Jump to content
Sports Interactive Community
Neil Brock

Football Manager 2014 - Update 14.3.1 Update FEEDBACK THREAD

Recommended Posts

There was a massive issue with 'keepers handling outside their box only a couple of updates ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There was a massive issue with 'keepers handling outside their box only a couple of updates ago.

Yes, but that was buggy rather than intended. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the idea of an FM that is frequently updated. However, a subscription model works best for games when they are adding new content and are already happy with what exists. SI is constantly trying to modify what already exists, so the model they have now is not a bad one. Right now, a subscription model would make frequently unhappy customers as, just as they are getting used to one thing, SI patches it. The new patch means that some problems are solved, but other problems become more noticeable than before, so customers get annoyed all over again. I believe that SI will make a great game again sometime, but unlike Sydney, I do not feel the need to pay until I'm convinced that this great game has arrived. I really like FM 12, bought FM 13 but didn't play it, didn't buy FM 14, and will probably get 15. FM 13 had major flaws and a lack of variety, 14 has minor flaws, and I'm hoping 15 will be the FM 13 that everyone thought they were getting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Apologies in advance for the mega quote, but...

These are my reasons why FM2014 deserves another patch. I think the game needs further improving - I honestly couldn't care less about FM2015 when my current game has so many very easy to see flaws. I know this sounds harsh, but imagine someone selling a different game, say a popular rpg - and they won't patch it anymore because their next game around the corner - even though this current game was just released a few months back? Wouldn't you feel disappointed or upset? I know I do, and I am someone who buys FM every year, regardless if I play it - just to support SI and the genre. Tough love is the only way forward sometimes. :D

Here is a list of my gripes with the game after 20-30 hours of play.

Match Engine

- (animation - major) Players sliding around as if they are on ice - this actually annoys the hell out of me.

- (match engine - minor) Crosses hitting the post or bar from improbable angles. This happens just far too often and needs to be addressed.

- (match engine - minor) Players through on goal, shoot from long range instead of running in and attempting to score. Doesn't always happen, but often enough to be an annoying minor issue.

- (match engine - minor) Players sometimes dwell on the ball, instead of trying to beat their man. Sometimes a player through on goal will somehow waste an eternity and be pegged back by defenders.

- (animation - match engine - major) Some players seem to run into the ball and not try to control it (mix of bad first touch and lack of animations). I am not sure if this is the "first touch" bug, but to me it seems even the best players control the ball as if their arms were tied behind their backs or they had a stiff back. :D

- (animation - very minor) Ref not keeping up with play when handing out a yellow or red card. We literally have to watch the ref slowing walk to the player and book him. Why can't the ref be closer to the foul or jog/run to the player and hand out the card? This has been a problem even on FM2005! LOL :D

- (General Match Engine Feel) Players seem to be "skill-less" at times with the current match engine. This is hard to pinpoint, but it seems even top class players are clueless at times. I don't feel or see that sense of class that players should have. Even top class players in FM seem like they are sliding about, struggling to control the ball. I think if the "ice skating" and the first touch is fixed further - the players won't seem to be struggling to control the ball. It sometimes reminds me of a person trying to fetch an apple out of a barrel with their mouth... :D

- (Graphics - Minor) with the "close" view, you can really see some very poor textures for the stadiums in game. They are very pixelated and blocky and at times deters from the game.

- (Sounds - Major) - very generic sound in this game and has not improved at all in years. In fact the sound in FM is worse now than it was over a decade ago. Something needs to be done here eventually?

- (Realism - New view). Why don't we have a dugout view, where you actually view a match from the managers eyes? This view while not perfect to watch a game of football - is more realistic. This view was in a game called LMA manager and I enjoyed that "feel" of being on the sideline.

Game General

- (Major Issue) Team talks can destroy an otherwise happy dressing room too easily. I told my team that they played well, but need to be better against higher quality teams. This led to many players asking for a transfer request due to being so upset!

- (Minor Issue) When you tell a captain or vice captain to talk to a team mate to resolve an issue, it seems the issue suddenly becomes resolved yet no party comes to you with the outcome. The player is suddenly "happy" again.

- (Minor Issue) Too many high scoring games when viewing AI games. This seems to be an issue no matter what detail level is used. I have seen lots of 5-3 games, 3-3, 5-4, 2-2 etc etc. These are all on a new save.

- (Major Issue - Literally game breaking for me) Not enough transfer activity. It is virtually impossible to sell players, even for free and even loaning players seems difficult. The salary of the player also does not seem to affect this. Even players on low wages are hard to sell or loan off. This issue is really killing my enjoyment of the game and SI need to rethink the balance between realism and playability. I feel this wasn't a problem in FM2012 or 2013. I actually enjoyed selling players in these versions and being able to rebuild a squad.

