a top defender, but at the moment, in my opinion, he shouldn't be on a legend DB.

Yes you are right, and when the Real Madrid squad is finalised, he won't be in it. He will be a youth at Lens again. :thup:

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Yes you are right, and when the Real Madrid squad is finalised, he won't be in it. He will be a youth at Lens again. :thup:

Cheers! :thup:

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Hi Fenech, I'd like to raise some points about the Man Utd squad, I hope you'll take them on board, but I appreciate that you are obviously rather busy re-creating many other legends, so don't feel under any pressure to respond right away.

Just to give you some background, I have been making a United legends database since FM10, so I've spent a lot of time researching how now defunct positions (such as wing half, inside left, etc) translate into the modern game, as well as looking into the individual qualities and attributes of a lot of former United players and staff, so hopefully I can give you some new information!

Duncan Edwards:

His position was listed as 'wing half' and other contemporaries referred to him as a 'centre half'. One thing he wouldn't have been on a regular basis was an attacking midfielder as it was Edwards and Colman's job to transition from defence to attack and to win the ball back if it was lost, that means he would have to have been in the DM or CM strata for the most part, although it is clear from his goals that he often made runs forward too. In modern football, if you need a role with which to build his attributes around, you're looking at a box-to-box midfielder mixed with a half back. Busby said he 'could play anywhere', so obviously his versatility is going to be high and he needs to be able to be at least competent in all positions in defence and midfield.

Bill Foulkes:At 18, he was a right full back, and only developed into a centre back much later in his career. This is partly because United didn't start playing with a back 4 until the mid 1960's, and also because he'd lost a bit of his pace by that point.

Ryan Giggs:

He's got to be an AM/L at 14 years old. Giggs was as classic a winger as you can possibly imagine until he started to lose his pace.

Bobby Charlton:

You've got Bobby on the wrong side! He was a left sided midfielder, not right sided. This is a mistake loads of people seem to make because he was truly two-footed. To give this some credence, this is an extract from 'Sons of United': "During the latter part of the 1950's he was deployed in a wide left position in the England forward-line, where his speed, allied to an ability to cut inside from the wing and unleash ferocious right-foot shots on goal, unhinged many a defence. Starting in the spring of 1960, Busby also favoured using him in that position for a number of years, having initially nominated him as an inside-forward". After that, he went on to become a deep lying forward, so I'd say your positional choice for Charlton should be M/AM (LC), ST

Possible removals:

Paul McGrath: I can see why he is there, but he is definitely more of an Aston Villa legend than Man United. He was shaped by his time in the North, but I think he only truly became a legend when he was playing for Villa.

Owen Hargreaves: I saw the argument above about his pivotal role in United's CL win in 2008... this is true, but a legend is not made in 1 season, he sullied any chance of legendary status with what happened afterwards. I don't think he has any business in this team.

Shay Brennan: Great player, but with Foulkes at right back, you don't really need him any more.

Ole Solskjær: I love Ole, but is he a United legend? He scored the winner in the CL final, but with so many other strikers at United that could deserve a place in this squad, personally I think he misses the cut. (see Denis Law below)

Tony Dunne: He's right up there in the all time list of appearances, but in my mind at least, Denis Irwin is the bigger legend. Dunne was a great player, and pivotal in the 1960's, but for sheer consistency, his set pieces and the love that the fans hold for him, it's got to be Irwin at left back.

Possible additions:

Denis Law: I was really surprised not to see him in the team! If you have a statue of a former player outside the stadium, I think that player has to be considered in a 'legends' list. With Ole potentially out of the picture, the way is clear for The King.

Billy Meredith: This one is a bit left field as he's from the turn of the 20th century, but Billy Meredith was the original Welsh Wizard and a true maverick, you might even say he was football's first celebrity.

Bryan Robson: Kind of how it is with Denis Law, I can't see a United 'all time' squad coming together without Bryan Robson, especially if Roy Keane is on Nottm Forest's books!

Centre back: If you move Foulkes, you're short of a centre back. How do you feel about a potential addition of Rio Ferdinand or Martin Buchan?

Denis Irwin: (see Tony Dunne)

Finally, I don't know what you're going to be doing for backroom staff (coaches, managers, etc), but I have researched those positions as well, so if you need any United coaching legends, just let me know.

