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Neil Brock

Football Manager 2014 - Update 14.3.1 Update FEEDBACK THREAD

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Seriously, this issue is almost certainly tactical.

Dreamerko and jimbob1000 posted similar observations again and again and again, and yet never took the opportunity to post their tactical set ups - which were requested again and again and again.

out.

Looking solely at numbers it is easy to see how someone could fall into that trap and conclude that tactics shouldn't influence chance conversion, be it CCC conversion or half chance conversion or whatever. By reducing something to mere numbers, everything is reduced to be the exact same. Beyond the numbers that is not the case. The only line of flawed reasoning that would see anyone jump to conclusions that conversion ratio's wouldn't be influenced by tactics is this:

The ME doesn't go through sequences of play, it arbitrarily drums those up to suit statistics it calculated. So that beneath the numbers, unlike in real football, everything would actually be the same. Which officially stated is wrong. The ME produces sequences of play, goes through the 90 minutes of match action, and this turns into statistics, as in football, not the other way around. Therefore by your tactics you influence firstly what type of chances there are created, how they are created and from which position and angle, and then who finishes them off from where: If all you focus on is one finisher for instance you risk your conversion taking a bit of a dive each time he is out of form, grows complacent, nervous or is not fit, for instance.

Remember that even a category as rigidly defined as Opta's CCC is a category of many attempts being lumped together in an attempt at classifying finishes:

[...]The data is very subjective as their a lot of variables involved when measuring a clear cut chance and Opta do not distinguish one clear cut chance from another. For example, both a penalty and a one on one with a goalkeeper are recorded as clear cut chances and the distance away from goal is not taken into consideration.

I've never personally taken much into the "half chances" being created. Firstly, what the heck is even a half chance? Secondly, it evidently doesn't even need to be on target. Trying to judge efficiency by purely looking at statistics I'm much more inclined to look at shots/shots on target statistics. A shot that went on target is typically indicative of the finisher finding enough time and space to get that shot on target. A half chance to me could be anything, and as it often evidently misses target, is not telling of much except maybe the distance to goal or whatever is taken into account.

I've personally had many countering sides in FM myself throughout the years, and what you typically get by sitting deep and inviting pressure whilst trying to hit on the break is a better Shot/shot on target ratio thus, which is also frequently reflected in matches in which one side sits back and the other is "dominating". If all of the fewer shots of such an opponent are suddenly on target (or your own are all off), that's a much better means of assessing to me than looking at any of those dubious half chances. It could mean that you play far too risky, or in the latter case make things rush far too much (or don't create a multitude of chance types, but rather channel play in exactly the same way to always the same finisher; or force your players to bad options by compressing space and denying options in the final third).

In any case, it has been shown many times that a human player cannot only match but outperform the AI in terms of chance conversion regularly. FM 2014 would be a first, as far as I'm aware.

What I can't accept is that there are FM reasons for doing it, but that there are not football reasons for doing it.

There is a 100% football reasoning behind the general advice to have an attacking fullback. He will be regularly one who will provide wide means of ball retention in the final third, support the wide player and provide balls from angled positions. Without him this is gone. Still it's but a rough guideline, and if you know why this is advisable, you can break that rule. I think the standard advice is exactly given to combat the many frustrations faced by FM players throughout the years: the problems of breaking down a team parking the bus should it not concede from set piece or early on but rather hang on by giving advice to provide movement and wide options also (hence in the latter case that FB(A)), but also the channeling of play to a single, possible isolated forward which can also prove problematic similarily. It's all fairly vanilla, but just by following it to the T you have most of the basics covered, which is movement in between your lines, various types of chances, etc.

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Whan a player is set to Attack, his movement is set to Run From Deep Often (in old terms). This is a setting that is meant to make the player look to push forward into an attacking position asap after the team gains possession. The players on Attack are "leading the lines", so to speak.

Now, why would a wide defender be among those who lead the lines in attack? That makes no sense! In real life, attacking full backs like Ivanovic join the attack on longer build-ups, providing wide options or overlap options once the initial chance to launch a quick break-away is gone and the team instead opts to build up pressure and fill the box with more men.

