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Mr U Rosler

Rainmaker v2 and Silk & Steel v2.......... A Combined Arms approach to FM

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Mr Rosler, when looking for players to fit the roles, do you look for 15+ in the key attribute for all divisions and just alter the range to look for in the other 3 attribute areas (i.e at least 11,12 or 13 in the prem, whereas possibly 7,8 or 9 for Skrill Prem)

very much dependent on the level you are at. i.e 8 for skrill prem is good for technical attributes. physical/mental attributes (acc/jumping reach/work rate etc) can still be high but still lower than prem likely.

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very much dependent on the level you are at. i.e 8 for skrill prem is good for technical attributes. physical/mental attributes (acc/jumping reach/work rate etc) can still be high but still lower than prem likely.

So if i created a filter for Skrill Prem, and then using your player attributes list in the OP if i searched for the key attribute to be 10+ and the other 3 attributes to be 8+ that should be ok, and then just adjust these when i move up the leagues.

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Still absolutely tearing it up in Serie A.

29 games in, and my Parma team are 14pts clear at the top...........unbelievable. Current league record reads played 29, won 19, drew 9, lost 1

My team really is nothing special either!

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So if i created a filter for Skrill Prem, and then using your player attributes list in the OP if i searched for the key attribute to be 10+ and the other 3 attributes to be 8+ that should be ok, and then just adjust these when i move up the leagues.

yeah, that would be a good starting point.

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Hello, Rosler. Update: After being promoted 3 times in a Row with Rimini (started in Italy C2), I got to Serie A with a media prediction of 20th.

I am in December, currently 5th, I am very happy but I trust your work and will make the switch during the New Year's break.

My only fear with v2 is that you kept 'retain possession' in it. My huge success with S&S, with both Flamengo and Rimini, was based on a 'without retain possession' customization of mine. I'll give it another shot, though, so I can give proper feedback after the season ends.

I will also most likely create another customized version of S&S, with counter+direct passing, for when I face huge monsters who will have higher possession no matter what. I will also let you know how that goes as well.

Concluded my 1st season in Serie A. Ended in 3rd, getting the last CL spot. Amazing result overall.

Got to the Italian Cup final, losing to Juventus 2-0 (1 own goal, 1 post-corner box scrum). Juventus won ALL Serie A until this one in 16/17. Tough guys to beat.

However, I still get the 'feeling' that v1 worked better for me than v2. Conceding too much and a lot of inconsistency. Luckily, the other teams were inconsistent as well.

Once the tactics got from 90 to 100% fluid, I observed more solidity so, for now, my next season will keep with v2 untouched so I can try and have a better understanding and conclusions to provide solid feedback.

As I had a Media Prediction of 20th, I employed S&Sv2 95% of the times. When I got the lead, I switched to my 'counter' version to retain the lead, which worked most of the times. When I suffered a goal and continued being pressured, I switched to my 'counter' version to attempt to score on long balls. This works eventually. When suffered a goal and the other team 'pulled the handbrake', I went on with Rainmaker, which rarely helped me breaking their sitting back.

Next season I will try the SS away, RMK home model, for a more solid feedback. Still thinking if I'll have the guts to start a match with RMK. :p

Final result was great so nothing really bad to 'complain', just minor things tingling in my head.

Other comments:

- Got job offers from Milan and Inter...to hell with them!! ;)

- My CF (Kelvin) was top scorer in the league. My F9 (Gianmario Comi) got an award of Media's Best Player (or something like that).

- Most assists came from the strikers themselves, serving each other frequently.

- Rimini was the best attack in the league (73 goals), but 9th in Conceded goals (49) :(

- Of the 49 goals conceded: Corners 15, IFK 5 and DFK 1. I scored 15-6-4, which makes it quite proportional.

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Thats the opposite of everybody else's experience. Maybe S&S is a better tactic until your squad gels.