Hi Benny,

Thank you for raising the points regarding the Manchester United Squad and I really appreciate all your feedback. I have taken all the points you have raised on board.

I am in the process of bringing back Burnley at the moment but I am never too busy for good quality feedback! So thank you very much for the raising the great points that you have made. I appreciate that you took the time to make so many valid points.

RE: Duncan Edwards - I have changed his position accordingly and made all the changes you have mentioned. His versatility is very high and he can now play anywhere and is competent in all defence and midfield positions. He is a natural in the DM and CM Strata.

RE: Bill Foulkes Bill is now a right back at 18. He is still competent at Central Defence but his natural position is now Right Back.

RE: Ryan Giggs In line with making the top top players coming into their prime, Ryan Giggs is no longer 14, he is 24 years old instead.

RE: Bobby Charlton Another fantastic point you make and I did have him on the wrong side! He is now a Left Sided Attacking Midfielder (Inside Forward) but he was obviously a natural at AMC as well. I have adjusted his positions accordingly and thanks so much for that report, because I did not come across that in my research reports on him. He is now a M/AM(LC) ST

Possible Removals:

RE: Paul Mcgrath: I wanted to put Paul McGrath at Aston Villa but the reason I didn't was because his prime years were at Manchester United, he only went to Aston Villa when he was 30! It's amazing that he became a legend then in his twilight years. However I have shipped him off to Aston Villa at 30 purely because he is still better at 30 and makes the top 25 Aston Villa players. I will update Aston Villa when I finalise their squad to show Paul Mcgrath at Aston Villa.

RE: Owen Hargreaves I do agree with you that he has no business being there. I don't think Bayern Munich need him at 16 though and with this one, I am going to keep him there, now you can only field 11 players and if he is only one of 25 who doesn't really deserve to be there, he's a lucky boy to be there. lets hope he can give some more good seasons this time around and make up for the fact that he only had 1 good season to his name. (If you really don't want him in there, then just edit him out when the game is released) :) recap: I do agree with you, but he is a lucky boy and he gets to stay there. :lol:

RE: Shay Brennan You are right! With Bill Foulkes at RB, I don't need him there, he only ever started at Man United though, so they have released him and he will be available on a free transfer when the game starts!

RE: The Baby Faces Assassin I do think he is Manchester Legend but I agree with you, I don't think he makes the top 25 legends and stars.... so he is back at Molde, a little bit younger mind...

RE: Tony Dunne He has gone back to Shelbourne in Ireland, You have convinced me to put Dennis Irwin in the Manchester team and therefore he is there, I have given Leeds United Terry Cooper who is a left back legend for them instead.

Denis Law (The Lawman) - In line with the top top players coming into their prime, he was at Manchester United when this happened, so he was always going there! Was it ever in doubt! I was waiting for someone to bring this up! :applause: The Lawman is at Man Utd...

To compensate Manchester City, I have returned Sergio Aguero to them, as he is his prime there and Atletico Madrid have no shortage of great strikers!

RE: Billy Meredith No Chance! He is at Manchester City... He was 32 before he went to Manchester United. He spent his prime days at Manchester City, 12 years there! and so that is where this left sided genius is going to start out. So sorry about that.... (With Primed Cristiano Ronaldo and Primed Ryan Giggs, Can you complain though?) :)

RE: Bryan Robson - OK - he is all yours, the general is back! Enjoy!

I moved Foulkes and I was short of a Centre Back, Rio is out of the Question because I want him for West Ham. However I have brought you back Martin Buchan!

Matt Busby is the manager and I have concentrated on Chairman and Managers, sometimes Assistants and Coaches too, I did it for Brian Clough, I had to give him Peter Taylor as well and I brought back quite a few coaches for Torino too, If you want to give me the low down on man utd coaches, that would be great and I will make sure they are added in.. no bother at all!

All Squads including Man Utd, Leeds and Manchester City have all been updated and this should now be evident in the new screenshots which have replaced the old ones.... Please note though that there will still need to be adjustments made to the Leeds and Man City squads before they are finalised.

Once again Thanks so much for your valuable insight and for taking the time to respond in depth and if you have any more questions or queries, please do not hesitate to ask. :thup:

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Hi Benny,

Thank you for raising the points regarding the Manchester United Squad and I really appreciate all your feedback. I have taken all the points you have raised on board.