The way FM makes a full-back/wing-back on Attack behave, there are some very specific requirements for roles and player types around him that is necessary for that to work. Since he bolts forward like Forrest Gump the nano-second you get hold of the ball, players around him must be set to use that early option either first time, or at the very least before he reaches the offside line. Defensive roles meant to play simple, risk-free passes won't use him, and "simple" players won't know how.

What I mean to say here is; set him to Automatic. He will then likely be set to "attack" automatically when you click on the Attacking strategy - and knowing that this is such an aggressive philosophy that it should be used with care and consideration in FM14, I'd say that nobody should EVER simply set one FB to Attack and the other Support (or whatever the guide proposes) without a thought-out plan for how the space behind them should be covered when they're "Gumping" forward.

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Whan a player is set to Attack, his movement is set to Run From Deep Often (in old terms). This is a setting that is meant to make the player look to push forward into an attacking position asap after the team gains possession. The players on Attack are "leading the lines", so to speak.

The timing of the run is being connected to the "mentality". The "Look for overlap" instructions makes use of this, by amongst other maximizing mentality settings for your FBs, which encouarges him to time the run ASAP to create that overlap. This wasn't intuitive in any kind of way, but it's gone.

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Now, why would a wide defender be among those who lead the lines in attack? That makes no sense! In real life, attacking full backs like Ivanovic join the attack on longer build-ups, providing wide options or overlap options once the initial chance to launch a quick break-away is gone and the team instead opts to build up pressure and fill the box with more men.

There is no way I would describe Ivanovic's role as an attacking fullback in FM speak, he is much more akin to a supporting fullback.

For an attacking full back you need to look more at a typical Brazilian tactic from 10/20 years ago, 4222 was fairly common then as a general shape with two DMs & two MCs leaving the fullbacks to provide the width going forwards. Someone like Roberto Carlos was much more of an attacking fullback.

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Guest El Payaso
If you think there are half chances, and other chances, not being marked correctly, then certainly raise them.
It's really hard to go back to your played matches and find them but in my recent game, there was atleast one.

53216f3a8a72c.jpg

The game didn't count this chance even as a half chance. Torres easily scored from this. There were also few more occasions: like Torres setting up Willian to take a free shot from five metres which was described as a half chance because there were two Stoke players between Willian and the goal after the shot was taken, the fact is though that the shot was free and from easy position and no-one blocked it. Van Ginkel also had a free header from three meters but that was from narrow angle. Also some free shots from somewhere like 10 meters weren't even HCs.

Has anyone else noticed how bad defensive players are inside their own penalty area? Stoke should be dominating me inside their own area but I got something like 15-20 shots from inside the penalty area and only 2 of them were blocked:

5321717e98404.jpg

Stoke also played short passes to inside my penalty area and you also see some passing combinations inside the area when there are loads of defending players inside the area and these plays often end up to shots that aren't even blocked. Not to mention the marking errors inside the area...

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As for diagonal balls behind the fullbacks its maybe a bit more clinical than IRL but it is a weak point in a back four and an area a team looks to attack IRL.

This is something that is really bugging me, the fullbacks seem to "sleep" when the ball is played diagonal in behind them. You can see the move opening up, yet I seem to be screaming at my full back to notice what I can see in front of me, yet they don't react, or react too late, and the winger is in...

Tried tweaking my tactics, but I presume its just bugged?

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I don't get why SI went away from fm12 - it was balanced and if people wanted to exploit the match engine and have some fun they could.. miss those days!

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I don't get why SI went away from fm12 - it was balanced and if people wanted to exploit the match engine and have some fun they could.. miss those days!

You know you can still play it, yes?

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People don't have time to spend 6 hours a day to spend on the game (the people who succeed are the ones who tinker the game constantly) plug and play should still exist and it doesn't ... this game is not flawed it just requires too much 'experience' and if you are a newbie you have NO CHANCE! if SI would allow exploits or 'difficulty' setting no one would moan cause at the end of the day - if you want to spend your life on it you put a hard difficulty, if you want to play a few hours and have fun and win then you put it easy mode...

