How many would restart.

[ljwjones]

I shall set the scene.

I manage Marseille in France. After years of punching in and around the top 3 without winning it this season is going to plan. Top of the league, semi finals of Champions league, final of league cup and still in French cup(can't remember what stage)

Its coming up to our first chance of silverware this season(not counting champions trophy which we won), the league cup final. But prior to that earlier in the week is the champions league 1/4 final 2nd leg, we lost the first leg 5-2 at the Etihad against City, mainly due to my keeper being injured so having a bad one in net, the second leg is a miracle and we win 4-0 so 6-5 on aggregate. 3 of our 4 goals in that match by ex United players. We are full of confidence going into the final.

In the final we are playing PSG our fierce rivals. It starts well with us being 1-0 up at half time. Second half the performance drops a bit and it is 1-1 FT so goes into extra time. In 1st half of extra time nothing of note happens and its still 1-1 at HT ET. In second half on 115 min we score, only for it to be ruled out for offside, the replay shows the striker was on the 6 yard box and the defender was on the goal line, bad decision referee. Then in the 120th min we score an og from a corner and lose the match.

On the screen afterwards it say about the referee "Didn't have the best game of his career" so I check his rating for the match 3.3.

I am not losing it like that and turned it off. Am wondering how many other people would.

[CityAndColour]

No chance - it's a stinker but if you reload and win it, it would feel very hollow. You may as well reboot every round to make sure you win it.

Besides, if you'd won in those circumstances you certainly wouldn't have switched off. So why can't you lose that way?

[Beestonite]

I agree with what he said ^^. Nail and head come to mind.

[milnerpoint]

Yeah if you re-load this game, you may as well re-load every single loss you have from this point forward, for me, it would completely ruin any accomplishment going forward.

[forameuss]

You're reloading because the referee had a poor rating?

These things happen - just grow a pair and move on.

[ljwjones]

You're reloading because the referee had a poor rating?

These things happen - just grow a pair and move on.

]

Grow a pair? Between the opening season and the one am in now (17/18) We have played and lost no fewer than 1 champions league final, 1 french cup final, 2 league cup finals and the finished 2nd in the league 3 times. I know how to lose.

I reloaded as it just seemed ridiculous for a referee to get a match rating of 3.3, players never get that low so how can a ref. The offside goal was never offside not in a million years.

[milnerpoint]

So what if the ref had a bad game? Your cheating the game, of course its up to you to ruin your achievements if you want, but i think its pretty petty to re-load.

[forameuss]

]

Grow a pair? Between the opening season and the one am in now (17/18) We have played and lost no fewer than 1 champions league final, 1 french cup final, 2 league cup finals and the finished 2nd in the league 3 times. I know how to lose.

I reloaded as it just seemed ridiculous for a referee to get a match rating of 3.3, players never get that low so how can a ref. The offside goal was never offside not in a million years.

Aye, keep telling yourself you were cheated and that it's totally justifiable to restart. Because of course there has never been a bad decision in real life that affects a game.

Nope, I can't think of any.

[themadsheep2001]

It's your game so yo can do what you like, but since you made this thread you are looking for others opinions:

Refs have stinkers. We've all seen our sides on the end of it, whether its for or against is IRL. Man/woman up and get on with it, part and parcel of management. I wouldn't have restarted it and for me it would have been "cheating" to do so.

As for recent IRL stinkers: Lee Mason, Liverpool/City; Howard Webb Liverpool/Chelsea and Man United/Spurs

That's my 2 pence anyway.

[johnhughthom]

The only real issue here, in my opinion, is the lack of media comment and club/supporter empathy when such a refereeing performance occurs in FM.

[forameuss]

Plus I would add that it adds to the story. You can look back at that event and use it as personal motivation to win the next time. My Copa Libertadores final, Santos vs Chivas, and the game decided to schedule the second leg during the Copa America window. Mexico sent their U23 side, so Chivas were relatively untouched. I wasn't so lucky. I got absolutely pumped, but that just made it all the sweeter when I beat them the next year.

[Johnyfooty]

So what if the ref had a bad game? Your cheating the game, of course its up to you to ruin your achievements if you want, but i think its pretty petty to re-load.

And for the past 2-3 years, the ME has been trying too hard to cause upsets, to the point where it's cheating the losing team(not necessarily the player), so I don't see a problem there.

