Rainmaker v2 and Silk & Steel v2.......... A Combined Arms approach to FM

[MTM1977]

*** Note - I had a slow start and was nearly sacked in October/November, I know a few would have been on here shouting 'the tactic doesn't work!'. Give it time and you will put good runs of results togther ****

If i didn't know from earlier experience, i would be saying exactly that now

Our start with Stockport in Skybet League 2 has been far from good. First 5 matches, 1 win, 1 draw and 3 losses.

Still, early in the season and plenty of time to turn things around.

[Finknottle]

Mr Rosler, Another question. When playing in European competitions does the Rainmaker, home and S&S away system still hold good? I am wondering that because the opponents would be better teams that staying on S&S, home and away may be the way to go, at least, at first.

[Mr U Rosler]

Mr Rosler, Another question. When playing in European competitions does the Rainmaker, home and S&S away system still hold good? I am wondering that because the opponents would be better teams that staying on S&S, home and away may be the way to go, at least, at first.

The only experience I had with this was with Chelsea. I used rainmaker a lot in the group stages as we were often favourites.

In the knockout stage we were drawn away in the first leg everytime. Everytime I used S&S away, got a lead then protected it with S&S at home.

If I had lost or drawn away I would have used rainmaker.

Due to the away goals rule there I's actually a case for S&S home, Rainmaker away.

Bit up in the air this one. Each game on its merits I guess.

[Finknottle]

Agreed, I came unstuck vs Sporting Lisbon. Played Rainmaker at home, lost 1-2. Had to play Rainmaker away and drew 1-1. Not to worry, will know better next season. Still second eleven behind Chelski with only six games left, also in the FA Cup semi vs Cardiff.

[mcd9a]

The only experience I had with this was with Chelsea. I used rainmaker a lot in the group stages as we were often favourites.

In the knockout stage we were drawn away in the first leg everytime. Everytime I used S&S away, got a lead then protected it with S&S at home.

If I had lost or drawn away I would have used rainmaker.

Due to the away goals rule there I's actually a case for S&S home, Rainmaker away.

Bit up in the air this one. Each game on its merits I guess.

I am doing amazing with chelsea first season, just beat real madrid 5-0 at home in knockout phase of champs league! conceded 5 goals in league so far and im in late Feb!

[Mr U Rosler]

I am doing amazing with chelsea first season, just beat real madrid 5-0 at home in knockout phase of champs league! conceded 5 goals in league so far and im in late Feb!

Did you sign anyone?

[paul7875]

mr rosler what changes did you to to rainmaker v2 and s&s v2 from original versions a just cant seem to get them to work to any good effect so i still use the first s&s and 1st rainmaker just added your set pieces from v2 and seems to work better for some reason

[Mr U Rosler]

mr rosler what changes did you to to rainmaker v2 and s&s v2 from original versions a just cant seem to get them to work to any good effect so i still use the first s&s and 1st rainmaker just added your set pieces from v2 and seems to work better for some reason

Dont really want to just list a load of changes.

My tests results were better with v2's but if you like the originals thats cool too

[mcd9a]

Did you sign anyone?

nope, although iv got shaw & zouma coming in at end of season, agreed it in january. hoping to try and get falcao for next season to use instead of ba

[Cesc_cil]

won league one with mk dons at the first attempt mostly using silk & steel, the championship is going to be a test for even your tactic. My squad is not very good and i have 0 money

[MTM1977]

If i didn't know from earlier experience, i would be saying exactly that now

Our start with Stockport in Skybet League 2 has been far from good. First 5 matches, 1 win, 1 draw and 3 losses.

Still, early in the season and plenty of time to turn things around.

18 games played. We are now on the last play off spot. Trailing 1st place by just 3 points.

So, things are looking much better, but still have not hit any long win streaks. 3 games streak is the longest at the moment.

[mischievous]

My results:

Media prediction: 20th, i'm 3rd with 6 games to go.

And I'm the team with lower salary budget in my division.

[druefar60]

Hi there

Thanks for your hard work on the tactics! Still struggling a bit with my Liverpool side (implemented the tactics in jan-window), but i am reserving judgement until next season as this season we are playing all home games on etihad due to expansion (super realistic ).