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People don't have time to spend 6 hours a day to spend on the game (the people who succeed are the ones who tinker the game constantly) plug and play should still exist and it doesn't ... this game is not flawed it just requires too much 'experience' and if you are a newbie you have NO CHANCE! if SI would allow exploits or 'difficulty' setting no one would moan cause at the end of the day - if you want to spend your life on it you put a hard difficulty, if you want to play a few hours and have fun and win then you put it easy mode...

There are exploits in this game.

Full backs don't defend or track runners, so many goals are conceded to simple through balls exploiting that area. They do however, because of the previous get themselves into absurd goal scoring positions, more so if you don't use wingers.

So, pro tip. Because they don't defend anyway, put strikers in the full back positions. Profit

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There is no way I would describe Ivanovic's role as an attacking fullback in FM speak, he is much more akin to a supporting fullback.

For an attacking full back you need to look more at a typical Brazilian tactic from 10/20 years ago, 4222 was fairly common then as a general shape with two DMs & two MCs leaving the fullbacks to provide the width going forwards. Someone like Roberto Carlos was much more of an attacking fullback.

Yes but even Roberto Carlos' role was not to launch quick attacks and lead the transition stage from defending to attacking. He overlapped and cut inside on longer build-ups. The point is that setting a full back or wing back to Attack as a rule is a very extreme measure that requires specific countermeasures to limit what is a huge risk.

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People don't have time to spend 6 hours a day to spend on the game (the people who succeed are the ones who tinker the game constantly) plug and play should still exist and it doesn't ... this game is not flawed it just requires too much 'experience' and if you are a newbie you have NO CHANCE! if SI would allow exploits or 'difficulty' setting no one would moan cause at the end of the day - if you want to spend your life on it you put a hard difficulty, if you want to play a few hours and have fun and win then you put it easy mode...

Not good at the game, declare it impossible, blame the game, sorted.

Really, it is not impossible to play, and you certainly don't need to spend that amount of time on the game. I've seen plenty of people succeed without tinkering.

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Yes but even Roberto Carlos' role was not to launch quick attacks and lead the transition stage from defending to attacking. He overlapped and cut inside on longer build-ups. The point is that setting a full back or wing back to Attack as a rule is a very extreme measure that requires specific countermeasures to limit what is a huge risk.

That's precisely why you either have a DM covering or a CM on defend.

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There are exploits in this game.

Full backs don't defend or track runners, so many goals are conceded to simple through balls exploiting that area. They do however, because of the previous get themselves into absurd goal scoring positions, more so if you don't use wingers.

So, pro tip. Because they don't defend anyway, put strikers in the full back positions. Profit

Fullbacks defend. The problem is that watching the game on Key or even Extended, is that we see these "sleeping" moments often and never when they actually do defend because it isn't highlight worthy.

It also looks worse because it looks like the fullback is completely unaware of the run. Not sure if he is, though. In those moments they don't react soon enough, even if they were asleep.

I also realise that through balls played between DC and FB are a little OP.

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They do sleep far too often though. You can forgive mistakes, the odd switch off on concentration, but its seems to happen regardless of who the full back is.

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They do sleep far too often though. You can forgive mistakes, the odd switch off on concentration, but its seems to happen regardless of who the full back is.

I personally wouldn't call it sleep at all. When you watch the games there are several reasons why the winger gets behind the fullback, sometimes he simply lacks the pace, others he has been dragged away from his position leaving the winger more space, sometimes the winger simply makes a good run when the fullback is focused on the ball/other players, sometimes he is tiring, sometimes he lacks the mental attributes etc etc.

Its not like this doesn't happen IRL either, its what wide players do constantly during games, trying to exploit the space in the channels and behind the fullbacks. It does seem like it happens a little more often in FM compared to RL but I don't feel its that excessive.

Looking at my own current tactic I play with a lone striker who drops off the front with one of the wide players looking to exploit the space created while the other holds his runs more. In one save my AMR scored 18 goals in the season which isn't miles out for what is the main goal threat in the team. I've also started using a tweaked version of the tactic for my new Hong Kong save and again last season the AMR finished as top scorer on 11 goals in around 25-30apps. Given not all of their goals are scored in this fashion and even the ones that are can differ in several ways I don't feel its that much of an exploit in bug terms.

