Ackter Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 One of the complaints I see running around GQ a lot is that their strikers don't score. In particular, Lionel Messi - who is returning a paltry one goal every two games on average for both users and AI in all the posts I've seen. So, let's see what we can do about that, then, shall we? As always, and I wouldn't be me if I didn't do it this way, defence comes first. I want Messi scoring, but not at the expense of my defensive record. As such, I will be adopting my favourite approach and Sweeper the hell out of everyone. Those of you who followed my catenaccio thread will see the basic formational approach is similar, but the on-field approach is almost completely different: So that's about 30% Herrera, 70% Guardiola in my approach I reckon. Basically, absorb any attacks and then a patient counter attack. This might not even slightly work, but let's give it a try, eh? First thing I'll have to do is buy some defenders as Barca's are bloody tiny. Luckily I can offload all the wingers they have in order to finance some hefty purchases. I plan on raiding Germany for Papadapapalapalapadopulous and Hummels, though I'm not too confident on netting that last one. As this laptop is horrendous, I'm running in FMC mode, so I won't have the analysis tools to play around with. But hey, what's the worst that could happen? The team breakdown: Defensive Diamond I love me some defensive diamonds. Been playing with them for decades. As you can see, it's pretty standard. Regular sweeper and two central defenders, supported by a defensive DLP in order to facilitate counter attacks. The Wings! How can you play Barcelona and not try and absolute dominate the wings with your wingbacks? Central Midfield This is a nice combination of a defensive CM, to link up the defence and attack, and a more mobile attacking CM roaming in front of him. This is supplemented by the DLP who will be dropping deeper to help control this part of the pitch. Messi And that leaves Messi. His job is to attack. Let's see if we can facilitate his ability to do that, then. Disclaimer: This may have to be put on hold at any point due to the performance of this horrible machine and retried when I'm back on my proper one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 Match 1 - Home to Levante A rather nice match to start off with, should find no real problems here. The team is working as expected almost right from the start with 61% possession and allowing Levante very little when it comes to chances on goal. Team is working well in this match, patiently passing the ball around midfield waiting for a good chance. Messi himself was only eclipsed by Jordi Alba's outstanding performance on the left flank. Messi managed 9 shots on goal, 6 of them on target but only 1 goal. However, he did manage to nab himself an assist as well. Going to play a few more matches like this, but my first thought is that I'll need to exploit the centre to get Messi scoring to his best potential. Xavi should be fit for the next match so he'll be replacing Alex Song in midfield to see how he performs, though it's hard to fault Song's performance there... Goal of the match is, of course, Lionel Messi's - and this is him doing exactly what I want him to be doing: [video=youtube;tv4uLM5I6Bc] I think you'll agree, that's a pretty Messi finish. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 What do you think a realistic goals target is? I think that barring some extreme fortune, the 60-70 goals per season days in FM are a thing of the past. If you can get him near to 50, I think it would be a Hell of an achievement - good luck! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 I'm aiming for a minimum of 1 goal per game and after his last match, I'm not convinced it's going to be that hard... [video=youtube;_8FrH7vDlOs] You'll have to excuse the scoreline, I was fielding a severely weakened midfield. (I really wish I had a decent PC as encoding and uploading the highlights is taking just as long as watching the matches...) I've been unable to sign Hummels, so my secondary target of Vermaelen has been brought in from the Gunners. That's my first choice defensive three now sorted. Messi Stats Games: 2 Shots: 17 On Target: 11 (65%) Goals: 4 (1 hattrick) Minutes per Goal: 45 Assists: 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yonko Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 They would put you in jail in Catalonia for using this tactic with Barca. LOL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 Made a couple of changes based on the current match where I kept running into a wall when attacking. I've removed the Exploit the Middle instruction to open up the attacking options a bit more, and removed Pass Shorter to add a little more urgency to the attacks. Immediately started playing better and Messi nets himself a brace, including a monster long shot from an unmarked position at a corner (I have him lurking outside the box in the hope of picking up any sloppy clearances). [video=youtube;N8ZwMPUVSAI] Messi Stats Games: 3 Shots: 23 On Target: 15 (65%) Goals: 6 (1 brace, 1 hattrick) Minutes per Goal: 45 Assists: 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peleJunior Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Is Messi the DLF or AF. I love your writing style Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 He's the AF, it's all about Messi. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModernLefty Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Ackter, I guess my only qualm is does Messi do enough to play like Messi other than score in your system? Because what makes him so great is the fact that he scores those numbers, and also takes part in chance creation and is not just a pure finisher. Though I do accept that your playing him as an AF instead of a poacher, and the only person who can say whether he isn't or is, is you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 In order to get him to play like real life Messi I'd need to replicate Barca's tactics, which I have no real interest in doing. This is just an exercise in seeing just what is possible with goalscoring. His PPMs will go some way to overwriting my tactical instructions anyway. And as such, I've changed Messi from an Advanced Forward to a Poacher and set him to Hold Position - he was drifting wide too often and putting in crosses, which I don't want him doing as much. His shot accuracy dropped in this match, but I'm going to give it a few games to see if it's because of his role change. He still netted a lovely Messi-esque goal though. [video=youtube;2NlnN_OO160] Messi Stats Games: 4 Shots: 29 On Target: 17 (59%) Goals: 7 (1 brace, 