Well a painful half season ending with a sacking. 8 wins and 9 losses, 24 points, mid table. Started off horribly on the wrong side of some 5-1 thumpings, then went on a tear winning 4 in a row, then back to inconsistency and losing. Used S&S exclusively, but conceded 4 and 5 goals on multiple occasions, which can't be good. My attackers were great, especially the F9 who bagged a bunch of goals and helped out the CF. Midfield was kind of mediocre, the center mids seem too bunched up and often just exchange short passes and lose the ball, although they also play nice through balls. Real problem was on defense side, where the fullbacks were all terrible, never really got to the byline to cross the ball, and lacked the tackling skills to handle the opponent attacking midfielders. Often opposition would just cruise by my fullbacks, cut into the box, and play a simple cross for an easy goal. The whole back 4 seems exposed without enough pace to keep up with opponent strikers and forward mids. All in all I think the tactic is decent, when it works you play like barcelona, but definitely a lot of inconsistency and defensive bungling.

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Playing in the final of the johnstones paint trophy with Silk & Steel and my false nine had 5 goals.

In the first half.

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Playing in the final of the johnstones paint trophy with Silk & Steel and my false nine had 5 goals.

In the first half.

Nice. Did the game finish 5-0? Thats what normally happens for me. Dominate a half like that and then nothing second half.

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Nice. Did the game finish 5-0? Thats what normally happens for me. Dominate a half like that and then nothing second half.

I have seen that a lot too.

I think that the players just stop playing as they think that the game is over.

On such matches, it seems that no matter what you say on half time, the players just don't care about the match anymore. Then again, who can blame them, if they are already leading very comfortably after first half.

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I have seen that a lot too.

I think that the players just stop playing as they think that the game is over.

On such matches, it seems that no matter what you say on half time, the players just don't care about the match anymore. Then again, who can blame them, if they are already leading very comfortably after first half.

I am finding team talks in general a bit of a nightmare since 14.2. It seems very difficult to get 2 consistent halves of performance. Praising the first half seems to relax them too much the 2nd and vice-versa. I know getting a "green" reaction is considered good, but I find that that coupled with the "seems happy/relaxed" reaction makes them switch off and happens quite often. I have taken a similar approach to those mentioned in this thread for some time now, and it seemed to work quite effectively pre 14.2.

The other thing that seems to have stopped working since 14.2 is team meetings - I rarely use them now, but when I have tried, I make the initial comment, it brings up the players that want to say something, I ask them to address the room, and they always then say "I have nothing to say". Anybody else found this?

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I just won the Skrill North after 37 games only losing 1 game so far. Predominately used silk & steel only changing over to rainmaker. Also just got offered a new contract which i was starting to worry about not getting so that has finally come to the table.

Time to finish the season with a good run before looking into some new talent for next season

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Update on the Liverpool test.

Its a joke.

The Norwich squad is stronger than the Liverpool squad.

Only had Suarez for 3 games as he has a long ban and then got injured on international duty for 3 months. In his 3 games his average rating was 6.13 0 goals, 0 assists.

The name of the game with Liverpool is not getting sacked. That equals success.

Been near to that. Thought i'd turned the corner after the Southampton result but then lost at home to West Ham! Next up were Chelsea and Man City.... thought I was doomed but managed to win them both which has bought me time.

Managing Liverpool is an extremely unpleasant experience in season 1, the squad is well underrated. Yet its a good challenge and gives an interesting long term rebuilding challenge........ if you can survive.

yr0x.png

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I've found the opposite with S&S V2. My anchorman is often my highest ranked player. He frequently wins the ball back and then starts the attack. I'm playing with Wolves and picked up Franco Zuculini on a free. The other guys that always play big are my FBs. Even though they both rate as 2.5 star players, their average game ratings are over 7.5. One is currently 3rd highest in the league. Even my backup FBs who are 2 star players do well.

Hmmm... interesting. Maybe it's just the players who I'm using in that position then. I agree with your comments about the fullbacks however. I get a lot of assists out of those guys.

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The other thing that seems to have stopped working since 14.2 is team meetings - I rarely use them now, but when I have tried, I make the initial comment, it brings up the players that want to say something, I ask them to address the room, and they always then say "I have nothing to say". Anybody else found this?

Team meetings are useless at the moment.

Earlier you could get really big reactions (both positive and negative) with team meetings, but currently you are lucky if 1 or 2 players react at all.

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Final outcome of my first season in Serie A using this set:

Media Prediction - 16th

Final League Position - 1st (by 11pts)

Record - 83pts, W24, D11,L1 (also lost one cup game v Juve)

My approach between the 2 tactics was more gut feel - Played rainmaker at home unless it was against what i deemed a "top 5" side. Away from home it was Rainmaker still against bottom half teams, S&S against top half teams. Interestingly, my away record was by far what won me the league. I gained 14pts more away from home than any other team in the league.