- (AI Squad Building - Major) - I noticed very early in my 20-30 hours of gaming that big clubs seem to buy some really weak players. I can understand the AI is probably buying on terms of PA or CA, but shouldn't they also look at players attributes? I find it odd when a player with all 10-12 in their stats are starting in games, and playing poorly.

Tactics

(Opinion) The new tactics system takes the control away from the manager. There are many tactical decisions now removed from the manager, because they interfere or clash. This "dumbing down" makes successful tactics easier to create because managers are making less tactical errors. A tutorial literally blocks certain tactical instructions from being used for your team and players. Not only does it feel dumbed down, but it also feels difficult to truly understand how your team plays because many instructions are pre-selected purely based on roles. It totally makes it feel as though the tactics are purely passive in some respect.

These are just my major gripes so far with the game, and unfortunately I don't feel happy with the current product. I feel SI should at least release a patch to allow more transfer activity as right now I am literally stuck, even with a rich club due to a salary cap (not able to sell even 1 player all season managing Wolves.)

But, being honest, how many of these are things you could easily tweak in a 14.3.1, and how many are things you would add to the "eleventy-thousand new changes" for FM15? And how many of them are absolutely major enough to warrant a hotfix? Animations are never going to be touched in an interim release - but they will be looked at in detail for each major new release. The "skill-less" element I kind of agree with, but again there is no chance that would be tackled in a hot-fix. In fact, I'm struggling to see any of them that would prompt one. That's not to say they're not issues, as most of them are things that SI will probably look at before FM15.

I totally understand that the development cycle of FM2014 is now over - and FM2015 is on it's way in 8-9 months time, but the issue here is that the same issues will crop up - people will wait for the January Window etc. to start a new game and more than likely more issues will creep up.

SI need to rethink the whole method of releasing Football Manager and begin thinking of updating the game on the fly - similar to Minecraft or an online multiplayer game. Smaller patches, more often that target specific issues. I think for once in this games life, SI need to stall a release and as stated fix the current product "on the fly" as games like Minecraft do, then by all means - begin working on the next FM.

I would be more than happy to buy Football Manager and then pay for "seasons" or pay a yearly "subscription" to the game that is constantly evolving - rather than being completely rehashed with a new skin every year. I think this method will actually help solve issues on the fly one by one. However I know it probably won't happen. I know for one that I purchased Minecraft and Guild Wars over a year ago and those games continually evolve. Maybe SI can do something similar and for me it would be great knowing I don't have to wait until FM2015 to see if these issues are fixed as I know the game will keep evolving on the fly - with smaller more frequent patches. As it stands now, I will probably put FM2014 down and never play it again - which is quite sad. I am sure many love the game, but many also feel like I do. I want to be able to keep playing, knowing that issues I have reported will be fixed now, not in 12 months time.

I know SI do have the fanbase to create a new type of business model, as FM is always one of the top 5 games played on STEAM.

Why, from a purely business sense, do SI need to rethink the way they do things? They're consistently a top-seller across the entire platform, not just their genre. The "skip a release" idea is mentioned a lot, but that makes absolutely no business sense whatsoever. It might to the average consumer who thinks the game is terrible, but that's about it. Plus, even if they did, FM16 - or whatever was next - would STILL have bugs, because all software does. And I get the feeling that in that event, SI would just get the "You've skipped a release and still have bugs? OMG SI YOU SUX!"!". I'm not convinced smaller updates would make much difference either. Smaller updates more often means that the time for actual development gets shorter and shorter, because you'll be spending more than half the time testing. It also makes it harder to pigeon-hole bugs into certain updates. And you're still going to get people moaning, so why would SI change just to see pretty much the same results?

this is totally spot on:thup: if a product isn't doing what it should be it needs to be addressed, not tell the paying customer it will be in the next release of the said product, (FM15) I understand why SI release a new version each year but I would rather it was a 2/3 time frame for release of a new version and it was working correctly, as SI are the market leader but have let themselves down badly this year

But it is doing what it's supposed to be doing. It has bugs, like any piece of software, but it's hardly unfit for purpose. Do you think SI let themselves down every year? Because there hasn't been a marked increase (or decrease) in problems between versions for years. Since it's software.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know what, i've only just read the last couple of pages of this thread, been playing the update since it came out last week, and honestly, you should avoid this thread, and forum completely, the game is far more enjoyable when you dont come on here and read the moaning. Top patch, has improved my enjoyment of the game hugely!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You know what, i've only just read the last couple of pages of this thread, been playing the update since it came out last week, and honestly, you should avoid this thread, and forum completely, the game is far more enjoyable when you dont come on here and read the moaning. Top patch, has improved my enjoyment of the game hugely!