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Fullbacks defend. The problem is that watching the game on Key or even Extended, is that we see these "sleeping" moments often and never when they actually do defend because it isn't highlight worthy.

It also looks worse because it looks like the fullback is completely unaware of the run. Not sure if he is, though. In those moments they don't react soon enough, even if they were asleep.

I also realise that through balls played between DC and FB are a little OP.

They are indeed OP. I thought I would try out my theory though. I just won the FA cup final and Champs final with Rooney and Wellbeck in Fullback Position. So...

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They are indeed OP. I thought I would try out my theory though. I just won the FA cup final and Champs final with Rooney and Wellbeck in Fullback Position. So...

I presume they were set to FB(A) then?

I've never once played this version of FM with my fullbacks set to attack, always have them on defend or support.

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I presume they were set to FB(A) then?

I've never once played this version of FM with my fullbacks set to attack, always have them on defend or support.

Automatic.

I didn't concede a goal in those games either.

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Not good at the game, declare it impossible, blame the game, sorted.

Really, it is not impossible to play, and you certainly don't need to spend that amount of time on the game. I've seen plenty of people succeed without tinkering.

Not good at the game I know I just won the CL with Frankfurt 2nd season... just took me ages as I had to watch all my games extended and tinker with my tactic constantly.. nice comment!

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Interesting, I just find it bizarre that you could play a striker at FB, and it be effective :D

I remember in CM97/98 I used to put a long arrow from LB to between the strikers, and he'd comfortably get 10-15 goals a season from it :D

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Interesting, I just find it bizarre that you could play a striker at FB, and it be effective :D

I remember in CM97/98 I used to put a long arrow from LB to between the strikers, and he'd comfortably get 10-15 goals a season from it :D

It's darn bizarre. FM does kinda exist somewhere in it's own universe though. I've tested striker-less formations with defenders in 3 AM position have them score a butt load too. I might even try a season with defenders up front.

As long as a player doesn't take more than 2 touches, or if they hit the ball on the half volley, seems like anyone with any stat can score from anywhere.

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I presume that even though the FB is set to Automatic, you have specific instructions allowing him to push as far forward as possible?

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I presume that even though the FB is set to Automatic, you have specific instructions allowing him to push as far forward as possible?

Absolutely no player instructions :D

Edit: That's a lie, I have PI on my counter strategy, but I rarely use that, otherwise none

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I'm with Cougar on this. :thup:

I can accept that the people that wrote the 12 step guide know what they are talking about. I can even accept that they are better at the game than me, (It's not that hard). What I can't accept is that there are FM reasons for doing it, but that there are not football reasons for doing it. As a result, despite me knowing it will be putting me at a disadvantage, I have never done it, (actually very very very rarely is more accurate). I occasionally go from (s) to (a) with full-backs but if I have a centre-half filling in at full-back, (usually the right), then it seems silly to get him more out of his comfort zone than he already is so I just leave him alone and.

Don't feel forced to do it if you don't want. I'm doing ok, (better than ok even), and I don't do it.

The other thing is, (as well as real footballing reasons), I have having problems with getting my head around exactly why this works within FM. The idea given was something along the line of "it encourages movement within the lines". Now what that means exactly is anyone's guess but I took it to mean that it encouraged the full-back to initially support the midfield, but then actually push on and get ahead of them, linking up with the attack. Now the stupid question that I have been unable to answer when thinking about this is..... If it works so well, why don't I want both full-backs on attacking rather than one? After all I have a DM sitting in front of my 2 centre-backs so what;s the problem?

In real life you might encourage your full-backs to be disciplined in that they take it in turns to go forward, but you would never say for 1 to attack and the other not simly because. (I mean you might tell them that bit that would be down to more individual tactics rather than some over-riding all-encompassing strategy. I don't understand it therefore I can't use it. If I am using it without understanding it and it's not working for me, hoe on Earth am I meant to tweak it?