I think it's also petty trying to defend how low the ME has come when it comes to rubber banding results. Woodworks, poor referees and what not,apparently realism goes out of the window when it comes to getting the calculated result.

Woodworks happen, poor referees happen. Sure. But don't tell me that averaging 1.5-2 woodworks per game or having referees screw up every 2nd-3d game is "football".

[ljwjones]

Is it possible for a player in game to get a rating of 3.3? I have never seen it but want to know if its possible.

[johnhughthom]

Is it possible for a player in game to get a rating of 3.3? I have never seen it but want to know if its possible.

I've seen it go that low during a game, usually picks up a bit and the end rating is higher.

[Johnyfooty]

Is it possible for a player in game to get a rating of 3.3? I have never seen it but want to know if its possible.

A look at the funny screenshots thread should get you a few players with ratings below 3. I think there's one with a player having a rating of 0.1 as well.

It's very rare though.

[ljwjones]

I've seen it go that low during a game, usually picks up a bit and the end rating is higher.

A look at the funny screenshots thread should get you a few players with ratings below 3. I think there's one with a player having a rating of 0.1 as well.

It's very rare though.

Good to know, thanks. Just I had never seen it so wanted to check.

[Cougar2010]

Is it possible for a player in game to get a rating of 3.3? I have never seen it but want to know if its possible.

I've seen much worse than 3.3

There have been a few examples over the years of less than 1.0.

As had been said its your save do what you want but its not something I would ever think about doing as I would consider it cheating.

[milnerpoint]

And for the past 2-3 years, the ME has been trying too hard to cause upsets, to the point where it's cheating the losing team(not necessarily the player), so I don't see a problem there.

I think it's also petty trying to defend how low the ME has come when it comes to rubber banding results. Woodworks, poor referees and what not,apparently realism goes out of the window when it comes to getting the calculated result.

Woodworks happen, poor referees happen. Sure. But don't tell me that averaging 1.5-2 woodworks per game or having referees screw up every 2nd-3d game is "football".

Nice post, but most of it has nothing to do with the topic.

[johnhughthom]

Good to know, thanks. Just I had never seen it so wanted to check.

May well be that the ref's huge mistake in your game happened so late there was little time for him to get a few correct decisions that might have pushed his rating back up again.

[themadsheep2001]

And for the past 2-3 years, the ME has been trying too hard to cause upsets, to the point where it's cheating the losing team(not necessarily the player), so I don't see a problem there.

I think it's also petty trying to defend how low the ME has come when it comes to rubber banding results. Woodworks, poor referees and what not,apparently realism goes out of the window when it comes to getting the calculated result.

Woodworks happen, poor referees happen. Sure. But don't tell me that averaging 1.5-2 woodworks per game or having referees screw up every 2nd-3d game is "football".

Except the ME doesnt rubberband results, its not low.... An'd he's not being petty. The ME doesn't "try" do to anything, so thats incorrect, and not really relevant to this thread at all.

Woodworks aren't even remotely related to this.

[milnerpoint]

I've seen much worse than 3.3

There have been a few examples over the years of less than 1.0.

As had been said its your save do what you want but its not something I would ever think about doing as I would consider it cheating.

I've had a 2.1 before, 4 mistakes leading to goals

[themadsheep2001]

The only real issue here, in my opinion, is the lack of media comment and club/supporter empathy when such a refereeing performance occurs in FM.

Agreed. The player should have been able to have an outburst over this, and rightly or wrongly possibly be charged for comments etc.

[ljwjones]

Just so you know I am not trying to accuse the match engine of being poor, or the results being fixed or anything. I love the game and accept these things happen. Its just when this particular one happen it annoyed me to the point where i turned it off.

[forameuss]

Woodworks happen, poor referees happen. Sure. But don't tell me that averaging 1.5-2 woodworks per game or having referees screw up every 2nd-3d game is "football".

For the most part in the SPFL at the weekend, the referees made countless mistakes. In the past three Thistle games, the referee has been terrible. Spitefully so. So aye, I would say having referees screw up is "football", as you so eloquently put it.

[milnerpoint]

I cannot think of one example in FM when the ref has cost me a game, id love to see it more, there is not enough controversy in the game at the moment.

Oh Forameuss, its just because Thistle are mince, support a real team like Aberdeen and you will get somewhere

[forameuss]

I cannot think of one example in FM when the ref has cost me a game, id love to see it more, there is not enough controversy in the game at the moment.