Agree with this. Unlike with the 14.2 patch I am now largely not recognizing most of the critique in here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I totally accept everyone's counter opinion to my ideas posted. However one thing I don't agree with is the sentence "Why, from a purely business sense, do SI need to rethink the way they do things? They're consistently a top-seller across the entire platform, not just their genre."

In my most humble opinion, Football Manager HAS NOT advanced in my mind, how I had envisioned the game would be today, back in say 2005 when I was one of the beta testers. In those days, I was in awe of the match engine and thought "wow, in 10 years this game is going to blow my mind". However 10 years later, the game at face value, seems to have not had those great leaps forward.

To be honest a lot of bugs in 2014, were around in 2005, which makes me slightly worried and could cause problems down the road. One day a company will come along and do things differently and quite possibly be a better game and bump FM off the podium. SI have failed in the past with FM Live and their hockey games, so they really can't take things for granted. This industry can be brutal and fans can be fickle. Right now there really aren't any genuine contenders to compete with FM, but one day there might be and poor releases or even a lack of advancing technology, ie "next gen" graphics etc will be the games downfall. Sadly everyone's used to how things are being done, and "good enough" is basically how the last few releases have been.

I am not moaning or complaining, but just stating that these bugs or glitches are enough to not make me want to spend more time on the game and quite possibly will deter me from playing a long term save. I just roll my eyes when I hear "we are now focusing on FMXX", when people ask for more patches, even if I understand the reasons behind it. I guess I am a harsh critic and probably a perfectionist like some others who have posted here, but I am just worried about the genre and FM. I am sure SI are also unhappy about their release and maybe they can take a step back and try to rethink how a lot of things are done. Maybe less "good enough" and more of trying to actually do more than expected for a change. I am sure SI can blow our minds with a next release, but the current business plan obviously is making the genre stagnate and the next release will just be more of the same. Good for sales, good for profits - but the product once again falls short ever so slightly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Play FM2005 then play Fm2015, if you cannot see the advancement then im not really sure what to say to you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You miss my point mate. I did not say the game has not advanced at all, it just could have been a lot better. However I know for a fact some parts of the game have not been touched in over a decade. :)

Anyway, lets not argue or whatnot. I just had some opinions and ideas - not everyone will be happy with them which is why I accept all opinions and ideas.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I get your point, but to counter, when they made Back to the Future, they assumed we would be going around in flying cars by now, technology and software does not always follow a linear path of improvement, at times they hit brick walls when it comes to moving things forward.

Anyway, i wont derail, back to restoring Leeds to where they want to be :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I totally accept everyone's counter opinion to my ideas posted. However one thing I don't agree with is the sentence "Why, from a purely business sense, do SI need to rethink the way they do things? They're consistently a top-seller across the entire platform, not just their genre."

In my most humble opinion, Football Manager HAS NOT advanced in my mind, how I had envisioned the game would be today, back in say 2005 when I was one of the beta testers. In those days, I was in awe of the match engine and thought "wow, in 10 years this game is going to blow my mind". However 10 years later, the game at face value, seems to have not had those great leaps forward.

To be honest a lot of bugs in 2014, were around in 2005, which makes me slightly worried and could cause problems down the road. One day a company will come along and do things differently and quite possibly be a better game and bump FM off the podium. SI have failed in the past with FM Live and their hockey games, so they really can't take things for granted. This industry can be brutal and fans can be fickle. Right now there really aren't any genuine contenders to compete with FM, but one day there might be and poor releases or even a lack of advancing technology, ie "next gen" graphics etc will be the games downfall. Sadly everyone's used to how things are being done, and "good enough" is basically how the last few releases have been.

I am not moaning or complaining, but just stating that these bugs or glitches are enough to not make me want to spend more time on the game and quite possibly will deter me from playing a long term save. I just roll my eyes when I hear "we are now focusing on FMXX", when people ask for more patches, even if I understand the reasons behind it. I guess I am a harsh critic and probably a perfectionist like some others who have posted here, but I am just worried about the genre and FM. I am sure SI are also unhappy about their release and maybe they can take a step back and try to rethink how a lot of things are done. Maybe less "good enough" and more of trying to actually do more than expected for a change. I am sure SI can blow our minds with a next release, but the current business plan obviously is making the genre stagnate and the next release will just be more of the same. Good for sales, good for profits - but the product once again falls short ever so slightly.