I have two questions, one specifically related to the tactic and one more in general:

1. Do any of you also have problems with central midfielders becomming unhappy at the amount of competition? Having 8 central midfielders in the squad to cover the 4 positions seems completely reasonable to me, but i think the game is slightly flawed here, and don't take the tactic into consideration when players react to the number of 'rivals' in the squad. - And how do you cope?

2. How do you guys set up your training workloads? I've normally had the overall workload on normal and individual training on average/high (depending on professionality) while allowing rest days after games. However this time around I've tried setting overall workload to low, individual training on high and no rest days in order to minimize the increases in unwanted attributes in the individual player, which seems logical in theory to me, but i haven't really seen much difference other than my players starting to get jaded alot towards the end of the season.

Cheers

[Mr U Rosler]

Hi there

Thanks for your hard work on the tactics! Still struggling a bit with my Liverpool side (implemented the tactics in jan-window), but i am reserving judgement until next season as this season we are playing all home games on etihad due to expansion (super realistic ).

I have two questions, one specifically related to the tactic and one more in general:

1. Do any of you also have problems with central midfielders becomming unhappy at the amount of competition? Having 8 central midfielders in the squad to cover the 4 positions seems completely reasonable to me, but i think the game is slightly flawed here, and don't take the tactic into consideration when players react to the number of 'rivals' in the squad. - And how do you cope?

2. How do you guys set up your training workloads? I've normally had the overall workload on normal and individual training on average/high (depending on professionality) while allowing rest days after games. However this time around I've tried setting overall workload to low, individual training on high and no rest days in order to minimize the increases in unwanted attributes in the individual player, which seems logical in theory to me, but i haven't really seen much difference other than my players starting to get jaded alot towards the end of the season.

Cheers

Hi,

1- never had an issue or message relating to this. Some of my midfielders are natural DM and AMC. It might be that all yours happen to be natural MC.

2 - my long terms saves are with small clubs with poor facilities. My tests are 1 season only so I only don't really go un depth with training I just want my guys match fit, I just leave it average,

[MTM1977]

1. Do any of you also have problems with central midfielders becomming unhappy at the amount of competition? Having 8 central midfielders in the squad to cover the 4 positions seems completely reasonable to me, but i think the game is slightly flawed here, and don't take the tactic into consideration when players react to the number of 'rivals' in the squad. - And how do you cope?

I have seen this quite often actually.

I usually just select the "don't worry, you are still my number one choice" or something like that (can't remember the exact wording).

That will make them happy and as they will get plenty of games to play in, they will see the promise fulfilled too.

edit:

The players worried about rivalry, are often younger players, who don't have strong mental stats yet.

Players with stronger mental stats, never care about the rivalry.

[JordanBlackpoolFC]

Can you download this through steam?

[Mr U Rosler]

Can you download this through steam?

No, it's pretty simple to download from here.

[widowmaker-]

Can you download this through steam?

Wonder if your the Jord i know?

[burnum]

Just a small update from my save using the Fulcrum series: I took over West Ham in 2021 after successful stints in Germany with Paderborn and Bayern. West Ham are in the Championship and failed to get promoted the last 2 seasons before I took over. The club is financially healthy (15m transfer budget) but my squad is really old and doesn't have any decent youngsters to build on. Some of the 'real life' Hammers players (e.g. Mark Noble, Andy Carroll) are still there and are now deep into their thirties and on high wages. We have a regen striker with English/Brazilian dual nationality who seems to be the real deal. A lot of Premier League clubs are interested in him but he's under contract for 3 more years so no need to sell.

My goal is to rebuild the squad and get promoted in my first season with them. Once I can (hopefully) establish them in the Premiership the club has a lot of potential with a big stadium and good youth facilities. The board wants us to at least reach the playoffs but I think we can do better.

After half a season (boxing day 2021) we're top of the table, 7 pts clear of 2nd placed QPR. I kept some of the older guys for depth and to mentor the youngsters and I brought in a lot of free/cheap bargains. The tactics are working absolutely great so far (using Rainmaker at home, S&S away).