Oh Forameuss, its just because Thistle are mince, support a real team like Aberdeen and you will get somewhere

Can't think of any either. I remember an extremely borderline decision in the North American Champions League final falling in my favour. Chivas were playing LA Galaxy (I'm the latter) and Fierro put what he thought was the winner in. He was called offside, but from whatever angle I watched it from, I couldn't decide whether he was or not. I'd like more like that - controversy is fine, just need to get on with it.

And the only reason you beat us milner was because you cowardly played us when Gabby Piccolo was running about like a terrified bambi Thought Calvin Zola was going to eat him that first game...

[looking busy]

Personally I'd so don't restart. It's you game and you can do what you like regardless of any one else's opinion.

As someone else said, you might as well restart after every loss due to poor performance by either players or referees. Accept that you did brilliantly to reach the final and move on to the next season.

[milnerpoint]

Can't think of any either. I remember an extremely borderline decision in the North American Champions League final falling in my favour. Chivas were playing LA Galaxy (I'm the latter) and Fierro put what he thought was the winner in. He was called offside, but from whatever angle I watched it from, I couldn't decide whether he was or not. I'd like more like that - controversy is fine, just need to get on with it.

And the only reason you beat us milner was because you cowardly played us when Gabby Piccolo was running about like a terrified bambi Thought Calvin Zola was going to eat him that first game...

I've had dodgy offside decisions against me, but none that have cost points or a game. I would really like to see more.

I quite like a bit of faluire in FM, as daft as it sounds, it gives you something to aim for. I won the SPFL twice in a row, the season after i finished 3rd after a horrific top 6 split, and missed out on the CL, ment i had to sell some big players and basically re-build, for me it added a few more seasons of real interest.

Piccolo was terrible that first game! Its about the only good game Zola has played for us all season! hahaha.

[ljwjones]

The only real issue here, in my opinion, is the lack of media comment and club/supporter empathy when such a refereeing performance occurs in FM.

There wasn't even an option to question it in the press conference, which added insult to injury.

Personally I'd so don't restart. It's you game and you can do what you like regardless of any one else's opinion.

As someone else said, you might as well restart after every loss due to poor performance by either players or referees. Accept that you did brilliantly to reach the final and move on to the next season.

Don't get how restarting 1 game meants i will now restart them all when i lose. That point makes no sense. I normally accept that i did well and move on(see previous post about what ive lost and moved on) but this one only got me due to how bad the ref was and due to having a perfectly legal goal ruled out.

[Dagenham_Dave]

If I wasn't able to handle failure in this game, I'd have played it for 10 minutes, and not the 1000 hours that I have

Last night a prime example, went into a cup game against Eredivisie side Den Haag (I'm Sittard in the 2nd Div) on the back of a 10-match winning streak in the league - my best ever run in this version bar none. Matched them all the way in a real thriller. 3-3, heading for extra time, their winger gets the ball almost on the goal line close to the corner flag, proceeds to beat three players whose attempts at tackling were laughable and smashes it into the bottom corner. 92 minutes. Out.

I was raging of course, more at my defenders' p*ss poor attempt at tackling, but you take these things on the chin and move on.

Took out the frustration on Telstar in the next game, winning 5-2.

[Dagenham_Dave]

due to having a perfectly legal goal ruled out.

You said there was a player on the goal line. Where was the keeper when the ball was played forward? If he was in front of the ball and there were no other players involved, then it would have been offside. Be interesting to see a screenie of the exact moment the ball was played.

[looking busy]

There wasn't even an option to question it in the press conference, which added insult to injury.

Don't get how restarting 1 game meants i will now restart them all when i lose. That point makes no sense. I normally accept that i did well and move on(see previous post about what ive lost and moved on) but this one only got me due to how bad the ref was and due to having a perfectly legal goal ruled out.

It's the principal. I never said you would but if you are willing to restart because you believe you lost because of a poor game from the ref then why not just restart after every big match that doesn't go your way.

Either way, it's your game. If you are willing to win the CL by restarting until you get the performance from your players and the ref that you are happy with then go ahead. If it was me, I'd accept that it wasn't meant to be this year and get on with the next season. Sometimes decision don't go your way and sometimes you get the breaks, that's sport, indeed that's life.

