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Neil Brock

Football Manager 2014 - Update 14.3.1 Update FEEDBACK THREAD

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This is the likely reason.

There is no "difficulty level" in FM (you set your own difficulty based on the team you use, applying attribute masking etc.), so nothing could possibly have been changed to make the game "easier".

Except perhaps player decision-making being improved, so that less "precision" in the use of roles is necessary to make a tactic solid? Fewer people would try to fix problems they see on the pitch by applying lots of extra instructions, which of course make tactics more "specialized" in use.

I performed better this season, mostly played with 14.3, than last season, but then again I have a better team. Player performances are less volatile in my experience.

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No I am aware of that, in the context of my little Oviedo team right now in FM14. I was drawing the lines through the last 3 versions of the game, though, where the transfer system has been the same except now it is less stagnant and AI clubs actually do make offers for your players. However, they do not use the tools of the game correctly in order to get the players they are after. They do not start low and increase the bids until they get a negotiation and then calculate that they are actually quite close to the acceptable offer... and -then- evaluate whether or not that likely price-tag will be worth it or if they could get better players for less elsewhere. A negotiation means that somewhere between the current offer and the first counteroffer lies the sweet spot where none of the parties are entirely happy but both feel they have made a good deal.

The AI does not do it like that. Evidently, they require the first counter-offer to be within an acceptable (literally) range, and that's pure guesswork for us humans. When they are on the receiving end, though, they do it like that themselves.

So my question is: exactly how are we supposed to negotiate with the AI when they bid for our players, in order to get as good deals as the AI vs AI transfers often become? What i s the actual mechanic supposed to be like?

I'm not understand your line of reasoning. If you value your player too high then there is no point in continuing discussions. I do the same the to AI teams. At the end of the day you know what you want for your player. If a bids £10m and you want 35m then chances are a deal won't be made. AI is just smart enough to know when the price is too high.

AI WILL negotiate with you if your valuation isn't that far away from theirs. I've seen an increase in £5-8m in a final sale price by negotiating. Also I've seen AI offer me sums 3X the player value for certain players (usually young players on the cusp of greatness). In my Bordeaux save I can't think of one instance where I didn't make a profit. You just have to be realistic and patient.

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Has anyone else noticed player running extremely fast? I'm not sure if I'm imagining things or not, but the game looks so much faster. I had to turn my match speed down a notch.

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Has anyone else noticed player running extremely fast? I'm not sure if I'm imagining things or not, but the game looks so much faster. I had to turn my match speed down a notch.

I have noticed wingers really turning on the speed and moving past the full backs more often, but can't say I've noticed it go faster across the board. Admittedly I don't pay close enough attention all the time, so could be happening.

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3.9m for a player with one of the highest upsides in the game isn't in the realms of a realistic starting bid.

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Am I the only one seeing almost no development in my players? So far I've managed half a season on 14.3.0, and in my Juventus team neither Paul Pogba nor Youri Tielemans have had increases in their attributes. Almost no green arrows from their training either. I have four stars in my worst category, so it can't be the quality of the coaches being the problem, I guess?

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Like I said, 3.9 for a 10 rated player doesn't seem that bad as a starting bid. It would hardly be "embarrassing", especially since you say it has unsettled the player. I think Juventus would be quite happy to be "embarrassed" in this case if it meant that they eventually got the player for less money than they would have otherwise. Also, if this was just a young regen, would it seem as bad as it does since it's everyone's favourite Kosovan/Belgian/Englishman/American/Martian Adnan Januzaj?

Its a bid that will never, ever be accepted though. Also factor in that he had just signed a 5 year contract, so the player must be happy.

We will have to agree to disagree on this case.

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Its a bid that will never, ever be accepted though. Also factor in that he had just signed a 5 year contract, so the player must be happy.

We will have to agree to disagree on this case.

Fair enough - wasn't trying to be antagonistic in any way, just can see the benefit behind the bid given it's unsettled him.

One thing I think that FM suffers from in transfers is that in real life, transfers are often long-winded affairs where negotiations take place over weeks. That wouldn't really work in the game, but we now do have instant negotiations. It's all a bit awkward at the moment, and I think a lot of people aren't seeing it as much of a negotiation due to the lack of control or feedback into things. Or something like that.

