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kallemannen

Train a player to "natural ability" on a position?

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Hey, first of all I dont play this game in English, the direct translation of the players ability at a certain position would be "natural".

Light green, 20/20.

Now, I got a CAM I want to train to be a lightgreen CM, hes know dark green "excellent ability".

But I wonder if Its possible to train a player to 20/20, and how long time will it take?

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Yes it is possible, but the time taken can't be predicted as it depends on the player's hidden attributes and how often you play him in that position.

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Yes you can but time depends on his hidden attributes, so it can vary. More chance of him learning it faster if playing him in that position while training him though.

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It depends from a hidden attribute "adaptability". If it is high maybe a half of a season, if not maybe an year but it is very dependable. If you play him in the new position it will become faster.

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Versitility, rather than adaptability. Adaptability is their ability to learn new languages and acclimatise to new countries and leagues.

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Okay great.

Its wilshere, hes a CAM originally but I have Özil + cazorla there so, he does the CM role, all the time, defensive creator

Has him doing both CM training and speciality, should be done by the season.

Ramesy is training on being a ball winner, even tough he lacks in defence

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Unless it's changed, they can also lose the "natural" rating if they don't play in the position, which I always thought was weird. If they can lose it, how can it be natural?

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Unless it's changed, they can also lose the "natural" rating if they don't play in the position, which I always thought was weird. If they can lose it, how can it be natural?

If they can be trained to it, how is it natural? :D

Guessing it might be better to read it as "like natural" to reconcile being able to get to and drop down from being natural at a position.

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Agreed. I think it should instead read as being "Second Nature" if it's learned to point of 'Natural'. That way it lets you know what is actually natural and what is almost nature to them but is actually trained to such high standards.

I have a natural LB/CB regen who I signed. I train him in CB and play him there primarily, but he's also good enough to play LB (his stats are so good he can play both easily). I've been wondering in the half-season since I signed him whether he's natural at LB, natural at CB, or natural at both (in other words, is one of them trained or has he always been natural in both?). He's either a natural LB and second nature at CB and because I keep him at CB so often he's not losing his 'Natural' ability there. Or else he's always been natural at both. I don't know. I guess it doesn't matter but it is quite annoying, not knowing if he'll start to lose his 'Natural' ability at CB one day (not going to happen whilst I play him there though I don't think).

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Don't agree, when a player is born he's not naturally a certain position. That position becomes natural to them. So they should be able to be trained to it and should stay at natural without further training.

Also, although I like the feature, the training a player to become two-footed is strange. How many players have you seen IRL that have improved their weak foot drastically? There's not many. You're either naturally two-footed, able to use both or one-footed IMO. This shouldn't really change.

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Don't agree, when a player is born he's not naturally a certain position. That position becomes natural to them. So they should be able to be trained to it and should stay at natural without further training.

Also, although I like the feature, the training a player to become two-footed is strange. How many players have you seen IRL that have improved their weak foot drastically? There's not many. You're either naturally two-footed, able to use both or one-footed IMO. This shouldn't really change.

From wikipedia: "His father trained Morten [Gamst Pedersen] to use his left foot rather than his natural right foot in a bid to help him become a professional player, as there is less competition for left-sided roles within the sport. As a result his left foot has become his dominant foot."

Not many but still possible.

-SnUrF

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Don't agree, when a player is born he's not naturally a certain position. That position becomes natural to them. So they should be able to be trained to it and should stay at natural without further training.

Also, although I like the feature, the training a player to become two-footed is strange. How many players have you seen IRL that have improved their weak foot drastically? There's not many. You're either naturally two-footed, able to use both or one-footed IMO. This shouldn't really change.

Not true at all. I've spoke to some of the best coaches in the game recently for ClearcutChance and lots of them try improving a players weaker foot. It happens a lot more than you assume.

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Cleon is right on this. I remember how Pavel Nedved spoke about how he trained his left foot to be better than his right one. He is right-footed by nature.

