sean_oc16 Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Just seen quotes from Roy saying he isn't going to resign. Not sure if he's been asked about it or not but it's ridiculous given there is still the possibility (however unlikely) to qualify, don't see how talk like that is going to help at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pukey Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Things like that are one of the reasons ABEs exist. Before the world cup, we all pretend we're realistic. Then two losses in two close games and all of a sudden Roy needs to go and are team is a disgrace. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baptista_8 Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Does Roy give us the best possible chance of winning though? By leaving under-performing big named players on and by shoehorning them in to avoid dropping them, I'd say not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grff Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Does Roy give us the best possible chance of winning though? By leaving under-performing big named players on and by shoehorning them in to avoid dropping them, I'd say not. I think it's just an English philosophy that the best players must play even if they are square pegs in round holes. We've been doing the same thing for 15-20 years.... Joe Cole, Paul Scholes etc being chucked on the left wing, trying to shoe-horn Gerrard and Lampard into the same midfield are perfect examples. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pukey Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Who do we replace him with? There's some decisions that are questionable yeah, but this was always going to be a tough ask. This changes nothing. I'd rather someone else long term, but nothing about this world cup suggests to me he can't be in charge for the next couple of years. Everyone said when the group was drawn how difficult it was. Now we're (nearly) out, all of a sudden he needs to go? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybluedave Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 I won't blame Woy too much. Our team is average and we had a tough group, this was easily a possible outcome. We didn't totally embarrass ourselves. I think Martinez will be our next manager. But not for at least another 2 years. I don't see him at Chelsea, United, Liverpool etc so think the only realistic step up from Everton for him would be England. He understands English football, while having that contitental nous. Pretty sure he'll win WC2018 for us.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Cartman Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Embarrassing all round, it doesn't matter what happens tonight, most of the that team doesn't deserve to play against Costa Rica. Suarez 2 chances 2 goals, Rooney 3 tap in chances, only 1 of them scored, and we're shoehorning this clown into our side STILL Hart Johnson Cahill Jones Shaw Milner Wilshere Sterling Barkley Lallana Sturridge Should be the side against Costa Rica, if Red Cafu was in the squad like he should have been then he'd be in for Johnson but seen as though we can't play people like Red Cafu and Shaw because they don't have the almighty experience, we'll have to stick with what **** we've got. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Cartman Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Took it Sturridge's foot and does that with the whole goal to aim at Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jep Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Anyone congratulated the English Media on their 2 year long assist in creating the Suarez monster which destroyed us? Pretty sure Suarez wouldn't have been so motivated for that game if it were against any other opposition so hats off to the journos and pundits for pouring petrol on Suarez burning desire to take us apart. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anti Spiral Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Thought Jagieka was really poor last night, he was at fault for both goals. Though Cahill should have maybe done better on the second, rather than try and cover Jagiekas position. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcoleman1 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Am yet to see a non-Liverpool fan defend Gerrard. It is slightly unfair to totally blame him for the last goal but if he doesn't attempt such a **** header that ball isn't going where it did. Jagielka should have gone across more with him though. Even it that didn't happen though Gerrard was terrible all game. Don't see why he wasn't taken off, who cares if he's captain he wasn't inspiring anyone and he wasn't playing well. Also don't see why Lampard couldn't come on when we need a goal that badly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggins Top Boys Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Anyone congratulated the English Media on their 2 year long assist in creating the Suarez monster which destroyed us? Pretty sure Suarez wouldn't have been so motivated for that game if it were against any other opposition so hats off to the journos and pundits for pouring petrol on Suarez burning desire to take us apart. sorry but haven't you read this mornings Daily Mail? it's hodgsons fault and he should get the sack! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
football_master_94 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 On a side note, the decision to leave Cole at home is just getting smarter and smarter with each passing England game. Genius move by Hogdson. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Cartman Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Anyone congratulated the English Media on their 2 year long assist in creating the Suarez monster which destroyed us? Pretty sure Suarez wouldn't have been so motivated for that game if it were against any other opposition so hats off to the journos and pundits for pouring petrol on Suarez burning desire to take us apart. Wait, you don't think Suarez would have scored those 2 chances if it wasn't for the justified media hate for him during his time here? :/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcoleman1 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 On a side note, the decision to leave Cole at home is just getting smarter and smarter with each passing England game. Genius move by Hogdson. Thought this as well. I personally think if he'd have had 4 or 5 more games in a row for us at the end of the season he'd have been in. He was immense against Liverpool and At. Madrid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jep Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Wait, you don't think Suarez would have scored those 2 chances if it wasn't for the justified media hate for him during his time here? :/ Well he may well have done, but I am talking about his desire to get fit for this particular game, his desire to fight with all he had to work like a beast to beat us. Read his comments after the game - he was absolutely hell bent on proving the English media and pundits wrong and it fuelled his rage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kawee Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 I think England, moving forward, should just adopt fast direct football. If nothing else, its the most fun you'll get out of your team. You guys have a lot of good athletes. With the likes of Henderson, Wilshere, Sterling, Ox, Walcott, and Sturrdige, that's a lot of running power. Anyone congratulated the English Media on their 2 year long assist in creating the Suarez monster which destroyed us? Pretty sure Suarez wouldn't have been so motivated