I am sick to death of matches like this

[Evilyoshi]

Bristol City 3-2 Wolves

Shots: 6-25

On Target: 4-10

Fouls: 17-3

Possession: 41%-59%

CCC: 1-10

Corners: 0-9

and so on, you get the idea.

I cant take this any more, its ruining my entire experience of this game, anything I do feels meaningless beacuse every game comes down to the same question/coin toss before the match: "Will your striker be able to hit a barn door?" if so, continue match as useal, if not, then unless something incredible happens, I am not winning it, no mater what, as its almost impossible to take any points from a game where your striker has the finishing of a 5 year old. When 9/10 chances you create, no matter how good, nothing will come of it, its a handicap impossible to recover from.

These kinda games happen, abouslity I accept that, but no where NEAR this often, NOT one out of every 3-5 games, DOSENT HAPPEN. Whether is be Barcelona, Wolves or Aldershot, its always the same story, strikers are useless from any kind of 1 on 1 situation with the keeper every time, while still being able to drill it into the top corner from hard angles on a regualir basis. Zero logic

It speaks volumes when seeing my striker break their offside trap and storm the keeper no longer even gets me off my seat anymore, because I just now know that it isnt a "true" chance, which counterfits any kind of footballing logic.

Sigh..Im sorry, just so wound up from matches like this and needed to get this off my chest for abit, next game

[vlobben]

I have never had those kinds of stats and that result in the 15 seasons of my save. If it happens every 3-5 matches in your save, I can see no other reason than it being because of the tactical setup you're using. If you want help with it, uploading the save so people can take a look is strongly recommened. If you just wanted to rant.. oh well

[Ackter]

It's what happens when you over-attack and lose shape against a rigid, defensive-shaped team.

[HUNT3R]

I really am surprised by the amount of these threads. Instead of a rant OP, rather ask for advice.

[Norfair]

Yeah I'm honestly getting sick of these threads too. Just try and change things around, ask for help, but stop creating more of these threads. There are enough of them. I honestly dont see games like that very often, and I'm pretty sure many other people dont either. Which means it IS your tactics.

[Dedinho]

Yeah I'm honestly getting sick of these threads too. Just try and change things around, ask for help, but stop creating more of these threads. There are enough of them. I honestly dont see games like that very often, and I'm pretty sure many other people dont either. Which means it IS your tactics.

His 25 shots, and 10 of those on target are a clear indicator that his tactics work fine.

[Evilyoshi]

I really am surprised by the amount of these threads. Instead of a rant OP, rather ask for advice.

Okay then, what "advice" would you offer? What steps would you recommend? Keep in mind, im perfectly happy with the way my team plays, yes abit leaky defensibly at times, but not too bad (game in OP post was a one off 3 goals coincided)

The midfield in general is excellent, keeping the ball well at all times, hence the 59% away poss, we also get into dangerous positions all the time, hence the high amount of fouls their team is always commting to stop us, I have no problem with the chances themselves we are creating, the CCCs come and go left right and centre, we are creating enoguth chances that any player who had seen a ball before would be able to take enoguht times over 90 mins to win a game. Eveyrthing up untill the final shot is perfect.

So unless you have a "finish better" button I am not aware of, I cannot see what can be done to improve this situation, in real life football, players will convert 1 on 1 chances with ease the majority of the time, this rule simply dosent apply in FM, it creates this bizarre situation where im more confident that we will convert a 25 yarder at an angle with 5 opposition players in the way then a simple 1 on 1 with the keeper when I break the offside trap.

Edit; I can post direct match images if someone tells me how, i have them in file but suck at this stuff.

[HUNT3R]

Okay then, what "advice" would you offer? What steps would you recommend? Keep in mind, im perfectly happy with the way my team plays, yes abit leaky defensibly at times, but not too bad (game in OP post was a one off 3 goals coincided

I wouldn't be happy with the way my team plays if we score 1 out of 10 CCCs. My "advice" would be to start a thread in the tactics forum with a description of your team formation/roles/duties (or just a screenshot). Then explain what the problem is that you have and you'll get "advice" soon enough.

EDIT: If you want, just post it here too.

EDIT 2: Upload your images to an external site (photobucket, imageshack etc) and then post the link here. I think the URL link will embed it.

[Dagenham_Dave]

The midfield in general is excellent, keeping the ball well at all times, hence the 59% away poss, we also get into dangerous positions all the time, hence the high amount of fouls their team is always commting to stop us, I have no problem with the chances themselves we are creating, the CCCs come and go left right and centre, we are creating enoguth chances that any player who had seen a ball before would be able to take enoguht times over 90 mins to win a game. Eveyrthing up untill the final shot is perfect.

