Goodbye FM 2014

[Dagenham_Dave]

I'm not sure how i am supposed to take responsebility for this when i dont think its my tactics or formation that is the problem

So, by deduction you're basically saying the game is cheating you then? Or it's broken?

That being the case, see when you were winning lots, why wasn't the game broken or cheating you at that point?

[Rob4590]

I would love to learn a way for me to improve of my team if someone could give me a valid response as to why suddenly mid season my team completely stops scoring goals. The answer (its your tactics) doesnt help me much as those tactics have flourished my team for 2 and a half seasons.

More information. Well i am playing a danish 2nd division team in our main league now. I won the main league last year with a record breaking 72 points. I am as i said using the 41221 tactic with focus on wingers. My central defenders used to be a stopper and a (normal?) central defender, but the stopper seamed to be out of place to much so i changed it to be more defensive as both my defending wingers are on offensive to offer support in the attack.

My teams approach is very attacking and fluid and i play a short passing game. I have a large focus on ball controll and offensive movement(i'm not 100% sure about the different words since i play the danish version)

Your last sentence explains it all - in the first couple of seasons, your team's reputation was lower - so they will have attacked you (or tried to) as they THINK they are better than you and you then have space to attack them back - and done so successfully. Now that you have done well for 2 years, your rep has gone up - so suddenly a lot of teams that used to attack you will now think you are better and will set up to defend - in this case, your attacking tactic runs into a massed defence and doesn't work as well, leading to large numbers of rushed, long range shots as your players have no options. Then you get hit on the counter and lose matches that you think you have dominated.

This is a VERY common complaint on the Tactics forum - and is usually solved by making a LESS attacking tactic that invites the oppostion out of their defensive shell more - giving you that room to create better chances.

As a very basic bit of advice - reduce your mentality from attacking to control and reduce the tempo. And if you want further, detailed help - then post a thread in the Tactics forum where you will get help - so long as you don't give attitude to those who offer it.

[Happee2]

We can give educated guesses. I suspect it is down to your reputation having risen so much that everyone packs the defence against you, meaning you can't find any space in the final third. Given you are in Denmark (a country I know well) I'd imagine the poor weather and pitch condition also bogs down an attacking, very fluid team. Please note that I have no time for any claims that the 4-1-2-2-1 is inherently better than any other shape and thus shouldn't "just fail". FM is far more nuanced than that.

Please also note, if you write "if you read what I wrote" once again, I'll close this thread. If multiple people can't understand what you are trying to say, then the fault is probably yours.

I'm not saying its better then everything else, just that it has worked very well for me. I do think i was being very clear in my previous messages but fair enough.

I'm not really sure what to do it them going full defense just nullfies my team. I can change it to less fluid but i dont think that will help against a tightly packed defense. I've tried giving my midfielders more chances at shooting from afar but with 14 and 15 in it they arent very succesfull and often just add to the lots of chances on goal but no goals statistic that i am having.

[Happee2]

Your last sentence explains it all - in the first couple of seasons, your team's reputation was lower - so they will have attacked you (or tried to) as they THINK they are better than you and you then have space to attack them back - and done so successfully. Now that you have done well for 2 years, your rep has gone up - so suddenly a lot of teams that used to attack you will now think you are better and will set up to defend - in this case, your attacking tactic runs into a massed defence and doesn't work as well, leading to large numbers of rushed, long range shots as your players have no options. Then you get hit on the counter and lose matches that you think you have dominated.

This is a VERY common complaint on the Tactics forum - and is usually solved by making a LESS attacking tactic that invites the oppostion out of their defensive shell more - giving you that room to create better chances.

As a very basic bit of advice - reduce your mentality from attacking to control and reduce the tempo. And if you want further, detailed help - then post a thread in the Tactics forum where you will get help - so long as you don't give attitude to those who offer it.

This is exactly what i was looking for. I am playing a controll mentality though. I would hate to have to completely change my formation but i'l try it out in a few saves.

[Jimbokav1971]

Happee. Just humour an old bloke for a second and try something.

If you have a TM, False 9, Deep Lying Forward or Defensive Forward as your SC then set him to support rather than attack.

If you have anything else then keep him on attack and instead change your wingers to support.

Change your full backs to support rather than defend.

Change your DM to defend.

