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FM14 - Manchester United 98/99 Treble Winning 4-4-2


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After grimacing over United’s Capital One Cup exit against Sunderland, I had to turn to something positive to cheer myself up and eventually decided to switch on my laptop and write something for this forum. As shown in the title, I have attempted to recreate United’s 98/99 treble winning 4-4-2 (yes, these memories do cheer me up) on FM14 in my save. If you are a tad curious about my save, you can visit my career thread at http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/376574-Becks-is-back! for more details. So, here we go…

Background

In the 1998/1999 season, Alex Ferguson achieved the remarkable Treble with United playing the good old 4-4-2. That was the season which drew me to football and I was mesmerized by the free-flowing, attacking and at times gung-ho football on show. The team went with the ‘if we score more than you, we win’ attitude and had contributed to a number of great football matches. (the 3-3s against Barcelona, the champions league semi-final ties against Juventus etc.) If you want to re-live this remarkable season, you can watch the season review on youtube from here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex-omhcs0g4

Team Formation

TeamFormation_zpsee310cc4.jpg

This was arguably Ferguson’s strongest 11 in that season and the midfield four was said to be his strongest ever midfield quartet. Beckham (my favourite player of all time :D) was the wide midfielder (support) on the right flank and often dropped deep to allow full-back (attack) Neville to overlap. On the opposite flank, winger (attack) Giggs played further up the field with full-back (support) Irwin behind him. Keane and Scholes were dynamic, box to box central midfielders who were able to defend and support the attack when required. However, as the modern game evolves, more teams play with AMCs and to reduce the space they can operate in, I went with the midfield combination of DLP-d and BWM-s in my save. The front two were telepathic and their movements were great to watch at times. Both were complete forwards who did everything upfront, and often one drops deep while the other stretches the opposition’s defense further up the field.

Team Instructions

Fluid Fluidity – The team played flowing soccer with players granted creative freedom.

Attacking Mentality – The team was straight in the opponents’ faces and always tried to win possession high up the field. Ferguson also employed a fast tempo and direct style (Beckham often launches accurate balls from deep) and focused heavily on getting players forward and into space.

Pass into Space – With players like Becks and Scholesy, the team had players who often attempted to pick out runs behind the opposition’s defense.

Play Wider – The team took advantage of the width of the pitches, with Beckham and Giggs hugging the touchlines and the front two stretching the opposition’s defense.

Roam from Positions – Ferguson relied on the players to provide cover for each other when they start to interchange and confuse the opponents with great movements.

Hassle Opponents – The team always looked to win the ball back quickly, even if it meant ditching their starting positions.

Use Tighter Marking – As mentioned, the players were often straight in the opponents’ faces and looked to win the ball back as early as possible.

Higher Tempo – United relied on high tempo football to wear their opponents out and capitalize on the holes in their defense.

Work Ball into Box – With the exception of Scholes, the team didn’t shoot much from range and often relied on crosses/through passes to find the back of the net.

Weakness

Every tactic has its strengths and weaknesses and it’s vital to understand where your tactic is lacking so that you can make necessary tweaks to lessen the impact. I have found out from my save that we concede most of our goals in two ways.

1) Through ball behind our defense

As we play high up the pitch, the team is always prone to that lofted through ball behind our defense and pacey strikers are often able to capitalize on this.

2) Taking advantage of the hole

As we play with a midfield duo with no DMCs, there is often space in front of our center-backs for AMCs to capitalize on.

76b02c89-ad1b-4d32-bc50-ab1b1058dd17_zps2f3ff579.jpg

As shown in the screenshot above, Chelsea won possession in their own half and Strootman played the ball towards Mata. Our central midfielders were both caught relatively high up the pitch and there were huge amounts of space in front of our back four for the Chelsea players to play with.

70c94fa1-7064-4a47-b473-192dc9f29933_zpse68c8edb.jpg

Mata then played the ball first time to Benzema, who had taken up the empty space intelligently. As shown, my DLP-d realized danger and was seen sprinting back towards the space.

c018a4fc-5e70-40d2-bd39-201ef6157b35_zps38f5667c.jpg

Sensing that my DLP-d would not make it back in time, my center-back (circled) attempted to close Benzema down. He too did not close down in time and that left HUGE gap in defense. The French striker delivered a perfect through ball for the on-rushing Oscar (AMC), who had made a run behind our defense.

weak4_zps01c7dcb9.jpg

Inevitably and quite brilliantly, the Brazilian chipped my keeper to score a great goal on the break.