[kenzo07]

Excellent Tactic which works beautifully. I tweaked a little bit to counter those teams who park the bus against your team. If you have good players who are able to play at CWB for both sides, using them in home games will create an extra presence on the wings immediately when the F9 or the CM(A) receives the ball as the CWBs will be busting their asses to get up there which gives the F9 and CM(A) an option to carry on the momentum and move the ball along.

Sometimes I find that the FB(S) might get up there slower which result in the CM(A) or F9 delaying the pass and killing the momentum at times. Of course in away games against the bigger teams, I think its better to stick to FB(S) for more protection

[Mr U Rosler]

Just a small update from my save using the Fulcrum series: I took over West Ham in 2021 after successful stints in Germany with Paderborn and Bayern. West Ham are in the Championship and failed to get promoted the last 2 seasons before I took over. The club is financially healthy (15m transfer budget) but my squad is really old and doesn't have any decent youngsters to build on. Some of the 'real life' Hammers players (e.g. Mark Noble, Andy Carroll) are still there and are now deep into their thirties and on high wages. We have a regen striker with English/Brazilian dual nationality who seems to be the real deal. A lot of Premier League clubs are interested in him but he's under contract for 3 more years so no need to sell.

My goal is to rebuild the squad and get promoted in my first season with them. Once I can (hopefully) establish them in the Premiership the club has a lot of potential with a big stadium and good youth facilities. The board wants us to at least reach the playoffs but I think we can do better.

After half a season (boxing day 2021) we're top of the table, 7 pts clear of 2nd placed QPR. I kept some of the older guys for depth and to mentor the youngsters and I brought in a lot of free/cheap bargains. The tactics are working absolutely great so far (using Rainmaker at home, S&S away).

Thanks for the update. Looks like you've landed a plum job there.

Keep us posted!

[Through_The_Loop]

Doing brilliantly with Liverpool, using Rainmaker when i'm the favourite and Silk and Steel when im the underdog.

First Team Squad

League Table

Went on an unbelievable run after loosing my first game at home 2-1 to Everton, winning 14 league games (and only loosing in the CoC to Chelsea in ET) loosing the unbeaten league run at home to Villa 1-0

Gone on a little bit of a dry spell from christmas, struggling to score although not loosing many, this is probably down to just a poor run of form and injuries, on top of that i've had a falling out with Skrtel who was doing great and he is not an outcast.

Next season will probably be a lot tougher, with the posibility of Champions League and i'm looking at bringing in and building a squad around English players, ( Although keeping some of the top end player ie Suarez so i can still challenge, until my team is up to scratch) so my team may be weaker and need time to gel.

[Nokturno]

After a long break after winning the Skrill S with Tonbridge, just started my season in the Skrill Premier, won my first game away from home 6-0 using Silk and Steel. Early days but the squad is very strong

[craskidm]

Its been a while since ive posted here but there is something that is really bugging me about this game.

Im playing as Colwyn Bay in the Skrill Premier (promoted from Skrill North) Every year I flirt with relegation, I play with Rainmaker at home and S&S Away and use all the advice but I am finding two problems:

1) My full backs always give the ball away and never seem to attack, always on low rating 6.0 etc and always stated "Not having a great game". Any ideas?

2) I always seem to go 2-0 up and draw, I can say that all my draws this year have been this way, this is using the advise here too.

Any help would be appreciated . .

[MTM1977]

One thing i have been wondering:

How much difference there is, if player is natural or accomplished in certain position?

For example, when i am looking players for CM/A position, quite often potential candidates are actually natural in AMC and "only" accomplished in MC.

Should they always be retrained or can they be effective without it?

[burnum]

One thing i have been wondering:

How much difference there is, if player is natural or accomplished in certain position?

For example, when i am looking players for CM/A position, quite often potential candidates are actually natural in AMC and "only" accomplished in MC.

Should they always be retrained or can they be effective without it?

If you want to use him long-term in the 'accomplished' position I'd recommend to retrain him. If he's only a stop-gap or injury replacement I wouldn't bother. I think when a player doesn't have a position as 'natural' he will perform less consistent than in his 'natural' position. He can have a good game at the new position but he'll also have the occasional off-day.