To give you an idea of the type of players i did this with:

GK - Antonio Mirante - At the club when i arrived, but of a journeyman and not a top keeper at all but was solid

LB - Nicolai Boilesen - Loaned in from Ajax where he was unwanted, did a great job but again hardly a world beater

CD - Matteo Darmian - Also at the club when i arrived, a solid looking CB who isnt fancy and has spent most of his career in low to mid table clubs

CD - Daniele Rugani / Vasco Regini - Rugani was brought in as a top prospect who is also first team ready, Regini came in from Empoli in Jan to rotate with him

RB - Steffen Hagen - 30yr old Norwiegan with only 2 caps, signed cheap from Odd as he had good key stats. Hardly a stellar career but did the job

DM - Ignacio Camacho - Was on the transfer list at Malaga and very good anchor man.

MCL - Lorenzo Cristeg - Former ace prospect was here when i arrived. Perhaps no longer an elite prospect but a very good player for Serie A

MC - Josue - Found this gem in Porto B team, with a mediocre portugese career behind him. Lovely technical and mental stats and i got him into the national side.

MCR - Jem Karacan - Signed from West Brom for £5million and a great type for B2B - lots of energy and work rate and all round capable

F9 - Various/ Giovanni Moreno - first half of season i had Aarron hunt Saponara rotating. Moreno picked up in Jan and was good in this role with his great tech stats

CF - Alberto Cerri - One of the top prospects in the country and already nicely developed.

So hardly world beaters as individuals it has to be said. My back 4 all performed well, the Fullbacks in particular got very good average ratings and 12 assists between them. THe midfield was solid, Karacan chipped in 10 assists, Josue was a stand out with 11 assists and 8 goals from his CM(a) role. Up front, i did get 21 goals from the F9 slot (split between different players in there) and Cerri gave me another 19.

I have screenshots of the final league table and of various other things if anyone wants them, or if Mr Rosler wants them for his OP's

Decided to make this a travelling career, so after my glorious league win im off to Wolfsburg in Germany to try and add a german title, which will be massively tough against Bayern and Dortmund. Taking the same tactics and approach with me :)

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Team meetings are useless at the moment.

Earlier you could get really big reactions (both positive and negative) with team meetings, but currently you are lucky if 1 or 2 players react at all.

You say that, but off the back of my three frustrating losses I mentioned earlier, I held a team meeting - took a calm approach, told the squad things hadn't been going too badly, but I knew they could do better - result: 23 players reacted badly. Captain shows as having something to say, ask him to address the room and the response - "I have nothing to say". It's crazy.

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So close, can i do it :D Full update when the season has finished.

nbdr.png

Wow, really low points total for leaders, not even averaging 2 points per game. Everyone must be beating everyone.

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Wow, really low points total for leaders

Thats it, spoil my good mood :D. I know though right, 10 losses and ive just gone top with Liverpool to play in the final game. Second at worse as Liverpool just drew. Can you see Man Utd and Arsenal> What have they done to my beloved United haha Im coning to save you boys :D

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City just lost to Fulham, Beat Liverpool and i win the title!

Well done mate!

And I've even got Liverpool in form ! (for now).

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Just signed George Elokobi for our debut Championship season... going to play him at centre-back I think! Still has good stats for a full back, though. That reminds me I need to find a good left back...

This is the first season I've started paying transfer fees, but nothing huge. I've got Steven Davis and Grant Leadbitter as BBMs, and waiting on a work permit for Kagisho Dikgacoi to play in the middle. Signed a striker on loan from Chelsea (parent club) and I have Simonas Stankevicius as my False 9 (from Leicester, great attributes - Finishing 14, Composure 14, Flair 16).

Fairly positive about the season ahead!

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So its finally here, Im now the proud manager of a premiership winning team. True the points total wasn't the highest but all that counts is the medals right.

A look at the table then.......

wqg7.png

As you can see, the big 6 are not at their best but im not complaining. Im even hunting the Man Utd job but i suspect it wont happen.

