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denninbj

2 ideas for youth intake/academy! I would like to hear yours as well.

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So i know this is just wishful thinking but i think SI should do 2 things to improve what many consider the most interesting part of the game: YOUTH REGENS. To improve this aspect i came up with 2 ideas, the 1st would be the game to allow you to sign players at a much younger age and have these signings be more like how it truly is: a recruiting battle between various teams. In America football and basketball recruiting is a huge deal with has popular sites(rivals) dedicated to monitoring where top players commit. So say you start getting players at age 12 and are competing against a cross town rival for his signature, it would really add to the academy aspect of the game. Then if you get them really young, you can mold them into the position you want them to play and such. I know teams in real life sign players younger then allowed in the game. So i say they replace the junior coaching set up and allow for recruiting of youth for your academy instead of the boring system tehy currently have where 20 players show up some random day. The other huge problem i have is youth ratings of countries affecting intake (if you have tried the HG San Marino challenge, you know what i mean). The system of an unchangeable rating that decides how good your countries youth are going to be, seems absurd. So as a solution i think they should have a dynamic youth rating, not to dissimilar to the league and team reputation. Both of these ideas are just thoughts, but now that i am getting good at the game, HG youth are the only part that keep me engaged.

I would love to here any of your related thoughts on how to improve the youth system and maek it more fun.

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Honestly, the idea of having to fight with clubs to sign and then keep players for several seasons before I could hope to have them feature in a matchday squad... makes me feel exhausted just thinking about it.

I don't know how national youth ratings work, but having them be dynamic is sort of a good idea, I guess. I mean, I'm not sure San Marino could realistically pump out dozens of superstars every year given their tiny population, but whatever. Immersion. /shrug

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Indeed, I think it is unrealistic to imagine that a country the size of San Marino could ever produce quality regens regularly. The population is simply too small to allow that, regardless of how you can progress the nation in the game. I would be in favour of a dynamic youth rating, but the number of players should in some way be tied to the population.

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Indeed, I think it is unrealistic to imagine that a country the size of San Marino could ever produce quality regens regularly. The population is simply too small to allow that, regardless of how you can progress the nation in the game. I would be in favour of a dynamic youth rating, but the number of players should in some way be tied to the population.

Got to remember that it's a game, and in 50 years, anything could happen.

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I would like their to be something else, but at what point to you stop? Do you add a academy team below the u18, drop the lowest age to 10 rather than 14 why not 8, heck I remember hearing reports of teams going after 4yr olds.

I think the best thing is have a new category of coaching staff, who only impact on the quality of your regens, have nothing to do with your current players(Or just use the current U18 coaches to do this instead) . Depending on their style (and ability) of coaching your regens (Current ability) could come out differently, You have a technical minded coach then your regens have a higher technical atturbutes but maybe suffer on mental and physical, you have a physical minded coach then your regens come out with better physical at the cost of technical/mental, Good Mental coach then physical/Technical take a hit.

It's up to you as the manager (or your Head of Youth Development/Directer of Football If you delegate the responsibility to them) to make sure you get the right balance of coaching for that level. Also you couldn't see the profile/attributes of your current academy players but rather get reports form your Academy Staff on the current state of affairs for the players coming though, maybe get reports for year 1,2,3,4 or under 13,14,15,16. So if you know a year is weak then you can ask the board to give a % of your transfer budget for recruitment. These reports would get more detailed the closer to "graduation" the players get and give you some insight into what positions you can expect your strongest regens to be able to play and maybe you could have some influence over their final position at the loss of some CA.

Example of how the reports could get more detailed:

Year 1: General talent and potential

Year 2: General talent and potential, broad positions, Def, Mid, Attk

Year 3: Specific talent and potential, Refined Positions and side, SW, D, DM, M, AM, SC L/R

Year 4: Specific talent and Potential, Refined Positions and side, Best Role and Strongest Attribute.

For example you have followed an academy year progress form year 1(u13) they are now in year 3(u15) and you know that their are some talented players coming though but the most resent report is suggesting that the most talented player(s) play Def, yet you know that the current year 4(u16) players who will be joining the main team in this years youth in-take also have the best talent playing CD, you request that the coaches look into training the year 3 player(s) in a new position. The earlier you ask the more chance of succeeding, yet at the same time the less you know about that player. So you could potentially retain a player out of CD whose best attribute ends up being tackling or marking.