[ljwjones]

You said there was a player on the goal line. Where was the keeper when the ball was played forward? If he was in front of the ball and there were no other players involved, then it would have been offside. Be interesting to see a screenie of the exact moment the ball was played.

There was more than one player, it was a set piece there was almost certainly the keeper and the player that is required, plus some more. Needless to say don't have the screen shot due to not saving it. The lines even showed he was onside. Sometimes the lines are pretty much on top of each other and its close, but this time the lines were quite far apart.

[Andyh21]

All about how bad YOU would feel if you re-started but nope a cup final is always a "one off" and anything can happen on the day.

End of day you were playing PSG i.e. a top team which was always going to be a tough one but no I would not haev re-started as winning the cup "2nd time" just wouldn't feel right.

I've said it on another thread and yeah I'll say it here, I was spurs (back in November) and was in 4th on the last day needing a draw at home to relegated Cardiff to clinch it but lost 1-0 having had 9 sot to their 2.

End of day I thought sod that I feel I deserved 4th hence to enjoy playing the following season in the CL rather than a "repeat" season in europa.

It's not like it was a game I should have lost, yes if it was man city away then it would be different as I knew going into it that a draw would be tough to get. A cup final is very different even if it was against an easy team because as I say it was a "one off" moment where as my situation was all about what I deseverd over 38 games let alone the whole of the following season.

[kontermann]

grow a pair

[Kenco]

No chance - it's a stinker but if you reload and win it, it would feel very hollow. You may as well reboot every round to make sure you win it.

Besides, if you'd won in those circumstances you certainly wouldn't have switched off. So why can't you lose that way?

This, this and more of this.

[Dagenham_Dave]

I've said it on another thread and yeah I'll say it here, I was spurs (back in November) and was in 4th on the last day needing a draw at home to relegated Cardiff to clinch it but lost 1-0 having had 9 sot to their 2.

End of day I thought sod that I feel I deserved 4th hence to enjoy playing the following season in the CL rather than a "repeat" season in europa.

.

Clearly you didn't deserve it if you didn't get enough points to finish in the top four. Your example is no different to that of the OP.

[milnerpoint]

All about how bad YOU would feel if you re-started but nope a cup final is always a "one off" and anything can happen on the day.

End of day you were playing PSG i.e. a top team which was always going to be a tough one but no I would not haev re-started as winning the cup "2nd time" just wouldn't feel right.

I've said it on another thread and yeah I'll say it here, I was spurs (back in November) and was in 4th on the last day needing a draw at home to relegated Cardiff to clinch it but lost 1-0 having had 9 sot to their 2.

End of day I thought sod that I feel I deserved 4th hence to enjoy playing the following season in the CL rather than a "repeat" season in europa.

It's not like it was a game I should have lost, yes if it was man city away then it would be different as I knew going into it that a draw would be tough to get. A cup final is very different even if it was against an easy team because as I say it was a "one off" moment where as my situation was all about what I deseverd over 38 games let alone the whole of the following season.

Its exactly the same as the OP. Im sure Harry Redknap would have loved a re-load button for the champions league a few seasons ago to avoid a 'repeat season'.

As its been said, its your game, do what you want, but dont kid yourself that you've achieved anything by doing it, other than cheating the game.

[isignedupfornorealreason]

For the most part in the SPFL at the weekend, the referees made countless mistakes. In the past three Thistle games, the referee has been terrible. Spitefully so. So aye, I would say having referees screw up is "football", as you so eloquently put it.

I dispute this. Most people cry foul of the referee and they don't even know or understand the laws of the game itself. SI themselves have done some fantastic errors, the automatic red card for a handball for example.

Really, there's a reason it's usually qualified and experienced referees who give objective analysis of refereeing performances, they know the flow of the game, they know the laws of the game and they know all the ins and outs related to combining those two. The fan on the stand with his pie and chips knows jack all, same for the manager in most cases. So aye, probably best to consider that 'bad refereeing' performances are usually picked up on and stamped out via review and not what the media/fans/manager figure to be an poor decision.

On that note;

The offside decision in the game depends entirely on where the keeper was positioned, not the defender in that event.

