PMLF Posted June 17, 2014 Author Share Posted June 17, 2014 Four people detained in a anti-World Cup protest in Rio de Janeiro: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenc Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 I don't think that is going to happen, I think they'll go far. But what would you say could happen if Brazil exit early? Would that have an influence? What I don't understand, I've only watched two matches in full so far, but what I really don't understand a single bit: Why don't people in the stadium demonstrate who's really the boss here? This thing is being watched world-wide, and safe for a few seconds where the local and Swiss Bourgeoisie is shown, nothing!? This is their show to show the world and the one area where camera's cant be switched off or away from. But maybe FIFA has priced out the audience for such a thing out of the stadiums already, sad enough. If the Cup had actually been awarded to England for 2018, with English passion for inventing fun chants, I think that would have made for a very fun experience. :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMLF Posted June 18, 2014 Author Share Posted June 18, 2014 I don't think that is going to happen, I think they'll go far. But what would you say could happen if Brazil exit early? Would that have an influence? I think protests will become more visible as Brazilian press doesn't really care much about the other teams, and by being more visible, the protests will spread. What I don't understand, I've only watched two matches in full so far, but what I really don't understand a single bit: Why don't people in the stadium demonstrate who's really the boss here? This thing is being watched world-wide, and safe for a few seconds where the local and Swiss Bourgeoisie is shown, nothing!? This is their show to show the world and the one area where camera's cant be switched off or away from. But maybe FIFA has priced out the audience for such a thing out of the stadiums already, sad enough. If the Cup had actually been awarded to England for 2018, with English passion for inventing fun chants, I think that would have made for a very fun experience. :-) FIFA and the government doesn't really allow any protest during the stadiums and it's not like people who paid a lot for the tickets will want to get expelled from the stadium. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenc Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 FIFA and the government doesn't really allow any protest during the stadiums and it's not like people who paid a lot for the tickets will want to get expelled from the stadium. It's fear and loathing in Maracana then, absurd. That plus that pricing thing, clever, clever. Still, what if thousands would just start singing? Good luck expelling them from the stadiums. :-) Maybe I'm misjudging the situation though and the audience typically going to the games isn't as affected or doesn't care as much either way. It likely isn't as organized as a typical football crowd can be too. Still, the stadiums are the one place where (friendly!) protests by singing chants would be 100% visible, er, audible, that is without heavy technical intervention (see about the broadcasting firm a couple posts above). And unlike 2010, there'd be no sound of 1000 Vuvuzelas being able to cover it all too. Sigh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMLF Posted June 18, 2014 Author Share Posted June 18, 2014 It's fear and loathing in Maracana then, absurd. That plus that pricing thing, clever, clever. Still, what if thousands would just start singing? Good luck expelling them from the stadiums. :-) Maybe I'm misjudging the situation though and the audience typically going to the games isn't as affected or doesn't care as much either way. It likely isn't as organized as a typical football crowd can be too. Still, the stadiums are the one place where (friendly!) protests by singing chants would be 100% visible, er, audible, that is without heavy technical intervention (see about the broadcasting firm a couple posts above). And unlike 2010, there'd be no sound of 1000 Vuvuzelas being able to cover it all too. Sigh. If thousands did, then they certainly wouldn't be expelled but almost impossible to have this level of coordination considering how the tickets were sold. This is more like a theater attendance than a typical football one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenc Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 This is more like a theater attendance than a typical football one. Which, as in England, is likely done on purpose. And not only additional money, but it is well known that by pricing and expelling traditional stands a large part of the traditional working class football audience has been driven away from top flight football in England and rather watches games in pubs now. The same goes for World Cups then: You don't get to kickstart a revolution with an audience like that then. Good for Fifa and the governments. Bad for football, occasionally. