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AndyFal36

The Official England World Cup Thread

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All fine and dandy if you have a good manager in place and he needs time. Roy isn't a good manager, he's failed at every top club he's managed and I am still yet to understand why he was appointed as England manager.

If someone like Rodgers was England boss, then fine, give him all the time he needs to get it right. A 60 odd year old journeyman doesn't have a long shelf life as it is, so was never the right guy for long term England.

But we rarely give any manager time. Capello got no time, McLaren got no time, Hoddle got no time, Keegan got no time. Sven was given time and he has the best tournament record of any manager since Robson, it's really depressing how we overlook this and think that changing the manager at the drop of a hat is going to be a solution.

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But we rarely give any manager time. Capello got no time' date=' McLaren got no time, Hoddle got no time, Keegan got no time. Sven was given time and he has the best tournament record of any manager since Robson, it's really depressing how we overlook this and think that changing the manager at the drop of a hat is going to be a solution.[/quote']

I agree, it's about getting the right man in the first place. Hodgson should never be near a top job in football, never mind the England job. Fabio Capello should have been kept on, however they forced his hand with the Terry thing. Hoddle definitely should never have been sacked, however the FA's politically correct department got involved and it turned out to be about image, rather than results.

Sven was good, some part of me thinks he wanted to do more, but the FA just wouldn't accommodate him. In truth, the FA is pretty poor at their job.

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Hoddle got no time partly because he was sacked due to his remarks though!

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I think Hodgson is a fantastic manager who has got everything right in this tournament. The problem is that the tournament comes 4 years too soon for a significant amount of our players.

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I think Hodgson is a fantastic manager who has got everything right in this tournament. The problem is that the tournament comes 4 years too soon for a significant amount of our players.

His subs have baffled me in this World Cup. Lallana only been giving around 30 minutes in total despite always looking like a threat, Sterling going off before Welbeck last night :confused: If this is a man that has prided himself on giving a youth a chance this tournament, then Jagielka and Baines have to be dropped next game for Shaw/Jones at least. Yet he won't will be same team, at a push maybe Barkley or Wilshere for Welbeck.

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His subs have baffled me in this World Cup. Lallana only been giving around 30 minutes in total despite always looking like a threat, Sterling going off before Welbeck last night :confused: If this is a man that has prided himself on giving a youth a chance this tournament, then Jagielka and Baines have to be dropped next game for Shaw/Jones at least. Yet he won't will be same team, at a push maybe Barkley or Wilshere for Welbeck.

His subs last night were mental.

Take off the two wide players, put on two players who do almost exactly the same thing as Rooney.

Especially when England were only really dangerous through the flanks anyway.

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His subs have baffled me in this World Cup. Lallana only been giving around 30 minutes in total despite always looking like a threat, Sterling going off before Welbeck last night :confused: If this is a man that has prided himself on giving a youth a chance this tournament, then Jagielka and Baines have to be dropped next game for Shaw/Jones at least. Yet he won't will be same team, at a push maybe Barkley or Wilshere for Welbeck.

Giving youth a chance doesn't mean sticking on every single young player on. If there needs to be a major change, it should be a change of shape.

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England are going nowhere until they sort out the central midfield, it's the same issue we have had for over 10 years.

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England are going nowhere until they sort out the central midfield, it's the same issue we have had for over 10 years.

Can anyone actually think of a youngish holding player for England. Because I can only think of Delph right now.

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We do have the issue of over-rating our players though. There's a reason England are 100 times better at World Cup's in FM than in real life. When was the last time we won a big tournament game in real life? Argentina in 2002?

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In the past we've usually had at least one good enough defensive midfielder to cover the more attacking players, at the moment we don't really have any, Westwood Cork etc? Don't know if that's their style of game.

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Delph isn't really a holding player to be honest. He plays box to box while Westwood sits.

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His subs last night were mental.

Take off the two wide players, put on two players who do almost exactly the same thing as Rooney.

Especially when England were only really dangerous through the flanks anyway.

I think you fundamentally misunderstood the issue last night then. We didn't link midfield and attack well partially because of Rooney we needed more players who could play in those areas to make it work

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Hoddle got no time partly because he was sacked due to his remarks though!

Great tactically etc, but the worst man management of any England manager I can remember.

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I think you fundamentally misunderstood the issue last night then. We didn't link midfield and attack well partially because of Rooney we needed more players who could play in those areas to make it work

we linked once Henderson actually had the chains taken off him. In the 70th minute.

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I think you fundamentally misunderstood the issue last night then. We didn't link midfield and attack well partially because of Rooney we needed more players who could play in those areas to make it work

Therein lies the problem, if Rooney isn't linking up well (which Sterling did against Italy) then why succumb to the media pressure of "Having to play him centrally" when he clearly can't do anything but be the point man. (Or he can, he just doesn't want to try)

If he can't play in the position England need him to play, then he shouldn't be playing.

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Things like that are one of the reasons ABEs exist. Before the world cup, we all pretend we're realistic. Then two losses in two close games and all of a sudden Roy needs to go and are team is a disgrace.