[Mr U Rosler]

Its been a while since ive posted here but there is something that is really bugging me about this game.

Im playing as Colwyn Bay in the Skrill Premier (promoted from Skrill North) Every year I flirt with relegation, I play with Rainmaker at home and S&S Away and use all the advice but I am finding two problems:

1) My full backs always give the ball away and never seem to attack, always on low rating 6.0 etc and always stated "Not having a great game". Any ideas?

2) I always seem to go 2-0 up and draw, I can say that all my draws this year have been this way, this is using the advise here too.

Any help would be appreciated . .

Not really issues i'm familiar with to be honest.

Perhaps try starting with S&S for all games as I know a few have had success this way in lower divisions.

[Houndd]

Invincible's V2.0

Tactics have been brilliant, absolutely no inconsistency, only loss I picked up the entire season was in the Capital One Cup Final to Man city who gave me multiple close games throughout the season in league and FA Cup such as the following game which I drew earning a FA Cup 6th round replay.

The Rainmaker v2 seemed to be the most successful of the two tactics for me, I was originally using the Silk & Steel v2 in difficult games such as the above and switched to the Rainmaker v2 which is what I believe resulted in the two goals to bring the game to a draw and earning the replay, from then on I used Rainmaker in every single game which did result in conceding slightly more goals I believe but I was scoring goals for fun with my main complete forward scoring 55 in 56, main false nine 24 in 40 and other two strikers 15 in 14 and 13 in 20.

After this season I am gonna resign from Nottingham forest and try out the Italian league on the same save and see if I can eventually get similar results.

Brilliant set of tactics!

Edit: Should probably have added that I have been using your variations of this tactic for 9 seasons and have brought and trained my youth following the information given in this thread.

...

IMO I would recommend you look at your full backs and see if they suit the tactic and are decent in the attributes that have been outlined important for the position in Mr U Rosler's opening posts, from my own experience with his two tactics my fullbacks are averaging atleast 7.5 per game over the entire season in particular my right back who has a average rating of 8.

[Mr U Rosler]

Invincible's V2.0

Tactics have been brilliant, absolutely no inconsistency, only loss I picked up the entire season was in the Capital One Cup Final to Man city who gave me multiple close games throughout the season in league and FA Cup such as the following game which I drew earning a FA Cup 6th round replay.

The Rainmaker v2 seemed to be the most successful of the two tactics for me, I was originally using the Silk & Steel v2 in difficult games such as the above and switched to the Rainmaker v2 which is what I believe resulted in the two goals to bring the game to a draw and earning the replay, from then on I used Rainmaker in every single game which did result in conceding slightly more goals I believe but I was scoring goals for fun with my main complete forward scoring 55 in 56, main false nine 24 in 40 and other two strikers 15 in 14 and 13 in 20.

After this season I am gonna resign from Nottingham forest and try out the Italian league on the same save and see if I can eventually get similar results.

Brilliant set of tactics!

Edit: Should probably have added that I have been using your variations of this tactic for 9 seasons and have brought and trained my youth following the information given in this thread.

IMO I would recommend you look at your full backs and see if they suit the tactic and are decent in the attributes that have been outlined important for the position in Mr U Rosler's opening posts, from my own experience with his two tactics my fullbacks are averaging atleast 7.5 per game over the entire season in particular my right back who has a average rating of 8.

Well done mate. Shows what can be achieved when you build a team around the tactic over a few years taking it to a nightmare level of potency!

You've taken it further than I have, thanks for the feedback!

[Mr U Rosler]

Houndd 's experience's also confirms my thoughts that as you become stronger relative to your opponents in the division the more you should gravitate towards Rainmaker as your default tactic.

In my Chelsea save who were predicted 3rd or 4th i only started with Silk & Steel 5 times in Season 1. Possibly by Season 2, definately by Season 3 I would be starting with Rainmaker 100% of the time.

[burnum]

Just finished my first season with West Ham (2021/2022). We've dominated the Championship, finishing 1st with 113 pts (23 pts ahead of 2nd placed QPR). We've also managed to win the FA Cup, all the big teams went out early, we beat Villa & Fulham during the competition and beat Sunderland 2-0 in the Final.