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto Club Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 If thousands did, then they certainly wouldn't be expelled but almost impossible to have this level of coordination considering how the tickets were sold.This is more like a theater attendance than a typical football one. As Paulo said, the people that is watching the games maybe even didn't watch league matches. They are there for the party. Mexico fans made more noise than the Brazilians ones. On the other hand, in my opinion, there was a slowdown in protests regarding the Confederations Cup. For example, when Brazil won Mexico in Confederations Cup, in Fortaleza, more than 30,000 participated in protests. Yesterday, there were only 500 protesters in the streets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMLF Posted June 19, 2014 Author Share Posted June 19, 2014 Anti-World Cup protest in São Paulo at the moment: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 It doesn't look very big, but I suppose things can change if/when Brazil go out early? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMLF Posted June 20, 2014 Author Share Posted June 20, 2014 There were about 1,500 people or so. It seems the protests are slowly growing in size. Another pic of today's protests: If Brazil is eliminated, they will probably grow more, if anything because press will focus more on the protests and thus indirectly encourage more people to protest. A protest yesterday (Wednesday) attracted a few thousand people, more than today's protest: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMLF Posted June 20, 2014 Author Share Posted June 20, 2014 I am not sure if counts as a protest or not, but Brazil FA's official site was invaded by hackers today, and for this reason the site was down for a certain period. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMLF Posted June 20, 2014 Author Share Posted June 20, 2014 Protest in Rio de Janeiro tonight: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 What kind of police is that? They look about ready to go to war. Looks like fairly big protests though. A little surprised we haven't heard more about it given the vast number of journalists present, but I suppose they just want to focus on the WC. Suppose it's a bit "bread and circus" right now though, and if Brazil go out early it could get more significant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMLF Posted June 21, 2014 Author Share Posted June 21, 2014 What kind of police is that? They look about ready to go to war.Looks like fairly big protests though. A little surprised we haven't heard more about it given the vast number of journalists present, but I suppose they just want to focus on the WC. Suppose it's a bit "bread and circus" right now though, and if Brazil go out early it could get more significant. This is the military police but they are wearing more war-like gear than they usually do. 11 people were detained, one of them because pointed a laser pointer towards a military police plane. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenc Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Still don't watch much (today only a couple minutes of the Honduras match), but the WC coverage over here is pretty tame in general to say the least. Honestly, they've send a female journalist to Camp Bahia where she inquires Löw's assistant about what he does in the morning when he wakes up and where she gets to uncover Löw's and Bierhoff's taste in music. "How cool is Löw , actually?" is a pretty much direct quote of hers during heir journeys through the jungle. Ugh. But then sports journalists often being little more than PR tools is nothing new, and TV stations play a shitton of money to broadcast the World Cup. It's that much you could class them co-hosters just as well. Shame as there could be much more to tell, and not just about protests. But then you're always endangered to be called a party blooper anyway if you voice some concerns over the nation-wide party that is supposed to take place, please. Protests? I want my Podolski, shut up. But then football's audience has changed significantly ever since the 2006 WC, in particular as far as the two big international summer tournaments are concerned. The biggest "looker" so far was that one of the lads was caught with his mic still unintentionally open post match Ger-Por, inquiring his colleague roughly: "Müller man of the match? Can you confirm? You never know with those (fake) Fifa **** ." What a relieve this was. In particular in between matches everything else appears a bit of analysis, cringeworthy samba cliché and images of the fan festivities at the Copa. I wonder if the German stations are the only ones who have already aquired the rights for (Qatar) 2022 already, eight years in advance. This was announced just a couple days ago, right in the thick of the latest revelations (wonder if there's a connection). This is slave workers (and corruption) readily funded by German public money then. Way to go, football. But then there were tons of Germans who lobbied for that Cup, in particular corporations who knew there was money to make. Corruption in sports looks at some of its roots a very German thing in general. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 What kind of police is that? They look about ready to go to war.Looks like fairly big protests though. A little surprised we haven't heard more about it given the vast number of journalists present, but I suppose they just want to focus on the WC. Suppose it's a bit "bread and circus" right now though, and if Brazil go out early it could get more significant. Police in Cape Town were suited like that all over the Stadium during the WC 2010. I guess it's standard stuff during a WC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 My school German isn't up to snuff any more, so could you try to summarise what he says? Crazy_Ivan, the police has become militarised in a lot of countries, which isn't a good development IMO. This stuff in Brazil is nothing new, it happens all over the place. But it's a bit bonkers to see them come dressed like that for a demonstration. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