I will leave it completely up to you what you do with your 2 midfielders. Just TRY this for a month and see what happens, (maybe in conjunction with letting your strikers take turns at demolishing the U18's in your Reserve fixtures.

It's gotta be worth a go hasn't it?

Anyway, that's enough from me.

[Dagenham_Dave]

This is exactly what i was looking for. I am playing a controll mentality though. I would hate to have to completely change my formation but i'l try it out in a few saves.

There should be no need to change your whole formation. If that formation has been successful for you, there's no real need to change the basic shape. It's how you instruct your players to play within that formation against certain opponents that's the key. I'm still trying to get to grips with this aspect myself. It can be quite challenging.

[Kenco]

As others have said, it's about your sudden reputation increase and teams suddenly playing more defensive against you, which means your very attacking strategy is just running into a brick wall who then counter you and create just one or two very good chances per game. It's a very common problem for many FM players because they don't understand enough about how tactics work, they just see "team wins = tactics good".

You need to be more patient in your attacking play, play a control strategy and try to work the ball into the box. Make sure you have a solid base defensively and don't overcommit players forward and you will break teams down eventually.

[Jimbokav1971]

There should be no need to change your whole formation. If that formation has been successful for you, there's no real need to change the basic shape. It's how you instruct your players to play within that formation against certain opponents that's the key. I'm still trying to get to grips with this aspect myself. It can be quite challenging.

Well said. Even something so seemingly small as changing a player role with an existing tactic or pattern can have a huge impact. Also, there is the balance between what the player is most suited to and what you actually need him to do within the team tactic.

[looking busy]

Im no expert but this seems quite an unbalanced tactic.

you are playing something like this.

----GK----

DL DC DC DR

----DM----

--MC MC--

AML---- AMR

----SC----

Both your wingers are in attack instruction.

Strangely enough both your full-backs are also on attack instruction.

You might get away with this if your DM was on defend and he could just drop in and make a 3, but you have already said he is on support.

What role have you given your SC?

I play a similar style but I have a support TM.

My full backs are on support rather than defend.

My DM is on defend.

As wwfan suggested though, maybe you are no paying the price for your previous success. Rather than just attack this little team that have just got promoted, they are defending and you are finding it hard to break down.

Like I said I am far from an expert, but i would say that there are significant issues with the make up of your tactic. You can either just ignore me and say that you were winning before, but the reality is that you are not winning now. You were winning at a lower level and it's possible that you have been over-performing. Now though you are not and you need to do something about it.

I've been using that formation for the last 4 seasons.

I have my DM set as ball winning midfielder with defend.

My two CM's - One as DLP and the other BBM.

The two wingers are set to support and the striker as an AF.

I'd like to be able to have two CM's good enough that I could take the DM out and use an AM, but at my level and the level of player I can attract is just isn't possible. All my defenders are set to limited.

We don't score a huge amount but equally don't concede a lot either. My fear is going a little gung ho and us getting battered a couple of times in a row and morale going through the floor. I tried 2 up front (taking out the DM) but we were too open.

[Jimbokav1971]

I've been using that formation for the last 4 seasons.

I have my DM set as ball winning midfielder with defend.

My two CM's - One as DLP and the other BBM.

The two wingers are set to support and the striker as an AF.

I'd like to be able to have two CM's good enough that I could take the DM out and use an AM, but at my level and the level of player I can attract is just isn't possible. All my defenders are set to limited.

We don't score a huge amount but equally don't concede a lot either. My fear is going a little gung ho and us getting battered a couple of times in a row and morale going through the floor. I tried 2 up front (taking out the DM) but we were too open.

I'm struggling in Serie A at the moment, (with San Marino), and I have decided to opt for a DM, MC AMC trio rather than 2 MC's. It seems to be paying dividends but I just don't like it despite the success. I am doing better against the bigger teams, (who want to attack me), but often struggling against seemingly weaker teams.

I think that the above sort of fits in with the problems Happee is having, (but in reverse).

[Rob4590]

This is exactly what i was looking for. I am playing a controll mentality though. I would hate to have to completely change my formation but i'l try it out in a few saves.