You miss my point mate. I did not say the game has not advanced at all, it just could have been a lot better. However I know for a fact some parts of the game have not been touched in over a decade. :)

Anyway, lets not argue or whatnot. I just had some opinions and ideas - not everyone will be happy with them which is why I accept all opinions and ideas.

Before I start, completely agree with not arguing, as it's not what I'm trying to do. It's all about opinions, and for the most part you're putting yours across infinitely better than some. Anyway....

But could it? The way you're talking, it's like you expect the same amount of technological shift in each year, and I don't believe it's going to work that way. In fact, I think you'll see the rate of change flattening out each year, as the ME gets bigger and more complex. That means more to go wrong, so changes have to be smaller each time to make sure things don't go to pot.

On the subject of competition, again I don't agree. FM is pretty much 20 years in the making. Some features have been scrapped and rewritten, but the meat of the game can be considered as being an evolving module since the first game. Without getting their hands on SI's code, either legally or illegally, I just can't see any way that a company can come in and compete at this stage. It's not like they can approach it from another angle and simplify things - it's football. It's a finite set of rules that need to be modelled, and these do not change. It would be an absolutely enormous undertaking to even begin to compete. Sure they could come out and do everything else impeccably, and admit that the ME is just a dice. Some might like that, but without that ME, it's a losing battle. That's not even thinking about the database, which would be a massive logistical problem to get over. Not the toughest one I admit, especially if it's a giant company behind it.

Saying SI "take things for granted" is very unfair too. If that were true, there would be zero updates, and each game would just have a bit of a polish, and an updated database. Are they really unhappy at this release? I doubt it to any great degree - no more than any other release they've made.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Before I start, completely agree with not arguing, as it's not what I'm trying to do. It's all about opinions, and for the most part you're putting yours across infinitely better than some. Anyway....

But could it? The way you're talking, it's like you expect the same amount of technological shift in each year, and I don't believe it's going to work that way. In fact, I think you'll see the rate of change flattening out each year, as the ME gets bigger and more complex. That means more to go wrong, so changes have to be smaller each time to make sure things don't go to pot.

On the subject of competition, again I don't agree. FM is pretty much 20 years in the making. Some features have been scrapped and rewritten, but the meat of the game can be considered as being an evolving module since the first game. Without getting their hands on SI's code, either legally or illegally, I just can't see any way that a company can come in and compete at this stage. It's not like they can approach it from another angle and simplify things - it's football. It's a finite set of rules that need to be modelled, and these do not change. It would be an absolutely enormous undertaking to even begin to compete. Sure they could come out and do everything else impeccably, and admit that the ME is just a dice. Some might like that, but without that ME, it's a losing battle. That's not even thinking about the database, which would be a massive logistical problem to get over. Not the toughest one I admit, especially if it's a giant company behind it.

Saying SI "take things for granted" is very unfair too. If that were true, there would be zero updates, and each game would just have a bit of a polish, and an updated database. Are they really unhappy at this release? I doubt it to any great degree - no more than any other release they've made.

Personally I agree with what Sydney666..

To me, it's because FM is 20 years in the making, that I can say SI takes things for granted.

I'm not a year in year out player of the FM series, but I have played a fair few of them, as far back as CM3. So I'm less in the camp of, this is good for FM standards, and more in the camp of, what's good for current gaming standards as a whole. FM isn't pretty, it's full of bugs, hasn't made great leaps forward, some problems that existed years ago, still exist, the database is out of date etc.

Sure, I'm a harsher critic than most, but that's only because I've had so many great times with the series in the past, that I want each iteration I play to also succeed. To me, for FM to be as old as it is, and in my opinion have FM14 be not up to par for the entire length of it's release even through patches is a disappointment. For me, this is taking things for granted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This is just crazy buying! 2nd and 3rd season at PSG...

