Football Manager 2014 - Update 14.3.1 Update FEEDBACK THREAD

[kingdalglish]

Please SI, I'm begging you, get rid of Tactic Familiarity in the full game of FM15.

It's garbage and is honestly the only thing i truly hate about this game.

I'll buy the game twice if you do.

Agree...it does absolutely nothing as does match training..the only thing that matters in this is game is having a brilliant tactic..

[SkinningForumVisitor]

You both couldn't be more wrong (apart from saying you don't like something, as that is opinion)

As for only a brilliant tactic? That was true in FM12 and before, but since then there is no wonder-tactic and almost every team goes through bad patches,

[allyc31]

You both couldn't be more wrong (apart from saying you don't like something, as that is opinion)

As for only a brilliant tactic? That was true in FM12 and before, but since then there is no wonder-tactic and almost every team goes through bad patches,

I don't think you should only have one tactic.

However, i stand by my initial post that TF is rubbish.

It shouldn't take 13-15 pre-season games for a team to learn how to play a simple 4231 control.

IMO it's just....dull.

[Cougar2010]

I don't think you should only have one tactic.

However, i stand by my initial post that TF is rubbish.

It shouldn't take 13-15 pre-season games for a team to learn how to play a simple 4231 control.

IMO it's just....dull.

If its taking you 13-15 games you are doing something wrong tbh.

I rarely play more than about 5/6 friendlies and have no problem having three tactics almost maxed out (90%+) by the start of the season.

[RTHerringbone]

Whilst I don't like Tactical Familiarity either, it isn't hard to get it to a good place if you follow Cleon's guide:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/375145-The-Santos-Project-Tactical-and-Player-Development?p=9225115&viewfull=1#post9225115

If, during this period you are busily signing players, it is likely to be that which is affecting the rate at which familiarity rises.

[allyc31]

Dude,

I'm following Cleons per-season guide almost to the letter (the only thing I'm not doing is playing the matches. I holiday until the 01/08/yyyy leaving my assistant to play them (Use Match Tactics is ticked))

[RTHerringbone]

almost to the letter

There's the issue

Don't get me wrong - I really dislike the feature in its current guise and am delighted that it isn't in FMC, but you can get it sorted if you follow that guide to the letter.

I think Tactics Familiarity in some form should exist in Football Manager, but whilst I dislike the current implementation of it, I'm damned if I can think of an alternative. Any suggestions?

[allyc31]

IMO it should be seriously nerfed the higher up the divisions you go.

Players in the PL (or equivalent) should grasp tactical ideas quicker than players in League 2.

Even then though, it shouldn't more than....say, 8 or 9 games (and 3-4 for top teams).

Signing 1-2 players shouldn't have any detrimental effect on TF...

It also shouldn't be so aggressive when you change something i.e. width.

That's all i got.

I would play FMC but i like player development too much.

[Norfair]

Alright, gonna summarize my thoughts on the patch now, after having played 1.5 seasons on it, and 8 full seasons on the old patch.

I think the game is easier now. Much easier. I've been with the same Man Utd for soon 10 seasons on this save, and the first 8 seasons I only won the league twice and was really struggling. After the patch, I immediately won the league and I was some 15 pts in the clear with ~10 games to go. Same this season, only halfway there but I feel extremely confident that we will win. I haven't changed tactics, my players are just about the same as earlier so I do think it was the patch that made it easier.

Not sure which I prefer tbh. Pre-patch, the game was a REAL challenge for me, but at the same time I just couldnt figure out what I was doing wrong. Every season I would hit a terrible slump, unable to get out of it. Almost every season anyway. Now it feels like I can just field any eleven and pretty much never lose a game. Think I lost 2 games last season or maybe even 1. Don't think my managerial skills got better overnight either.

But it's nice to be successful for a change

Still way too many own goals and SI really should do something about that. Same with woodwork shots and shots from bizarre angles and fluke goals.

Other than this, I'm really enjoying the game.

[SkinningForumVisitor]

Can you offer out your players who have agreed PCAs with other clubs in the same way you can buy your future PCAs?

Can you put waive compensation clauses in your own contract like you can your staff?

[tomtuck01]

I don't think you should only have one tactic.

However, i stand by my initial post that TF is rubbish.

It shouldn't take 13-15 pre-season games for a team to learn how to play a simple 4231 control.