The above example has illustrated the weaknesses of my tactic well and most of our goals were conceded in those manners. I could have made tweaks to reduce closing down/pull my d-line back a little but that would change my game plan altogether and my attacking threats will be reduced. Having weighed the pros and cons, I decided to live with them.

Strengths

Assist Location

Assists_zpsb6cd0a4a.jpg

On the plus side, the team has lots of options in attack. As shown in the screenshot above, the assist locations were fairly even. Playing a rather direct game, we were able to score goals from passes within our half. The two strikers up top were able to combine and craft out chances. Most importantly, like how the treble winning side benefited from Beckham’s crosses, huge amount of goals were scored from wing play.

1ae9c9c7-e89b-4f01-8f61-0fbc4af565ef_zps0232a676.jpg

As shown in the good old 2D map, when my DLP-d (Fellaini) is on the ball, there are plenty of options in front of him. On this occasion, he chose the hardest option and sent a cross field ball towards the left flank.

9975a4c7-44b8-487f-9b0c-3dd14bd18571_zpsedfa7d3f.jpg

My left-back Luke Shaw got to the ball and sent a brilliant cross towards the far post, where my right winger Zaha was waiting. He eventually scored with a brilliantly timed header. Like how the treble winning United side attack, there are always bodies in the box waiting for crosses and on this occasion, there were four (the two strikers, the right-winger and the left winger) looking to get on the end of Shaw’s cross. Sometimes, the BWM-s is found in the box as well.

Feedback would be welcome.

Thanks!

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I'm not sure about the philosophy for a start, but I'd have to think about that a bit more.

Some of your roles are out though imo. Scholes is more of an advanced playmaker, Keane a BWM (d) or CM (d) Andy Cole is most definitely a poacher. Not to sure about Yorke, but Deeplying Forward (a) seems close.

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I'm not sure about the philosophy for a start, but I'd have to think about that a bit more.

Some of your roles are out though imo. Scholes is more of an advanced playmaker, Keane a BWM (d) or CM (d) Andy Cole is most definitely a poacher. Not to sure about Yorke, but Deeplying Forward (a) seems close.

Thank you for your opinions but I do have my reasons for making these choices:

1. Fluid Philosophy: I chose Fluid because there aren't any specialist roles in the team. I watched most of the games that season and the players do not simply adhere to any specific roles. For instance, Roy Keane did not just stick to ball winning. He got on the ball like a deep lying playmaker, spread the ball wide when he had the chance to, and even arrived late in the penalty box at times. Similarly, Scholes did not merely conduct play as an advance playmaker that season. He grew into a deep-lying playmaker in the latter stages of his career, but in that season no, he wasn't the playmaker. He was always arriving late in the penalty area to score goals (how is that an advance playmaker?) and he was even found defending back in his own area at times. However, as mentioned earlier, I tweaked the roles of the central midfielders due to the requirements of the game. For a 4-4-2 to work, a DLP-d is vital and hence I decided to use the combination DLP-d + BWM-s for my save and it is not representative of the treble winning team.

2. I am not sure if you watched United that season as much as I did. (Perhaps you could watch the youtube link I provided in my opening post) Andy Cole is definitely not a poacher. He did drop deep and link up play like a deep lying forward, work the channels like an advance forward and his combination play with Yorke that season was immense. A poacher concentrates solely on goal scoring and he definitely did not play like one that season. Yorke was the same and they often took turns to drop deep. These reasons explain my choices for their roles.

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The thing is with FM you sometimes have to choose a role that isn't what you'd class the player as in real life due to how the role is actually implemented into FM and what it offers. For example if you was creating Man City's tactic then for Toure most would choose a box to box because that's what he is in real life, however in FM terms and with all the settings a Regista actually would be the more suited role and mimics his play a lot closer than a box to box does in terms of FM.