Your example shows that Bristol City scored three goals from four shots on target. If the AI controlled teams can have that sort of efficiency, so can you. It's that simple.

[Evilyoshi]

I wouldn't be happy with the way my team plays if we score 1 out of 10 CCCs. My "advice" would be to start a thread in the tactics forum with a description of your team formation/roles/duties (or just a screenshot). Then explain what the problem is that you have and you'll get "advice" soon enough.

EDIT: If you want, just post it here too.

EDIT 2: Upload your images to an external site (photobucket, imageshack etc) and then post the link here. I think the URL link will embed it.

Okay, will do in a min.

Also, sorry for the """" marks implying fake/negative advice in my post, frustration just boiling over in general.

[HUNT3R]

I get that you're frustrated, but it really is something you're doing. Most likely it is what Ackter said, but instead of guessing, you can provide us the information required to give you advice. Then we can give you accurate advice and improve your results.

[Lawlore]

I really am surprised by the amount of these threads. Instead of a rant OP, rather ask for advice.

Without wanting to drag this off-topic, the frequency of these sorts of posts reinforces the idea that the game isn't doing an adequate job of giving feedback to help people improve their tactics themselves, without coming here in desperation. That in itself is a problem- of course, people can learn a lot on these forums and especially the Tactics Forum, and there's nothing wrong with that- but first and foremost there should be an in-game word from an in-game member of staff about "Ok, why are we dominating all of these stats but still losing- and what can we do to remedy it?".

[HUNT3R]

Without wanting to drag this off-topic, the frequency of these sorts of posts reinforces the idea that the game isn't doing an adequate job of giving feedback to help people improve their tactics themselves, without coming here in desperation. That in itself is a problem- of course, people can learn a lot on these forums and especially the Tactics Forum, and there's nothing wrong with that- but first and foremost there should be an in-game word from an in-game member of staff about "Ok, why are we dominating all of these stats but still losing- and what can we do to remedy it?".

I can't say that I disagree. The game could do more to advise players. You actually gave me another question to ask the OP.

Evilyoshi, how much of a game do you watch? Do you go back and watch the chances missed to try and see why they were missed?

[Lenzar]

There's also the fact that people answer 'it's your tactics' to virtually everything. Kind of takes the shine off it when it really IS your tactics.

[Dr. Hook]

yeh, there shuold be a quiz/tutorial that you should do before playing game (earning you the coaching badge ) that would explain main concepts in football and in the game. what is sound (playing deep against fast strikers ...) and what is not.

that could be done in fun way as well and would make people better understand the game of fm and of football.

now, isn't that a brilliant idea?!

Well, stick it in the wishlist thread! I think it is an excellent idea.

[Dr. Hook]

His 25 shots, and 10 of those on target are a clear indicator that his tactics work fine.

It is not a clear indicator of anything other than that he generated a number of shots and fewer than half were on target.

[Dedinho]

It is not a clear indicator of anything other than that he generated a number of shots and fewer than half were on target.

Unless the majority of those shots were from 25+ yards your statement is false.

[wwfan]

Unless the majority of those shots were from 25+ yards your statement is false.

Real world stats indicate that you only win 71% of your matches if you have a better shot count. As the OP suggested it was happening to him every 3-5 matches, we'll use 4 as the mean. The OP is thus winning 75% of his matches, but losing/drawing 25% of his matches when having a better shot count than his opponent.

It's a non-issue. The user needs to work out how to handle these matches and react to them when they look like happening. That's kind of the point of a management simulation.

[vlobben]

OP is talking about a pretty significant domination when it comes to shots, and not a 51/49 split. Statistics on how many matches are won when the winning team has less than 1/4th the amount of shots compared to the losing team would be more relevant, but is probably hard to find

Note that it doesn't invalidate the conclusion. There's a tactical issue in here somewhere.

[wwfan]

OP is talking about a pretty significant domination when it comes to shots, and not a 51/49 split. Statistics on how many matches are won when the winning team has less than 1/4th the amount of shots compared to the losing team would be more relevant, but is probably hard to find

Note that it doesn't invalidate the conclusion. There's a tactical issue in here somewhere.

Barca's league record thus far this season is W22, D3, L4, which pretty much matches the 75-25% split. That's with a ultra-dominant squad for the quality of league, one of the best players who ever lived and a highly reputable manager.