[dOrrrr]

I had a similar scenario in FM2013 in Champions League Semi as defending champions with Milan vs PSG. 0-0 away in first leg and 0-0 home 2nd leg. In extra time I had a goal ruled out. It finished 0-0 and I lost on penalties. After the game it said the ref 'wasn't bad but made one high profile mistake, chopping off a goal that should have stood.' So obviously, like every FM player here, I blew my top in the press conference. After this, the authorities were silent as 'it appeared I had cause to be angry,'

Anyway, I felt like crap but I had to suck it up and go again. I know it feels awful when it seems like the AI is 'scripted,' to give you a 'hard luck story,' but like others have said, if you re-load one game, you may as well re-load them all.

One more point, it is funny how these decisions always go against and never for you?:)

[Neil Brock]

]

Grow a pair? Between the opening season and the one am in now (17/18) We have played and lost no fewer than 1 champions league final, 1 french cup final, 2 league cup finals and the finished 2nd in the league 3 times. I know how to lose.

I reloaded as it just seemed ridiculous for a referee to get a match rating of 3.3, players never get that low so how can a ref. The offside goal was never offside not in a million years.

Could have been much much worse - http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/dec/11/nottingham-forest-anderlecht-match-fixing-scandal-1984

Personally would have taken it on the chin and got on with it. Would make any future win much sweeter.

[Fluisterwoud]

I would replay the match, if it was a 'one time' opportunity, or if it was my first ever CL win with my team.

I remember a FM08 game, I was managing Macclesfield, reached the CL final in 2020/21 and lost the game. I re-loaded the game, won the CL and that's it. I reached the final 5 times more in the next 8 year, winning only 2.

[forameuss]

I dispute this. Most people cry foul of the referee and they don't even know or understand the laws of the game itself. SI themselves have done some fantastic errors, the automatic red card for a handball for example.

Really, there's a reason it's usually qualified and experienced referees who give objective analysis of refereeing performances, they know the flow of the game, they know the laws of the game and they know all the ins and outs related to combining those two. The fan on the stand with his pie and chips knows jack all, same for the manager in most cases. So aye, probably best to consider that 'bad refereeing' performances are usually picked up on and stamped out via review and not what the media/fans/manager figure to be an poor decision.

On that note;

The offside decision in the game depends entirely on where the keeper was positioned, not the defender in that event.

I'm not one of the "pie and chips" brigade who shout the inanities of the ref not knowing what they're doing. But they simply get things wrong. That's not from a view a mile away, that's things like a ball deflecting out for a throw-in and being given the wrong way when it's clearly and audibly wrong.

I'm as likely as anyone to accept that referees do a difficult job, and I never understand the screaming blue murder at them when there's absolutely no chance of any decision being changed. But absolutely wrong decisions are still absolutely wrong decisions. I'm not talking about borderline ones. This isn't a new phenomenon in the Scottish leagues, there are some genuinely poor referees there, and there's a lot less done about it than in England.

But anyway, that's besides the point. All I was saying was using an example of refereeing mistakes happening in real life, so why shouldn't they happen in the game?

[NeilUK]

I have to admit I have done this in the past and every time a few hours of gameplay later I ended up starting a new game, for me it was a title decider, I had a player sent off in 30 seconds for a professional foul, then 3 of my wide players all got injured and carried off so the last 20 mins I played with 9 men and two out of position. I lost and restarted as I felt I had been robbed, this was FM2011 I think, I won the game and title after re-loading and by the time I had got to the end of May I had cancelled my game and restarted. I just felt that anything I achieved after that would be false. I hadn't won the title really, I had lost the last match. It was a really tight season as well so my loss took me from top to 4th and because Chelsea won the Champions League I wouldn't have qualified, so after the restart and winning the title I was in the Champions League. I knew that the following season that the Champions League would have been hollow as I shouldn't have been in it.

As has been said it's your game but just be aware that if you do restart and play the game again you may destroy your long term save

[Kenco]

All about how bad YOU would feel if you re-started but nope a cup final is always a "one off" and anything can happen on the day.

End of day you were playing PSG i.e. a top team which was always going to be a tough one but no I would not haev re-started as winning the cup "2nd time" just wouldn't feel right.

I've said it on another thread and yeah I'll say it here, I was spurs (back in November) and was in 4th on the last day needing a draw at home to relegated Cardiff to clinch it but lost 1-0 having had 9 sot to their 2.

End of day I thought sod that I feel I deserved 4th hence to enjoy playing the following season in the CL rather than a "repeat" season in europa.