For me, as someone who likes to bring players though my youth system and give youth a chance I find it incredibility annoying that you feel there is no potential in a cretin position so you buy in some youngsters at usually a elevated cost and wages to fill that role, then your youth intake comes though and you get 1-2 good looking prospects that play that role you just filled

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I really like your idea of the progression of reports every year, i understand that the game already has a "junior coaching" category that the can improve over time but sucks that you never have any idea what these "juniors" are up to. I would like the game to just be more involved in the signing and progression of youth in general. If anyone has played fifa, it has a system where you send out scouts and they scout for 9 weeks, the longer you scout them the more info you get, but if you wait to long to sign them, another team can steal them.

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Battling with other teams for a 12 year kids signature doesn't sound like something I would enjoy. Would the first team manager deal with that sort of thing anyway?

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Battling with other teams for a 12 year kids signature doesn't sound like something I would enjoy. Would the first team manager deal with that sort of thing anyway?

I am not sure a first team manager would, but this football manager, so you could assign someone to just do it for you or you could do it yourself. I just think having more stuff to do in relation to finding and developing youth would be something that many of us who focus on hg youth would enjoy.

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I would like their to be something else, but at what point to you stop? Do you add a academy team below the u18, drop the lowest age to 10 rather than 14 why not 8, heck I remember hearing reports of teams going after 4yr olds.

I think the best thing is have a new category of coaching staff, who only impact on the quality of your regens, have nothing to do with your current players(Or just use the current U18 coaches to do this instead) . Depending on their style (and ability) of coaching your regens (Current ability) could come out differently, You have a technical minded coach then your regens have a higher technical atturbutes but maybe suffer on mental and physical, you have a physical minded coach then your regens come out with better physical at the cost of technical/mental, Good Mental coach then physical/Technical take a hit.

It's up to you as the manager (or your Head of Youth Development/Directer of Football If you delegate the responsibility to them) to make sure you get the right balance of coaching for that level. Also you couldn't see the profile/attributes of your current academy players but rather get reports form your Academy Staff on the current state of affairs for the players coming though, maybe get reports for year 1,2,3,4 or under 13,14,15,16. So if you know a year is weak then you can ask the board to give a % of your transfer budget for recruitment. These reports would get more detailed the closer to "graduation" the players get and give you some insight into what positions you can expect your strongest regens to be able to play and maybe you could have some influence over their final position at the loss of some CA.

Example of how the reports could get more detailed:

Year 1: General talent and potential

Year 2: General talent and potential, broad positions, Def, Mid, Attk

Year 3: Specific talent and potential, Refined Positions and side, SW, D, DM, M, AM, SC L/R

Year 4: Specific talent and Potential, Refined Positions and side, Best Role and Strongest Attribute.

For example you have followed an academy year progress form year 1(u13) they are now in year 3(u15) and you know that their are some talented players coming though but the most resent report is suggesting that the most talented player(s) play Def, yet you know that the current year 4(u16) players who will be joining the main team in this years youth in-take also have the best talent playing CD, you request that the coaches look into training the year 3 player(s) in a new position. The earlier you ask the more chance of succeeding, yet at the same time the less you know about that player. So you could potentially retain a player out of CD whose best attribute ends up being tackling or marking.

For me, as someone who likes to bring players though my youth system and give youth a chance I find it incredibility annoying that you feel there is no potential in a cretin position so you buy in some youngsters at usually a elevated cost and wages to fill that role, then your youth intake comes though and you get 1-2 good looking prospects that play that role you just filled

I really like this idea. Because having u-15s, u-12s would lead to over micro managing and as another user pointed out, it isn't really the manager's job to look after such things. I would like to supplement this idea with a couple of suggestions: 1) The ability to have some sort of a broad preview of these players. A coach's report of sorts maybe? So that you have a faint idea of what you might me getting into in a couple of years' time. This could maybe function as the "Scout X club" feature. The report should by no means be precise. Maybe using worded descriptions instead of attributes such as 'Good finisher', 'Average Passer', 'Physical Presence in the air', etc. 2)Employing part-time scouts and part time coaches to coach these players. The number of academies a club has could limit the maximum number of such staff. The manager should at NO POINT have the ability to scout such players. Because that would enhance poaching and realism would suffer. I feel this and dynamic youth rating for countries is the way forward for Football Manager with regard to youth.

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I think the idea of having "Academy Coaches" who would just impact the quality of new gens is a good one. Your head of youth delevopment should be in charge of an academy under the u18 team, where the coaches have impact your youth intake, You say to him I see our club playing attacking football. He would hire coaches with high attack coaching attributes (unless you wanted to handle recruitment) to produce more attack minded players. You could also have some sway on positions to prioritise by saying for example we are using wingers, then ideally you would get more wingers in your future intakes. At the moment some years you can get no players in certain positions.