When I took the Hammers job I knew the club had a lot of potential and we could win promotion but I'm kind of shocked of how great the season turned out. Next season we'll be back in the Premier League and I hope to finish in the top half. After winning the FA Cup we're also qualified for the Europa League but my main focus will probably be on the Premiership. The recent success will probably give the club a huge reputation boost so I hope to be able to bring in some reinforcements in the offseason.

Does anyone know when exactly the reputation changes take place in England?

[gmulv]

I'm using rainmaker version 1.

WIth southampton - started this one as I thought would be good fun to build the team up over some time. Using your tactics and pretty much the original squad I'm 8 points clear at the top of the permiership in season 1 with 7 games left to play.

I was expecting top half finish at best. Are your tactics that good, or is this just a coincidence and I'll be brought back to earth next season?

))

G

[JordanBlackpoolFC]

Wonder if your the Jord i know?

Probably, your the only person who calls me Jord

[Mr U Rosler]

Just finished my first season with West Ham (2021/2022). We've dominated the Championship, finishing 1st with 113 pts (23 pts ahead of 2nd placed QPR). We've also managed to win the FA Cup, all the big teams went out early, we beat Villa & Fulham during the competition and beat Sunderland 2-0 in the Final.

When I took the Hammers job I knew the club had a lot of potential and we could win promotion but I'm kind of shocked of how great the season turned out. Next season we'll be back in the Premier League and I hope to finish in the top half. After winning the FA Cup we're also qualified for the Europa League but my main focus will probably be on the Premiership. The recent success will probably give the club a huge reputation boost so I hope to be able to bring in some reinforcements in the offseason.

Does anyone know when exactly the reputation changes take place in England?

Nice one:brock:

Rep boost last week in June (when all best free transfers already gone).

[Cesc_cil]

so the media completely mugged me off and predicted i would finish plum last in the championship with mk dons, finished 5th! just to get past west ham in the play-off semis and whoever after.

[MTM1977]

If you want to use him long-term in the 'accomplished' position I'd recommend to retrain him. If he's only a stop-gap or injury replacement I wouldn't bother. I think when a player doesn't have a position as 'natural' he will perform less consistent than in his 'natural' position. He can have a good game at the new position but he'll also have the occasional off-day.

Thanks, that's pretty much what i thought, but i wasn't quite sure

I assume that if the player is around 30 years old, retraining to another position won't be possible anymore? Or will older players also learn new position to natural if they are already accomplished to start with?

[Cesc_cil]

1st leg finished in a tense 0-0 draw

2nd leg went to penalties after a 1-1 draw, i nearly had a cardiac arrest but we won 8-7 on pens

Wembely championship play-off final.

MK Dons 1

Huddersfield 2

Good effort but a step to far. Didn't help that 3 of my best players were on international duty.

[Mr U Rosler]

1st leg finished in a tense 0-0 draw

2nd leg went to penalties after a 1-1 draw, i nearly had a cardiac arrest but we won 8-7 on pens

Wembely championship play-off final.

MK Dons 1

Huddersfield 2

Good effort but a step to far. Didn't help that 3 of my best players were on international duty.

Unlucky. Bit of squad building over the summer and you should bag one of the automatic promotion spots. You reputation will get a nice boost so you should be able to attract players.

Although as has been mentioned it will be end of June before it kicks in.

[burnum]

Thanks, that's pretty much what i thought, but i wasn't quite sure

I assume that if the player is around 30 years old, retraining to another position won't be possible anymore? Or will older players also learn new position to natural if they are already accomplished to start with?

Depends on the player's versatility rating (hidden rating). In my experience it's possible to retrain older players from 'unconvincing' or 'competent' to 'accomplished' but it's not worthwhile to try to train them up to 'natural' (at least it takes ages, which most old players don't have). In an earlier save I once retrained Robben & Ribery to 'accomplished' strikers but I never got them up to 'natural'.

Besides, a player also has to play the majority of his games at the new position to learn it as 'natural'.

[jimbob1000]

Just popped in to say thank you, your tactics have saved FM for me!