An FM manager can be better or worse than this. Good tactics only get you so far. It's pretty easy to build a tactic that dominates possession and shots. Good decisions are the difference between having a Barca-esque 75%+ winning record and a more ordinary 60-70% one. These can be tactical and/or player management decisions. Excelling at those is the difference between being a good and great FM manager.

[Ryknow]

In regards to 1v1s I've seen no problems. It was bad on a previous patch but my strikers score what seems a realistic amount of 1v1s. Can only think it's either your players or they are rushing it due to your style/tempo or their confidence levels.

[CityAndColour]

How many of the 10 CCC were genuine one on ones and how many were the longer, wide shots the game seems to calculate as a CCC?

[BiggusD]

Unless the majority of those shots were from 25+ yards your statement is false.

No it is not. 25 shots in a game means that your team got a shot off every 3,6 minutes. 10 on target means 2,5 shots for every 1 shot on target, which is poor. Basically, those stats tell me that he was likely playing quick, attacking football against a side that defended deep.

That is all the stats can tell us. If he wants the real reason why he lost 3-2 in such a match, he will have to see more of the match to pinpoint exactly how the goals happened and why they were not prevented. 2 goals in 10 CCC's (a useless stat) and 10 shots on target is actually not very bad at all. The problem was that he conceded 3 goals to a hyper-efficient AI. That happened because he let them be hyper-efficient, so he has defensive problems, not offensive problems.

One would think that 25/10 is better than 10/5 but it is not. One would think that going up to 30/15 is better than 20/10 as well, but it is in fact not. One would think that 70% possession is better than 30% but it is not. Football count goals not failures.

The fact of the matter is, Bristol City played a better football match than Wolves in the OP's case. The regular occurence of similar matches show that it is not just bad luck either. If he wants to eradicate these kind of matches from his experience, he needs to change his approach to those kind of matches - which includes tactics and team talks/man management.

Edit: but I must add here that there ARE too many missed chances within the 6-yard box. Both for me and against me. I hardly raise an eyebrow at certain types of chances either, knowing that they are far less likely to score on them than it seems. The real world's 1/3 goals on true CCC's even by world class strikers must be closer to 1/5 or worse in FM. But this might be because of the lack of graphical details in the 3d representation, so that the angle of the ball carrier's body and where the ball is and which foot he stands on etc aren't displayed well enough to communicate the difficulty of the chance.

[Sydney666]

Real world stats indicate that you only win 71% of your matches if you have a better shot count. As the OP suggested it was happening to him every 3-5 matches, we'll use 4 as the mean. The OP is thus winning 75% of his matches, but losing/drawing 25% of his matches when having a better shot count than his opponent.

It's a non-issue. The user needs to work out how to handle these matches and react to them when they look like happening. That's kind of the point of a management simulation.

Amazing.... FM really is perfect afteral.

[chob]

yeh, there shuold be a quiz/tutorial that you should do before playing game (earning you the coaching badge ) that would explain main concepts in football and in the game. what is sound (playing deep against fast strikers ...) and what is not.

that could be done in fun way as well and would make people better understand the game of fm and of football.

now, isn't that a brilliant idea?!

I would like to see something like this. I've been playing FM for years but have never been able to get any of my own tactics to work so I have always ended up using someone else's.

I already accept that it's my tactics and clearly I don't understand the tactical side of the game.

[sirgiorgio]

Barca's league record thus far this season is W22, D3, L4, which pretty much matches the 75-25% split. That's with a ultra-dominant squad for the quality of league, one of the best players who ever lived and a highly reputable manager.

An FM manager can be better or worse than this. Good tactics only get you so far. It's pretty easy to build a tactic that dominates possession and shots. Good decisions are the difference between having a Barca-esque 75%+ winning record and a more ordinary 60-70% one. These can be tactical and/or player management decisions. Excelling at those is the difference between being a good and great FM manager.

Well, IMO it shouldn’t be that easy to create tactics that constantly dominate possession and shots. It takes years of training (and the right players) to build a mentality and create a tactic that remotely resemble the tiki-taka. The fact that the OP managed to achieve that with Wolves in (I suppose) League 1 should be regarded as a miracle of sorts.

The fact of the matter is, Bristol City played a better football match than Wolves in the OP's case.