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dynamic reputation is a brilliant idea suggested many times before, if you can make a conference south team world beaters why can't you do it with Andorra? obviously it'll be difficult but if your domestic clubs improve so will the other clubs which would increase the youth rating

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dynamic reputation is a brilliant idea suggested many times before, if you can make a conference south team world beaters why can't you do it with Andorra? obviously it'll be difficult but if your domestic clubs improve so will the other clubs which would increase the youth rating

But in real life it wouldn't necessarily work like this. A non league team from london has a lot more access to potentially top quality youth players than Andorra simply due to population size. And a conference south team such as Bath, Bishop's Stortford or Eastbourne hardly has a lot of local talent in the areas around it. Teams such as Eastleigh or Staines are near larger cities so have a wider base to draw from. Not saying there might not be the odd world beater from there, but the youth intake from a bigger city/more populated area will be generally of a higher standard than of a smaller/less populated area. Yes, if a team is a European giant they will be able to attract more players to the club, but it wouldn't effect the talent of the local population

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I think we need a lot more sensible and user friendly reports from the youth setup in order to make informed decisions on the first team for a start.

At the moment we get a "Oh here is your random intake of players this year, btw this guy is a little decent" along with a very brief monthly report from training. Most of the information you want to know about a youth player is either hidden away in the depths of his profile or coach report.

Whenever I get a youth player come through my setup I'd like to see at a glance what his strengths and weaknesses are, where he's been playing at youth level, how he's been playing and what his attitude is. We don't even have stats for the youth guys, I'd like to see those.

Most of all I'd like to see the youth academy guys take a lot more of an active role in promoting players that are ready for the first team for you. I want to see them come up to you and say "This kid has been playing excellently in the youth setup - he's scored 23 goals, he's been the star of the academy, he's way too good for this level and he really needs to be playing at a higher level right now. Here are his stats, this is his bio, he's good at this, this and this. I don't think I can do anything more with him without more competitive football." Rather than the very generic "He's improved as a footballer and he's ready for more first team action"

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I think we need a lot more sensible and user friendly reports from the youth setup in order to make informed decisions on the first team for a start.

At the moment we get a "Oh here is your random intake of players this year, btw this guy is a little decent" along with a very brief monthly report from training. Most of the information you want to know about a youth player is either hidden away in the depths of his profile or coach report.

Whenever I get a youth player come through my setup I'd like to see at a glance what his strengths and weaknesses are, where he's been playing at youth level, how he's been playing and what his attitude is. We don't even have stats for the youth guys, I'd like to see those.

Most of all I'd like to see the youth academy guys take a lot more of an active role in promoting players that are ready for the first team for you. I want to see them come up to you and say "This kid has been playing excellently in the youth setup - he's scored 23 goals, he's been the star of the academy, he's way too good for this level and he really needs to be playing at a higher level right now. Here are his stats, this is his bio, he's good at this, this and this. I don't think I can do anything more with him without more competitive football." Rather than the very generic "He's improved as a footballer and he's ready for more first team action"

I think this Idea is probably the easiest option and possibly more realistic than SI implementing something akin to my idea which is a massive change to the game. For this idea nothing new has to be made or balanced, but rather taking currently accessible info but gathering it all up in a nice concise report.

I also think that for certain types of young players that exposing them the first team could slow down/stall their development, and on that note it would be nice to see Coaches recommending that you should send players back to the u18 or u21 as being in the first team is hampering their development, maybe have it in the form of a sharp attribute decrease. IRL you always hear manages talking about protecting youngsters and nurturing them to properly aid their development. Yet in FM I find there is no age too young and there is no real risk of playing a young player as-long as they are good-enough, which seems to be most regens of any way descent PA.

I think that maybe the majority of young players CA is much too high or they gain it too fast and that only the extraordinary talents should really have amazing stats at 17/18. In my current game I have a 20 year old who has made 138 appearances, he is a good player but I wouldn't say he is of a Messi standard and he is probably very close to his PA already, I also have a 21yr old who, has made 157 appearances and is worth £52mil(bought for £6mil when he was 18) but for me he is the sort of extraordinary talent that would get played at a young age. It's much to easy to spot great talent at young ages I would like to see more variation in the growth curves of players more players looking terrible up until they are 20/21 then making massive improvement, maybe some sort of hard-coded development type, if anyone remembers the older Pro Evolution Soccer games had something like this.