IMO it's just....dull.

In my current save I moved clubs in mid July, played two friendlies with a brand new tactic for the team, and we won our first eight league games of the season. I reckon you can figure out that the tactic familiarity wasn't terribly high.

Basically I think you're putting far too much emphasis on tactic familiarity.

[HUNT3R]

I took charge of a new team and arranged 6 pre-season friendlies (which to me is an average amount). TF was almost fluid by the end. I had only 1 tactic up to that point so I added another, more defensive tactic for games I needed to see out. I won my first 5 games, comfortably.

[santy001]

Average teams seem to have a much better time of it at the moment in my save. Stoke, Hull, Reading, Forest, Leeds and myself as Leicester all getting up and around the top 4 seemingly gaining when not much is expected and over-performing. However, the following season with raised expectations they then suffer under the weight of them. Reading got promoted, finished 6th (after a good run at 4th) and then finished 17th the year after.

I'm bucking the trend, but my team are carried by the silk and steel tactic but with my own set piece instructions to make the most of Lacina Traore and several other six footers+ packing the box for long throws, corners and free kicks -

[allyc31]

In my current save I moved clubs in mid July, played two friendlies with a brand new tactic for the team, and we won our first eight league games of the season. I reckon you can figure out that the tactic familiarity wasn't terribly high.

Basically I think you're putting far too much emphasis on tactic familiarity.

Maybe, but i do notice a lot more silly mistakes the lower it is ie players running into each other etc.

So, maybe i am paying too much attention to it, but that won't change my opinion that the feature either needs updated or left out.

Anyway, i've said my piece so i'll leave it there.

[Dagenham_Dave]

Basically I think you're putting far too much emphasis on tactic familiarity.

This.

I rarely ever look at tactical familiarity now. Used to get a bit hung up on it, but it's really not that important. Sure, having everything fluid will be more of an advantage than not, but a good tactic with good players, and good in-game management will trump tactical familiarity every single time.

In my opinion.

[Soccer]

Just watched my reserve team played a match in an almost empty stadium.

My team scored a goal. As usual, my players ran towards the stand as if it's a full house, the goal scorer celebrated with a knee slide facing the stand. The others joined in shortly, gesturing towards the stand with joy.

It's kinda weird, as the stand is totally empty...not a big annoyance, though maybe the players could have had a more muted celebration (like players tapping the goal scorer's back, before returning to the middle of the pitch for kick-off)?

[Dedinho]

Just watched my reserve team played a match in an almost empty stadium.

My team scored a goal. As usual, my players ran towards the stand as if it's a full house, the goal scorer celebrated with a knee slide facing the stand. The others joined in shortly, gesturing towards the stand with joy.

It's kinda weird, as the stand is totally empty...not a big annoyance, though maybe the players could have had a more muted celebration (like players tapping the goal scorer's back, before returning to the middle of the pitch for kick-off)?

...or maybe he just let his imagination run wild, and you as a good manager shouldn't try and surpress his ways of expressing his feelings.

[braceletwinner]

It's a process of prioritisation.

Low priority bugs aren't fixed towards the end of the development cycle of an iteration of the game so resources can be better deployed on higher priority stuff. Those outstanding defects will then be addressed early in the development cycle of the next version.

Small stuff like a Physio randomly wandering onto the field of play shouldn't have a knock-on effect like a change to the ME, so you can be pretty confident that isolated, low-priority bugs like that will be picked up in FM15.

By "addressed" you mean "considered, then brushed aside". I write software for a living, and without exception, if I'm working on a project with multiple releases, the low priority defects just get pushed from release to release, with an extremely low percentage ever getting fixed (if they do, it's frequently because a higher priority issue is in the same section of code, and the development time is therefore minimal). It's just the nature of software development. If the bug won't cause people to not buy the next version (and from reading these forums, plenty of you will buy it on day one), why bother to fix it? As a developer, I find this appalling, but I understand the business decision, especially with a fan base as devoted as this one seems to be.

[Cougar2010]

By "addressed" you mean "considered, then brushed aside". I write software for a living, and without exception, if I'm working on a project with multiple releases, the low priority defects just get pushed from release to release, with an extremely low percentage ever getting fixed (if they do, it's frequently because a higher priority issue is in the same section of code, and the development time is therefore minimal). It's just the nature of software development. If the bug won't cause people to not buy the next version (and from reading these forums, plenty of you will buy it on day one), why bother to fix it? As a developer, I find this appalling, but I understand the business decision, especially with a fan base as devoted as this one seems to be.