georginho_juventusygr Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Police need to defend themselves. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew_ Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Needed those guys during the London riots. Would have stopped it within 10 minutes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenc Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 a bit off topic but svenc, would you elaborate on last sentence? in country where i was born, and i i have lived in various other east and west eu states, i have an impression that germany is perceived as a very clean country regarding corruption. I think it is all a matter of perspective - and standards. You might be curious to read these: http://www.forbes.com/sites/bobbymcmahon/2012/07/15/a-quarter-century-after-his-death-web-woven-by-dassler-still-ensnares-soccer/2/ http://teamhandballnews.com/wordpress/2013/07/the-dassler-connection/ http://www.transparencyinsport.org/Bagman_welcome_at_IOC_congress/Did_Rio_Pay_Bribes/did_rio_pay_bribes.html It is well known that there were some curious things going on with the 2006 bid as well, but this being the Cup of Cups, people would rather not talk about it (and I think Blatter didn't want them to get investigated back then). It's a bit like with the more recent Beckenbauer accusations, without confirming any dubious deals, just saying: Apart of a few investigative journalists, a lot of people likely wouldn't want to experience his bright reputation be tarnished. He's The Kaiser, FFS. What can be confirmed so far of him is likewise a curious conflict in interests. But then he also had a strong connection to Dassler. Everybody is talking "just" about Blatter, but whilst he might have woven a curious web of interconnected dubious people, a lot of "big" guns in the world of football have grown up in that era where certain deals were established in sports in parts and not even considered a bonafide crime under the Swiss law. Another intriguing German former iconic international figure, Günter Netzer, dubbed the "rebel on the ball" during his football playing rather than business making days, is a big figure at Infront, the sports marketing company run by Philippe Blatter -- and also publishes a weekly column in Fifa's own magazine. Naturally, under a Blatter regime, corruption is the least likely to stop ever. However, it might be that Germans wouldn't be the absolute 100% best bet to clean the mess all 100% up all things considered at the moment. Steering this to the topic at hand: Whilst Fifa's arguably quasi "in house" produced TV pictures omit protests (such as the one in the opening-game) and paint a picture book version of the world of football, you can find independent live streams of protests. And somebody conducted a curious experiment. http://www.howlermagazine.com/spectacle-counter-spectacle/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Hardly directly related, but it got me thinking of the speech Jack Gleeson had, the actor for Joffrey in Game of Thrones. He talks about the celebrity culture, and is quite critical of it, having seen and experienced it first-hand himself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenc Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I hadn't noticed as I was talking to friends, but apparently some fans yesterday at Germany-Ghana started booing and chanted "Fifa raus!" (Fifa out!) for minutes at the start of the game, as reported by various news outlets. What had happened? Right after kick off, it is reported that stewards appeared and sacked mostly harmless fans' banners. According to a Twitter post, one looked like this though: https://twitter.com/danielmack/status/480435054796374017/photo/1 Fifa let it be known afterwards that this was a mistake and would not happen again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just-Wool Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I wonder if the German stations are the only ones who have already aquired the rights for (Qatar) 2022 already, eight years in advance. The BBC extended their contract to cover Qatar before the world cup began, the networks won't stop buying the product when there is such a huge audience. (The latest England game for example got 15m viewers for it in the UK, which I think was the most watched event for 3 years) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenc Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 The BBC extended their contract to cover Qatar before the world cup began, the networks won't stop buying the product when there is such a huge audience. (The latest England game for example got 15m viewers for it in the UK, which I think was the most watched event for 3 years) I thought that was more actually, as I'd have expected some of the homelands to watch