No, they didn’t. They conceded 25 shots and 10 ccc’s. They way I see it, Bristol City defenders were on strike. Maybe if it was Bristol v Man City I would consider it the typical shock result that makes football so interesting and unpredictable, but between two teams of the same league (in any sense) that result is a statistical nonsense.

[SPE3D]

Admittedly I've not played FM14 yet. Still enjoying FM13 but if was the OP I'd be more concerned that he had 10 clear cut chances. Seems unrealistically high to me.

[jamez_b]

Can the OP post some of the analysis of where the CCC and shots were taken from, how many were saved/blocked etc.? Also some screenshots or videos of the goals conceded?

I still standby the philosophy that tactics can only go as far to lead to the creation of chances for a player but only the player can take them. The big tactical analysis missing from the game, as said, is understanding why these players don't take their chances? Confidence, opposition pressure, positioning (using wrong foot?). This is where you need your assistant and coaches to be giving more meaningful feedback as they would in real life.

[scott MUFC]

I just drew 0-0 with 0 shots on target... far too many strikers missing sitters atm

[Smarf]

To the OP, 90% of people on here will tell u its ur tactics, i have the same thing as u all the time, the game is flawed in so many ways its unreal. I like many others have now stopped playing and probably wont return to what used to be an enjoyable game.

[Svenc]

Well, IMO it shouldn’t be that easy to create tactics that constantly dominate possession and shots. It takes years of training (and the right players) to build a mentality and create a tactic that remotely resemble the tiki-taka. The fact that the OP managed to achieve that with Wolves in (I suppose) League 1 should be regarded as a miracle of sorts.

This doesn't have to be a case of tiki-taka at all. Might well be a case of an opponent just opting to just sit back and let him have the ball. I don't know how anyone could conclude that having 60% of possession would by default equal any kind of tiki-taka kind of play, or genuinely outplaying a team that steps up to a fight. Which nobody seriously can tell just by the information provided. Southampton and Swansea have the best average of possession in all of the Premier League, yet nobody would confuse them for Barcelona, and by actually looking at the play you would realize they don't excel in outplaying anyone, but amass much of their stats by playing keep ball in no pressure areas without much threatening (that's why they don't even come close to top of the table any despite their possession stats, which are superior to Arsenal, City, etc. etc.).

Usually those stats are the results of what has been argued here for though, a side encouraged to aggressively attack against a side sitting deep and either not providing enough cover which increases the likelyhood of the defending side to hit one on the break, or sometimes by bad luck hitting it too. Think the Bayern-Chelsea final of 2012 for roughly the kind of match argued about here, except with the human side encouraged to play more aggressively and penetrate both box and goal equally more aggressively. Still it would be interesting to have reliable data on one on one conversion rates in FM. However, even the Opta stat lumps together many difference kind of chances. No matter how closely you define a statistics (CCC, etc.), in the end, it will still be a bunch of different chances from different angles, spaces and distances lumped together, despite the statistics and numbers making it seem all equal.

If the genuine one on one conversion rates in real football and FM wouldn't compare, that might as such still be an issue of what type of one on ones are created, not their overall rate of conversion. Case in point would be a previous iteration of FM in which a positional split in between the centre backs inherent to the ME iteration made it easy to create one on ones from central positions. Unlike the AI which default tactics are always encouraged to create a wealth of different chances, it was the human player who could opt to exploit and focus on the issue at hand. But conversion of those one on ones was really poor (as it perhaps should be, but as these chances are naturally rare in real football as that positional split doesn't exist, who could tell?).

As this argument is all statistics, as argued by wwfan, the matches the OP dominates but doesn't win are statistically about onpar with real football. The correlation between dominating shots and winning is about 70%. The one between dominating possession and winning is less than 60%, which is no surprise, as possession statistics are less telling than dominating shots. Whilst those shots (as well as the passes that make and break the possession statistics) are naturally all of different quality, shots are still usually taken deep into enemy territory, which means the side regularly got to penetrate that. Dominating possession could mean the side just played keep ball in and around its own area without actually committing much forward and ever really genuinely threatening. In between these numbers you've got the reasons why there are roughly two genuinely distinctive and legit schools of football, though. One centers around genuinely outplaying oppositions, and one around getting the ball forward as quickly as possible (after having drawn the opposition out of position). As it is the first many human players focus on no matter context (as was apparent from all the download tactics throughout the years), to me it is naturally no surprise they deem themselves to be on the "receiving" end of such matches more regularly in general.

[Ackter]

However, if you do sort out your attacking play...