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I'm not understand your line of reasoning. If you value your player too high then there is no point in continuing discussions. I do the same the to AI teams. At the end of the day you know what you want for your player. If a bids £10m and you want 35m then chances are a deal won't be made. AI is just smart enough to know when the price is too high.

AI WILL negotiate with you if your valuation isn't that far away from theirs. I've seen an increase in £5-8m in a final sale price by negotiating. Also I've seen AI offer me sums 3X the player value for certain players (usually young players on the cusp of greatness). In my Bordeaux save I can't think of one instance where I didn't make a profit. You just have to be realistic and patient.

I didn't WANT 35m just like they don't actually want that when I bid 10m and they quote 35m. I can get that down to, say, 25m and everyone's happy. I can do that because I understand what the negotiation game is all about. The AI, like you say, think that I actually want 35m no more no less and then withdraws... and that's simply put idiotic. They play the game well as the seller but not at all as the buyer. This needs to be fixed!

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That's also not true.

The main reason the AI withdraws isn't because they don't understand how to negotiate, they just have other targets and a limited budget. They know when to give up.

They bid £10m, they probably don't have £25m, let alone £35m.

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What squad status do you have him listed at?

First team, because he'd just signed a new contract, and he was playing every game.

Fair enough - wasn't trying to be antagonistic in any way, just can see the benefit behind the bid given it's unsettled him.

No problem.

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Then yeah, they really shouldn't be making that bid Imo.

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Yeah, but bidding £3.9m for Januzaj? That's peanuts considering his value was around the £10m mark, and he's one of the best talents in the game. It should at least be a realistic/believable bid.

In my opinion, it is a ridiculous opening bid, if a club did that in real life it would be embarrassing.

Do you have a save game shortly before Juventus come in with their offer? If you do can you post in this thread & upload a copy for us to take a look at.

Details on where to upload saves can be found here - http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/368795

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I am unable to recall players from loan since the 14.3 update on my Mac. I made sure they had the clauses as well. The only way I could was when one player got injured and I had the option to recall.

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I am unable to recall players from loan since the 14.3 update on my Mac. I made sure they had the clauses as well. The only way I could was when one player got injured and I had the option to recall.

Are you trying to recall the player outside of a transfer window?

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That's also not true.

The main reason the AI withdraws isn't because they don't understand how to negotiate, they just have other targets and a limited budget. They know when to give up.

They bid £10m, they probably don't have £25m, let alone £35m.

Then they shouldn't bid for players under contract valued near their upper limit at all. If you have 10m you want to use on a striker, you don't go searching for non-listed players on long contracts valued near 10m. That's more than idiotic, that's just trolling! For players under contract you will have to expect at least 2x base value unless the club is in financial trouble. If the player is young and promising as well, at least 3x.

So, basically, if they aren't prepared to spend at least 20m for a first team player at a similar-sized, well-financed club and who is under contract and is not unsettled - currently valued around £10m - then they should not even try to bid. A bid around base value will not be accepted in a million years in such circumstances, and if they don't have more money than that to spend they are just being annoying. That's not a serious offer!

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To add to what people have mentioned before, besides the very low offers.. I have also noticed that the general interest in players is much lower than it was in FM 13.. this year (in all my saves) I have had to let way more players go away for free or even by terminating their contract.. just to get rid of them.. in extreme cases I just had to wait untill their contract expired.. and in a lot of cases people don't even want to have your players for free (have had this at Feyenoord, Spurs, Arsenal and Bayern)..

I know that you changed around a lot for this year for the transfer system.. but I think that the best way is more of a balance between how it is now and how it was last year...

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Do you have a save game shortly before Juventus come in with their offer? If you do can you post in this thread & upload a copy for us to take a look at.

Details on where to upload saves can be found here - http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/368795

Sorry I don't, I'm a few years down the line now in that particular save.

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Was it a first season thing? Transfer behaviour is always distorted in the first season because very few teams have any money left at that point.

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Was it a first season thing? Transfer behaviour is always distorted in the first season because very few teams have any money left at that point.

It was at the end of the first season, going into the second season.

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Fair enough. One of the goals of my save was to develop youth specifically to fit a 3-5-2 type of system. So long as I can still do that. :)

I definitely wouldn't be deterred from doing a save around a 3-man defence. I plan on doing one eventually.