Personally I think you underestimate SI and don't give them enough credit.

I reported a minor bug in FM13, it was logged but I was disappointed it wasn't fixed for FM14. Despite not seeing it mentioned again in the bugs forum it was fixed for 14.2.

[SkinningForumVisitor]

Can you offer out your players who have agreed PCAs with other clubs in the same way you can buy your future PCAs?

Can you put waive compensation clauses in your own contract like you can your staff?

If no, can we make it be?

Offer out players is a must. It is so silly when you offer out a soon out of contract player in Januaray for £0 and receive 8 bosman bids, then you must keep him till end season. you could say to teams they could have him now, and some would probably be interested, especially at £0

Waive compensation clauses in own contract. Maybe not at elite Champions teams, but at smaller grassroots it would be very believable

[braceletwinner]

You are confusing finished with perfect. There is no perfect game.

I offer one counter-example: Deus Ex. It's the only game with an ending that I regularly replay. It's simply amazing.

And you hit on another topic by bringing up "finished". With the ease of distributing patches, it's become the norm for software, but games especially, to be released in an unfinished state. I just went through the featured games on Steam, and many of them were "Early Access" or "Beta" games that you still had to pay for. They think that by issuing that disclaimer, they are immune to releasing a fully functioning product, which to me is ridiculous. I guess people still pay for them, but I really don't get why. I'm not accusing SI of doing this. I believe that they believe that they are releasing a finished product. But with the major changes that come in the patches, it seems they could have done with more developers and testers prior to release. And the fact that so many other games follow the get-it-out-the-door-quick model just gives SI cover to do what they're doing.

[cynet]

Even when it was championship manager the game was bugged and always needed patching.

SI are much quicker than some companies with regards to fixing and letting the general public know which has been there strongest point.

Seems these days though on the forums that there are more moderators than people posting which seems odd but then FM14 was probably one of the most troubled release to date.

But after this final patch the match engine is in a much better shape, not perfect but way so much better than the one we had in November.

[braceletwinner]

Personally I think you underestimate SI and don't give them enough credit.

I reported a minor bug in FM13, it was logged but I was disappointed it wasn't fixed for FM14. Despite not seeing it mentioned again in the bugs forum it was fixed for 14.2.

How am I not giving them enough credit? Are you saying that SI fix every single defect that's left over for the previous version? If not, them I am giving them plenty of credit for behaving like a for-profit company should.

[forameuss]

By "addressed" you mean "considered, then brushed aside". I write software for a living, and without exception, if I'm working on a project with multiple releases, the low priority defects just get pushed from release to release, with an extremely low percentage ever getting fixed (if they do, it's frequently because a higher priority issue is in the same section of code, and the development time is therefore minimal). It's just the nature of software development. If the bug won't cause people to not buy the next version (and from reading these forums, plenty of you will buy it on day one), why bother to fix it? As a developer, I find this appalling, but I understand the business decision, especially with a fan base as devoted as this one seems to be.

To be honest, it's hard to argue with you. It's good to see someone talking sense about the development process rather than the wild conjecture to be honest. In the cold, hard, realistic light of day, there are going to be things that fall through the cracks. That's unfortunate, but it's absolutely possible. The one bit I do disagree with you on is the "why bother to fix it" attitude. I don't think SI will have this - it'll be more like misplacing the bugs. They'll be ranked in terms of importance week-to-week, or possibly day-to-day, and the ones that are consistently at the bottom are always going to be less important than those at the top. In an ideal world, there comes a time where all the tiny things get worked on, but it's not an ideal world. Some will be fixed, some won't be. As a business, they have to hit the big ones.

ETA...

I just went through the featured games on Steam, and many of them were "Early Access" or "Beta" games that you still had to pay for. They think that by issuing that disclaimer, they are immune to releasing a fully functioning product, which to me is ridiculous. I guess people still pay for them, but I really don't get why.