Ok - so you aren't quite as gung-ho as your post made out. However - to change things correctly, you need to give us more info on roles and duties of your players, plus team (and player) instructions. Again from your posts, it appears you have quite a lot of attack duties - which will cause these issues. Let us have this info and I (and others far better at the game) will be able to give more specific advice

[Happee2]

Ok - so you aren't quite as gung-ho as your post made out. However - to change things correctly, you need to give us more info on roles and duties of your players, plus team (and player) instructions. Again from your posts, it appears you have quite a lot of attack duties - which will cause these issues. Let us have this info and I (and others far better at the game) will be able to give more specific advice

Ok stay on, i'l load up and give a complete set of instructions on my team

[Happee2]

Ok so from the top. i have 2 central defenders. One with a defence duty and one with a upbacker duty?(its the one that is not the stopper duty). Two fullbacks with offensive duty. One Regista(DM) with a support duty. Two central midfielders, one with a deep lying playmaker and one with a Forward playmaker. Then i have a left winger with offensive duty and a right winger(who is set as the attacker option of it) with an offensive duty. Then there is my attacker. I'm not 100% sure how best to use him. I shift a bit from poacher to forward attacker.

i play a control and very fluid formation. Short passing play, use the wings(the one who tells them to basicly play the ball more to your wingers, play broader(the other one), Push higher up, Higher Tempo and then i've tried with some play up from defense and also to set my GK to play the ball short and to a defender because a lot of my goalkicks end at the opposing team(he has something like 30% passing after most matches and i want that to change)

[forameuss]

Ok so from the top. i have 2 central defenders. One with a defence duty and one with a upbacker duty?(its the one that is not the stopper duty). Two fullbacks with offensive duty. One Regista(DM) with a support duty. Two central midfielders, one with a deep lying playmaker and one with a Forward playmaker. Then i have a left winger with offensive duty and a right winger(who is set as the attacker option of it) with an offensive duty. Then there is my attacker. I'm not 100% sure how best to use him. I shift a bit from poacher to forward attacker.

i play a control and very fluid formation. Short passing play, use the wings(the one who tells them to basicly play the ball more to your wingers, play broader(the other one), Push higher up, Higher Tempo and then i've tried with some play up from defense and also to set my GK to play the ball short and to a defender because a lot of my goalkicks end at the opposing team(he has something like 30% passing after most matches and i want that to change)

The tactics forum would still be the best place for this, as you'll get more information there, but your roles don't seem right. Both flanks are bombing forward, and that will leave you hopelessly exposed, especially if your DM is helping out the midfielders. Is your advanced playmaker on attack or support?

I'm also fairly sure the Very Fluid should be for tactics with very few specialised roles. Regista would be one of these, so I'd look to change that. Not sure what to, again there's a great guide on it in the tactics forum.

[9sublime]

I rarely change my tactical approach. I am three leagues, and 9 seasons on with the same team. My performances have not fluctuated that much, although I had a dreadful start to the career.

It is not hard coded into the game that performances suddenly become awful.

[Flohrinho]

I've used it for 2 and a half years ingame and its worked perfectly so far. its also one of the most used in general if you search for tactics so no, its not the tactic. Out of nowhere my team stopped scoring.

If you are interested i'm using a 41221 tactic with focus on offensive wingers scoring the goals.

And that's the problem. You use the same tactic while your reputation is changing, what worked for you when you were the underdog doesn't mean it will work for you when you are the favorite in every game. In FM.

But I'll grant you that winning against underdogs is much harder in FM 14 then beating the big teams, those teams in the relegation zone are especially deadly with their 110% chance conversion rate.

[Rob4590]

Ok so from the top. i have 2 central defenders. One with a defence duty and one with a upbacker duty?(its the one that is not the stopper duty). Two fullbacks with offensive duty. One Regista(DM) with a support duty. Two central midfielders, one with a deep lying playmaker and one with a Forward playmaker. Then i have a left winger with offensive duty and a right winger(who is set as the attacker option of it) with an offensive duty. Then there is my attacker. I'm not 100% sure how best to use him. I shift a bit from poacher to forward attacker.

i play a control and very fluid formation. Short passing play, use the wings(the one who tells them to basicly play the ball more to your wingers, play broader(the other one), Push higher up, Higher Tempo and then i've tried with some play up from defense and also to set my GK to play the ball short and to a defender because a lot of my goalkicks end at the opposing team(he has something like 30% passing after most matches and i want that to change)

Yes it is too attacking - apart from your DCs you have no-one defending. You need one of your three central midfielders to simply sit in front of the defence - usually the DMC, especially if you want both your fullbacks on attack. Then you appear to have both your wingers also on attacking - which is a bit unbalanced and will mean that all your wide players are trying to get forward all the time - but are out wide. Poacher as a lone forward is not recommended - you could go with the advanced forward / complete forward, but the normal recommendation is a DLF(s) / F9 - especially if you wide men are on attack. The problem is that you have no-one running into the box to finish off moves - either they are creating from deep (DLP/AP) or running wide (W(A)).