Having an attacking full back doesn't work hence why I posted the question!!! ;-)

Must say this was my point many hundreds of threads before that I feel like I am actually trying to play the ME rather than play logical football tactics. Unless you have Roberto Carlos I wouldn't play an attacking full back but kind of felt forced into using one because it seems that 95% of the tactics on this forum have an attacking full back and a supporting wide player usually coupled with a defensive midfielder on the attacking full backs side to cover that full back (See what I mean about playing the ME rather than football!!) . If you are looking at real life surely the most aggressive you would make your full backs if you are an average team with a back four is support. I mean what if you have two good attacking wingers ? Play one as support with a donkey performing an attacking full back role? I don't think so.

When I coached the game with regard to defending we used to tell kids to imagine they were attached to a very long rope. If one full back went forward the other tucked in to make a back three and vice versa. It's basics defending and I think it was Wwfan and apologies to him if it wasn't but he said that whilst he agreed with me (which was rare!) it was difficult to implement that in FM. So thus rendering one of the most basic moves in defending useless in FM!!

I might try just having the full backs on support or go for the automatic route on more players as specific duties aren't doing it for me.

I wonder actually how full backs on support or even defend would perform with "overlap" ticked?

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I have seen this reported before, but wrongly assumed that would have been resolved with the patch.

I'm trying to buy a young Brazilian right back but when I have an offer accepted by his club, he says...

my client isn't currently interested in entering into contract negotiations with your club.

So then I try to unsettle him and he says this in the media.

To play like a team like San Marino is what all players dream about. I hope this speculation results in a formal bid.

Great. Brilliant in fact.

Then I approach his club again, get a deal done on the value on for him to say this when it comes to negotiating his contract.

my client isn't currently interested in entering into contract negotiations with your club.

:confused:

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Having an attacking full back doesn't work hence why I posted the question!!! ;-)

Must say this was my point many hundreds of threads before that I feel like I am actually trying to play the ME rather than play logical football tactics. Unless you have Roberto Carlos I wouldn't play an attacking full back but kind of felt forced into using one because it seems that 95% of the tactics on this forum have an attacking full back and a supporting wide player usually coupled with a defensive midfielder on the attacking full backs side to cover that full back (See what I mean about playing the ME rather than football!!) . If you are looking at real life surely the most aggressive you would make your full backs if you are an average team with a back four is support. I mean what if you have two good attacking wingers ? Play one as support with a donkey performing an attacking full back role? I don't think so.

When I coached the game with regard to defending we used to tell kids to imagine they were attached to a very long rope. If one full back went forward the other tucked in to make a back three and vice versa. It's basics defending and I think it was Wwfan and apologies to him if it wasn't but he said that whilst he agreed with me (which was rare!) it was difficult to implement that in FM. So thus rendering one of the most basic moves in defending useless in FM!!

I might try just having the full backs on support or go for the automatic route on more players as specific duties aren't doing it for me.

I wonder actually how full backs on support or even defend would perform with "overlap" ticked?

Well I have (s) as my standard, but I am increasingly setting them to (a) at home, and it seems to be working quite well. I have looked at overlap, but I don't like it because I like my left winger to stay wide so it changes how he plays and I don't like that. When he doesn't play however, I like the overlap option because I have an IF on the right, and I don't mind my 2nd choice LW being forced inside. I'm about to play a game with my left winger suspended so this would be a perfect opportunity to test this, (except that I am playing away from home and fielding a much weakened team so I am expecting a beating anyway).

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I presume that even though the FB is set to Automatic, you have specific instructions allowing him to push as far forward as possible?

If they are set to automatic, they will adjust based on mentalities. On more aggressive mentalities such as attack/overload, they will be attacking fbs, for instance.

It's darn bizarre. FM does kinda exist somewhere in it's own universe though.