for that game if it were against any other opposition so hats off to the journos and pundits for pouring petrol on Suarez burning desire to take us apart. You might have a point, but not a big one. One of Suarez's defining characteristic is he plays every game like it's the last game of his life. The man runs on pure unleaded passion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomtuck01 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 No expectations everyone said beforehand, so no idea why everyone is ripping into the side and picking apart every little detail as to why it went "wrong". More positives than negatives this time compared to four years ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Cartman Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Well he may well have done, but I am talking about his desire to get fit for this particular game, his desire to fight with all he had to work like a beast to beat us. Read his comments after the game - he was absolutely hell bent on proving the English media and pundits wrong and it fuelled his rage. It certainly gave him more reason to want to beat us, but it didn't effect his performance one bit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggins Top Boys Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 No expectations everyone said beforehand, so no idea why everyone is ripping into the side and picking apart every little detail as why it went "wrong".More positives than negatives this time compared to four years ago. I think people are just disappointed after that performance considering we played pretty well against Italy. I guess if we play well against Costa Rica we would have done well in 2 of the 3 group games yet still not qualified for the last 16 (probably) As you say there are plenty of positives to take from this England side over the last 2 years, it's certainly an improvement and looks towards the future. ultimately we'll never improve enough to be a force in world football if we don't focus on development and coaching of our younger players Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 I think people are just disappointed after that performance considering we played pretty well against Italy.I guess if we play well against Costa Rica we would have done well in 2 of the 3 group games yet still not qualified for the last 16 (probably) As you say there are plenty of positives to take from this England side over the last 2 years' date=' it's certainly an improvement and looks towards the future.[/quote'] If we build on them that is. We know we can go forwards, but that we haven't got the midfield to play 2 men in the middle. So 4-3-3 it should be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggins Top Boys Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 If we build on them that is. We know we can go forwards, but that we haven't got the midfield to play 2 men in the middle. So 4-3-3 it should be. I completely agree. especially in a post-gerrard era. I don't think we have anyone coming through who is a true defensive midfielder? Wilshere-Henderson-Ox as a midfield 3 maybe? still looks pretty average but they are young and playing regularly at top level club football, we'll have to see on that one Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 I completely agree. especially in a post-gerrard era.I don't think we have anyone coming through who is a true defensive midfielder? Wilshere-Henderson-Ox as a midfield 3 maybe? still looks pretty average but they are young and playing regularly at top level club football' date=' we'll have to see on that one[/quote'] We don't as far as I can see. Rodwell's career has tanked. We've become obsessed with the bright young attacking things that we've forgotten about balance. Again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coulthard's Jaw Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 I think England, moving forward, should just adopt fast direct football. If nothing else, its the most fun you'll get out of your team. You guys have a lot of good athletes. With the likes of Henderson, Wilshere, Sterling, Ox, Walcott, and Sturrdige, that's a lot of running power. You can't play like that in hot conditions though. Actually thought Roy got it spot on yesterday, we dominated possession, when was the last time that happened in a World Cup game for England against a big team? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggins Top Boys Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 You can't play like that in hot conditions though.Actually thought Roy got it spot on yesterday' date=' we dominated possession, when was the last time that happened in a World Cup game for England against a big team?[/quote'] Uruguay aren't a big team, they are a decent team who had the best player on the pitch (by a mile) they were there for the taking and perhaps if we weren't so casual in the build up we could have done them with attacking pace which they were so obviously weak against vs Costa Rica Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 You can't play like that in hot conditions though.Actually thought Roy got it spot on yesterday' date=' we dominated possession, when was the last time that happened in a World Cup game for England against a big team?[/quote'] dominating possession is pointless if your impact with it is minimal. Playing a 4-3-3 would have given us more outlets despite having one less man further forwards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pearcey_90 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Uruaguy are not a big team though. They scrapped through qualifiers by the skin of their teeth and quite literally only have Suarez (Cavani was woefully off form again yesterday with his shooting). All our possession we had was around the defenders and Gerrard, no point having it if that's all we're going to do with the ball. No point having the ball just for the sake off it. I'd like to see our completed passes in the final third for this game compared to Italy, will be amazed if it's above 80% where as the Italy game it was above 90%. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Arrow Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 There is no point in dominating possession if a) there is nobody with the ability to unlock a defence and b) when the ball is played into the box nobody gambles. Had it been the other way around and a Hart kick had been accidentally flicked on by a Uruguay player would Sturridge have gambled and made the run? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coulthard's Jaw Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Uruguay aren't a big team' date=' they are a decent team who had the best player on the pitch (by a mile)[/quote']Disagree, Copa America champions, semi finals of the last world cup, semi finals of the last confederations cup. Far more than anything England has managed in the last 20-30 years. they were there for the taking and perhaps if we weren't so casual in the build up we could have done them with attacking pace which they were so obviously weak against vs Costa Rica I think we created more than enough chances to win the game, fact is we didn't take our chances and Uruguay did. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coulthard's Jaw Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 dominating possession is pointless if your impact with it is minimal. We dominated possession AND created lots of chances so I disagree the impact was minimal. We can discuss tactics but ultimately, if you don't score the chances you create you won't win games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 We dominated possession AND created lots of chances so I disagree the impact was minimal. We can discuss tactics but ultimately' date=' if you don't score the chances you create you won't win games.