Great thread this btw I will be following it, I like it when people attempt classic formations :)

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I like it when people attempt classic formations :)

This makes me feel old :( I remember using a novel 4-5-1/4-3-3 on CM2 before Sam Allardyce and Jose Mourinho made it a popular setup.

With regards to the OP, it looks well presented and thought out. Could possibly have used a screenshot of the tactics screen but that's me being picky :lol:

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I saw a lot of United, when I wasn't watching Walsall (was one of the best seasons in our history too that year) I don't really like Man United, well they disgust me actually (as do all Premier League parasites)but that's another point all together :-) I still appreciate good football.

With regards to Andy Cole, I guess you are right to an extent, his link up play did improve with his move to Man United, he was almost certainly just a poacher at Newcastle, and fed off the excellent Peter Beardsley. I would say he was still the most advanced of the two though, and played on the shoulder of the last man a lot. As Cleon pointed out, it's not always a case of like for like from real life to FM. I love the idea, and how you have thought it out. It was a great team indeed, I hope you have much success with it. Maybe send David Moyes an email, point him in the right direction.

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Much as it gauls me, I always did admire Fergie's "I've got 3 forwards on and I'm gonna send on another - so how do you like them apples??" kind of attitude. Another thing that I believe made the likes of him & Paisley such great managers was that it was never for them about the short or long (direct) ball, but the "right" ball and as such he wasn't afraid to adjust his tactics as necessary to deal with specific opponents. So.... I was wondering whether you have any adaptations of the basic that reflect this?

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I remember watching most of this season but was also too young to think about the tactics as anything more than 442. Watching the video that was linked I noticed a few things. Giggs ran at the heart of the defence many times with either cole out on the left touch line or Irwin over lapping. Beckham obviously hit in crosses for fun that were either met by either the center forwards, left winger or sometimes the attacking midfielder (at the neer post) York was often deeper than cole and was the right side of the two forwards. Keane was often the deepest midfielder, sitting in front of the two center backs, only getting into the box if a real opening presented itself. Scholes pops up mainly in the right side of the box indicating he started on that side linking up with the deeper Yorke with Beckham in support, the left sees cole furthest forward, to link up with Yorke in the middle( many one twos) or drift wide to let giggs cut in at the space, Irwin is constantly overlapping, Keane covers his runs. The right back offers the overlap but much later in the build up than the left back, to creat space for Beckham to cross from deep. I'd go with a

FBs CBd CBd CWB

WMs BBM DLPd Wa

DFL/CFs AFa

I'd consider putting cuts in side for giggs, almost mimic an inside forwards role but in the left midfield, if cole drifts wide he attacks the space, if he doesn't he goes outside. Beckham maybe sit narrower, he doesn't hug the touch line, that could be given to the right full back.

I think the fluid will sit well with the two forwards and 3 midfielders doing most of the attacking with the defence and Keane holding more, although a balanced philosophy could see the left back on attack get far forward covered by a defensive left sided center mid, my only worry is the Keane role wouldn't burst into the box at all with that setting.

As a whole the left makes the most forward runs that either go at goal or cross from the goal line, more direct, the left is slower and crosses or passes from deep to the left or arrives late in the box for their cut backs. The problem is do you make this happen through the roles in the starting eleven or the players you pick in those positions?

Sometimes Keane plays on the right of the midfield two when cruff plays, is this due to personnel or ferguson thinking the oppersition are more threatening on the left so he makes it more solid?

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Great thread, I loved watching United that season, it was some of the most awe inspiring football I have seen. If someone had made a movie about how it ended up people would have said it was far fetched!

With regards to the tactics, I agree the player roles are not exactly right but you would have to constantly change them to replicate exactly that team. Keane and Scholes constantly adapted to the game, Yorke and Cole were excellent and you couldn't set a role for any of them. That said Giggs and Becks were probably just winger attack and wide mid support without much deviation as they were utter class. Except the Final when Becks was in the middle for a while, hated that and was screaming at the TV when I seen the lineup!

How does the tactic work with the players you have? If Zaha is a wide mid support do his attributes work for that role? Not played as United yet...