No problem Fenech, I'm happy to help and what's the point in doing all the research if I don't share it with anyone? haha.

RE: Bobby Charlton Another fantastic point you make and I did have him on the wrong side! He is now a Left Sided Attacking Midfielder (Inside Forward) but he was obviously a natural at AMC as well. I have adjusted his positions accordingly and thanks so much for that report, because I did not come across that in my research reports on him. He is now a M/AM(LC) ST

You're welcome, and I made the same mistake when I made my first Bobby Charlton too. For some reason it seems to be accepted wisdom that he played on the right, but he didn't! or at least, not long term as his natural position on the field.

RE: Billy Meredith No Chance! He is at Manchester City... He was 32 before he went to Manchester United. He spent his prime days at Manchester City, 12 years there! and so that is where this left sided genius is going to start out. So sorry about that.... (With Primed Cristiano Ronaldo and Primed Ryan Giggs, Can you complain though?)

I wasn't expecting to get all of these, haha, but I won't disagree with Meredith for City! Pleased to see Robson and Law in the squad and although I don't agree with Hargreaves, he's got no chance of any game time with Edwards and Robson ahead of him anyway, so no harm done.

Matt Busby is the manager and I have concentrated on Chairman and Managers, sometimes Assistants and Coaches too.... If you want to give me the low down on man utd coaches, that would be great and I will make sure they are added in.. no bother at all!

I'll do this when I get home tonight. Busby would have admitted himself that he was nothing without his assistant Jimmy Murphy, so he has to go in. I'll put together an 'all-star' Man Utd coaching team for you.

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No problem Fenech, I'm happy to help and what's the point in doing all the research if I don't share it with anyone? haha.

You're welcome, and I made the same mistake when I made my first Bobby Charlton too. For some reason it seems to be accepted wisdom that he played on the right, but he didn't! or at least, not long term as his natural position on the field.

I wasn't expecting to get all of these, haha, but I won't disagree with Meredith for City! Pleased to see Robson and Law in the squad and although I don't agree with Hargreaves, he's got no chance of any game time with Edwards and Robson ahead of him anyway, so no harm done.

I'll do this when I get home tonight. Busby would have admitted himself that he was nothing without his assistant Jimmy Murphy, so he has to go in. I'll put together an 'all-star' Man Utd coaching team for you.

Thanks Benny.

It makes sense that Bobby Charlton played on the left because he was an Inside Forward role, that role works most effectively when you play on the opposite side to your stongest foot. So a left sided inside forward needs to be right footed and a right sided inside forward is most effective if his strongest foot is left. That is what it was describing in the report you quoted.

"During the latter part of the 1950's he was deployed in a wide left position in the England forward-line, where his speed, allied to an ability to cut inside from the wing and unleash ferocious right-foot shots on goal, unhinged many a defence."

In reality he played wide but not so wide that he hugged the touchline like an out and out winger, he was on the inside left rather than outside left, in that he cut inside from the left side of midfield and then smashed his right foot shot towards the goal or create panic inside the box before passing to a teammate to score instead.

Either way he was left sided midfielder who cut inside and was able to use his stronger right foot to create havoc in the box, he was equally good just behind the strikers, running down the centre and scaring the life out of defenders in that way as well! He could probably play anywhere in midfield and attack, his versatility would have been high.

You can always sell Hargreaves if need be and I am sure you have enough money to get someone else in that can maybe provide better competition for places!

Great! I look forward to Jimmy Murphy and the coaching team joining the all-star squad! :thup:

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In reality he played wide but not so wide that he hugged the touchline like an out and out winger, he was on the inside left rather than outside left, in that he cut inside from the left side of midfield and then smashed his right foot shot towards the goal or create panic inside the box before passing to a teammate to score instead.

Yeah exaclty, teams played with 5 'forward' roles in the days before a 4 man defence, so Charlton would have been one of the less wide, wide men, if that makes sense? haha.

Inside forward who cuts inside is spot on though, imo, with the stats to play as a deep lying forward or attacking midfielder as well.

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Yeah exaclty, teams played with 5 'forward' roles in the days before a 4 man defence, so Charlton would have been one of the less wide, wide men, if that makes sense? haha.

Inside forward who cuts inside is spot on though, imo, with the stats to play as a deep lying forward or attacking midfielder as well.