ParisSaint-Germain_TransfersTransferHistory-2_zpsb467eff8.png

ParisSaint-Germain_TransfersTransferHistory_zpsd45b1593.png

That is some crazy spending. I've seen this before in game, but not until waaaaay in the future when Barca and Real have disappeared off into their Spanish-bank-funded insanity. You could say that in the second season, they're at least offsetting some of their purchases with sales, but I wouldn't be surprised if FFP comes back to bite them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's the purchases of average players or players they don't need which is annoying...plus they bid all the time for my quality players...not a thought into squad building...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

one thing ive noticed that annoys me is how many times the keeper will throw or kick it out to the closest attacker an they shoot first time an score, happens ALOT

it even got goal of the season, fair enough this one was 37 yards ( my rb coleman come second with a volley from 30 yards in off the post should of won ) but normally it happens jus outside the box

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wish that crazy spending would happen for my current club. I can't sell or send people on loan due to no offers. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really struggled with this version until this update. Various tactics had my team playing well but I was plagued by bugs which meant I could never really challenge as I would lose "silly" goals constantly and end up with high scoring games. Since the latest patch the ME is much improved and the goals I'm losing are down to bad play or tactics and not bugs. Great job to all those involved, you've saved FM14 for me!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have played about 5-6 matches in the current patch 14.3.0. Here are my observations:

- Match engine is much improved, players actually take their time to plan their attacks

- Slightly too many disallowed goals via offside (5 goals disallowed in 6 matches)

- A fair number of crosses hitting the post

- Players are generally able to defend better (i.e. taking more initiative in tackling, intercepting passes)

- Good variety of goals seen so far (e.g. long shots, headers, fluke goals)

Overall, a much better experience compared to the earlier patches.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dislike the closing down/pressing. Playing a pressing game which is as intense as Bielsa's/Guardiola's/Sampaoli's currently seems impossible on this FM. I've had patience to see if my team will ever grasp it but they never do. I had much more luck on FM13, but I mean it still wasn't ideal.

Pressing on this game is just very mild. Closing down a player is essentially jogging up to them. And it's not just the individual closing down which is useless, there's no "squeezing the play". Players behind the player closing down(/jogging up to) the opponent don't squeeze up behind him to block off passing options. It's just dire, & frustrating for someone who gets a buzz out of seeing a team which plays a really enthusiastic, pressing game. You just facepalm everytime you lose possession & see the lacklustre closing down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After 2 days of giving it a try, i really. really can't find a reason to continue to play with this ME. Too many flaws, too many randomness.

Is there anyone there who managed to play like Barcelona/Bayern ? I've never seen a team having CONSTANTLY more than 51% possession. I've seen Bayern being dominated by Steaua Bucharest in CL, i've seen Barcelona being overplayed by Malaga or Ajax.

1). As the guy above me said, closing down is extremely dumb.

2). Extremely, and i meant EXTRAORDINARY EXTREMELY poor decisions in front of the goal.

3). Low reactions from the defenders. It's always the attacking players who reacts first to a fluke.

4). High / Low Tempo doesn't work. I have set my tactics to RETAIN POSESSION, WORK BALL INTO BOX, LOOK FOR OVERLAP, SHORTER PASSING, with Rigid / Control, Very Low TEMPO and guess what? They all pass like rabid dogs. In some games i have 58-60% posession, in the very next game i'm under 45% against a full world class team like Fulham or Sunderland.

5). I hope SI staff will have a good summer vacation, and listen to what i said above, so they can fix it for FM17, because until then i won't bother buying another damned FM.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you planing to release a transfer bug fix or no?

It really annoys me, as I'm coming to more and more players that I can't buy because of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Are you planing to release a transfer bug fix or no?

It really annoys me, as I'm coming to more and more players that I can't buy because of it.

Me too. Looks like it is the agent blocking the transfer, for unknown reasons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quality of crossing is woeful...

Top internationals with all the time in the world putting crosses behind and over the bar....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Are you planing to release a transfer bug fix or no?

It really annoys me, as I'm coming to more and more players that I can't buy because of it.

As it stands there are no (known) plans for a further release

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Many improvements over previous patch, however the finishing is infuriating to say the least. I imagine SI is trying to create an intense experience during the matches to where there are more than 2 highlights, but keep the scores under control, to where we don't see a lot of 5-5, 7-4 results.

The fact that your striker will most times try to remove the opposition goal keeper's head, with a powerful long strike, regardless of his "finishing", "composure" and other vital attributes, is frustrating me to where as much as i love this game, i can't play it anymore.

The supper keepers are back with a vengeance... I hope there will be a fix to this issue soon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
super keepers are a myth

Well, i am living a dream then. Lucky me.

I know team building and tactics play a big factor in the strikers efficiency, however the amount of missed chances is just ridiculous from my point of view.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Are you planing to release a transfer bug fix or no?

It really annoys me, as I'm coming to more and more players that I can't buy because of it.

How often would you say it happens?

I'm currently way down in the lower leagues but want to start a save a bit closer to the top divisions where the transfer market if crucial and want to know how much of a hinderance the issue is, as it is unlikely to be fixed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well, i am living a dream then. Lucky me.

I know team building and tactics play a big factor in the strikers efficiency, however the amount of missed chances is just ridiculous from my point of view.