It's more disappointing for me as Uruguay were a lot worse than everyone thought when the groups came out. That's why there was a lot of optimism after the Italy game but none now. Regardless of whether it is a tournament building for the future which I personally think is bollocks anyway because of how much squads/form change anyway, we should have been able to hurt their backline way more than we did.

Cartman's team doesn't look bad as an experiment but I would probably keep Hendo in for Barkley as I think he can work for England when he is actually allowed to get forward which he can in a three and Milner/Wilshere will cover more ground defensively as well as offer an attacking threat

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Therein lies the problem, if Rooney isn't linking up well (which Sterling did against Italy) then why succumb to the media pressure of "Having to play him centrally" when he clearly can't do anything but be the point man. (Or he can, he just doesn't want to try)

If he can't play in the position England need him to play, then he shouldn't be playing.

He was stood where rough should have been, about 20 yards off Sturridge, slightly deeper than the wide two, any further back and he starts dropping into the centre circle (funnily enough people used to complain when he did that). The problem is that the 6 were sat so deep there was a disconnect. The massive gap was immediately obvious.

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we linked once Henderson actually had the chains taken off him. In the 70th minute.

Well yeah 4 forwards wasn't ever going to link well. Henderson couldn't move forward and isolate Gerrard unless someone came deeper to help out amongst other issues

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He was stood where rough should have been, about 20 yards off Sturridge, slightly deeper than the wide two, any further back and he starts dropping into the centre circle (funnily enough people used to complain when he did that). The problem is that the 6 were sat so deep there was a disconnect. The massive gap was immediately obvious.

In that case then, if it isn't because of Rooney, then it's more with the coach telling the defence to sit too far back and telling Gerrard and Henderson to protect them. If the line had been 5 yards further forward then there wouldn't have been as much a gap. Problem there though is you have Suarez who'd punish you for putting a high line up with the likes of Cahill and Jagielka in defence.

After all, Liverpool were playing with a similar system all season and we've not had issues with Gerrard and Henderson connecting with Coutinho/Suarez/Sterling when they play in that role, so it isn't as if they don't know how to link the defence and attack through them and the guy playing in the 10 position.

If Sterling was still in the 10 position last night, rather than being out wide with little to no supply then England would probably have looked a whole lot better in attack as he's more willing to find the ball and he's used to Hendo and Gerrard's supply. Unfortunately, Rooney won't then help defend the flanks, so Baines would have been screwed again and England would have been much more vulnerable defensively.

Henderson was too static, told to sit. Henderson can't just sit, his main game is pressure and making up ground. The tactics were fundamentally flawed, which again makes Hodgson just not good enough.

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we linked once Henderson actually had the chains taken off him. In the 70th minute.

That's why the two didn't work, Henderson was having to sit further back to compensate for Gerrard who isn't disciplined. Might have worked with an extra body there but there wasn't, simple.

It's more disappointing for me as Uruguay were a lot worse than everyone thought when the groups came out. That's why there was a lot of optimism after the Italy game but none now. Regardless of whether it is a tournament building for the future which I personally think is bollocks anyway because of how much squads/form change anyway, we should have been able to hurt their backline way more than we did.

Cartman's team doesn't look bad as an experiment but I would probably keep Hendo in for Barkley as I think he can work for England when he is actually allowed to get forward which he can in a three and Milner/Wilshere will cover more ground defensively as well as offer an attacking threat

I get being disappointed. Uruguay were there for the taking, we didn't take advantage and we didn't play as well as we did against Italy. However, we still created chances, we still looked decent for the most part. We lost because we allowed a world class player 2 chances, basically. That was the main difference.

What I don't understand is this massive outpouring of people saying we're a "disgrace" and moaning about "passion" (:D) There's a load of room for improvement, but what happened to us saying this was a transitional period about building for the future and that getting out of the groups would be an achievement?

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That's why the two didn't work, Henderson was having to sit further back to compensate for Gerrard who isn't disciplined. Might have worked with an extra body there but there wasn't, simple.

Yet Henderson and Gerrard work every week for Liverpool together.

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Because you have Coutinho there are well, you don't play 4-2-3-1

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Because you have Coutinho there are well, you don't play 4-2-3-1

We do I guess, but it's much more fluid than the England one so it changes all the time and looks more a 4-3-3 at times.

Either way, England should be doing more of that.

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I love the media after this, suddenly all these people who don't follow football apart from at the WC have a voice and are experts.

Thoughts: we didn't deserve to win or get a point, but could have done so given the chances we had. Rooney was the only player who looked to move the ball at pace while the others went through the motions slowly. Thought Rooney was going to do a Beckham against Greece but he didn't convert his other chances sadly. The other attackers were anonymous, but what a number of people seem to ignore is that Italy just gave England more space to work in. There are plenty of games where a team just sticks men behind the ball and keeps a really good team out, let alone England. We didn't play as we did against Italy because we weren't allowed to, as Uruguay didn't trust their defence as much as Italy. Defence just aren't as good as previous teams, and the reason we were conceding is generally down to the limit in ability of the players.