Yup, totally agree. It's all too easy for a developer to fall into the habit of "well, we can patch it" rather than getting it right first time. But then a lot of that will come from it being pretty much impossible to get "right" first time, as being right is pretty subjective, especially in FM. SI are actually one of the better examples of development in this case, and there are ones that are absolutely atrocious. It seems that nowadays it just isn't essential for a game to be finished when it is released. What a world.

[Pelz]

Press coverage continually leaves a little to be desired. As an example, have been top of the table since game 2, we're now through 26 and eleven points clear, having lost one and drawn three all season and am forever receiving a news item along the lines of the following ''Better form in recent weeks has catapulted 'Your Team Name' into the top half of the table. Emerging as one of the form teams and though not expected to mount a challenge fans are pleased at the progress being made at the club''. The latter is as weak as the opening statement, seeing as we were also odds on at the start of the season to win the league.

Certainly need a little fine tuning.

[Cougar2010]

How am I not giving them enough credit? Are you saying that SI fix every single defect that's left over for the previous version? If not, them I am giving them plenty of credit for behaving like a for-profit company should.

You are giving the impression that you don't think they fix any low priority bugs leaving them from version to version which is simply not the case.

[Scotty Walds]

Just watched my reserve team played a match in an almost empty stadium.

My team scored a goal. As usual, my players ran towards the stand as if it's a full house, the goal scorer celebrated with a knee slide facing the stand. The others joined in shortly, gesturing towards the stand with joy.

It's kinda weird, as the stand is totally empty...not a big annoyance, though maybe the players could have had a more muted celebration (like players tapping the goal scorer's back, before returning to the middle of the pitch for kick-off)?

[goat101010]

You both couldn't be more wrong (apart from saying you don't like something, as that is opinion)

As for only a brilliant tactic? That was true in FM12 and before, but since then there is no wonder-tactic and almost every team goes through bad patches,

but it is still possible to win a league with one tactic all season on 14

[SkinningForumVisitor]

but it is still possible to win a league with one tactic all season on 14

yes, I said almost every team goes through bad patches. And yes you can win league with one tactic, and yes you can win league with bad patches....

The post I replied to suggested there existed tactics which were invincible.

You can win a league with one tactic all season on FM 14. Someone else could use the exact same tactic and fail miserably. It isn't a wonder tactic.

[Limmy]

The injuries in this update are becoming an absolute joke. Lost my best player for 8-9 months with an ACL, then 2 weeks later lose my star midfielder for 5 months, then a defender for 3 months and now I've just lost my star striker for the rest of the season after tearing his hamstring.

[HUNT3R]

The injuries in this update are becoming an absolute joke. Lost my best player for 8-9 months with an ACL, then 2 weeks later lose my star midfielder for 5 months, then a defender for 3 months and now I've just lost my star striker for the rest of the season after tearing his hamstring.

What is your General Training and Individual Training intensity? There are fewer injuries in FM than in real life, so it's something you're doing/not doing. It might just be an unlucky period, but it doesn't hurt to check.

[Dagenham_Dave]

The injuries in this update are becoming an absolute joke. Lost my best player for 8-9 months with an ACL, then 2 weeks later lose my star midfielder for 5 months, then a defender for 3 months and now I've just lost my star striker for the rest of the season after tearing his hamstring.

The injuries in 'this update' aren't a joke. What's happening is that you're suffering a higher than normal spate of injuries on YOUR SAVE.

Hope this helps.

[allyc31]

Is there some way to suiccessfully move the play you want to a different position if you have Allow Wide Players to swap selected?

For instance, i tried to swap my right winger and cf, however, i had to go back in twice due to it moving the player in that position instead of the actual player.

I've tried moving them on the tactics layout as well as the squad list.

[SkinningForumVisitor]

I'm so sick of being a "Media-shy" manager, just cos I can't be bothered answering the same question every week

[Nator]

I haven't enjoyed the tactical overhall very much. I rarely used the shouts on the last iterations and so for them to effectively replace the tactical instructions for me looked a little bit of a lazy way to fix the lack of realism in the sliders. Either way, they do not translate into a nice way of setting up a team and I feel sorry for anyone without an in-depth understanding of tactics. It really isn't remotely intuitive and it has led to people like myself spending more time in these forums (not always an enjoyable experience) than actually playing the game. I feel it's a major part in what has made this iteration easily the least enjoyable game in the series (I've been playing since 01/02).