Problem is, if all you can back this up by is "gut feeling" rather than fact and data, it won't do you any good and will rightfully be ignored by the authorities. Some of the stats in the match engine have always been off (tackling success ratios), others just slightly, and there's also a lot of misconceptions going around. Such as how many direct free kicks are actually converted in real football (no matter what FIFA Soccer tells you or how TV stations celebrate Ronaldo's run-ups to his kicks in dramatic close-ups: very very few). But how many clear cut one on ones are converted too (about less than 40% on average, with only a selected few strikers hovering around the 50% mark or even topping that).

So part of the problem is that FM is always going to be a flawed attempt at mimicing a real football match by very definition: It's not the real thing and won't ever be, and even if it were the real thing, despite even top level punditry clinging onto disproven myths ("You have to win Zweikampf", you have to keep possession, you have to this and that) there is no consensus as to what really makes it "tick" or a team eventually win (other than scoring goals, naturally), and scientific research has only come very recently into it all. That is part of its attraction, actually and is fueled by its extremely low scoring nature being completely at odds with almost any other team sports out there. But another part is also that SI cannot go by people's gut feelings, but rely on facts and real-world data themselves instead. Some of those makes for frustrating experiences rather than fun ones. And football can be a very frustrating game comparably often: http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/716938/Live, looking at matches overall, the correlation between a team winning and getting more shots going than its opponent is no more than about 70%, something that just wouldn't happen in Handball or Basketball. But the target is real football, not Pro Evolution Soccer.

However, it all goes both ways, that is you as well as the AI team. Just as you can easily find match stats being at complete odds with the result by looking at teams who always attack (Dortmund:http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/723796/Live) or dominate their league (PSG, see above), you will find the opposite of those with teams that are outplayed or sit back and hope for the best if you look at the stats of matches that still the sides in question turned out winners or managed to get a draw. Such as Dortmund's/PSG's opponents in the linked to matches, if you will.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One day we will play a great football manager simulation. One day, but not today.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Many improvements over previous patch, however the finishing is infuriating to say the least. I imagine SI is trying to create an intense experience during the matches to where there are more than 2 highlights, but keep the scores under control, to where we don't see a lot of 5-5, 7-4 results.

The fact that your striker will most times try to remove the opposition goal keeper's head, with a powerful long strike, regardless of his "finishing", "composure" and other vital attributes, is frustrating me to where as much as i love this game, i can't play it anymore.

The supper keepers are back with a vengeance... I hope there will be a fix to this issue soon.

So, too many goals are being scored, and there are super keepers? Does that not sound a little contradictory to you?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Problem is, if all you can back this up by is "gut feeling" rather than fact and data, it won't do you any good and will rightfully be ignored by the authorities. Some of the stats in the match engine have always been off (tackling success ratios), others just slightly, and there's also a lot of misconceptions going around. Such as how many direct free kicks are actually converted in real football (no matter what FIFA Soccer tells you or how TV stations celebrate Ronaldo's run-ups to his kicks in dramatic close-ups: very very few). But how many clear cut one on ones are converted too (about less than 40% on average, with only a selected few strikers hovering around the 50% mark or even topping that).

So part of the problem is that FM is always going to be a flawed attempt at mimicing a real football match by very definition: It's not the real thing and won't ever be, and even if it were the real thing, despite even top level punditry clinging onto disproven myths ("You have to win Zweikampf", you have to keep possession, you have to this and that) there is no consensus as to what really makes it "tick" or a team eventually win (other than scoring goals, naturally), and scientific research has only come very recently into it all. That is part of its attraction, actually and is fueled by its extremely low scoring nature being completely at odds with almost any other team sports out there. But another part is also that SI cannot go by people's gut feelings, but rely on facts and real-world data themselves instead. Some of those makes for frustrating experiences rather than fun ones. And football can be a very frustrating game comparably often: http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/716938/Live, looking at matches overall, the correlation between a team winning and getting more shots going than its opponent is no more than about 70%, something that just wouldn't happen in Handball or Basketball. But the target is real football, not Pro Evolution Soccer.

However, it all goes both ways, that is you as well as the AI team. Just as you can easily find match stats being at complete odds with the result by looking at teams who always attack (Dortmund:http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/723796/Live) or dominate their league (PSG, see above), you will find the opposite of those with teams that are outplayed or sit back and hope for the best if you look at the stats of matches that still the sides in question turned out winners or managed to get a draw. Such as Dortmund's/PSG's opponents in the linked to matches, if you will.

Great post!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How often would you say it happens?