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Great thread this btw I will be following it, I like it when people attempt classic formations :)

Thank you Cleon! Great to have you following this thread!

With regards to the OP, it looks well presented and thought out. Could possibly have used a screenshot of the tactics screen but that's me being picky :lol:

I did consider simply posting the tactics screen but eventually I decided on being different. Oh well... :D Thanks for your kind words!

Much as it gauls me, I always did admire Fergie's "I've got 3 forwards on and I'm gonna send on another - so how do you like them apples??" kind of attitude. Another thing that I believe made the likes of him & Paisley such great managers was that it was never for them about the short or long (direct) ball, but the "right" ball and as such he wasn't afraid to adjust his tactics as necessary to deal with specific opponents. So.... I was wondering whether you have any adaptations of the basic that reflect this?

That would be another tactic altogether, probably with the Overload mentality. I enjoyed watching him throw on 4 strikers too :D And you are absolutely right about the passing, if you have Beckham and Scholes who can deliver a ball right on the money, why not? :lol:

Regarding his adaptations to different opponents, we can actually make small tweaks using the Team Instructions/Mentality/Opposition Instructions. However in that particular season, Fergie basically set his team out in a basic 4-4-2 every game :)

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I remember watching most of this season but was also too young to think about the tactics as anything more than 442. Watching the video that was linked I noticed a few things. Giggs ran at the heart of the defence many times with either cole out on the left touch line or Irwin over lapping. Beckham obviously hit in crosses for fun that were either met by either the center forwards, left winger or sometimes the attacking midfielder (at the neer post) York was often deeper than cole and was the right side of the two forwards. Keane was often the deepest midfielder, sitting in front of the two center backs, only getting into the box if a real opening presented itself. Scholes pops up mainly in the right side of the box indicating he started on that side linking up with the deeper Yorke with Beckham in support, the left sees cole furthest forward, to link up with Yorke in the middle( many one twos) or drift wide to let giggs cut in at the space, Irwin is constantly overlapping, Keane covers his runs. The right back offers the overlap but much later in the build up than the left back, to creat space for Beckham to cross from deep. I'd go with a

FBs CBd CBd CWB

WMs BBM DLPd Wa

DFL/CFs AFa

I'd consider putting cuts in side for giggs, almost mimic an inside forwards role but in the left midfield, if cole drifts wide he attacks the space, if he doesn't he goes outside. Beckham maybe sit narrower, he doesn't hug the touch line, that could be given to the right full back.

I think the fluid will sit well with the two forwards and 3 midfielders doing most of the attacking with the defence and Keane holding more, although a balanced philosophy could see the left back on attack get far forward covered by a defensive left sided center mid, my only worry is the Keane role wouldn't burst into the box at all with that setting.

As a whole the left makes the most forward runs that either go at goal or cross from the goal line, more direct, the left is slower and crosses or passes from deep to the left or arrives late in the box for their cut backs. The problem is do you make this happen through the roles in the starting eleven or the players you pick in those positions?

Sometimes Keane plays on the right of the midfield two when cruff plays, is this due to personnel or ferguson thinking the oppersition are more threatening on the left so he makes it more solid?

Some great pointers there, your player roles are very similar to mine. It's pretty obvious that you watch them a lot that season :) As mentioned, Ferguson did tweak his base 4-4-2 tactic a little every game (based on his opponents) and we can do the same in the game :D

How does the tactic work with the players you have? If Zaha is a wide mid support do his attributes work for that role? Not played as United yet...

I retrained Zaha and made him accomplished at ML. After playing him there for a couple of seasons, I bought Tom Ince, who was sensational in the Giggs role for me despite his stats :) Cleverley was retrained to play in the Becks role and he wasn't too bad either ;)

Phil Jones was retrained into Keano's role and he grew to be the best player in my team!

You can check out my career thread here for more info http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/376574-Becks-is-back! :)

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He has said this many times but they would defend in two banks of four, always play two forwards. I think the forwards were always split in FM terms not playing side by side, one dropping into the hole one stretching the defence. I think in terms of formation it lines up 442 but the roles and duties change the shape in defence and attack

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People get to hung up on shapes and always try and put a label on them. The true reality is at times it was a 442, 4411, 4231 and 451 depending on the passage of play or what was happening. The lines ups you normally see both in FM and real life football is normally the defensive shape a team takes up. But in different phases of transition or depending on what the opposition was forcing them to be, it could quite easily be defined as any shape depending on the persons interpretation.