The corners are absurd. I know 100% of mine will result in nothing, despite many attempts with different tactics. I'm currently playing as West Ham - not a small team in stature, yet every ball is cleared easily. My corners lead to nothing - at worst a counter attack for the opposition and a goal, and theirs are feared as my defenders seem to launch the ball into one another.

The goalkeeping is horribly hit and miss. The way they run off with the ball into touch for a corner looks horrible and really should be fixed, no questions asked.

Players running into each other in the middle of the park and (not tackling each other) randomly losing the ball looks very silly. Especially when its those playing at the highest level. Again, the animations are making the whole game look poorly finished.

Technically gifted players that stand still and wait to be tackled. The animation of it looks silly - surely they should at least attempt to dribble/pass/shield?

The volume of times that players get tackled and go flying.

Players making seriously odd decisions in their passing - launching it at opposition players for them to easily intercept makes the ME look horrible. See - cross field passes etc. I think this again is down to a very poorly conceived tactical set up. Exploit wings = launch the ball at wingers no matter the circumstances. It makes the players individual intelligence look stupid as they cant tell a safe pass from an absurd one that will never come off.

The ball and player reacting to one another really must be looked at as well. Balls that hit players in the back at 100mph and then bounce off in really unnatural ways make the ME look really bad.

Then there is an old ME bug bear - clearances etc that land perfectly into the oppositions feet. There is no movement from the opposition to meet the ball, making the game and ME look predetermined. I think this is a major part of what makes the game look so terrible. Players don't battle for the ball in the way they do in actual football, everything seems so static.

Another thing I have always wondered about - why doesn't the game have a facility to start the game with the original players and all the Jan transfers that happen IRL go in/out the Jan window? Surely this wouldn't be too hard to produce? Then people like myself who enjoy measuring ourselves against how the team has actually performed that season can see how they've done with the same players all season. For the record Fat Sam and I are on a par.

[Limmy]

Would usually agree with this but I've just lost another two players to long term injuries so that's 6 players all out for 4+ months.

And my training is set to general both team wise and individually, I make a point of never setting any individual schedule to heavy just incase I do end up with alot of players out. Most of the injuries have happened when the players have been on international duty also.

Don't get me wrong the update is great match engine wise etc, this is the only annoyance.

EDIT - @HUNT3R & DagenhamDave

[santy001]

There's an awful lot in that post, but the vast majority of it seems to be you confusing what the ME is doing, and what graphical animations SI have to represent what it is doing. They can be frustrating, but its a system being built from the bottom up with each iteration and ultimately to a game like FM the animations aren't the core feature of the game. There are those who will still be using the 2D engine or even just commentary. Other issues are certainly tactical however.

I can score corners for fun, with a simple set of instructions

Corner - Near Post

Attack Near Post - best jumper/header

Near post flick on - a good jumper/header

Challenge Keeper - pacey/agile player

Attack Far post - a good jumper/header

Stand on far post - ideally another pacey/agile player

Corners and long throws are that easy to make the most of by combining big players with nimble players around them. I don't know if the game tracks goals from corners/throw ins but if it does I would be interested in seeing the stats from my teams.

[HUNT3R]

Most of the injuries have happened when the players have been on international duty also.

So it's the fault of the international manager/managers then.

[Pelz]

11 mins 46 secs into a Champions League QF and the bar has already been hit four times (3-1)...

... This really, really has to be sorted. I've seen it mentioned, and even quoted it myself in an earlier complaint that the bar/post were still being hit too often, that the current ME average is only 0.1% higher than in real life - however, I am yet to go a season (13 full seasons in my current save, though I tallied a total from a season in a previous save of 131 and had Adam Mingay respond about it) without the bloody posts being hit over 120 times.

Sure, goals are not a problem, but it's slowly sucking all joy out of watching games... Really, really annoying... Turning me into a moaning old sod!

[offleyhornet]

I've lost count of the number of times a shot is quite clearly parried by the keeper for a corner, only for that same keeper to be awarded a free-kick!

This and the sheer volume of shots that crack the bar every game with a "_____ clearly didn't mean that!" in the commentary bar, and I think we have to expect an update.

It's fair in my opinion to expect one, SI have a duty to their fans to correct these issues.

[SkinningForumVisitor]

I've lost count of the number of times a shot is quite clearly parried by the keeper for a corner, only for that same keeper to be awarded a free-kick!