So i would suggest (and please note I am no expert) that you try making one of the wingers an IF(s), with the fullback behind him on attack, while on the other side keep a W(A) but make the FB(s). Change the regista to either A(D) / DM(D) / HB(D). The IF will run towards the middle giving you someone else to finish off moves created by the DLP/AP/W, while the DM will break up any counter attacks better than the REG (who is very attacking for a DM)

A couple of contradictions in your team instructions as well - pass shorter is difficult to get to work with play wider as your players are further apart (and therefore who is there to pass short to?). As I said before, lower the tempo to create less chances, but the ones you do create will be better quality chances.

Finally - you have 3 playmakers in the midfield (REG/DLP/AP) and yet you are telling the team to exploit the wings - ie to ignore playing through the middle.

So I would suggest initially trying simply push higher and work ball out of defence and see how that goes

[RTHerringbone]

It sounds to me like a very imbalanced set up - too much attacking up both flanks, no defensive solidity in midfield, too many playmakers and as and when you use a Poacher - a poor choice of lone striker Role.

If your reputation has increased and you continue to play an all-out attacking style, then you really are just needlessly banging your head against a brick wall. You need to strike a balance in your team, and play a more composed and patient game to create gaps to exploit.

There are two excellent threads about the basics in the Tactics forum:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/366111-How-to-Play-FM14-A-Twelve-Step-Guide

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/375632-Pairs-amp-Combinations-The-Complete-Series

Then Cleon pulls bits of both together in the way he describes how he builds and amends a tactic:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/377489-Creating-A-Tactic-Design-Create-and-Maintain

[alian62]

Do do Dum Dee Dont Worry be Happy !!

[Jimbokav1971]

Brilliant post Rob.

[DuncanJM]

I am a bit confused as to the system that is actually being used Happee, please please please raise this in the tactics forum like umpteen people have been suggesting and post a screenshot or typed out formation, player roles and instructions. Perhaps show some screenshots of match reports that you have struggled in, and see the help flood in.

Just reading through this, it is not clear at all how you line up.

[themadsheep2001]

This is a family forum. Please do not attempt to circumvent the swear filter.

[Cougar2010]

I'm surprised Happee has had as much success as he has for two+ seasons given how unbalanced his formation/tactics seem to be.

As others have said the general gist is that your players are far too attacking which limits your options going forwards and leaves you very weak defensively. Now that your rep has improved other teams are playing more defensive against you and looking to exploit the space you leave on the counter.

Also there is no such thing as one successful formation/tactic in FM, you need to constantly adapt to the players you sign and what the other teams are doing on the pitch.

Have a read of some of the threads linked in the tactics forum, ask advice if you are unsure about anything and maybe start a thread with a pic of your current formation/tactics, explain what you are trying to achieve and you'll get advice as to where you are going wrong.

[function11]

Same thing happened to me.

I got a discredited team from the second league of Italy and made it reach 6th first season, then 4th second season. In the third season i was in 3th, 3 points away from the 2nd and in a well played campaign. 4 games to the final of the league my team simply lost EVERY SINGLE GAME. The hole season the lowest position i got was 5th and that in the first games, then all way up.

This is not a crappy game, but there are some serious flaws in it. I've been playing since Championship Manager 01/02, so i do know a lot what i'm talking about.

It is ridiculous when the keeper runs into the ball and then just pass by it.... PASS BY IT!.

I would like to know, if any moderator could tell me, where i can do this kind of complaint.

I came here because i saw Hapee2 trying to make a point, and everyone in the deffensive, bragging around, when he had some really good points.

Well, i think people here should be more humble.

[forameuss]

Same thing happened to me.

I got a discredited team from the second league of Italy and made it reach 6th first season, then 4th second season. In the third season i was in 3th, 3 points away from the 2nd and in a well played campaign. 4 games to the final of the league my team simply lost EVERY SINGLE GAME. The hole season the lowest position i got was 5th and that in the first games, then all way up.