It does and always will be, as it's always going to be an aproximization of a simple looking game complex enough that nobody truly fully understands it and top level punditry gets repeatedly away with spouting unproven nonsense. :D

Naturally there is no real-football scenario to compare your experiments to. But there is a penalty for players being out of position. What it looks like only the coders now, presumably it's a hit on some stats (likely mental ones). What this means with class and outstanding players for their level is that they can still be better performers than average ones on their league level even when played out of position. Their attributes will still be reasonable enough. I once deliberately fielded every Bayern player out of position though (not in completely idiotic ways though, such as putter Neuer as striker or Ribery as CB, mind), and was sacked come October in a previous iteration, though. Still to get a performance, the catch is that the attributes need to fit. Put Messi and Neymar as CBs at Barcelona and mix it around like in ways equally similar, and you will suffer even with sides with which you can do barely anything wrong due to their individual strength winning you games all alone. I tried that too (on a previous iteration): http://www.pic-upload.de/view-20784973/barca.png.html

No matter your gut felt claims, attributes are weighted in, and as such there's a reason why you typically see prolific strikers leading the goal scoring charts, the best dribblers making the most runs, and the best passers having the best pass completion rates etc. by and large if you look through league statistics. It would be quite easy to for SI to make that hit even bigger if someone is played out of position, though. The question would be if that is a requirement, and what to judge this by? Whilst some players are more fluid than others, it's not as if Wayne would suddenly turn into someone raised on heavy diets of ballet dancing rather than top class professional football just because he's placed someplace else on the pitch and asked to do different things with and without the ball. :)

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Well just tried this at Home.

---------------------GK (D)------------------------

FB (AUTO)------CB (D)--CB (D)-----------FB (AUTO)

-------------DM (S)--------DM (S)----------------

RW (A)-------------CM (AUTO)-------------LW (A)

---------------------TM (A)------------------------

attacking/fluid

Shouts - Hassle, get stuck in, overlap

Went with basic roles on the whole rather than specialist roles.

Won my first game in 6 by a 3-1 score line and missed a penalty. Only one shot on target conceded rather than the usual 20 and that was when I tried to go to a counter mentality. Both my CM who scored and one full back who were both on automatic had ratings above 7.5.

Go figure!!!!

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I have seen this reported before, but wrongly assumed that would have been resolved with the patch.

I'm trying to buy a young Brazilian right back but when I have an offer accepted by his club, he says...

So then I try to unsettle him and he says this in the media.

Great. Brilliant in fact.

Then I approach his club again, get a deal done on the value on for him to say this when it comes to negotiating his contract.

:confused:

Still a known but unresolved bug, Jimbo.

Players will also happily come on trial with no intention of discussing a contract.

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I have seen this reported before, but wrongly assumed that would have been resolved with the patch.

I'm trying to buy a young Brazilian right back but when I have an offer accepted by his club, he says...

So then I try to unsettle him and he says this in the media.

Great. Brilliant in fact.

Then I approach his club again, get a deal done on the value on for him to say this when it comes to negotiating his contract.

:confused:

Now the game is ripping the pee.

Soares' agent has sent you a fax suggesting that the Sao Paulo player might be interested in joining your club.

Any deal would of course be subject to you negotiating a fee with his current club.

Ok. Let's have another go.

my client isn't currently interested in entering into contract negotiations with your club.

What exactly did they fix in the patch because I never looked? Is there a fix list somewhere?

Please tell me that the facilities/planning bug was fixed. Please please please. :(

[Edit]

1. Ok. have found it.

2. No they didn't! (I give up. I literally give up). :(

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Guest El Payaso

5321b23c5190c.jpg5321b4e1c0c5d.jpg

1. Apparently this also is only a half chance. Luiz takes a free-kick which Hennessey parries straight to Hazard who is completely free, keeper on the ground and whole goal open. He missed the chance and it only was counted as a HC.

2. Not even a half chance. A bit narrow angle yes, but no-one there to block the shot and able to take the shot with better foot. Quality player (IRL) would propably pass the ball to far corner quite easily. Schürrle missed.

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Anyone who either uses short corners or has a short option available on mixed, do you have trouble getting the recipient to cross?

I want him to receive the ball and then cross from the different angle, but all he seems to do is take the ball and then hit it backwards to the top of the box? The attack is usually lost at this point so I don't understand the point of having a short option, other than to drag a defender out.