I would personally have taken Sturridge off, but he then managed to play a key part in the goal, and that is why you keep good players on - they can do that sort of thing even having played badly previously. I don't think England could have played much better had they changed anything though. Ultimately we lost, but bar that period at the start of the second half last night, we were never really awful in either game. It's never nice to lose, but realistically we did ok. Perhaps the only thing I'd question is how useful Welbeck is when you need a goal and space is limited - he doesn't have the required ball control to create openings or dispatch chances.

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We do I guess, but it's much more fluid than the England one so it changes all the time and looks more a 4-3-3 at times.

Either way, England should be doing more of that.

Tbf you also concede 50 goals though. Your brilliant attack makes up for the defence.

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Because you have Coutinho there are well, you don't play 4-2-3-1

We do, Coutinho is just a lot better than Rooney in that position.

Tbf you also concede 50 goals though. Your brilliant attack makes up for the defence.

That's definitely less of a tactical problem and more of a personnel issue.

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It's not a 4-2-3-1 like England's though, if it's even 4-2-3-1 at all. More of a 4-3-3, which is how I would have liked us to shape up.

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It was very 4-2-3-1 when everyone was fit, Sturridge was rarely anything other than an out and out striker, occasionally moving into the channels, and Suarez, Coutinho and Sterling floating around behind and out wide to create.

Henderson got forward more than he does for England though.

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Premiership football is also different than international football

Like you say though England didn't play with a coutinho type player in the hole and don't have Suarez.

Setting up with Rooney, Welbeck and sturridge in the team was a major mistake. I'd honestly only start one if everyone is fit.

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To be honest England unlucky that The Ox was injured and Wilshere has had issues, two players who would definitely have solved a few issues last night if both fit and in form.

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Yeah if the Ox comes good and Wilshire can stay fit for a full season then those two would be great options and would help open defenses up more. Sturridge, Welbeck and Rooney is just never going to work, there is not enough creativity there to break teams down.

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Premiership football is also different than international football

Like you say though England didn't play with a coutinho type player in the hole and don't have Suarez.

Setting up with Rooney, Welbeck and sturridge in the team was a major mistake. I'd honestly only start one if everyone is fit.

Yes agree it only needs one of those at 9,its all unbalanced to me and 2 of them trying to check back and defend in midfield are liabiltys,the team was better with Stirling at 10!

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To be honest England unlucky that The Ox was injured and Wilshere has had issues' date=' two players who would definitely have solved a few issues last night if both fit and in form.[/quote']

Theres also Lallana/Barkley,I hope Woy now use's the last game to give all the younger ones a game including Shaw,I'd give the No9 to Wellbeck just for a change,bench Rooney/Gerrard,cant do much about the defense they just look like cardboard cutouts at times!

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yeah **** it. looking at the squad and given the formation is likely to be the same we may as well go with

---------Hart

Johnson-Cahill-Jones-Shaw

---Henderson-Wilshere

Sterling--Barkley--Ox

-------Sturridge

After the world cup we need to look at centre backs, right back and centre midfield

(this is providing that we are out, as we inevitably will be)

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yeah **** it. looking at the squad and given the formation is likely to be the same we may as well go with

---------Hart

Johnson-Cahill-Jones-Shaw

---Henderson-Wilshere

Sterling--Barkley--Ox

-------Sturridge

After the world cup we need to look at centre backs' date=' right back and centre midfield

(this is providing that we are out, as we inevitably will be)[/quote']

He's got to give the youger ones a game at this tournament it would be a fantastic exp for all,they don't come around again for 2-4 years,not sure about Jones!

He would probably have to change formation idealy to protect defense

I don't think Roy knows what to do so he'll go same again:D

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You'd expect Italy to beat Costa Rica tonight, so if that happens we're still very much in the WC. We should play a team similar to the one you picked there regardless of whether we're out or not, the likes of Gerrard and Rooney have been awful

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This is an ideal opportunity for a Mike Bassett press conference.

"England will be playing Four Four F*cking Two"

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He's got to give the youger ones a game at this tournament it would be a fantastic exp for all,they don't come around again for 2-4 years,not sure about Jones!

He would probably have to change formation idealy to protect defense

I don't think Roy knows what to do so he'll go same again:D

Mate please remove the Liverpool specs and please let it go about Roy. We know he didn't do well for Liverpool, we know Liverpool fans don't rate him, we get it. Now stop.

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You'd expect Italy to beat Costa Rica tonight, so if that happens we're still very much in the WC. We should play a team similar to the one you picked there regardless of whether we're out or not, the likes of Gerrard and Rooney have been awful

Can Hodgson afford to do that though?

If he does and they play well and win 3-0 the press will go after him asking why he didn't start with that team

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---------Hart

Johnson-Cahill-Jones-Shaw

---Henderson-Wilshere

Sterling--Barkley--Ox

-------Sturridge

Turn the midfield into a 4-3-3 and I'd go with that.

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Can we get rid of Johnson please?

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