This is not a crappy game, but there are some serious flaws in it. I've been playing since Championship Manager 01/02, so i do know a lot what i'm talking about.

It is ridiculous when the keeper runs into the ball and then just pass by it.... PASS BY IT!.

I would like to know, if any moderator could tell me, where i can do this kind of complaint.

I came here because i saw Hapee2 trying to make a point, and everyone in the deffensive, bragging around, when he had some really good points.

Well, i think people here should be more humble.

I think you should maybe read the topic a bit better and realise that Hapee ended up having some fundamental tactical issues that have been explained.

Also, playing the game for however many editions in the series isn't some big teflon shield that deflects everything. You can still make mistakes, and it doesn't automatically make it the game's fault.

[Kenco]

I came here because i saw Hapee2 trying to make a point, and everyone in the deffensive, bragging around, when he had some really good points.

Well, i think people here should be more humble.

Well I think you should read the thread again as you seem to have missed most of the posts that explained where he was going wrong. Please enlighten us on these really good points that he made, as I can't see them.

[function11]

I saw that he had issues, but that does make right how he was treated.

The fact that i play for a long time (really long time) doesn't make it a big teflon shield of a flawless player (what i didn't said), but it seems to be your own argument. You miss a lot of skills of interpretation.

I was really sad when i read what the moderator said "Please also note, if you write "if you read what I wrote" once again, I'll close this thread. If multiple people can't understand what you are trying to say, then the fault is probably yours." What i saw was not people don't understanding, but people accusing and judging.

If someone says the game has a problem it doesn't mean he's just cursing the game or whatever. I came to this forum to say that the game has some flaws because i want it to be fixed and because i like the game and like this kind of game. And obviously because i spent money on it.

[kontermann]

I came to this forum to say that the game has some flaws because i want it to be fixed and because i like the game and like this kind of game. And obviously because i spent money on it.

You can most probably "fix" those "flaws" by checking out some threads in the tactics forum and amending your tactics so that you can get back to the winning ways

[forameuss]

I saw that he had issues, but that does make right how he was treated.

He hardly got stabbed. He got the help he wanted, despite initially refusing it from several people. I'd say this turned out a lot better than a lot of threads, as he started to give us a lot more information that we could use to help. And I'd expect him to have changed his viewpoint a little from when he started the thread.

The fact that i play for a long time (really long time) doesn't make it a big teflon shield of a flawless player (what i didn't said), but it seems to be your own argument. You miss a lot of skills of interpretation.

Aye, I'm sure I do. But that line is trotted out so many times that it's clear what its meaning is. "I've played so much that I cannot be wrong". You could have been an expert in every game up to this one, it doesn't mean you will be here, as every game is different. To say otherwise just smacks of you not wanting anyone's help. And as I said, it's been said so many times before.

You really need to read the thread, seriously. You're claiming that this proves there are flaws in the game, when really all this has proved is that the OP - Hapee2 - had an unbalanced tactical set-up that was only now being exposed. And he seems happy to accept that. That's fine - but insisting that the game has problems because you can't be bothered seeing if it's actually a problem you have first is the real issue here.

[function11]

Yeah, that's how the game have been improving since 2001, tactics.

Thank you for the attention.

You can most probably "fix" those "flaws" by checking out some threads in the tactics forum and amending your tactics so that you can get back to the winning ways

[Kenco]

function11:

So you lose a couple of games and assume it's the games fault because it has flaw?

Are you at least open to the possiblity that it might be something you are doing wrong? I'm not saying it definitely is but you need to be open to accepting advice before anyone can actually help.

[kontermann]

Yeah, that's how the game have been improving since 2001, tactics.

Thank you for the attention.

If you really want get help, make up your mind and check out the tactics forum.

Im sure you will find something there.

[El Presidente]

Had enough myself. Onto FIFA for a while I think.

I'm not dominating with nearly 70% possession with more shots at goal, less long shots, more shots on target, more CCCs with far better players...

... and losing 7-1!!!!!!!!

Sort the game out then I'll be back!

[kontermann]

welcome back in 5 minutes

[RTHerringbone]

This thread has spiraled downwards rapidly. Closed before more circular discussion continues.

To the opening poster, I implore you to heed the advice here and post appropriately in the Bugs Forum to get the advice you need to turn the corner.