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Right. I was stupidly under the impression that "The Facilities bug", (whereby the board agree to upgrade various facilities at the club only for it to be delayed and delayed and delayed and delayed, until it eventually just vanishes), would be sorted in the patch. It seems now that it hasn't been fixed at all.

I have now gone 11 seasons since my last upgrade and in that time our facilities have actually been downgraded twice as a result of technological advancements, (so we are actually going backwards not forwards).

1. Does anyone know, (or even just have any suggestions), as to what the cause of this is?

2. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what if any workarounds there might be in this area.

If there isn't a workaround and it's going to stay like this forever, (and actually continue to get worse), then I might as well just stop now. You can't do something like the San Marino challenge with facilities that can't be improved.

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Anyone who either uses short corners or has a short option available on mixed, do you have trouble getting the recipient to cross?

I want him to receive the ball and then cross from the different angle, but all he seems to do is take the ball and then hit it backwards to the top of the box? The attack is usually lost at this point so I don't understand the point of having a short option, other than to drag a defender out.

What are the crossing instructions of that particular player/position? Maybe that's a possible solution. ie. set it to cross to far post or something.

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Also Jim not all fixes are listed on the change list. It's possible that particular bug has been fixed and not noted.

Also I note you are as exasperated with this update as I currently am so I feel good about that :cool:

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Also Jim not all fixes are listed on the change list. It's possible that particular bug has been fixed and not noted.

Also I note you are as exasperated with this update as I currently am so I feel good about that :cool:

Well I hadn't even looked at the fix list until now if I'm honest. I just assumed that stuff like this would have been sorted.

How are you meant to know what has been fixed and not fixed if it's not on the fix list?

To be honest I've been less than impressed all the way through with this last patch, (I think it made the game too easy in parts), but maybe that's just me stumbling upon A tactic/player combination that works for me. Most people seem happy with it. Everything that I have moaned about since the patch is annoying rather than significant, but this facilities thing is the exception. I can't continue my game like this. There is just no point. What is the point in Managing San Marino club side with a view to gaining success with them and improving facilities to then improve better quality San Marino NT players if the facilities never actually get improved no matter how well I am doing or how much money we have to spend?

:(

[Edit]

ps. Any more gloating like that and you are going back on my list! :lol:

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People don't have time to spend 6 hours a day to spend on the game (the people who succeed are the ones who tinker the game constantly) plug and play should still exist and it doesn't ... this game is not flawed it just requires too much 'experience' and if you are a newbie you have NO CHANCE! if SI would allow exploits or 'difficulty' setting no one would moan cause at the end of the day - if you want to spend your life on it you put a hard difficulty, if you want to play a few hours and have fun and win then you put it easy mode...

It's about perception because I've always believed those who tinker everything game by game are the one's who struggle.

I have one tactic, with two different sets of 'shouts', one the default to score goals which is 90% of the time, the other to defend a lead with 15 minutes to go if I think it's needed. I use that same framework for every game, for every team I manage, whatever the weather or state of pitch at whatever level I'm playing at against whoever that might be. Underdog, clear favourite or my equal.

And I win ok.

I do agree it's hard to see where you're going wrong on a game, but I'm a "get the best players for the positions and roles that cover more of the pitch than the opposition" kind of guy tactical non-guru. It's a great game for the tactical tinkerers I'm sure, but I can't be arsed.

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For those who think the AI keepers/teams have an unfair advantage and only need a couple of chances to score.

I'm managing Hibs...

iVdiHqj.jpg

:D

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There still seems to be problems with wingers, they ignore simple cutbacks/crosses/passes that would leave an open goal about 95% of the time, it's really silly

This is with every instruction telling them not to, and they don't even have any PPMs that would make them do this

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For those who think the AI keepers/teams have an unfair advantage and only need a couple of chances to score.

I'm managing Hibs...

iVdiHqj.jpg

:D

Of course they don't have an unfair advantage, one just needs to look at the AI vs AI teams to see that results like this happen every match day between AI teams as well.

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I just somehow scored direct from a cross from the actual byline - it doesn't just happen in the AI's favour!

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There still seems to be problems with wingers, they ignore simple cutbacks/crosses/passes that would leave an open goal about 95% of the time, it's really silly

This is with every instruction telling them not to, and they don't even have any PPMs that would make them do this

That's actually an area of the ME that I find much improved with the latest patch.