I'm currently way down in the lower leagues but want to start a save a bit closer to the top divisions where the transfer market if crucial and want to know how much of a hinderance the issue is, as it is unlikely to be fixed.

In my first season and a half, I bought about 10 players. In searching for these players, I came to about 5 of that transfer bugs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm loving the game. It's absolutely fantastic and as realistic as it gets. My goalkeeper gets a yellow for walking with the ball outside the box, then whilst he is returning to his goal, the opposing team takes the free kick and scores.

NuGjWD7.gif

Here are some of my last seasons' games which I either drew or lost. Stats in 5 out of 6 games I've lost are tremendous.

http://i.imgur.com/3PxCCBn.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/uETwetu.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/FiQ4k2o.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/XzhlrPf.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/wpgzqjZ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/uVNFGxz.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/zxuvkdM.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/S3wsm9B.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/MmY3jPU.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/NJlKbSf.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/mks2T4N.jpg

This years' finest:

zD2viMU.jpg

JMcwVjc.jpg

Lgsy1JD.jpg

vLysd3t.jpg

jVm3B1T.jpg

Note that these are four out of six league matches I've played so far. My focus is attacking movement. My team's MP is 3rd place. And yet this happens two years in a row.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, that's the point here.

Because it's a joint LLM challenge on another forum. LLM rules clearly state no downloaded tactics or player naming is allowed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This too:

screenshot020.jpg

Look at CCC :applause:

Except most sensible people accept that the CCC numbers are pretty pointless when looking at them in isolation. But aye, feel free to continue your sarcastic applause.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here are some of my last seasons' games which I either drew or lost. Stats in 5 out of 6 games I've lost are tremendous.

[snip]

Unless I'm missing something, in all of those there's two, at best three that are fairly remarkable as far as I'm concerned. In those posted as screenshots, there are actually none to me. You could take a look at the real-world statistics of any good side, similarily be so selective as to pick the matches it has merely drawn or lost, and come up with similar. Such as Ajax, in this case.

http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/719729/Live

http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/719547/Live

http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/719578/Live

http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/776586/Live

Or let's go through City's failings of the current season.

http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/719914/Live

http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/719991/Live

http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/720149/Live

http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/720717/Live

http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/720735/Live

http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/790670/Live

http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/808996/Live

Even if you dominated each and every match statistically, that wouldn't guarantee you a thing. If you did, going by real life statistics, there would still be a good numbers of games you would come out not winning. Whilst some of your matches are a bit out there, overall that's just football. Additionally this can be naturally be skewed by user tactics too, most notably risky specific marking jobs, lack of holding players or lack of movement (not arguing this to be the case here, mind!).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

zD2viMU.jpg

JMcwVjc.jpg

Lgsy1JD.jpg

vLysd3t.jpg

jVm3B1T.jpg

Note that these are four out of six league matches I've played so far. My focus is attacking movement. My team's MP is 3rd place. And yet this happens two years in a row.

Your shot/shot at goal ratio is roughly 3/1 in these matches. That is poor, and explains why you were losing points. If you played well and created truly big chances, your ratio should be around 2/1 or better. Your screenshots only shows that you failed to create big enough chances to win those matches, and that's either a team building problem, tactical problem, a motivational problem - or a combination of those three. Tactics, team building and man management are the three main aspects of this game, and you're failing at at least one of them.

Just posting screenshots in here of statistics alone won't do much good. Instead, focus on what the AI does in an attempt to rule out personal errors. If the same issues happen to the AI, then you have a case. If not, it is something you do. Next match, try to focus on whether the AI has the same problems as you do and post a .pkm of the match with a list of incidents happening to the AI, and times, showing what you mean are ME shortcomings.

Edit: this is not to say that the Tactics of 14.3 are not still too "narrow" in terms of which combinations are acceptable. I know they were in 14.2.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Except most sensible people accept that the CCC numbers are pretty pointless when looking at them in isolation. But aye, feel free to continue your sarcastic applause.

You always talk on this forum about how important are CCC in this game when somebody have 30 shots on game but have small number of CCC. You always say that number of CCC was little. Now talking is different.

This game was for winning league versus team who has alredy out in 2nd division.

And this is not a first time that this hapend.

I wasn't looking CCC never until this series beacouse I never had a problem with scoring this much. And when I first time asked everybody start talking about CCC. So I was started looking at that.

Sorry about bad English, it is not my first language.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You always talk on this forum about how important are CCC in this game when somebody have 30 shots on game but have small number of CCC. You always say that number of CCC was little. Now talking is different.