those games as well. But you're right. Still it's the sour taste of public money funding corruption and slave workers. Not that the former hadn't happened before, but there's no real need for any of these stations to be pushed in the light of the current affairs and aquire the rights eight years in advance. Only public stations funded by, well, us all, can really afford it all anymore. In the current climate, that is nothing else but a public statement pro everything wrong about international sporting events. In the meantime, late night riots in Fortaleza: http://www.zie.nl/profile/Ruptly/overige/Brazil-German-fan-blasts-FIFA-ahole-Sepp-Blatter/jk8zpl1f21ky Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMLF Posted June 23, 2014 Author Share Posted June 23, 2014 A guy in Campinas protested against the World Cup by walking naked, assaulting some professor, destroying a bus and burning the Brazilian national flag. Pretty idiotic even though Brazil shouldn't be hosting this event anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenc Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 (you'll like this is you're a cynic) USA Today about the difference in tone in protests compared to last year's Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenc Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Gotta love this, first they urge Brazil to abolish their laws regarding alcohol in the stadium, and now one of Fifa's officially biggest ****tards is being haunted by images of drunken fans and brawls. http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/brazil2014/fifa-official-amazed-by-brazil-world-cup-drunkenness-1.2694273 Wonder how they'll handle this in Qatar (that is IF...), lol. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMLF Posted July 3, 2014 Author Share Posted July 3, 2014 Gotta love this, first they urge Brazil to abolish their laws regarding alcohol in the stadium, and now one of Fifa's officially biggest ****tards is being haunted by images of drunken fans and brawls. http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/brazil2014/fifa-official-amazed-by-brazil-world-cup-drunkenness-1.2694273 Wonder how they'll handle this in Qatar (that is IF...), lol. Yes, pathetic... By the way: This overpass that is being built for the World Cup has collapsed in Belo Horizonte, at least one dead, 10 injured: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martplfc1 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 ****. That doesn't look good at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMLF Posted July 3, 2014 Author Share Posted July 3, 2014 No doubt several of the works, including stadiums, built for the World Cup will have problems within the next couple of years, as they were done in a hurry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 WTF possessed the Brazilian government(At the time) to take on the Olympics and the WC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMLF Posted July 3, 2014 Author Share Posted July 3, 2014 WTF possessed the Brazilian government(At the time) to take on the Olympics and the WC. Populism (the idea looked better at the time than it looked afterwards) and miscalculation of Brazil's capability to host those events. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1981 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 So that was a new road for the WC? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMLF Posted July 3, 2014 Author Share Posted July 3, 2014 So that was a new road for the WC? Yes, although it wasn't being used as it wasn't completely finished, but it was being built for the WC. The current count is 2 killed and 19 injured. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confused Clarity Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 That truly is awful. Sadly, it was predicted though & actually surprised it took this long into the competition for something that serious to happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I just hope they haven't taken too many shortcuts on the stadiums to get them complete. Would be horrible if something serious happened there with tens of thousands of people inside. Couple that with drunk people and you have a recipe for disaster. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMLF Posted July 3, 2014 Author Share Posted July 3, 2014 I just hope they haven't taken too many shortcuts on the stadiums to get them complete. Would be horrible if something serious happened there with tens of thousands of people inside. Couple that with drunk people and you have a recipe for disaster. Considering what happened with the Engenhão stadium (built for the Panamerican Games in Rio in 2007), whose roof was under risk of collapsing and thus the stadium was closed, you can be sure they did take shortcuts in many WC stadiums too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenc Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 That's terrible. Populism (the idea looked better at the time than it looked afterwards) and miscalculation of Brazil's capability to host those events. Likely also the then president Lula cooperated with the Cartola or at least didn't mind (that is the corrupt South American/Brazil football elite who have hold/held a grip on the game for decades, i.e. Havelange, Teixeira, Marin, some of which had very personal interests for