The tactic i went for was the SILK & STEEL version. I very, very rarely needed to change to Rainmaker. I used it as a last throw of the dice to pull a goal back., it din't always work!

Personally i found Silk & Steel worked very well in any situation. I know i lost 10 games but i will get to those later.

So my starting 11......

p1z3.png

Kolorov was a massive coo for me. Shaw played ok and his development came on strong but when i brought in Kolorov as cover he soon forced his way into the starting 11. It took me awhile to find a working partnership up front but after reading posts about using AM i went with Ramirez. He started 18 times in the F9 role and scored 6 goal with 5 assists, not great but the best stats of any player i played there (Rodriguez, Osvaldo)

Quick look back at my fixtures and after a dodgy start i settled in very well.

w191.png

01qw.png

Apart from the games involving the top 4 i had a good shout for unfairness in 3 of the results....i say unfairness but i mean i was upset with the results and cried like a baby of foul play :)

psev.png

tci.png

g1yd.png

The rest of the defeats we played crap and deserved nothing!

He's my transfers

ezwv.png

Al-in-all im very happy with the tactic and the football we play. The F9 role is the most important in my save as if he plays wel we win. Second to that is th CF and CM. The rest play around them.

Great tactic and i can't wait for the second season.

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From this thread:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/384023-Conceding-freak-goals...-Fed-up.

An insteresting comment from SI:

Yeah ideally raise them in the Bugs Forum so our team can take a look. However I must say that we're working on match engine code which has changed a lot since the last 'public' match engine update. Thanks.

So, it seems that ME will be getting some serious changes. Let's see how it will affect these tactics and others too.

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U Rosler would you please be able to upload a screenie of your training pie chart for me please?

Will do later :thup:

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Wow I'm going to give these a try as I've yet to win the CL having tried with Real Madrid and Man city but at least both leagues have been won.

Juventus next then to at least get Serie A and maybe the CL...

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So its finally here, Im now the proud manager of a premiership winning team. True the points total wasn't the highest but all that counts is the medals right.

A look at the table then.......

wqg7.png

As you can see, the big 6 are not at their best but im not complaining. Im even hunting the Man Utd job but i suspect it wont happen.

The tactic i went for was the SILK & STEEL version. I very, very rarely needed to change to Rainmaker. I used it as a last throw of the dice to pull a goal back., it din't always work!

Personally i found Silk & Steel worked very well in any situation. I know i lost 10 games but i will get to those later.

So my starting 11......

p1z3.png

Kolorov was a massive coo for me. Shaw played ok and his development came on strong but when i brought in Kolorov as cover he soon forced his way into the starting 11. It took me awhile to find a working partnership up front but after reading posts about using AM i went with Ramirez. He started 18 times in the F9 role and scored 6 goal with 5 assists, not great but the best stats of any player i played there (Rodriguez, Osvaldo)

Quick look back at my fixtures and after a dodgy start i settled in very well.

w191.png

01qw.png

Apart from the games involving the top 4 i had a good shout for unfairness in 3 of the results....i say unfairness but i mean i was upset with the results and cried like a baby of foul play :)

psev.png

tci.png

g1yd.png

The rest of the defeats we played crap and deserved nothing!

He's my transfers

ezwv.png

Al-in-all im very happy with the tactic and the football we play. The F9 role is the most important in my save as if he plays wel we win. Second to that is th CF and CM. The rest play around them.

Great tactic and i can't wait for the second season.

Mighty impressive, be prepared for teams 'parking the bus', especially at home.

You gonna have to bring out the Rainmaker :lol:

Interestingly someone on FM base finished 2nd in the EPL with Newcastle on 78 points 1st season using RAINMAKER exclusively... so they can both work.

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Mr Rosler

Firstly thank you for creating such amazing tactics.

I have a question in terms of team recruitment. You have highlighted the key attributes for each role which is great but if I am looking for towards the future what sort of values should I be looking at for a youth player? I know it is 15+ for a first team player in the Premiership etc so how much lower can I go for a 17 year old hoping that he will develop through training etc?

Thanks in advance for your reply & keep up the great work.

Regards

Jonathan

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Bring 'em on i say. The sooner the better.