The concern would be if the DCs are ball watching from wide areas when possession is lost and too slow to narrow back into a defensive shape. If that's happening, that would not be good and it would be worthwhile to report examples.

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I am still waiting for SI to respond to a post I made to clarify the problem I am having with the FM14 editor. I know you have probably not been in the office over the weekend. It would be appreciated if this could be looked into, I have tried to help you clarify and resolve the problem.

There is at the moment a massive risk of splitting the Editing community if these bugs are not resolved. I'd be prepared to stop supporting new releases and stick to FM12 if need be, and so are other editors.

Someone has responded to your thread.

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Pardon me if I ask a stupid question...

Since the majority, if not all, of the FMs generally have the final patch as the best working patch for each FM, why not develop future FMs based on the good working copy instead of starting from scratch and then having to develop several patches to 'patch up' all the resulting bugs and imperfection?

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Pardon me if I ask a stupid question...

Since the majority, if not all, of the FMs generally have the final patch as the best working patch for each FM, why not develop future FMs based on the good working copy instead of starting from scratch and then having to develop several patches to 'patch up' all the resulting bugs and imperfection?

Because no matter where your line in the sand is drawn, there will always be bugs. The game is always evolving. You could think of this patch as a pre-cursor to FM15 in most cases. The example you use above is incredibly simplistic in reasoning - it would be great if software worked that way, but it never, ever does, and never, ever will.

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Sorry I don't, I'm a few years down the line now in that particular save.

Okay, thanks for letting us know.

If you see a similar scenario in the future it would be appreciated if you make a copy of the most recent save file for us to look at. I would also recommend ensuring that the asking price for your players hasn't been set to a low value that is encouraging AI sides to submit offers.

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Okay, thanks for letting us know.

If you see a similar scenario in the future it would be appreciated if you make a copy of the most recent save file for us to look at. I would also recommend ensuring that the asking price for your players hasn't been set to a low value that is encouraging AI sides to submit offers.

Will do, I shall keep an eye out.

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No. they should at start offer at the player value. why would anyone sell a regular player, who wins champions titles and is international player for Argentina for a bid lower then the current value?? and this applies to any of my players, every damn offer is always below their price. i tried to negotiate that player and said 20M, AI replies with 10M + 500k in 24 months. Is this for real???? a 500k increase when i just doubled the price to 20M? why don't they just ask me to give him for free??? ofc i'm never gonna accept any AI offer.

That already tells me that they don't have the cash up front. You should then counter with 10m up front plus 10m in 24 months and take it from there.

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Pardon me if I ask a stupid question...

Since the majority, if not all, of the FMs generally have the final patch as the best working patch for each FM, why not develop future FMs based on the good working copy instead of starting from scratch and then having to develop several patches to 'patch up' all the resulting bugs and imperfection?

SI don't start an ME "from scratch". Each version just gets improved on. There were large parts re-written between FM12 and FM13, yes, but they still didn't start from scratch.

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Won Serie A 6 times, Champ League twice, Sunday Footballer can't get another job. Been 2 years. . .
I noticed I couldn't get a job at the start of the game as a sunday footballer, not even a nation ranked 160th-ish or a league 2 club. :(

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I noticed I couldn't get a job at the start of the game as a sunday footballer, not even a nation ranked 160th-ish or a league 2 club. :(

League 2 is a bit high if you're only a Sunday League footballer. Try "automatic" or a higher rep, assuming you're trying to start a new game.

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League 2 is a bit high if you're only a Sunday League footballer. Try "automatic" or a higher rep, assuming you're trying to start a new game.
Shame, because the lowest selected league is League 2... Guess I will restart with a higher rep. I wasn't sure if this was an issue or not, as in previous versions I would even get picked by 2nd tier sides in Holland or England.

I think in future, SI could add an option to "get badges" and even run the player through a little multiple choice test to obtain them. It would be cool (for me anyway) to get a badge or two, in "real time" over the course of a couple of seasons and increase my rep that way.

Just an idea. :)

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SI don't start an ME "from scratch". Each version just gets improved on. There were large parts re-written between FM12 and FM13, yes, but they still didn't start from scratch.

To expand on this a little; all of the code behind the ME in particular will be massively interlinked.

If SI wanted to tweak one area, they'd need to consider the impact it has on all the other elements.