1 hattrick) Minutes per Goal: 51.43 Assists: 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macca72 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Looking forward to following this through, mainly because you have described the exact way I want to play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 Yup, playing him as a poacher has had a negative effect on his accuracy and positioning, so he's going back to an Advanced Forward role. Am sticking with Hold Position, though, for a few more games. He's getting a high percentage of Goal of the Matches, with only one match so far giving that accolade to someone else. [video=youtube;szHRUhVz4hY] [video=youtube;1xw0miIgrwo] [video=youtube;KDIHcMc0k9w] Messi Stats Games: 7 Shots: 44 On Target: 25 (55%) Goals: 10 (1 brace, 1 hattrick) Minutes per Goal: 63 Assists: 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD nawrat Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 What is Messi's average rating for you so far? 4 appearances, 7 goals and 1 assist suggest it will be very high. Interested to see how this goes. Not interested in particular with getting Messi to reproduce results like he does irl, more just to see if you can get a lot of goals out one player on FM14. Seen it happen on previous games but it's with game-breaking tactics half of the time. e: just as I post, you've updated. 7 games, 10 goals and 2 assists is slightly less than the above (8 contributions in 2 games compared to 12 in 7) but still impressive, obviously. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 8.36 avr so far. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD nawrat Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Impressive stuff How's the rest of the team doing? Neymar in particular seems to be getting a lot of assists. Are you a one-man team or have you got the rest of the team scoring goals too? It's an interesting thread but I think the tactic you're using is very interesting too, but obviously you're not focussing on that because that's not the point of the thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 I have pretty much the entire team on Shoot Less Often, but they're still getting a bunch of goals between them. Neymar is great on the counter, awful in regular play. Holds on to the ball too long, gets caught out all the time etc. Ideally it would be Fabregas there, but he's injured. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 Right, there's a gap between my midfield and attack, so the DLF is being dropped back to an Attacking Midfield role. The DLP has also been changed to a Support role to try and get more going. Getting exposed regularly on the flanks as well, so changing the Wingbacks to regular attacking wingbacks. Doesn't help that Busquets has been injured as well, he was the perfect DLP for this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 Played that for half a match, it left Messi too isolated up top on his own and he only managed three snatched shots. Admittedly he still managed to get a goal from those three shots, but it was so ridiculously route one that it barely counts. Have changed Neymar back to a DLF with support duty and it's much better again. Song has also been changed to a support duty to get him helping out as well. The team seem to be linking up that little bit better in the opposition half now. [video=youtube;cuNfDioq7MQ] [video=youtube;CKnjV1UVw14] [video=youtube;HwIFClxUXDg] Messi Stats Games: 10 Shots: 60 On Target: 36 (58%) Goals: 14 (2 braces, 1 hattrick) Minutes per Goal: 64.29 Assists: 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yonko Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 This is fun and interesting to follow. I'm noticing that majority of Messi's goals in these clips are after Neymar/Fabregas pass the ball to him. I guess the relationship between DLF and AF (classic combo) as your frontline is working perfectly. Have you tried or would you try CF(A) and F9 partnership? Or is that too much creative freedom for your liking? I must admit this has got me curious to try 2 strikers formation with Barca, although I wouldn't go with 352 but rather with 442. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted January 6, 2014 Author Share Posted January 6, 2014 CF(A) is definitely in my thoughts to try at some point, and while I always love an F9, I don't think this is the right objective to try it with. Currently, as you say, the DLF is doing exactly what he's meant to be doing and I'm loathe to change it currently. I'm also stopping the highlight videos as it just takes too damn long on this machine. Messi Stats Games: 15 Shots: 88 On Target: 55 (61%) Goals: 19 (2 braces, 1 hattrick) Minutes per Goal: 71.5 Assists: 6 As you can see, I have no problem getting him to score, but he's not following it up with more goals or assists. Time to make some more changes methinks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yonko Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I think his assists might increase if you changed him to CF(A) role. Or you could try and switch him with Neymar, their roles I mean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted January 6, 2014 Author Share Posted January 6, 2014 Yet more changes at FC Barcelona: Changed to Control strategy as I wanted to up the overall possession, which has worked in most cases. Have also refocused the attack through the middle to try and emphasise Messi again. Messi's shot accuracy is working its way back up again, but his actual shot count has dropped. I think if I can get his shot count back up while maintaining this accuracy, he'll be ridiculous. Not really too sure on how to do that yet, may have to abandon some of the slower passing and go more direct. Messi Stats Games: 20 Shots: 111 On Target: 71 (63%) Goals: 26 (4 braces, 1 hattrick) Minutes per Goal: 68.15 Assists: 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted January 6, 2014 Author Share Posted January 6, 2014 Ok, probably the last update for tonight but I think I've finally nailed it. Notable changes: Direct Passing and Passing into Space implemented. MC -> AP to provide an alternate link directly to Messi. This has made all the difference, and Messi has just gone crazy with two braces and two hattricks in his last 5 matches. He has yet to fail to score in any match. [video=youtube;PYVUmAWJFwc] Messi Stats Games: 25 Shots: 148 On Target: 98 (65%) Goals: 37 (6 braces, 3 hattricks) Minutes per Goal: 60.05 Assists: 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yonko Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Nice! I was going to suggest that if you need Messi to be fed better and take more shots to use Higher Tempo and/or to give him