the WC to be held in Brazil, as is now known). At least Lula promised Havelange the opening games of the Olympics to be held in the stadium named after his "honorable" name sake. Even if some of the demonstrators and wider public protesting against Fifa might not be fully aware of the connections, in protesting against Fifa, that is football's governing body too atop the government they are doing the right thing also. I don't find an English article, but this is from a German journalist who follows corruption in sports quite closely, in particular regarding the Olympics and the World Cup: http://www.jensweinreich.de/2013/06/24/pep-pause-die-cartolas-im-fifa-reich-oder-wie-die-wm-2014-nach-brasilien-kam/ He paints the picture of the current World Cup as a long-term plan of former CONMEBOL president Leoz, Havelange, Blatter, Grondona. Teixeira and Havelange have both been found "guilty" anyway, with Teixeira being in exile, as he was shown to have, ahem, benefited loads of such a Cup. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMLF Posted July 3, 2014 Author Share Posted July 3, 2014 That's terrible. Likely also the then president Lula cooperated with the Cartola or at least didn't mind (that is the corrupt South American/Brazil football elite who have hold/held a grip on the game for decades, i.e. Havelange, Teixeira, Marin, some of which had very personal interests for the WC to be held in Brazil, as is now known). At least Lula promised Havelange the opening games of the Olympics to be held in the stadium named after his "honorable" name sake. Yes, he did, Corinthians especially benefited by this, but host cities were chosen mainly for political reasons, nothing to do with football. But for CBF (Brazil's FA) the WC has certainly been good as it helped them get more sponsors, etc.., money they of course will never invest in Brazilian football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confused Clarity Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Actually, may as well ask it here, is there any particular reason that all of the stadia have the fans elevated rather than directly pitch side? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenc Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Yes, he did, Corinthians especially benefited by this, but host cities were chosen mainly for political reasons, nothing to do with football.But for CBF (Brazil's FA) the WC has certainly been good as it helped them get more sponsors, etc.., money they of course will never invest in Brazilian football. Expanding on the Cartola: http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jul/04/son-fifa-vice-president-julio-grondona-humberto-ticket-scandal-world-cup Anybody surprised? *****, *****, *****! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenc Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 If the protests are far smaller than the ones a year ago, it is because the streets are militarized down to the last inch, ruled by a military police force who are tear gassing any group of people who attempt to gather and raise political demands. http://www.thenation.com/blog/180545/world-cup-ends-will-media-tell-truth# Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMLF Posted July 7, 2014 Author Share Posted July 7, 2014 http://www.thenation.com/blog/180545/world-cup-ends-will-media-tell-truth# That is a reason but protests also gone violent last year, with black blocks, etc..., so many potential protesters also were scared off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMLF Posted July 13, 2014 Author Share Posted July 13, 2014 Anti-World Cup protest in Rio today: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weezer Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Is there similar discontent about getting the Olympics too, or are they getting away with it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMLF Posted July 14, 2014 Author Share Posted July 14, 2014 Is there similar discontent about getting the Olympics too, or are they getting away with it? It's less strong and people not as aware about the Olympics yet, I imagine the discontent will grow by the time the Olympics come closer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weezer Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 I guess the 2 bids were independent of each other but it does seem folly for a country with social problems and concerns such as Brazil to attempt to stage the two biggest sporting tournaments in the world within a couple of years of each other. But then, we all know that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMLF Posted July 14, 2014 Author Share Posted July 14, 2014 I guess the 2 bids were independent of each other but it does seem folly for a country with social problems and concerns such as Brazil to attempt to stage the two biggest sporting tournaments in the world within a couple of years of each other. But then, we all know that. Yes, they were independent but back when Brazil bid for both the economy was growing faster and the government was not facing much opposition. Things have changed a lot since then. In any case, it seemed a bad idea anyway even back then, Brazil's governments have a long history of promising things and not delivering. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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