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@Cleon: Do you know what are the attributes affected by the differences in position familiarity? I wonder if it is worth training a player from accomplished to natural if the impact is marginal.

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nature position also affects how player attributes are distributed but trained to natural position does not

What about the impact during the match? Certainly a "competent/accomplished" fullback unlikely to play as well as a "natural" fullback even though they both have the exact same set of attributes. So will mental attributes such as positioning, off the ball, decision be affected for a "competent" position vs a "natural" position?

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Decision attribute gets penalized when playing out of position, if I remember it correctly.

-SnUrF

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Cleon is right on this. I remember how Pavel Nedved spoke about how he trained his left foot to be better than his right one. He is right-footed by nature.

Yeah I remember Nedved doing it, hence why I said 'not many'. But generally I think it's extremely rare that you see noticable improvements on a players weaker foot.

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Decision attribute gets penalized when playing out of position, if I remember it correctly.

Can someone verify that?

If it's the case, most of the technical and seconday mental attributes should be affected, since they are related to decisions attribute.

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Can someone verify that?

If it's the case, most of the technical and seconday mental attributes should be affected, since they are related to decisions attribute.

Why should technical attributes be affected? A player doesn't suddenly lose his first touch or passing ability simply because he is playing out of position.

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Decision making is lowered when playing out of position.

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Decision making is lowered when playing out of position.

Cleon, do you happen to know how big a hit it is for each level of unfamiliarity- accomplished, competent etc.?

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Why should technical attributes be affected? A player doesn't suddenly lose his first touch or passing ability simply because he is playing out of position.

First touch may not be affected, but passing is almost certainly affected by Decisions attribute.

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First touch may not be affected, but passing is almost certainly affected by Decisions attribute.

Well, not in the way that he means it. Yes, it is affected because the player might make a poor decision and try a pass he ought not, but if it is a good passing option, then his skill to deliver accurately is not going to be affected.

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I have a question that regards accomplished vs natural. How big is the difference? Is it wort retraining the player? Also at higher age, let's say reaching their 30s?

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Not true at all. I've spoke to some of the best coaches in the game recently for ClearcutChance and lots of them try improving a players weaker foot. It happens a lot more than you assume.

True. Warning: I will, for a moment, talk about myself. I usually hate people who do this on discussion fora, so from today onwards I'll proceed to hate myself. Bear with me.

I can speak from experience: I used to be a right foot player until I was around 10. Then some kid down the street told me he was two footed, so I wanted to become two footed as well. Only trained with my left foot. Nowadays I only use my right foot when walking. Some of it is down to genetics, though. I am (or was), for some reason, ambidextrous. At a very young age, my performance with both my left and my right hands were equal. I was trained to become right handed because it would be easier in the future. I'm sure it works the other way around as well: not being able to improve much because the player simply is not really naturally gifted. CSB.

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I have a question that regards accomplished vs natural. How big is the difference? Is it wort retraining the player? Also at higher age, let's say reaching their 30s?

I'm also curious about the exact penalty, but from nat to accomplished imo is not really noticeable in game. If you can retrain the player in a short time, it's probably worthwhile if that is where you will be using him- every little bit helps. As for age, the only modifier I am aware of is a player's versatility rating which is hidden. A low rating will mean he won't learn the new position, or it will take ages to improve to the next level in it. When I do it, if I am playing the player in the position and training him at the same time, if I don't see an improvement in 2-3 months I will bail on it as it seems at that point he is not very versatile.

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I specified the age to say: at this stage of career is it worth or to retrain for this bit of difference between accomplished and natural, or it's better not to waste training time and use it at something else?

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I specified the age to say: at this stage of career is it worth or to retrain for this bit of difference between accomplished and natural, or it's better not to waste training time and use it at something else?

If he's got a good few years left in him, and you think you'll get a couple more seasons out of him, it would be worth a shot in my book. Since he's developed fully as a player you won't be losing valuable development time over a lost cause if it doesn't work. If it does, then you've made him just a bit better. You'll know relatively quickly whether it "takes" or not, no more than half-season I should think.

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