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I think the 4411 shape is to definite, personally I'd play two and use roles to make them split, one forward drops deeper and tracks back doing so. This just looks to me more like how they usually played than one positioned in the hole, if I was to play one in the am position I'd drop him down a strata, not have them both in the very centre position, it just doesn't look like the football I remember them playing. Again this is just my interpretation of what it looks like in game

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4-4-1-1, no? Still give you two banks of four.

I think 4-4-1-1 came about when he started to play Scholes behind Ruud, and subsequently Rooney in the hole. During the treble season it was very much two up top, with Cole/Yorke/Sheringham/Solskjaer interchanging and taking turns to drop deep.

People get to hung up on shapes and always try and put a label on them. The true reality is at times it was a 442, 4411, 4231 and 451 depending on the passage of play or what was happening. The lines ups you normally see both in FM and real life football is normally the defensive shape a team takes up. But in different phases of transition or depending on what the opposition was forcing them to be, it could quite easily be defined as any shape depending on the persons interpretation.

Well-said. In my opinion any team that defends with two banks of four and two up top is a 4-4-2 :)

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Excellent thread. Will be following with with interest. Not sure if you want to change it, but the philosophy under Ferguson was Rigid (or bands of two; Centre backs, full backs and MCs, Wingers, split role forwards).

I'd then give the side extra creative freedom.

Those would be the only two changes personally. That said it looks fantastic and I doubt you'd want to change a thing.

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I think 4-4-1-1 came about when he started to play Scholes behind Ruud, and subsequently Rooney in the hole. During the treble season it was very much two up top, with Cole/Yorke/Sheringham/Solskjaer interchanging and taking turns to drop deep.

Personally I don't agree. If you look back it was very rare that a combination of Yorke & Sheringham or Cole & Solskjae was used. It would be one of each, with Yorke or Sheringham playing behind either Cole or Solkjaer. In FM terms, for me it would be a Support Striker behind a Complete Forward. (Firmly believe people labelling Cole and Solskjaer as Poachers, and even Advanced Forwards, are doing them both a great diservice).

In central midfield I'd got for a Box-to-box (Keane) and a CM-Support (Scholes). Yes it'd leave you a bit open, but that's the kind of maverick style in which that team played.

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I think the shape of the forwards makes little difference. 4411 can go to 442 and vice-versa based on the roles. One would always drop mainly Yorke & Sheringham but the interchange would depend on the players and they would have the freedom to sort it out between them. I look at formation I see the base shape. So 442 I would go for. He never played 442 in the sense of 442 but 4411 based on the roles.

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Excellent thread. Will be following with with interest. Not sure if you want to change it, but the philosophy under Ferguson was Rigid (or bands of two; Centre backs, full backs and MCs, Wingers, split role forwards).

I'd then give the side extra creative freedom.

Those would be the only two changes personally. That said it looks fantastic and I doubt you'd want to change a thing.

Thank you for your kinds words! I selected the Fluid philosophy after reading wwfan's guide about roles specialization. Furthermore, I personally feel that Ferguson only played Rigid against the tougher oppositions.

Personally I don't agree. If you look back it was very rare that a combination of Yorke & Sheringham or Cole & Solskjae was used. It would be one of each, with Yorke or Sheringham playing behind either Cole or Solkjaer. In FM terms, for me it would be a Support Striker behind a Complete Forward. (Firmly believe people labelling Cole and Solskjaer as Poachers, and even Advanced Forwards, are doing them both a great diservice).

In central midfield I'd got for a Box-to-box (Keane) and a CM-Support (Scholes). Yes it'd leave you a bit open, but that's the kind of maverick style in which that team played.

I am glad to see someone finally agreeing with me that they were complete forwards! :D I agree with your central midfield roles too. In that season, most teams were playing that two in midfield so the damage wouldn't be as big as the present, where most teams played with 5 in midfield.