Yes, that's spot on, back in the day they were playing 2-3-5, and he most certainly would have been one of the less wide, left wide men. :lol:

For the purposes of providing a clear example, He would of been playing mostly in the green position which I have highlighted in the image below.

gpx-2-3-5_pyramid_svg_zpsa0830f50.png

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Yes, that's spot on, back in the day they were playing 2-3-5

Actually that's a point to raise, given that most of these old time players would've played before there were 4 at the back, how have you incorporated the tactics?

When I re-create The Busby Babes, I think I used 3-4-3 or 4-2-3-1 in the end.

Looking at those positions, you can see how a 'full back' could have easily adapted to a central defence role.

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Actually that's a point to raise, given that most of these old time players would've played before there were 4 at the back, how have you incorporated the tactics?

When I re-create The Busby Babes, I think I used 3-4-3 or 4-2-3-1 in the end.

Looking at those positions, you can see how a 'full back' could have easily adapted to a central defence role.

I agree with 4-2-3-1. This is my interpretation based on my research so far.

I think it is easy to get confused because today a Full Back is a Right Back or a Left Back with two central defenders in the middle.

In these older days, Full Back - meant (Fully at the Back) i.e Central Defence.

Half Back - Meant Half way towards the back, which in other words was central midfield

Wingers were called: Outside Lefts and Outside Rights

Inside Left and Inside Right was: Left side of Midfield and Right Side of Midfield.

Inside Forwards were: as they are today, but they played much more away from the touchline than the wingers and cut inside.. as discussed.

Centre Forward: Is the same as it is today, no explanation needed.

What happened was the: Inside Left (Left Half Back) was moved from Left of Midfield to Left of Defence and Inside Rights (Right Half Back) was moved from Right of Midfield to Right of the defence and they became the modern day Full Backs. (Full backs or Wing Backs)

The Fully at the Backs became known as the Central Defenders.

One of the Inside Forwards was moved into midfield as an Attacking (Central Midfielder) and the other one was put in the AMC position.

The two wingers dropped further back (nearer to the two central midfielders) sort of alongside the new AMC Position, to either side

The one Central Forward stayed where he is today: Centre of the Attack.

Based on this, I think in most probability, Bobby Charlton would have played the Outside left but tucked further away from the touchline so he can cut inside, as they do today, or he would have stayed in the AMC or Striker position, he probably wouldn't have moved with his position to the Half Back Attack slot as he liked to be much closer to the attack, where he could do the most damage, as Alf Ramsey used him in the 1966 world cup team.

billy4-2-3-1_zps1ef47b47.jpg

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I agree with your conclusion, but not how you got there!

From what I've read, the 2-3-5 was replaced by the WM. In that, the 3 half backs essentially became 2 wing backs and a defensive midfielder, while the inside forwards dropped deeper to become central mids, leaving the centre forward as the 'tip of the spear'.

From there, Brazil/Hungary developed a back 4 to make use of the space left by the rigidity of the WM system and modern tactics as we know them were born. Nothing we can do in FM now really replicates their tactics from the time because football has moved on, but I think 4-2-3-1 works, even if you have to basically lose an attacking player to the 4-man defence in order to make it work.

Also, I think you're right again about Charlton's role, Ramsey's England were known as the "wingless wonders", so Charlton would have definitely been cutting inside, rather than hugging the touchline.

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I agree with your conclusion, but not how you got there!

From what I've read, the 2-3-5 was replaced by the WM. In that, the 3 half backs essentially became 2 wing backs and a defensive midfielder, while the inside forwards dropped deeper to become central mids, leaving the centre forward as the 'tip of the spear'.

From there, Brazil/Hungary developed a back 4 to make use of the space left by the rigidity of the WM system and modern tactics as we know them were born. Nothing we can do in FM now really replicates their tactics from the time because football has moved on, but I think 4-2-3-1 works, even if you have to basically lose an attacking player to the 4-man defence in order to make it work.

Also, I think you're right again about Charlton's role, Ramsey's England were known as the "wingless wonders", so Charlton would have definitely been cutting inside, rather than hugging the touchline.

Yes that's spot on and I agree with that. In effect it's the same conclusion, because two of the half backs became the full / wing backs, and one of them became the half back (defend) role, he could be MC or DMC like Duncan Edwards :thup:

I think you are right because: we cant replicate their tactics in FM today as you said, football has moved on, so we have to be more creative and think of where he would most likely have played given the positions which are available today...