Maybe If they made the u18 step of a players career seem more necessary to produce the final product then it would seem more like you have more to do with youth development

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Both the ideas in the last 2 posts are good ideas. I'm a big fan of promoting youth players and trying to get my own world beater from my academy, so a bit more detail in this regard would be useful rather than just pumping money into junior coaching and facilities and hoping for the best. More detailed reports when there's a new youth intake would be perfect!

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But in real life it wouldn't necessarily work like this. A non league team from london has a lot more access to potentially top quality youth players than Andorra simply due to population size. And a conference south team such as Bath, Bishop's Stortford or Eastbourne hardly has a lot of local talent in the areas around it. Teams such as Eastleigh or Staines are near larger cities so have a wider base to draw from. Not saying there might not be the odd world beater from there, but the youth intake from a bigger city/more populated area will be generally of a higher standard than of a smaller/less populated area. Yes, if a team is a European giant they will be able to attract more players to the club, but it wouldn't effect the talent of the local population
Agreed - San Marino's population really is that tiny. Population-wise, it's comparable to Colwyn Bay or Brøndby, who could conceivably produce one world-class player in a single generation - but to produce a great national team, you need more than one player per generation, and that's where the odds count against San Marino. It's also pretty much impossible to gain Sanmarinese nationality, so it can't build a national team via naturalisation, either.

In reality, I think if a club in Andorra or San Marino were to become world-class, it would have to draw its fanbase and youth players from its neighbours. That is, you could see a weird scenario where if San Marino (the club) were the best club in the world, it would produce 99% Italian youngsters by the age of 18, because 99% of its "catchment area" is Italian. You'd also see the stadium packed full of Italians on the "home" side. We'd probably see one or two top-tier Sanmarinese talents, probably in Serie A, but the best youngsters produced by San Marino (the club) would probably be Italian.

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I think this Idea is probably the easiest option and possibly more realistic than SI implementing something akin to my idea which is a massive change to the game. For this idea nothing new has to be made or balanced, but rather taking currently accessible info but gathering it all up in a nice concise report.

I also think that for certain types of young players that exposing them the first team could slow down/stall their development, and on that note it would be nice to see Coaches recommending that you should send players back to the u18 or u21 as being in the first team is hampering their development, maybe have it in the form of a sharp attribute decrease. IRL you always hear manages talking about protecting youngsters and nurturing them to properly aid their development. Yet in FM I find there is no age too young and there is no real risk of playing a young player as-long as they are good-enough, which seems to be most regens of any way descent PA.

I think that maybe the majority of young players CA is much too high or they gain it too fast and that only the extraordinary talents should really have amazing stats at 17/18. In my current game I have a 20 year old who has made 138 appearances, he is a good player but I wouldn't say he is of a Messi standard and he is probably very close to his PA already, I also have a 21yr old who, has made 157 appearances and is worth £52mil(bought for £6mil when he was 18) but for me he is the sort of extraordinary talent that would get played at a young age. It's much to easy to spot great talent at young ages I would like to see more variation in the growth curves of players more players looking terrible up until they are 20/21 then making massive improvement, maybe some sort of hard-coded development type, if anyone remembers the older Pro Evolution Soccer games had something like this.

Maybe If they made the u18 step of a players career seem more necessary to produce the final product then it would seem more like you have more to do with youth development

I've thought for a long time the arbitrary PA/CA system needs to be replaced with something more dynamic. I've don't remember anything about the pro evolution games development, so forgive me if the following is exactly what happens.

I know the ability to reach the PA at the moment depends on coaching, facilities and some attributes - but on the whole, it's pretty easy to hit the PA for most guys if you get them early enough. We could do with some sort of random modifier that increases or decreases the accrual of CA points when it hits a certain mark, which we'd never know about.

For example, let's say your CA is 100 and your PA is 200 and you gain 2CA every week at your club. Why not add a modifier of x3 when they hit 150CA until they hit 180CA which would give them 6CA per week until they hit 180, then goes back to x1.

This way, you would have players peaking at completely different times at different clubs - some players may even have to move to hit that growth spurt as their current club may not be able to get them to the level where they start getting the multipliers.

Also, I don't know if it currently happens, but there should be a cap on what level your guys can get to depending on your coaching facilities (unless there is an exceptionally naturally talented player that comes through) so if your overall training ratings are 3 star then you can only really accommodate coaching to a 150CA and players will stop progressing when they hit this cap.

In terms of players coming through the ranks, I was thinking about this a little more today and I would actually like to see regens come in at 8-10 years old but you cannot interact with them, only view their attributes and stats in the games they play, with your youth development head handling everything in terms of trials, contracts and training. Then, instead of having randomly generated 14/15/16 year olds that you don't know anything about suddenly show up in your team, you can have their history for the past 4-6 years and you can then have serious in depth reports, with stats and recommendations from your youth head.