I think the shape of the forwards makes little difference. 4411 can go to 442 and vice-versa based on the roles. One would always drop mainly Yorke & Sheringham but the interchange would depend on the players and they would have the freedom to sort it out between them. I look at formation I see the base shape. So 442 I would go for. He never played 442 in the sense of 442 but 4411 based on the roles.

Well-explained and exactly why I chose a 4-4-2 base shape :)

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Yeah, I figured so, but want to see if I can get it to work with a smaller team. Yes, using that combination and a AP-a + CF-s on top.

Btw, did you have any luck with the counter-tactic you made for your Becks-save? (I actually signed David Beckham as my U18-manager. I reckon he can teach the yongster some good stuff ;-))

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Just wanted to say great work, really enjoyed this and will definitely be trying to mimic it in game. Despite being a Reading season ticket holder and holding no love for Manchester United got to give credit to Fergie - that guy had some big balls when it came to creating an attacking brand of football. City fans apart can think of no one who wouldn't have enjoyed watching that tremendous side.

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Just wanted to say great work, really enjoyed this and will definitely be trying to mimic it in game. Despite being a Reading season ticket holder and holding no love for Manchester United got to give credit to Fergie - that guy had some big balls when it came to creating an attacking brand of football. City fans apart can think of no one who wouldn't have enjoyed watching that tremendous side.

Liverpool fans ? :-)

Great thread though yes, interesting to see peoples different opinions on players roles etc etc. I still believe it was a 4-4-2 set up, despite what Fergie said, but as with many tactics obviously the shape changes during different phases of play during the game.

Something I didn't notice mentioned, although United definitely played an attacking brand of football, they scored a hell of a lot of goals on counter attacks, especially away from home. Giggs was brilliant for this running the length of the pitch sometimes with the ball.

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  • 1 month later...
Yeah, I figured so, but want to see if I can get it to work with a smaller team. Yes, using that combination and a AP-a + CF-s on top.

Btw, did you have any luck with the counter-tactic you made for your Becks-save? (I actually signed David Beckham as my U18-manager. I reckon he can teach the yongster some good stuff ;-))

I tried it with a smaller team and it didn't work. It would be hard to get Crystal Palace winning playing United's treble winning tactic. I had the counter tactic as plan B and never really got to use it because the main tactic was doing a job for me :) On you signing Becks, He certainly would teach some good stuff!

Just wanted to say great work, really enjoyed this and will definitely be trying to mimic it in game. Despite being a Reading season ticket holder and holding no love for Manchester United got to give credit to Fergie - that guy had some big balls when it came to creating an attacking brand of football. City fans apart can think of no one who wouldn't have enjoyed watching that tremendous side.

Thank you for your really kind words \o/ Looking at how we are struggling under Moyes, Ferguson was the sole reason for Man United's success and he is worth at least 20 league points.

Liverpool fans ? :-)

Great thread though yes, interesting to see peoples different opinions on players roles etc etc. I still believe it was a 4-4-2 set up, despite what Fergie said, but as with many tactics obviously the shape changes during different phases of play during the game.

Something I didn't notice mentioned, although United definitely played an attacking brand of football, they scored a hell of a lot of goals on counter attacks, especially away from home. Giggs was brilliant for this running the length of the pitch sometimes with the ball.

Yes, it is definitely a 4-4-2 set-up in my eyes as Ferguson almost always played with 2 up front that treble season. The team definitely counters on the attacking mentality in the game :)

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It was, in my opinion, labelled as a 4-4-2, although Sheringham or Yorke would play off, Cole or Solskjaer essentially making it a 4-4-1-1, it was still widely regarded as a 4-4-2 in basic shape. It was all about attacking football, breaking down the wings with Giggs, Beckham and Blomqvist providing the width/crosses for the strikers and the late-arriving Paul Scholes from the midfield, although Keane used to support the play, he anchored/drove the team from the middle of the pitch, allowing Scholes to get forward as much as he did.

Similar philosophies to a few years earlier with Giggs and Kanchelskis bombing down the flanks proving crosses, and Cantona would drop off to link up the play.