This and the sheer volume of shots that crack the bar every game with a "_____ clearly didn't mean that!" in the commentary bar, and I think we have to expect an update.

It's fair in my opinion to expect one, SI have a duty to their fans to correct these issues.

I've never seen the first one in a depressingly enormous amount of game hours, so it could be hard to fix if it isn't as prevalent as you make out

[Dagenham_Dave]

I've never seen the first one in a depressingly enormous amount of game hours, so it could be hard to fix if it isn't as prevalent as you make out

Nor have I.

And the 'didn't mean it' shots off the bar aren't that common either. People just remember them more when they happen as it's been posted here over and over. See 'corners' during the last update.

EDIT - Just checked my last 20 matches, and the total amount of times the woodwork has been hit is 13. And only once was it hit more than once in a match.

I guess it might depend on how attacking your team is. If you're having an insane amount of shots every game (30+), then there will probably be more chance of the bar or post being hit during a game.

[offleyhornet]

I've never seen the first one in a depressingly enormous amount of game hours, so it could be hard to fix if it isn't as prevalent as you make out

Sorry, I meant a goal kick.

Ok, what about the second one?

What about the game constantly messing up kit colours of one or both sides on match days? My team are wearing a kit that doesn't exist, against a team where their home (or away kit that's been used once all season) doesn't clash!

[Dagenham_Dave]

What about the game constantly messing up kit colours of one or both sides on match days? My team are wearing a kit that doesn't exist, against a team where their home (or away kit that's been used once all season) doesn't clash!

Nope, never saw that either. I've seen occasions where I've thought a kit change may have been unnecessary (happens IRL too though), but not once has my team wore a kit that 'doesn't exist'.

Are you playing the same game here?

[offleyhornet]

Nope, never saw that either. I've seen occasions where I've thought a kit change may have been unnecessary (happens IRL too though), but not once has my team wore a kit that 'doesn't exist'.

Are you playing the same game here?

Well it happens to me all the time, both home and away.

I'm playing the 14.3 patch. What version are you playing?

[Dagenham_Dave]

Well it happens to me all the time, both home and away.

I'm playing the 14.3 patch. What version are you playing?

Same.

I've got about four saves on the go, all with different teams, and I've honestly never encountered this. And in fact the times when my team or the oppostion have worn the 2nd choice kit when I think they didn't need to is pretty infrequent. I can't honestly remember the last time it happened in fact.

It could depend what team you are of course, and if parts of your club's kit will regularly clash with your opponents.

[offleyhornet]

Same.

I've got about four saves on the go, all with different teams, and I've honestly never encountered this. And in fact the times when my team or the oppostion have worn the 2nd choice kit when I think they didn't need to is pretty infrequent. I can't honestly remember the last time it happened in fact.

It could depend what team you are of course, and if parts of your club's kit will regularly clash with your opponents.

I'm playing as Watford, in yellow and black so there are very rarely kit clashes. When the bug occures, sometimes it happens to me and sometimes it happens to the opposition, sometimes both.

[HUNT3R]

I'm playing as Watford, in yellow and black so there are very rarely kit clashes. When the bug occures, sometimes it happens to me and sometimes it happens to the opposition, sometimes both.

If it happens as frequently as you say, you should really upload the pkm files that SI asked for in your thread in the Bugs Forum.

[marcuscicero]

I offer one counter-example: Deus Ex. It's the only game with an ending that I regularly replay. It's simply amazing.

And you hit on another topic by bringing up "finished". With the ease of distributing patches, it's become the norm for software, but games especially, to be released in an unfinished state. I just went through the featured games on Steam, and many of them were "Early Access" or "Beta" games that you still had to pay for. They think that by issuing that disclaimer, they are immune to releasing a fully functioning product, which to me is ridiculous. I guess people still pay for them, but I really don't get why. I'm not accusing SI of doing this. I believe that they believe that they are releasing a finished product. But with the major changes that come in the patches, it seems they could have done with more developers and testers prior to release. And the fact that so many other games follow the get-it-out-the-door-quick model just gives SI cover to do what they're doing.

This. Loud and Clear. Where have all the SI representatives gone?

[themadsheep2001]

This. Loud and Clear. Where have all the SI representatives gone?

Given that's 1:07am, probably asleep.