[/quote']Despite "dominating possession" we still managed to leave our knowingly fragile defence exposed, and were duly punished for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coulthard's Jaw Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Despite "dominating possession" we still managed to leave our knowingly fragile defence exposed, and were duly punished for it. why the quotation marks? would a different system help defend goal kicks? a missed (or misjudged) header can happen in any system to be honest. Teams like Italy and Uruguay are good sides and no matter what system you use, they are going to create chances. Chasing after a game where they create nothing is a bit unrealistic for me. We created more chances in both games, breaks just didn't go our way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 why the quotation marks? would a different system help defend goal kicks? a missed header can happen in any system to be honest. Because the possession obsession/argument irritates the **** of me (not aimed at you fwiw) . Give me effective 40% over ineffective 60%. A missed header can happen in any system for sure, but you can minimise certain things by playing more suitable systems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coulthard's Jaw Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Because the possession obsession/argument irritates the **** of me (not aimed at you fwiw) . Give me effective 40% over ineffective 60%. A missed header can happen in any system for sure, but you can minimise certain things by playing more suitable systems. Well I'd argue it was effective 60% so you get the best of both worlds. I think we've probably reached a stalemate here Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astafjevs Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Things like that are one of the reasons ABEs exist. Before the world cup, we all pretend we're realistic. Then two losses in two close games and all of a sudden Roy needs to go and are team is a disgrace. Haha, this is so true. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Haha, this is so true. Agreed. Amazing how quickly we morph. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMaster#28 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02191f7 Chris Waddle is right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just-Wool Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 England were always going to fail at the group stage. Their manager is atrocious, he can't get the best out of the players and play to their strengths. he never has been good enough and never will be. If England are serious about putting out a good national side, they really do need to rebuild properly and that starts with hiring a person who can rebuild the whole English structure for the benefit of the England team, like most of the big powerhouses of the International game do. That'll never happen though because the Premier League is more important than the FA. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coulthard's Jaw Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 We never learn because we never stick with a manager long enough for him to learn. Look at someone like Bobby Robson, he was pretty good at tournament football by the time he finished. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggins Top Boys Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02191f7Chris Waddle is right. well said Waddle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMaster#28 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 It's madness if we sack Roy. As has been pointed out above, we convinced ourselves (rightly) as a nation we were underdogs and were not going to get anything out of the tournament. And within the space of about 2 weeks that turned into "we have told ourselves we have no expectations = pressure off = we are going to do pretty well" If by the time we play our 3rd game we are mathematically out, I would like to see all the youngsters starting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Cartman Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 What does Waddle say? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ234 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 England were always going to fail at the group stage. Their manager is atrocious, he can't get the best out of the players and play to their strengths. he never has been good enough and never will be. If England are serious about putting out a good national side, they really do need to rebuild properly and that starts with hiring a person who can rebuild the whole English structure for the benefit of the England team, like most of the big powerhouses of the International game do. That'll never happen though because the Premier League is more important than the FA. You realise just because he was crap at Liverpool he isn't a crap manager? Hodgson clearly is a decent manager but he and the players got it wrong last night. That is all there is to it. The mistake was the lack of balance in the line up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Cartman Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 I don't want them to sack Roy, He's kind of doing the right things but at the same time doing things wrong. We have nothing to lose now, so whatever happens in the Italy game tonight, the likes of Rooney, Gerrard, Baines and Jags have not performed for him, so give the younger players a go and if we somehow qualify then great, let them carry on and build towards the Euros Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just-Wool Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 We never learn because we never stick with a manager long enough for him to learn. Look at someone like Bobby Robson' date=' he was pretty good at tournament football by the time he finished.[/quote']All fine and dandy if you have a good manager in place and he needs time. Roy isn't a good manager, he's failed at every top club he's managed and I am still yet to understand why he was appointed as England manager. If someone like Rodgers was England boss, then fine, give him all the time he needs to get it right. A 60 odd year old journeyman doesn't have a long shelf life as it is, so was never the right guy for long term England. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just-Wool Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 You realise just because he was crap at Liverpool he isn't a crap manager? Hodgson clearly is a decent manager but he and the players got it wrong last night. That is all there is to it. The mistake was the lack of balance in the line up. Getting a lack of balance is his hallmark. It's nothing new. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
milnerpoint Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Who would you have instead? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ234 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Getting a lack of balance is his hallmark. It's nothing new. Doesn't make him a bad manager many of the best managers make the same mistakes again and again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arenaross Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 monkeywool a Liverpool fan I'm guessing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomtuck01 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02191f7Chris Waddle is right. He's right, but he rants in such insufferable manner. Just calm down you twonk. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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