It wasn't really until Fergie signed Veron, that he truly started to change the shape of the team from a "4-4-2".

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has anyone found an effective way to plug the hole OP mentioned in the first post?

i rushed through half a season using the tactic and found that a large majority of my goals were conceded that way, even with my central defenders on cover and stopper instructions.

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It was, in my opinion, labelled as a 4-4-2, although Sheringham or Yorke would play off, Cole or Solskjaer essentially making it a 4-4-1-1, it was still widely regarded as a 4-4-2 in basic shape. It was all about attacking football, breaking down the wings with Giggs, Beckham and Blomqvist providing the width/crosses for the strikers and the late-arriving Paul Scholes from the midfield, although Keane used to support the play, he anchored/drove the team from the middle of the pitch, allowing Scholes to get forward as much as he did.

Similar philosophies to a few years earlier with Giggs and Kanchelskis bombing down the flanks proving crosses, and Cantona would drop off to link up the play.

It wasn't really until Fergie signed Veron, that he truly started to change the shape of the team from a "4-4-2".

agreed with every word you said :)

great thread, i love an old fashioned 4-4-2 always hard to get the mc partnership working though

thank you :D I love the good old 4-4-2 too! IMO it is hard to get the mc partnership working because most teams play with more than 2 in central midfield nowadays ):

has anyone found an effective way to plug the hole OP mentioned in the first post?

i rushed through half a season using the tactic and found that a large majority of my goals were conceded that way, even with my central defenders on cover and stopper instructions.

How did your results go?

There isn't any way to completely eliminate the problem. You need two really mobile MCs and two world class CBs to solve the problem. As mentioned, this tactic is only meant for teams with great players.

I wouldn't recommend a stopper/cover combination as it would create more holes when the stopper CB goes tearing about. I always left them with the defend duties.

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  • 5 months later...
Big bump here as I will try OPs formation in my Malaga save and will see how it goes. Have the players to play the CF roles with ease and have the team that CAN be great

Great! Do let me know the results :)

Interesting thread - how is everyone defining the Keane / Scholes partnership?

Keane was a box to box midfielder/ball-winner while Scholes was a box to box/CM-A but these will probably leave lots of gaps in the hole between the defense and midfield. A DLP-D or CM-D is definitely needed in a MC duo!

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  • 5 months later...

Great thread.

I'm a Forest fan but the United treble winning side is the greatest team I've watched in my lifetime. I decided at the weekend that I wanted to try and recreate the tactics Fergie used on FM15. So I started a new game as unemployed and eventually got the Bristol Rovers job in October, with them languishing midtable in the conference. The players in their squad are reasonably well suited for these tactics, although obviously it's a lot harder with players who have much less ability than this great United side.

Anyway I decided to give it a go and so far the results have been brilliant, I've played 8 games, won 7 and drawn 1, pushing the team right into the mix for promotion. My tactics aren't exactly where I want them to be yet, as I've had to adapt them a bit for the players at my disposal. However, at the moment I am using;

GK - D

Left full back - S

CB - D

CB - D

Right wing back - A

Left wing - A

BWM - D

AP - A (with player instruction - get forward more)

Right wide midfielder - S

DLF - S

Poacher - A

Base mentality - control, although varies depending on opponent & match situation.

TI's - Play direct, Whipped crosses, higher tempo.

So far my poacher has scored a hatful of goals (top scorer in the league) and my advanced playmaker has been successful scoring goals arriving late in the box.

Looking forward to seeing how this one develops!

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Beast thread. Maybe DLF-A and CF-S for the 2 strikers? They did similar things IIRC. Hardest role to perfect will be Scholes I think? James Ward-Prowse will make an amazing Beckham replacement in time. I'd get him straight away.

I'd certainly pick an attacking philosophy, balanced most probably to get Neville going forward more. Exploit the flanks and whipped crosses.

GK

FB-A CB-D CB-D FB-S

WM-S RP-S? CM-D WM-A

CF-S DLF-A

would be my take on it. Might give it a go, great team. As an Arsenal fan you have to admire the Man Utd 98-99 team, they were just unstoppable. Juggernauts.