Untitled-1_zpse30af8c4.png

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Yes that's spot on and I agree with that. In effect it's the same conclusion, because two of the half backs became the full / wing backs, and one of them became the half back (defend) role, he could be MC or DMC like Duncan Edwards :thup:

I think you are right because: we cant replicate their tactics in FM today as you said, football has moved on, so we have to be more creative and think of where he would most likely have played given the positions which are available today...

Yeah, same conclusion, but different roles moving around. Doesn't matter though as we're both in agreement anyway. 4-2-3-1 is definitely the logical 'modern' interpretation of 'WM', at least for the AI, the human player can be much more experimental.

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Yeah, same conclusion, but different roles moving around. Doesn't matter though as we're both in agreement anyway. 4-2-3-1 is definitely the logical 'modern' interpretation of 'WM', at least for the AI, the human player can be much more experimental.

Yes, that is true. The Player can be much more creative and experimental with his positioning on the pitch but in essence, the 4-2-3-1 is the natural descendant of the WM formation. :thup:

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Hugh Kilpatrick "Hughie" Gallacher was a Scottish football player in the 1920s and 1930s. In 624 senior games, Gallacher scored 463 times!

A pocket sized footballing phenomenon of natural skill and boundless determination.

Gallacher lacked height and weight. However, he had excellent ball control, guile and instinct, being able to go past opposing defenders with ease. Although a mere 5' 5", he was a handful for any defence as he possessed awesome strike power. Gallacher could shoot with either foot, dribble with the ball, head, tackle and forage. There were four occasions when he scored five goals in a game. He also made chances for other players.

He is one of the Scotland national football team's most prolific goalscorers with 23 goals from his 20 internationals, a remarkable strike rate of more than a goal a game. Gallacher was one of the Wembley Wizards who beat England 5–1 at Wembley Stadium in 1928. 20 caps in those days was well over 100 caps today, due to there being much less international games in those days.

Whilst at Newcastle United, he scored 143 league and cup goals in 174 appearances. His strike rate of over 82% is the most prolific in Newcastle FC history.

A chant reportedly once sung at St James' Park in relation to Hughie went as follows;

"Do ye ken hughie gallacher the wee scots lad,

The best centre forward Newcastle ever had,

If he doesn't score a goal then wu'll put him on the dole,

and wu'll send him back to Scotland where he came from."

We welcome back this sensational prolific goalscoring Scottish footballing legend!

HughieGallacher_OverviewProfile_zpscdc8dabc.png

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Hi Fenech,

As an Arsenal fan I have to make a case for Dennis Bergkamp over Robin Van Persie. To begin with, if we are considering a Legends database in regards to the club then for me Van Persie doesn't fit that mold, not only is he now generally despised among our supporters but even from a neutral point of view, he only had two great seasons with us 2008–09 and 2011–12, which does not warrant in my opinion, legendary status within the club. Most of his career with us, he spent riddled with injury problems and at some points he was accused controversial behavior, he only won two trophies with us, 2004 community shield, in which he came on as a substitute and 2005 Fa cup, in which he did not feature due to injury, he was also an unused substitute in the champions league final that year. Which as you probably know would be his reason for his eventual departure, in his pursuit of trophies. He is however 8th highest scorer in Arsenals history, but those goals never returned a title for us and he never really lived up to his bags of potential.

The Non-Flying Dutchman commands a much higher respect and is without a doubt an Arsenal legend, his performances in an Arsenal shirt captivated me as a child and I guess this one is personal, He is probably my favorite player of all time. I cant argue the fact that he learnt his craft at Ajax and enjoyed some great success with them as well, becoming a teenage prodigy in the process and winning I believe 3 major titles while with Ajax, his hometown club and attracting wide attention around Europe where he would go onto Inter, but those two seasons would be the least fruitful of his career and it's only when he signed for Arsenal that he was rejuvenated and would develop and vastly improve his game under Wenger at Arsenal.

"It was a marriage made in heaven for Bergkamp, who went on to become an Arsenal legend. He spent eleven years with the Gunners, scoring 120 goals in 423 appearances and winning nine titles with the English giants. “Everyone knows that I love Arsenal. I had an absolutely wonderful time here,” said an emotional Bergkamp in February 2014 as a statue was unveiled in his honour outside the Emirates Stadium, where the club play their home games. “I feel honoured and this day has made me very proud.”