more creative role like CF(A). I was also going to ask/suggest why not using Iniesta in a playmaking role. But I see you've already figured that out and changed it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidPengilley Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Damn that's some impressive stats! Great read Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaycar Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I'm loving this thread! Very interesting experiment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Äktsjon Männ Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Definitely going very well. I wonder if you could manage similar with Cristiano Ronaldo? Surely a more difficult challenge with some of his, shall we say, less desirable PPM's (especially 'shoots from distance') Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skruddi Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 How have you set up your player instruction ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted January 6, 2014 Author Share Posted January 6, 2014 It's Barcelona, they don't really need player instructions. The only ones I have set are: WBs: Get forward more Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted January 6, 2014 Author Share Posted January 6, 2014 Nice! I was going to suggest that if you need Messi to be fed better and take more shots to use Higher Tempo and/or to give him more creative role like CF(A). I was also going to ask/suggest why not using Iniesta in a playmaking role. But I see you've already figured that out and changed it. I tried CF(A) for one game and he spent most of it out wide putting crosses into the box, so changed it back at about half time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted January 6, 2014 Author Share Posted January 6, 2014 Definitely going very well. I wonder if you could manage similar with Cristiano Ronaldo? Surely a more difficult challenge with some of his, shall we say, less desirable PPM's (especially 'shoots from distance') Ronaldo is doing fine without me being near him - he was top scorer in the league ahead of Messi after 3 months, though he's been overtaken now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jean.lamy84 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Very interresting tests. Many thanks for this. I'm wondering how to improve the same way but with a 3 men combo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted January 6, 2014 Author Share Posted January 6, 2014 Figured half way through the season would be a good time to post this: Messi Stats Games: 30 Shots: 181 On Target: 120 (65%) Goals: 44 (8 braces, 3 hattricks) Minutes per Goal: 60.73 Assists: 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yonko Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Can't see the picture. But those are some impressive stats. Who else is scoring goals on the team? I have an idea for your next experiment. See if you can manage to make Suarez and Sturridge partnership score goals as they do IRL. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 Here's the rest of them: No-one else scores that much because they're not meant to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 Ahah, Messi out with a dead leg and I lose my first game of the season 2-1 away at Shaktar Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 These stats have to be posted in General Discussion when the season is complete! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 "Yeah, but you were playing in FMC". I'm calling it now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 I've made the change so that my wingbacks now play on opposite sides so they're forced to cut inside and pass instead of cross. The results have been... explosive... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 So the season ends and the results are in... Messi Stats Games: 52 Shots: 317 On Target: 184 (57%) Goals: 73 (14 braces, 4 hattricks) Minutes per Goal: 64.55 Assists: 12 He only failed to score in one match that he played in all season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Amazing! Well done, makes my 50 goal target look a little weedy. Was this your first real look at FMC? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 That took me half a season to work out how to get the best out of him - I'm hoping to top it in season 2. Changing the wingbacks to play on their opposite sides significantly improved the scorelines in the matches so I reckon I can get more out of him. Yes, this is my first proper look at FMC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidPengilley Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Wow! And how was Ronaldo's stats in the end? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 He got hit by a huge injury after Christmas and only made it to 34 games. He finished on 29 goals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yonko Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Am I the only one who can't see the pictures in the last few posts? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Äktsjon Männ Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Can't see them either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
valehannes Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 You can open them in a separate tab. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Äktsjon Männ Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Nah, I can't. They show up as a missing image icon, viewing it in a separate tab just shows the icon instead of the image. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 I have no idea why they wouldn't be showing up. Could be something to do with the forum resizing them because they're wider than the forum or something. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jean.lamy84 Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 So in order to summarize (and see if I understood), you've set up Messi as an advanded forward without particular instructions apart a more direct passing and with your wingback playing on their opposite foot (so cutting inside and not crossing). I want to take the best of Messi in the class Barca tactic. With 2 inside forwards. If I follow your idea I will set Messi as Advanded forward/Attack. I will set Neymar as left inside forward and more direct passing (as I use team instruction short passing) I will set Sanchez/Pedro as right inside forward and more direct passing/cross less often. Both on support. As I'm also playing with Complete wing back, I may use cross less often too. What do you think about it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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