I completely agree, too many "funny" things happening with current me :D

Would even want to try creating own tactics at some point, but i think i'll wait at least for the next patch. Your tactics are working amazingly well with current ME, don't think i could get even near as good. Would want to have a tactic which includes wingers also, but like said, won't try before update at least.

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The 'worm has turned' in the Liverpool save.

Dont think i'll catch Man U but on track for Champions League.

Considering I was 1 game from sack and had players showing as 'uninterested' in games i'm pretty happy.

5gwb.png

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Mr Rosler

Firstly thank you for creating such amazing tactics.

I have a question in terms of team recruitment. You have highlighted the key attributes for each role which is great but if I am looking for towards the future what sort of values should I be looking at for a youth player? I know it is 15+ for a first team player in the Premiership etc so how much lower can I go for a 17 year old hoping that he will develop through training etc?

Thanks in advance for your reply & keep up the great work.

Regards

Jonathan

Thanks for your interest.

I'm really not the best person to ask as I can never be bothered to develop players preferring to sign the 'finished article' instead.

You could just use 'star ratings' and description i.e 'could be leading star' etc.

Or someone who knows better could jump in??

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The 'worm has turned' in the Liverpool save.

Dont think i'll catch Man U but on track for Champions League.

Considering I was 1 game from sack and had players showing as 'uninterested' in games i'm pretty happy.

5gwb.png

I'll have what ever tactics WBA are using :D

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Mr Rosler

Firstly thank you for creating such amazing tactics.

I have a question in terms of team recruitment. You have highlighted the key attributes for each role which is great but if I am looking for towards the future what sort of values should I be looking at for a youth player? I know it is 15+ for a first team player in the Premiership etc so how much lower can I go for a 17 year old hoping that he will develop through training etc?

Thanks in advance for your reply & keep up the great work.

Regards

Jonathan

This is what i do when trying to develop a youth player.

1. He must be good enough to get at least some match time in senior squad.

2. I bring him to senior squad and setup individual training first to the role i want him to play, individual training focus is on "Heavy" (that's what i have for all senior squad players).

3. Play him in senior squad as much as possible.

For example, in my current save i have a regen i signed on first season, when we were in Skrill North. At that time his potential was that he could become good Skybet League 2 midfielder.

However, he has been a first team regular in Skrill North and Skrill Premier, so now as we are starting Skybet League 2 season, his current ability is "good for Skybet League 2" and potential is "decent for Premiership".

So, for me the key with youth development is, that the brightest stars get to play in first team.

edit:

Tutoring is also important. If your squad has older players with good attributes, PPM's or especially good personality (professional, resolute etc), have them tutor the young players. The personality plays a big part in how the player develops. For example the regen i mentioned, has professional personality, that helps a lot both in training and in the pitch.

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Mr Rosler, Currently in January 2015 and in 5th position. Recent results a bit below par but all in all pretty good. Brought in four players, of which only two really improved the team, Corluka and Bocchetti, both defenders.

Question. Player gets booked in match. Can I ask him to ease off tackles in his instructions or would that have an adverse effect on the tactics as a whole? I don't like to alter them in any way in case I mess things up.

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Mr Rosler, Currently in January 2015 and in 5th position. Recent results a bit below par but all in all pretty good. Brought in four players, of which only two really improved the team, Corluka and Bocchetti, both defenders.

Question. Player gets booked in match. Can I ask him to ease off tackles in his instructions or would that have an adverse effect on the tactics as a whole? I don't like to alter them in any way in case I mess things up.

Early yellow cards worry me but to be fair most of the time the player had enough sense to 'back off' and reds are pretty rare.

Don't think it would make a lot of difference if you asked those on yellows to ease off.

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Interestingly someone on FM base finished 2nd in the EPL with Newcastle on 78 points 1st season using RAINMAKER exclusively... so they can both work.

I never needed to use if as Silk & Steel did the job for me, im not apposed to using it. Like you said, next season will be different.

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Early yellow cards worry me but to be fair most of the time the player had enough sense to 'back off' and reds are pretty rare.

Don't think it would make a lot of difference if you asked those on yellows to ease off.

If player body language is "looking ill-diciplined" and he has already one yellow card, i use the "you need to calm down and avoid another booking" option. That often calms the player and body language changes to something else.