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That's actually an area of the ME that I find much improved with the latest patch.

I'd agree with this, whenever I watch real life games I spend a lot of the time trying to figure out why a professional footballer did not see the easy pass & instead just smashed the ball wide of post.

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I thought I would make a point of this, cos woodwork incidents are beyond boring now. I decided to gather some data from 25 competitive matches in the Northern Irish 3rd tier and various cups against all kinds of teams in that country.

My findings:

- Human team: 18 woods in 25 = 0.72 per match

- AI teams: 10 woods in 25 = 0.4 per match

- Overall: 28 woods in 25 matches = 1.12 per match!!! Incredible!

- 2 matches with 4 woods

- 1 match with 3 woods

- 3 matches with 2 woods

- 8 matches with 1 wood

- 9 matches with 0 woods

I really doubt that these stats are true to life. I'd even bet money if i was a gambler.

All we keep hearing is that "it wont be fixed" or "no more patches" etc. Well why? Just make the shots go over or wide? It doesnt make it totally unplayable but it is so annoying! The problem is that is doesnt give an accurate representation(compared to real life) of how effective the chances are that you're creating, how accurate the shooting is etc. It just feels like another tactic to keep the scores down like super-keepers or CCC's/one-on-ones being shot straight at the keeper. This was never a problem on finished ME's in previous FM's, at least not the ones I played anyway.

Also have a good feeling that 95% of the goals i see from my team and the AI are all from inside the area. If not its a free-kick from the edge of the area. No Steven Gerrard "Kop screamers" on here.

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@Goob1183:

In answer to a couple of early questions: woodwork hits are slightly higher than real life stats (0.8 per game rather than 0.7), though obviously this should barely be noticeable.

Over bigger data samples, the woodwork numbers aren't far off.

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I thought I would make a point of this, cos woodwork incidents are beyond boring now. I decided to gather some data from 25 competitive matches in the Northern Irish 3rd tier and various cups against all kinds of teams in that country.

My findings:

- Human team: 18 woods in 25 = 0.72 per match

- AI teams: 10 woods in 25 = 0.4 per match

- Overall: 28 woods in 25 matches = 1.12 per match!!! Incredible!

- 2 matches with 4 woods

- 1 match with 3 woods

- 3 matches with 2 woods

- 8 matches with 1 wood

- 9 matches with 0 woods

I really doubt that these stats are true to life. I'd even bet money if i was a gambler.

All we keep hearing is that "it wont be fixed" or "no more patches" etc. Well why? Just make the shots go over or wide? It doesnt make it totally unplayable but it is so annoying! The problem is that is doesnt give an accurate representation(compared to real life) of how effective the chances are that you're creating, how accurate the shooting is etc. It just feels like another tactic to keep the scores down like super-keepers or CCC's/one-on-ones being shot straight at the keeper. This was never a problem on finished ME's in previous FM's, at least not the ones I played anyway.

I've got to say, I don't find a touch over 1 a match on average to be anywhere near high. In fact, I wouldn't say anything seems out of the ordinary in the stats you've provided. 36% of the time, there were no woodwork hits at all. 73% of the time, there was one at most. What exactly is wrong with that? High woodwork hits are rare, and you've proved that.

Also have a good feeling that 95% of the goals i see from my team and the AI are all from inside the area. If not its a free-kick from the edge of the area. No Steven Gerrard "Kop screamers" on here.

If you presented it with the sort of stats you've given for the woodwork, it'd be a lot more useful. Not saying yours is, but the things that start with "I have a feeling that..." often end with the opposite.

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Also have a good feeling that 95% of the goals i see from my team and the AI are all from inside the area. If not its a free-kick from the edge of the area. No Steven Gerrard "Kop screamers" on here.

I lost a game yesterday to a 30-yard screamer. In the 88th minute too :(

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I say this because I felt that woods in Fm12 were as close to spot-on as possible in my experience. I dont feel that here, it feels way too high.

Can you tell me where I can find these stats that this is all being programmed from?

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