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But Beckham didn't drift inside that much to be called a playmaker, he just opened the way to Neville go to the byline sometimes. And certainly he wasn't the first player the team looked when starting to build up play.

Cheers,

Bitner

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in all the time I have been playing the game(every year since its conception) I have never used a basic 4-4-2 I have always tried 4-2-3-1// 4-3-3// 5-3-2 or a diamond 4/4/2/

this has inspired me to give it a go this time around will also use an ex player as manager too, its between Robbo/Cantona/Becks

players I would like to bring in are all english and should be doable Clyne/Shawcross/Hughes/ward Prowse/Kane

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This makes me feel old :( I remember using a novel 4-5-1/4-3-3 on CM2 before Sam Allardyce and Jose Mourinho made it a popular setup.

With regards to the OP, it looks well presented and thought out. Could possibly have used a screenshot of the tactics screen but that's me being picky :lol:

I'll go one further, I had a 3-5-2 with Swansea (CM3) got them to the Prem. Van Gaal obviously followed my forum-story about it and Swansea obviously decided to use it as inspiration. ;)

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  • 2 weeks later...
Beast thread. Maybe DLF-A and CF-S for the 2 strikers? They did similar things IIRC. Hardest role to perfect will be Scholes I think? James Ward-Prowse will make an amazing Beckham replacement in time. I'd get him straight away.

I'd certainly pick an attacking philosophy, balanced most probably to get Neville going forward more. Exploit the flanks and whipped crosses.

GK

FB-A CB-D CB-D FB-S

WM-S RP-S? CM-D WM-A

CF-S DLF-A

would be my take on it. Might give it a go, great team. As an Arsenal fan you have to admire the Man Utd 98-99 team, they were just unstoppable. Juggernauts.

Wow didn't know there is still life in this thread! DLF-A and CF-S might be worth a try, but the 98-99 forwards worked the channels quite often, perhaps you can try AF-A for one of your strikers?

Think Becks was a WP (S) rather than WM. Giggsy was a W (a)
Becks was never a WP, he was an out an out crosser of the ball who tracked back = WM.

Wide playmaker cuts right across the middle of the field, it's certainly not his role tbh.

Maybe a DW (s) could also work w/ Get Further Forward??
Can't say, I've not used the DW role in FM. :)
I think Beckham was intercahnging roles between Wideplaymaker and Wide Midfielder.. When Gary overlaps he was cutting inside and was more of a creative outlet, when he didn't he was a playing wide for a great cross..
But Beckham didn't drift inside that much to be called a playmaker, he just opened the way to Neville go to the byline sometimes. And certainly he wasn't the first player the team looked when starting to build up play.

Cheers,

Bitner

From watch I watched, Becks definitely looked like a WM-S :) Beckham doesn't get involved in the passage of play enough to be a play maker, he is often the one playing the final passes/getting the shots in!

Looks a nice try. I'd go for Keane being a CM-D and Scholes an AP-A, with shoots from range ticked.

Cheers,

Bitner

Worth a try! But Keane got forward more than a CM-D in my opinion!

in all the time I have been playing the game(every year since its conception) I have never used a basic 4-4-2 I have always tried 4-2-3-1// 4-3-3// 5-3-2 or a diamond 4/4/2/

this has inspired me to give it a go this time around will also use an ex player as manager too, its between Robbo/Cantona/Becks

players I would like to bring in are all english and should be doable Clyne/Shawcross/Hughes/ward Prowse/Kane

Sounds like a good idea for a save! ;)

Love your tactic. United play the 'United way' with this tactic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67Wzgzauo_E

Cheers colinho! We could do with more of that in real life!

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With FM 15's options, to get the strike partnership going, it might be worth considering this,

DLF---------

---------SS

With the the swap positions option linked between them, that *might* get that Yorke/Cole thing going where they took turns attacking and supporting.

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With FM 15's options, to get the strike partnership going, it might be worth considering this,

DLF---------

---------SS

With the the swap positions option linked between them, that *might* get that Yorke/Cole thing going where they took turns attacking and supporting.

Could be worth giving a try! However I don't think this combination works the channels often enough as the treble winning side often play direct balls down the channels to start off attacks!

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