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I've had like 5 red cards in this season. I fine people 2 weeks and I have absolutely no warning in terms of the motivation window. My team has been motivated or calm every time. They're straight reds too, for the two-legged diving foul.

Really weird.

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Mr Rosler, how did the retraining of Coutinho and Sturridge go?

Coutinho took to the central midfield role well. Sturridge was unable to 'unlearn' long shots. If I was continuing the save beyond 1 season i would be forced to get rid of him. which would be a shame. He's done ok.

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Mr Rosler, Thanks for that. out of interest, Sold Reina and board thought it a bad bit of business. Sold Suarez and not a peep! Brought in Facundo Ferreyra from Shakhtar to replace him, fans pleased at getting such a good striker, he's twenty three. No comment from fans about the leaving of Suarez. Still really just fiddling about until the January update/patch. Now February 2015, second in the league behind Chelski, who are fourteen points ahead of me. They've just won about twelve matches consecutively.

Finding that Sturridge goes on a run of goalscoring for about four or five games then dries up. I've found that by dropping him for a few games does wonders and he gets going again. Like yourself, I'm thinking about his future at the end of the season. Suarez is at Man. City. He has played in six matches , not scored and has not got one rating above 6.9. Funny that.

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Bit of a ropey start for me in Germany with this set. Trained it in so its almost fluid by season start, but have a mare defensively.

Played 5 in the league and only have 7 pts. Most worryingly, in my last 4 games (3 in league, on in europe) we have leaked a frightening 15 goals.

I expected a slowish start as i brought in a lot of new players, but interestingly i didnt change any of the back 4, the keeper or the anchorman - those are all existing Wolfsburg players so they shouldnt be suffering as much. Going to review my back 4 and make sure they are lined up to the key attributes, and try and ride out the rough patch!

We did beat Dortmund 4 v 3 at home which gives me some hope, we just need stability and consistency now!

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Coutinho took to the central midfield role well. Sturridge was unable to 'unlearn' long shots. If I was continuing the save beyond 1 season i would be forced to get rid of him. which would be a shame. He's done ok.

Yeah, not heard of anyone managing to get sturridge to unlearn that atrocious ppm. SI really need to remove it for him or at the very least make it possible to unlearn it. Even toning it down would make a noticeable difference. I mean, real world if a player kept doing that, you'd give him a bollocking if he kept wasting opportunities like Sturridge does in-game.

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Results of my Liverpool 'test' are in.

As usual season 1 no transfers.

After nearly getting sacked early on things went very well and we had an outside chance to win the league going into the last game of the season although we needed both Chelsea and Man U to slip up which was never really gonna happen.

3vfh.png

Interestingly very low scoring season, no one got to a 2 goal a game average. Man U won the league scoring only 65 goals, Arsenal came 4th scoring only 55 goals?? So much for the Premier League being exciting.

Sturridge was outstanding in the end easily the divisions highest scorer but no competition. On the back of that I would have to reverse my earlier statement and definately keep him. 27 goals in 38 league games.

m9kb.png

*** Note - I had a slow start and was nearly sacked in October/November, I know a few would have been on here shouting 'the tactic doesn't work!'. Give it time and you will put good runs of results togther ****

Used Rainmaker home and Silk & Steel away changing mid game as per my original advice.

To be fair, i've probably seen enough of 14.2.2 and its obvious limitations and cant see myself playing much until 14.3 comes out. i will of course be all over my threads and the forum :brock:

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Yeah, not heard of anyone managing to get sturridge to unlearn that atrocious ppm. SI really need to remove it for him or at the very least make it possible to unlearn it. Even toning it down would make a noticeable difference. I mean, real world if a player kept doing that, you'd give him a bollocking if he kept wasting opportunities like Sturridge does in-game.

Hope the new ME sorts this out. Dont mind him taking the odd pot shot as long as he scores his fair share.

Suarez was useless by the way, got injured after his early season ban, didn't see him until January played him in 20 consecutive league games scored 6 goals and 5 assists. poor return for a supposedly world class player.

Gerrard was even worse, 29 games, 1 goal, 4 assists and an average rating of 6.78 which was the lowest in the whole squad apart from 2 subs.

I assume SI is still run by the Everton Mafia??? :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

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[quote name=

I assume SI is still run by the Everton Mafia??? :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:[/quote]

PaulC is a proud blue

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