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/380873-Making-Messi-Messi(ish)?p=9350812&viewfull=1#post9350812

And yeah, I know quality is a difference here, but it's still proof of concept imo.

[kris0710]

Real world stats indicate that you only win 71% of your matches if you have a better shot count. As the OP suggested it was happening to him every 3-5 matches, we'll use 4 as the mean. The OP is thus winning 75% of his matches, but losing/drawing 25% of his matches when having a better shot count than his opponent.

It's a non-issue. The user needs to work out how to handle these matches and react to them when they look like happening. That's kind of the point of a management simulation.

Just checked through the 19 PL games i have had in my 2040/41 season.

I have had more shots that the opposition in 12 of the 19 games, winning 10 giving me a % of 83.333.

In the two games I've lost i have been battered in terms of efforts on goal, 32 to 12, 14 on target to 2 but in terms of CCC i only lost that battle 3 to 2.

In three of the remaining games that i have had less shots on goal i have won them all 1-0 while the final two were 1-1 and 2-2. This is because my side at set up to be strong at the back with plenty of midfield help. My goalkeepers according to the comparison are pretty poor for PL level. Of the 8 categories they are rated 6th, 11th, 14th, 15th, 16th, 19th, 19th and 20th. Yet we have conceded just 18 goals.

My defence come in between 8th and 18th in their categories too. But my tactics are decent...

I have scored 41 and conceded 18. I score with around 16.5% of my shots, the team score with nearly 39% of shots on target and around 18.5% of my shots are CCC.

As for the opposition they score against me with 8.49% of shots, 23.38% of their shots on target and their shots on goal to CCC ratio is at 13.68%.

Two seasons ago i had a totally different tactic that was very 'tika-taka' but did nothing in the final third. I could comfortably attempt around 900 passes a game but struggled to score a goal. Now i am settled with a tactic that gives the opposition around 54 to 60% possession every game yet in am sat 3rd in the PL with an average side.

Yes i get games i lose that i 'should' win but i win plenty more when i don't dominate. Don't get stuck in a trap where you just look at the stats and think things are working because you had more shots, more of the ball or a better pass %.

[Aim_Less]

I really am surprised by the amount of these threads. Instead of a rant OP, rather ask for advice.

we need an official rant tread ,basically vent your frustrations with the game here sort of thing

[laBOMBA]

Bristol City 3-2 Wolves

Shots: 6-25

On Target: 4-10

Fouls: 17-3

Possession: 41%-59%

CCC: 1-10

Corners: 0-9

and so on, you get the idea.

I cant take this any more, its ruining my entire experience of this game, anything I do feels meaningless beacuse every game comes down to the same question/coin toss before the match: "Will your striker be able to hit a barn door?" if so, continue match as useal, if not, then unless something incredible happens, I am not winning it, no mater what, as its almost impossible to take any points from a game where your striker has the finishing of a 5 year old. When 9/10 chances you create, no matter how good, nothing will come of it, its a handicap impossible to recover from.

These kinda games happen, abouslity I accept that, but no where NEAR this often, NOT one out of every 3-5 games, DOSENT HAPPEN. Whether is be Barcelona, Wolves or Aldershot, its always the same story, strikers are useless from any kind of 1 on 1 situation with the keeper every time, while still being able to drill it into the top corner from hard angles on a regualir basis. Zero logic

It speaks volumes when seeing my striker break their offside trap and storm the keeper no longer even gets me off my seat anymore, because I just now know that it isnt a "true" chance, which counterfits any kind of footballing logic.

Sigh..Im sorry, just so wound up from matches like this and needed to get this off my chest for abit, next game

Understandable... I am experiencing the same problem in my save with Belgian club Mons. I tried a few changes and found that the only thing that works for me is to get more players up front. I believe it has to do with my strikers not having enough composure, so i try to resolve it with getting more people up front and a shorter passing, work ball in box instruction. I now play with 3 defenders, 4 mids flat, 1 AMC and 2 strikers. Seems to work ok now as they pass the ball around until someone gets a CCC which they still often miss, but at least a few of them find the nets. It's basically passing around until someone has a clear shot at goal, sometimes even with the goalie out of position. Next season I'll try and find strikers with better composure.

The only problem is that our defence has big gaps which leads to scorelines along the lines of 6-5 etc.

[Evilyoshi]

Oh dear so many replys from a simple rage post :o

Just to let you know Ive since went on a 8 match win streak

Sorry all, I do think that idea of an official "aimless vent thread" would be a good idea, Id certainly make some use of it.