As an example, I've seen a couple of comments that strikers don't score enough goals still (I don't actually agree with that).

How would SI go about "fixing" that issue, if it were true?

Perhaps they'd try to get players to shoot earlier / later / harder / softer / higher / lower etc. etc.

If they then did that, what would the impact be on the number of goals scored?

On the ratings of the goal keepers?

On the ratings of the defenders / defensive midfielders who are now contributing to conceding more goals?

On the ratings of the strikers that are now scoring more?

Would defensive behaviour need to be tightened to balance this?

Would shot counts increase, and result in Match Stats that are out of kilter with real life?

Would shot counts drop, and result in conversion rates which are out of kilter with real life?

A sod to balance, I imagine, and not a task which should be underestimated.

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That already tells me that they don't have the cash up front. You should then counter with 10m up front plus 10m in 24 months and take it from there.

Will try that when i get home but if AI doesn't have the money then it should be AI making that kind of counter offer, not the human players.

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Will try that when i get home but if AI doesn't have the money then it should be AI making that kind of offer, not the human players.

It doesn't have it up front.

I had a player valued at 40k and got silly offers of 36k etc. but I kept asking for 500k. The AI kept withdrawing and obviously I understand why. Then I wondered if it wasn't because of a lack of cash up front? Next time the AI negotiated to 60k + 28k in 24 months. I tried my luck: 60k + 440k in 24 months. They accepted!

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It doesn't have it up front.

I had a player valued at 40k and got silly offers of 36k etc. but I kept asking for 500k. The AI kept withdrawing and obviously I understand why. Then I wondered if it wasn't because of a lack of cash up front? Next time the AI negotiated to 60k + 28k in 24 months. I tried my luck: 60k + 440k in 24 months. They accepted!

When setting a value I am setting a value, not doing their job for them. If they can't afford 20 million up front but can if some of the money is paid in installments, why not put such an offer on the table and let me consider it?

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I have a question around fees and instalments, as an example, if I sell a player for £10m (all up front fee), then that fee gets added to my transfer kitty, so, if I sell that same player but for £10m (spread over 48 months), does that money get split out equally over my next 4 budgets (i.e. £2.5m per 12 months)?

Or does it disappear with the club, never to be spent again.

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Because theyre trying to get their players for as cheap as possible.

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I have a question around fees and instalments, as an example, if I sell a player for £10m (all up front fee), then that fee gets added to my transfer kitty, so, if I sell that same player but for £10m (spread over 48 months), does that money get split out equally over my next 4 budgets (i.e. £2.5m per 12 months)?

Or does it disappear with the club, never to be spent again.

Only the amount being paid during the current season will be deducted from your budget.

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Only the amount being paid during the current season will be deducted from your budget.

Added you mean?

I'm talking about selling a player, not buying.

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ooops, for money in it can work either way, the board will either pro-rata the increase or add the full transfer value to the budget.

This of course assumes that the board already allows 100% of transfer income to be fed back to the budget.

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ooops, for money in it can work either way, the board will either pro-rata the increase or add the full transfer value to the budget.

This of course assumes that the board already allows 100% of transfer income to be fed back to the budget.

Cool, I rarely sell players for instalments, as I prefer all the money up front.

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Cool, I rarely sell players for instalments, as I prefer all the money up front.

That will make getting top price for your player more difficult, football finances have evolved in such a way that very few transfers are 100% cash up front deals, more so at the top end of the market.

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This patch appears to have ruined the game for me. :(

Nonsensical goals from impossible angles, constant giveaways from my team and the AI as well, strange passing choices, fullbacks and marking in general being even worse than before, etc. I thought the previous ME, while not being perfect, was rather good but this new one has been a complete shambles for me so far. I watch full games, so I'm not relying on mere, occasional highlights to make this judgement.

Do I need to start a new save maybe for the new ME to take full effect? I guess this is a pretty dumb notion to entertain... but I'm getting very frustrated with the game right now. :(

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I prefer to get payments for my players in instalments, as I usually have a debt to service and this regular income stream helps, and like Alex says, you can tend to push the total price up by staggering payments.