This game was for winning league versus team who has alredy out in 2nd division.

And this is not a first time that this hapend.

I wasn't looking CCC never until this series beacouse I never had a problem with scoring this much. And when I first time asked everybody start talking about CCC. So I was started looking at that.

Sorry about bad English, it is not my first language.

"You" being me, or just generally? Because I've said nothing of the sort. CCC SHOULD be a good measure, but they're not at the moment, as if you actually look at the chances, rather than just looking at the number of getting the flaming torches, then you'd see that a lot of them aren't actually clear cut chances.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You always talk on this forum about how important are CCC in this game when somebody have 30 shots on game but have small number of CCC. You always say that number of CCC was little. Now talking is different.

This game was for winning league versus team who has alredy out in 2nd division.

And this is not a first time that this hapend.

I wasn't looking CCC never until this series beacouse I never had a problem with scoring this much. And when I first time asked everybody start talking about CCC. So I was started looking at that.

Sorry about bad English, it is not my first language.

To a sensible extent. When all things work well, a CCC is by Opta definition "A situation where a player should reasonably be expected to score usually in a one-on-one scenario or from very close range." Even by Opta standards, it is thus by no means a guaranteed "sitter". This is about classifying chances: A CCC is meant to be one that has a higher chance of being converted than a normal shot. However you don't need any CCC to score a goal. It's just an attempt at classifying chances. There is an important catch in FM: The algorithm or rather the in-game definition of a CCC and the conditions needed to be met makes it so that this doesn't apply all the time. For whatever reason many CCCs are nowhere near Opta stat's definition. Match play like this gets flagged as CCC too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmj6thag7qI&list=UU7GXmzjFp1RPI4kRILODvFQ You will see it in the analysis tab, when you click on situations flagged as clear cut chances and click on the little dots to watch the actual play. If you think this to be bad, I fully agree.

As an attempt at classifying attempts, it remains a subjective stat in real football too though. Plus clear cut chances aren't all the same themselves.

[...]The data is very subjective as their a lot of variables involved when measuring a clear cut chance and Opta do not distinguish one clear cut chance from another. For example, both a penalty and a one on one with a goalkeeper are recorded as clear cut chances and the distance away from goal is not taken into consideration.

Being a subjective statistic it is hard to get many valid conclusions from the data provided as the definition of a clear cut chance is up for interpretation[...]

With that in mind, let's look at some real-life statistics of the current Premier League season. http://eplindex.com/47486/clear-cut-finishing-analysis-suarez-aguero-giroud-rooney-compared.html It is thus established that a lot of top strikers have a CCC conversion rate of 30% or even less, and due to the failings of FM's CCC stat, the number should realistically actually be lower. And even if all of your 5 CCCs were genuine, unless it's happening time and time again there would be nothing inherently wrong with none of them going in. The chance of conversion doesn't magically go up when you already missed two or three. In the same sense, 25 or more shots full stop have never been a guarantee for scoring even a single goal for any team in the history of the game. Along that line of thinking lies the pits of logics hell. Or Charles Reep, who sometime in the last century found that teams on average would score a goal from X attempts, and thus developed wonderfully bizarre theories on teams being "goals in deficit" for coming games as well as mixing up cause and effect by encouraging teams to get as many shots going as possible then, as for a goal they'd need those X attempts, obviously.

In the end, it's all mere numbers. Stuff, passes and shots that someone adds up, or in FM's case, an algorithm. It can be immensely useful when not abused. But beneath it all lies the actual play – or in particular in a low scoring sports such as football that one penalty missed that has the power to crush and destroy and **** you off, drawing everything all wonderful going before it completely redundant.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does FM Classic use the same match engine as the full version? That is to say, if I have developed a very good tactic on the full version, will it play in a similar fashion in FM Classic?

Also, does FM Classic have a dark skin like in the full game or is it only the default skin? The default skin hurts my eyes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Does FM Classic use the same match engine as the full version? That is to say, if I have developed a very good tactic on the full version, will it play in a similar fashion in FM Classic?

Also, does FM Classic have a dark skin like in the full game or is it only the default skin? The default skin hurts my eyes.

1) Yup, same match engine across both versions, but obviously morale and teamtalks don't count in FMC. You should be able to take a good tactic from the full and play fine in Classic, and the other way around should be possible too, but obviously morale takes an effect then.

2) FMC has its own skin - not as light as the original white one, but it's not really a dark skin. Probably best to have a look yourself to see if you feel it's alright. Personally I think it's one of the best interfaces they've ever produced.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
FMC is :cool: it also has instant results :thup:

RTH got to you too :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...