This could then lead onto things that happen quite often in football where a guy had a trial at a club when he was like 12, getting rejected - being picked up by a rival and becoming a world superstar. It could also open up media articles for players of the future, ones to watch, hottest prospects etc.

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In terms of players coming through the ranks, I was thinking about this a little more today and I would actually like to see regens come in at 8-10 years old but you cannot interact with them, only view their attributes and stats in the games they play, with your youth development head handling everything in terms of trials, contracts and training. Then, instead of having randomly generated 14/15/16 year olds that you don't know anything about suddenly show up in your team, you can have their history for the past 4-6 years and you can then have serious in depth reports, with stats and recommendations from your youth head.

Seems like a good idea, but would take a lot of time up and I would forget I had an actual team of adults to manage :lol: I really enjoy the youth training aspect of FM and I'm open to reading other peoples ideas. But this could be a tad too far me thinks...

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It would be nice to be able to specify which positions you want your youth players to be comfortable playing. Makes no sense getting pure LMs or LWBs when you play without any. Same for styles, should be able to demand a focus on certain attributes from a very young age and produce players in that 'style'

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But in real life it wouldn't necessarily work like this. A non league team from london has a lot more access to potentially top quality youth players than Andorra simply due to population size. And a conference south team such as Bath, Bishop's Stortford or Eastbourne hardly has a lot of local talent in the areas around it. Teams such as Eastleigh or Staines are near larger cities so have a wider base to draw from. Not saying there might not be the odd world beater from there, but the youth intake from a bigger city/more populated area will be generally of a higher standard than of a smaller/less populated area. Yes, if a team is a European giant they will be able to attract more players to the club, but it wouldn't effect the talent of the local population

But in real life, any non-league team in London would have just as little chance as a team from San Marino in producing quality. Sure, there is a bigger population, but there is very little chance of a highly rated youth saying "yeah, I want to stay non-league" rather than taking up offers from either clubs in the lower leagues who can offer them football at a young age, or in the case of the really gifted, shots at Arsenal, Chelsea etc.

Actually, in my mind, a well set-up youth academy from a nation like San Marino should produce far more quality than one for a club in non-league. They have a smaller population, but presumably in their area they are a giant. They should have the pick of the youngsters, and won't have anyone stealing them. There will always be talented youngsters in unusual places, just less of them.

It would be nice to be able to specify which positions you want your youth players to be comfortable playing. Makes no sense getting pure LMs or LWBs when you play without any. Same for styles, should be able to demand a focus on certain attributes from a very young age and produce players in that 'style'

But how is that realistic? Unless it just barred some players from entry, you're going to get players coming through the ranks who can play in certain positions. Just because you don't play a certain position doesn't mean a player with proficiency in that position shouldn't be able to come through. Saying what positions you want just seems like you're exerting far too much control on the production of regens. If it's being truly realistic, then it should be a weighted random.

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But how is that realistic? Unless it just barred some players from entry, you're going to get players coming through the ranks who can play in certain positions. Just because you don't play a certain position doesn't mean a player with proficiency in that position shouldn't be able to come through. Saying what positions you want just seems like you're exerting far too much control on the production of regens. If it's being truly realistic, then it should be a weighted random.
All youngsters play in a variety of positions because an actual position at youth level doesn't mean much. Carrick was a winger as a kid, and van Nistelrooy was a midfielder, to mention a few.

One of the objectives of the youth team is to produce players for the first-team, so it makes sense to be able to pick positions to focus on. Barcelona play the same formation throughout their youth and first-team, so it makes sense that they wouldn't produce many pure side-midfielders, and any who were once side-midfielders will likely be competent as wingers, midfielders or possibly full-backs when they do make it into your visible youth team.

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All youngsters play in a variety of positions because an actual position at youth level doesn't mean much. Carrick was a winger as a kid, and van Nistelrooy was a midfielder, to mention a few.

One of the objectives of the youth team is to produce players for the first-team, so it makes sense to be able to pick positions to focus on. Barcelona play the same formation throughout their youth and first-team, so it makes sense that they wouldn't produce many pure side-midfielders, and any who were once side-midfielders will likely be competent as wingers, midfielders or possibly full-backs when they do make it into your visible youth team.

Yeah, I suppose you're right. I'm more thinking of it in the context of the current way youths are brought in. If there's a complete revamp, with youths coming in as more of a blank page, then it could be worked in.

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