It's not like it was a game I should have lost, yes if it was man city away then it would be different as I knew going into it that a draw would be tough to get. A cup final is very different even if it was against an easy team because as I say it was a "one off" moment where as my situation was all about what I deseverd over 38 games let alone the whole of the following season.

But you didn't deserve 4th over the 38 games. If that result had happened on the first day of the season, would you have reloaded?

I was about 4 games from the end of the season in my game recently, with a perfect home record so far but then suddenly lost at home to Stoke, despite dominating. I went on to finish 2nd in the league, missing out on the title by 1 point. Had I got at least a draw against Stoke then I would have won the league, but I just had to live with it and come back stronger next season.

So the next season I won the league quite comfortably and was more interested in breaking the 100 goal barrier for the first time. I'm on 99 goals with one game to play, home to West Ham. Absolutely pummel them but their keeper has one of those days and it finishes 0-0. Gutted again, but I didn't replay the game. I set myself a challenge to come back stronger next season and I did, banging in 116 goals to win the league again.

For me, there was so much more satisfaction from those achievements because of how close I'd come in the previous season. Reloading will never give you the same sense of satisfaction.

[kontermann]

For me, reloading games takes ANY fun/suspense/anger/hate/joy -to put it short: Emotion - out of the game.

Then again, to each his own.

[milnerpoint]

I have actually re-loaded wins before because i wanted the league challenge to go on for a while longer, and it still ruins the immersion of the game so i stopped doing that and just accepted that after a few seasons ill win most things in Scotland.

[kris0710]

The day I re-load a game I lost is the day I stop playing this game. They say these things even themselves out over a season and while I would be gutted I bet if you look back at every decision during the season you would have got one or ten going your way.

In a previous save I lost a month when they game crashed and when I went back to play the month again I picked up 4 more points than I had before the crash. This itself felt wrong and by the end of the season I had given up on a seven year career because it felt wrong.

But alas it's your game, your save and you are free to re-load as much or as little as you like.

[ljwjones]

I have to admit I have done this in the past and every time a few hours of gameplay later I ended up starting a new game, for me it was a title decider, I had a player sent off in 30 seconds for a professional foul, then 3 of my wide players all got injured and carried off so the last 20 mins I played with 9 men and two out of position. I lost and restarted as I felt I had been robbed, this was FM2011 I think, I won the game and title after re-loading and by the time I had got to the end of May I had cancelled my game and restarted. I just felt that anything I achieved after that would be false. I hadn't won the title really, I had lost the last match. It was a really tight season as well so my loss took me from top to 4th and because Chelsea won the Champions League I wouldn't have qualified, so after the restart and winning the title I was in the Champions League. I knew that the following season that the Champions League would have been hollow as I shouldn't have been in it.

As has been said it's your game but just be aware that if you do restart and play the game again you may destroy your long term save

While this might be a valid point this wasn't the league, or even the champions league, it was the league cup(well French one) which in all honesty doesn't count for much. I have won it before, but ive also been knocked out in the first round i have appeared in before. It just really annoyed me to see my lads beat man city 4-0 then a few days later lose due to a dodgy refereeing decision. Maybe if this result had come after a few league games or whatever I wouldn't have quit. Or even if the ref had made just that one mistake, but it got to me.

I don't reload to win, i have lost champions league final lost French cup finals, league cup finals, titles at the last second, it all. But this one was annoying and I restarted. Well will do when I get home. If I lose then ah well i will lose, if i win then its another win. Its not a save wrecker, just a huge "grr get lost"(to put it nicely) moment.

[Andyh21]

But you didn't deserve 4th over the 38 games. If that result had happened on the first day of the season, would you have reloaded?

I went on to finish 2nd in the league, missing out on the title by 1 point. Had I got at least a draw against Stoke then I would have won the league, but I just had to live with it and come back stronger next season.

For me, there was so much more satisfaction from those achievements because of how close I'd come in the previous season. Reloading will never give you the same sense of satisfaction.

But winning the league is a bit different I mean you even get an "acheivement" for doing that. I'm only being honest, end of day I did have the satisfaction in season 2 being in CL because as said it was a game that I should have got something out of it, no ifs or buts hence why I did it. Overall I didnt do that great in S2 but enjoyed the "game" more as at the end of the day that's what it is.

I mean I've actually done it "for real" since so there you go, what more can I say about something I cant undo which I did 2 months ago?