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This patch appears to have ruined the game for me. :(

Nonsensical goals from impossible angles, constant giveaways from my team and the AI as well, strange passing choices, fullbacks and marking in general being even worse than before, etc. I thought the previous ME, while not being perfect, was rather good but this new one has been a complete shambles for me so far. I watch full games, so I'm not relying on mere, occasional highlights to make this judgement.

Do I need to start a new save maybe for the new ME to take full effect? I guess this is a pretty dumb notion to entertain... but I'm getting very frustrated with the game right now. :(

ME changes kick in straight away, so no new save should be required.

As far as I'm aware, you are the first person in this thread to rate the old ME above the new.

Have you made any tactical tweaks since the update rolled out?

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ME changes kick in straight away, so no new save should be required.

As far as I'm aware, you are the first person in this thread to rate the old ME above the new.

Have you made any tactical tweaks since the update rolled out?

I haven't. Another thing I've noticed is that passes tend to get intercepted very easily now on quite a few occasions. It's as if players had absolutely no idea what's around them. Now this would be fine with players who have low mental stats, especially anticipation, but I've seen it happen to players with quite good mental stats.

Prior to the patch, what would happen was that players knew what was happening around them and actually moved towards the ball.

To give an example:

Say my fullback wants to pass to my wide man. My winger seems free to receive the ball with his marker not marking him tightly. Instead of actually moving towards the ball, the winger stops in his tracks, though, allowing the oppo. fullback to intercept the pass. It's happening to me quite often now. Really weird. On the previous ME, in similar situations my players got the ball first but then would be tackled if they took a poor first touch or had no real options to play the ball. And that was completely fine as far as I'm concerned.

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I have done a search on this thread without success but:

Pre 14.3 update I had a problem with certain players not wanting to take part in contract talks. In my case - playing as Arsenal (No jokes please!) - the 2 players concerned were Paul Pogba and Raphael Varane. In both cases I stated "passionately" " I would love to make him part of the team and we are working towards that end".

Pogba's response was "To play for a team like Arsenal is what all players dream about. I hope this speculation results in a formal bid"

Varane's response was along the lines of "__would consider joining Arsenal at some time (?)"

When I had bids accepted both players refused to enter contract negotiations. Understandable with Varane, but not with Pogba. I had the same response with Pogba in 2 different games, one in which he had an agent and one when he didn't.

In my first game - starting afresh - since the 14.3 update I have gone through the same process and now have 4 additional players saying that they won't enter contract negotiations, despite all stating that "To play for a team like Arsenal is what all players dream about. I hope this speculation results in a formal bid".

The difference is that, without exception, all 4 of these players entered contract negotiations pre 14.3 and I signed them - as I have done in any previous game that I have started in FM14.

I have the In Game Editor so can move the players to my club if necessary, but something has changed. Can anybody shed any light on this please?

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I have done a search on this thread without success but:

Pre 14.3 update I had a problem with certain players not wanting to take part in contract talks. In my case - playing as Arsenal (No jokes please!) - the 2 players concerned were Paul Pogba and Raphael Varane. In both cases I stated "passionately" " I would love to make him part of the team and we are working towards that end".

Pogba's response was "To play for a team like Arsenal is what all players dream about. I hope this speculation results in a formal bid"

Varane's response was along the lines of "__would consider joining Arsenal at some time (?)"

When I had bids accepted both players refused to enter contract negotiations. Understandable with Varane, but not with Pogba. I had the same response with Pogba in 2 different games, one in which he had an agent and one when he didn't.

In my first game - starting afresh - since the 14.3 update I have gone through the same process and now have 4 additional players saying that they won't enter contract negotiations, despite all stating that "To play for a team like Arsenal is what all players dream about. I hope this speculation results in a formal bid".

The difference is that, without exception, all 4 of these players entered contract negotiations pre 14.3 and I signed them - as I have done in any previous game that I have started in FM14.

I have the In Game Editor so can move the players to my club if necessary, but something has changed. Can anybody shed any light on this please?

A couple of people have mentioned this and we are currently looking into the problem.

Cheers,

Ben

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Might just be a freak start to the new save I started post 14.3 update, but there seems to be an awful lot of penalties in fully simmed leagues. There have been eight in the first two weeks of the EPL season I've just begun. All scored of course, as they're hardly ever missed in this version of the game.

In the non-simmed leagues, the figures are much lower. This is just through the first couple of weeks, so may just be a blip.

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