"Nobody will ever forget Dennis Bergkamp - and everybody who will play in this position for years to come will be compared to Dennis Bergkamp. As much as Thierry Henry is a top target striker, Dennis Bergkamp as a provider was unique." - Wenger

"Other clubs never came into my thoughts once I knew Arsenal wanted to sign me." - Dennis Bergkamp

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Hi Fenech,

As an Arsenal fan I have to make a case for Dennis Bergkamp over Robin Van Persie. To begin with, if we are considering a Legends database in regards to the club then for me Van Persie doesn't fit that mold, not only is he now generally despised among our supporters but even from a neutral point of view, he only had two great seasons with us 2008–09 and 2011–12, which does not warrant in my opinion, legendary status within the club. Most of his career with us, he spent riddled with injury problems and at some points he was accused controversial behavior, he only won two trophies with us, 2004 community shield, in which he came on as a substitute and 2005 Fa cup, in which he did not feature due to injury, he was also an unused substitute in the champions league final that year. Which as you probably know would be his reason for his eventual departure, in his pursuit of trophies. He is however 8th highest scorer in Arsenals history, but those goals never returned a title for us and he never really lived up to his bags of potential.

The Non-Flying Dutchman commands a much higher respect and is without a doubt an Arsenal legend, his performances in an Arsenal shirt captivated me as a child and I guess this one is personal, He is probably my favorite player of all time. I cant argue the fact that he learnt his craft at Ajax and enjoyed some great success with them as well, becoming a teenage prodigy in the process and winning I believe 3 major titles while with Ajax, his hometown club and attracting wide attention around Europe where he would go onto Inter, but those two seasons would be the least fruitful of his career and it's only when he signed for Arsenal that he was rejuvenated and would develop and vastly improve his game under Wenger at Arsenal.

"It was a marriage made in heaven for Bergkamp, who went on to become an Arsenal legend. He spent eleven years with the Gunners, scoring 120 goals in 423 appearances and winning nine titles with the English giants. “Everyone knows that I love Arsenal. I had an absolutely wonderful time here,” said an emotional Bergkamp in February 2014 as a statue was unveiled in his honour outside the Emirates Stadium, where the club play their home games. “I feel honoured and this day has made me very proud.”

"Nobody will ever forget Dennis Bergkamp - and everybody who will play in this position for years to come will be compared to Dennis Bergkamp. As much as Thierry Henry is a top target striker, Dennis Bergkamp as a provider was unique." - Wenger

"Other clubs never came into my thoughts once I knew Arsenal wanted to sign me." - Dennis Bergkamp

Thank you for raising this and bringing it into my attention more, I appreciate your feedback.

I agree with everything you said. I can't leave him out of an Arsenal Legends Team. I can't include Van Persie and he has not endeared himself to the Highbury faithful.

In light of this, I am convinced you are right and I should have realised this sooner, I probably would have switched him over eventually anyway once I thought about it a bit more but thank you very much for highlighting the matter.

I know that I said before that I wanted him for the Ajax team, but I can live without him being in that squad, they will have an excellent team as I am bringing back the whole Ajax Golden Generation.

I have now updated the Arsenal Squad and put Van Persie as 15 years old at Feyenoord again, I have added Dennis in and updated the screenshot to show the change.

I know I said that Arsenal were finalised, but its never a closed book until the game is released. I am always open to opinions and will consider each one very carefully.

If you have any further points of concern then please do not hesitate to ask! :thup:

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Thank you for raising this and bringing it into my attention more, I appreciate your feedback.

I agree with everything you said. I can't leave him out of an Arsenal Legends Team. I can't include Van Persie and he has not endeared himself to the Highbury faithful.

In light of this, I am convinced you are right and I should have realised this sooner, I probably would have switched him over eventually anyway once I thought about it a bit more but thank you very much for highlighting the matter.

I know that I said before that I wanted him for the Ajax team, but I can live without him being in that squad, they will have an excellent team as I am bringing back the whole Ajax Golden Generation.

I have now updated the Arsenal Squad and put Van Persie as 15 years old at Feyenoord again, I have added Dennis in and updated the screenshot to show the change.

I know I said that Arsenal were finalised, but its never a closed book until the game is released. I am always open to opinions and will consider each one very carefully.