First season with West Ham and I finished 6th and won the F A Cup

I'm almost finished season 2 and am actually challenging for the title

I use the RainmakerV2 at home if i'm odds on favourites and Silk and SteelV2 for all other games.

Just brilliant!

[MTM1977]

Depends on the player's versatility rating (hidden rating). In my experience it's possible to retrain older players from 'unconvincing' or 'competent' to 'accomplished' but it's not worthwhile to try to train them up to 'natural' (at least it takes ages, which most old players don't have). In an earlier save I once retrained Robben & Ribery to 'accomplished' strikers but I never got them up to 'natural'.

Besides, a player also has to play the majority of his games at the new position to learn it as 'natural'.

Ok, well playing in the new position shouldn't be a problem, because these tactics don't have the AMC position at all, so if the guy plays, it's in MC position

[burnum]

Ok, well playing in the new position shouldn't be a problem, because these tactics don't have the AMC position at all, so if the guy plays, it's in MC position

When you have an AMC you can basically go two directions - you can retrain him as MC or F9. I usually decide based on the player attributes and my team needs. In general, if he's more of a quick dribbler type (high dribbling & acc) I put him at MC so he can make those dangerous forward runs, if he's more of a creative passer (and maybe a decent scorer) I put him at F9 so he can set up goals for the CF.

[MTM1977]

When you have an AMC you can basically go two directions - you can retrain him as MC or F9. I usually decide based on the player attributes and my team needs. In general, if he's more of a quick dribbler type (high dribbling & acc) I put him at MC so he can make those dangerous forward runs, if he's more of a creative passer (and maybe a decent scorer) I put him at F9 so he can set up goals for the CF.

Never even thought about training to F9, interesting point.

This guy in question however had AMC natural and MC accomplished, but nothing as striker. So, probably would take too long to train for F9.

I am now in Skybet L2 with Stockport, would probably be in Premiership before he would be ready as F9

edit:

These are one of the main reason i love Mr U Rosler's tactics

[Scotty Walds]

Had a difficult start to life in the Championship, but it's amazing what a narrow win can do to confidence. 12 games gone, 18 points and in 11th. Form so far is LDLDWLLWWWDW. I'm using S&Sv2, and we've won the last 4 away games at N Forest, Leeds, Hull and Leicester.

I invested in a Polish international goalkeeper and a Croatian striker (albeit on free transfers), but it's Miles Addison on loan that seems to have done the trick. Just want to keep picking up points, and a mid-table finish would be fantastic.

[Houndd]

Just been watching a live stream and I'm pretty sure there's a guy on it that just renamed your tactic and is claiming it as his own with the name "Stratsie - The Fulcrum"

[Mr U Rosler]

Just been watching a live stream and I'm pretty sure there's a guy on it that just renamed your tactic and is claiming it as his own with the name "Stratsie - The Fulcrum"

that guy must be a complete KnobJockey.

[MTM1977]

Skybet L2 season nearing end with Stockport.

Everything still to play for:

Not bad at all with a team, whic would be great in Skrill Premier, but not so much in SB L2

Media prediction is 24th...

[lil ole me]

After leaving Man Utd and taking up the challenge at Norwich, this is my first season in charge.

I was predicted to finish 9th and the board wanted europa league qualification.......This has been one of the most satisying seasons in FM ........Using Rainmaker at home vs much weaker sides and silk n steel away or if i played any top sides at home i would use this too.

[Jambo98]

finished 3rd in my first season in Germany with Wolfsburg. Again using a mix of both tactics based on opposition strength and gut feel.

We had a media prediction of 7th, but had finished the previous season in 11th and when i took over had a squad in need of a big overhaul. So i made a lot changes, big turnover and that, combined with it being such a tough league meant 3rd was a good result. After blitzing Serie A with a newly promoted side last season, my own expectations were probably a bit high, but we ended up 4pts off the top and qualified for CL so cant be too unhappy!

Will give it another season to attempt to win in Germany before moving to Spain, France, or back to the Prem........

[drhay53]

The fullbacks are becoming a serious, serious problem for me in this tactic. They refuse to make any tackles and get skinned all day long for easy crosses. They're in good position and then they just let a guy run right by them.