If you have any further points of concern then please do not hesitate to ask! :thup:

Brilliant! Thanks for including him Fenech! he should be very interesting to watch as well in game, what preferred moves did you go with for him?

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Brilliant! Thanks for including him Fenech! he should be very interesting to watch as well in game, what preferred moves did you go with for him?

Moves into Channels

Tries Killer Balls Often

Places Shots

Curls Ball

Likes to Lob Keeper

Plays One Twos

Runs with ball through the centre

Knocks ball past opponent

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Moves into Channels

Tries Killer Balls Often

Places Shots

Curls Ball

Likes to Lob Keeper

Plays One Twos

Runs with ball through the centre

Knocks ball past opponent

I'd say that is pretty much spot on: Likes to Lob Keeper, Places Shots and Tries Killer Balls Often, were the three I had in mind when imagining him in an FM game, nice work!

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I'd say that is pretty much spot on: Likes to Lob Keeper, Places Shots and Tries Killer Balls Often, were the three I had in mind when imagining him in an FM game, nice work!

Yes, I am happy that he is performing in true Dennis Bergkamp style! :thup: He is also bang in his prime too, so you shall start to enjoy him straight away playing at the height of his capabilities.

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I feel if the Real Madrid squad is ready, we can start playing this DB :p

:lol: I can understand that! The Real Madrid Squad are not finalised yet though. I will leave them till last now. haha.

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:lol: I can understand that! The Real Madrid Squad are not finalised yet though. I will leave them till last now. haha.

huuu thats poking the bear :lol:

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huuu thats poking the bear :lol:

Didn't Raul become a legend only when he moved to Schalke? :lol:

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Didn't Raul become a legend only when he moved to Schalke? :lol:

:lol: I hope it comes soooner than i thought :lol:

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:lol: I hope it comes soooner than i thought :lol:

Burnley will be released today.

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I had planned to release Burnley today, however I have posted this squad on a Burnley Forum to see if we can ask the fans who the 25th Burnley player of all time should be.

In the meantime I shall crack on with other stuff and put Burnley on hold for a few days. Just in case there are actually any Burnley fans on here (Apart from Longside) still a bit of a Long Shot. :lol: I thought I'd post this on here as well...

I have 24 players of the best ever Burnley players from 1880's to 2014 and I am looking for one more to add to this squad. Who do you think it should be?

1) Colin McDonald Age: 22 Goalkeeper

2) Adam Blacklaw Age: 19 Goalkeeper

3) Jerry Dawson Age: 19 Goalkeeper

4) John Angus Age: 17 Right Back

5) Brian Miller Age: 18 Right Back

6) Alex Elder Age: 18 Left Back

7) George Waterfield Age: 22 Left Back

8) Tommy Cummings Age: 19 Centre Back

9) Tommy Boyle Age: 26 Centre Back

10) Jimmy Adamson Age: 18 Centre Back

11) Colin Waldron Age: 19 Centre Back

12) Ralph Coates Age: 16 - Right Winger

13: Willie Morgan Age: 16 - Right Winger

14: Mike Phelan Age: 17 - Centre Midfield

15: Bob Kelly Age: 20 - Centre Midfield

16: Jimmy Mcillroy Age: 19 Centre Midfield

17: Martin Dobson Age: 19 Centre Midfield

18: John Connelly Age 17: Right Winger

19: Leighton James Age 17: Left Winger

20: Brian Pilkington Age 18: Left Winger

21: Bert Freeman: Age 26: Striker

22: George Beel: Age 23: Striker

23: Ray Pointer: Age 21: Striker

24: Andy Lochhead: Age 19: Striker

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Have you allready decided who to create for Ajax, Feyenoord and PSV?

Hi, Many thanks for your question.

I know I'm going to bring back the whole of the Ajax Golden Generation, I am open of suggestions as I haven't started on the Dutch clubs yet. I will be doing them soon though.

Any suggestions regarding PSV or Feyenoord are especially welcomed as I wasn't planning to bring those two back but if you can think of a 25 man squad for either of those teams, id be very interested in bringing them back too. I am obviously planning to give them both stars and legends but I wasn't sure about a full squad of 25 for them both, whereas I know I can put together a great 25 man squad for Ajax.

I look forward to any suggestions you have and promise to take all suggestions on board and act upon them. :thup:

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