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Ajax - When Real Life Meets Football Manager - FM14

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Literally, and without a single shadow of a doubt, THE best thread that has ever been written on this forum (and there has been a hell of a lot - a good share from yourself Cleon).

The detail regarding Ajax' youth system is literally incredible reading. The fact you included 20 odd drills is just an absolute bonus.

The detail you have provided within the actual game itself is incredible.

I am literally in awe, I don't hide it.

No but's, if's or maybe's - most definitely the best thread that has ever been written.

Wonderful wonderful wonderful thread.

I do not post much - but quite frankly, it would be rude not to tell you how good this is.

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Can somebody help me out and fill me in as to whqt the difference between the two tutoring options are? Do both of them affect personality and determination? What attributes are actually affected by tutoring?

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Can somebody help me out and fill me in as to whqt the difference between the two tutoring options are? Do both of them affect personality and determination? What attributes are actually affected by tutoring?

Determination is the only visible stat affected by tutoring, the rest are the hidden attributes that make up the personality (Professionalism, Ambition, etc.)

The difference between the two options is that first option has a chance to transfer PPM's. They both have the same affect on the personality attributes.

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Great thread again Cleon, as always. I've just really started playing fm14 and this is one area I really want to get into.

Quick question if that's ok. I'm assuming to get full value out of this, your tactics stay constant both throughout the club and through your career managing the so you have a clear idea of how you want your youth players to develop to fit into your tactic?

The reason I ask is because I tend to get bored in anything remotely resembling a long term save without changing my tactics!

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Great thread again Cleon, as always. I've just really started playing fm14 and this is one area I really want to get into.

Quick question if that's ok. I'm assuming to get full value out of this, your tactics stay constant both throughout the club and through your career managing the so you have a clear idea of how you want your youth players to develop to fit into your tactic?

The reason I ask is because I tend to get bored in anything remotely resembling a long term save without changing my tactics!

I still change tactics if I'm bored. You can always retrain people if needed, most of my players can play various positions anyway so I can be flexible with the formations I use if I want :)

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May I ask when should I loan players out? I got some pretty good youngsters and I am dilemma if I should loan them out or not.

I am southampton with top training facilities (if it is related?) and top youth facilities.

Lets say if the "loaner club" got good~superb training and youth facilities. Is it better to keep them in my own reserve team?

Thanks for your help.

P.S. I am abit confused if I should look at the training facilities or youth facilites for the "loaner club" as well. Since they will offer first team commitment, should I focus on the training facilities regarding my player's age?

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May I ask when should I loan players out? I got some pretty good youngsters and I am dilemma if I should loan them out or not.

I am southampton with top training facilities (if it is related?) and top youth facilities.

Lets say if the "loaner club" got good~superb training and youth facilities. Is it better to keep them in my own reserve team?

Thanks for your help.

P.S. I am abit confused if I should look at the training facilities or youth facilites for the "loaner club" as well. Since they will offer first team commitment, should I focus on the training facilities regarding my player's age?

If you want to loan out, you should definitely consider the loanee team's facilities. You can actually private chat loaned out players and tell them to "make the most of the team's facilities while out on loan".

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Why do you want to loan them out?

If you keep them at your club, you have control of their specific development (tutoring, PPMs, game time, attribute training).

If you send them on loan, there's a real chance that their development can stall.

A key part of youth development is building the infrastructure at your club up. When you have good facilities and staff, it's a shame not to make use of them.

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May I ask when should I loan players out? I got some pretty good youngsters and I am dilemma if I should loan them out or not.

I am southampton with top training facilities (if it is related?) and top youth facilities.

Lets say if the "loaner club" got good~superb training and youth facilities. Is it better to keep them in my own reserve team?

Thanks for your help.

P.S. I am abit confused if I should look at the training facilities or youth facilites for the "loaner club" as well. Since they will offer first team commitment, should I focus on the training facilities regarding my player's age?

You're asking the wrong person here :D

I'm a big believer you shouldn't loan players out. When you loan them out regardless of how good the facilities are, you lose time training them to be the player you need them to be. The AI is more generic at training and isn't really any good at it. So you might have spent 2 years training him to be a F9 and when he's loaned out the AI might think different and start training him as a targetman for example, which isn't any use at all and will harm his development due to training something you don't want. It also means you can't tutor him to give the correct personality type or teach him PPM's.

If you want to loan him out due to him not been able to get in your side then imo you have too many players. Regardless of how good someone is you can always give them sub apperances and fit them on the bench.

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Cleon I spent a few hours studying what you wrote and I'm extremely impressed.

I have a couple of questions -

1/ When choosing tutor I often come across description of the youth as "the next whoever (which luckily is in my team)" and "similar type of player to (his teammate)". Would it be better off to ask for that guy to tutor the youth?

2/ At the youth's Training tab, there is a little box on top left showing feedback from coaches, describing what training would suit best to the youth. Sometimes the coach suggests the youth would benefit from tutoring from specific someone. Now I don't listen to him on training attributes, but would you listen to his advice on tutoring? Perhaps he can look into the hidden attributes and give the advice? Let's say the coaches are pretty good in stat and rep.

Thanks!

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Cleon I spent a few hours studying what you wrote and I'm extremely impressed.

I have a couple of questions -

1/ When choosing tutor I often come across description of the youth as "the next whoever (which luckily is in my team)" and "similar type of player to (his teammate)". Would it be better off to ask for that guy to tutor the youth?

2/ At the youth's Training tab, there is a little box on top left showing feedback from coaches, describing what training would suit best to the youth. Sometimes the coach suggests the youth would benefit from tutoring from specific someone. Now I don't listen to him on training attributes, but would you listen to his advice on tutoring? Perhaps he can look into the hidden attributes and give the advice? Let's say the coaches are pretty good in stat and rep.

Thanks!

1 - No its personality that matters, nothing else matters.

2 - No as he might not have a good personality. My coaches tell me all the time to tutor someone and I'll check and they'll have a balanced personality with is useless. So no, always go with the personality types you want him to have :)

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why should balanced personality be bad for tutoring?

Read the personality part of the thread and you'll see why. The whole point of tutoring is to give players better personalities. Balanced isn't good and isn't bad, its just a useless personality type and pointless.

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1 - No its personality that matters, nothing else matters.

2 - No as he might not have a good personality. My coaches tell me all the time to tutor someone and I'll check and they'll have a balanced personality with is useless. So no, always go with the personality types you want him to have :)

Thanks for the answer :)

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You're asking the wrong person here :D

I'm a big believer you shouldn't loan players out. When you loan them out regardless of how good the facilities are, you lose time training them to be the player you need them to be. The AI is more generic at training and isn't really any good at it. So you might have spent 2 years training him to be a F9 and when he's loaned out the AI might think different and start training him as a targetman for example, which isn't any use at all and will harm his development due to training something you don't want. It also means you can't tutor him to give the correct personality type or teach him PPM's.

If you want to loan him out due to him not been able to get in your side then imo you have too many players. Regardless of how good someone is you can always give them sub apperances and fit them on the bench.

Thanks for your answer :) This dilemma caused me headache for a week LOL

+oil on ur Ajax, I m following it everyday :D

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Cleon any chance you are still playing the Ajax save and update us with the kids' progress? Love to see how they develop under your mentor especially the regen (if they are still at the club!)

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Previous to this post here about the development of a young player of mine at Benfica, Joao Pedro, I thought I'd further update you on his progress.

Since that post I have moved to Tottenham in my save, and I have brought Joao Pedro with me at a cost of £14.5million. I've been at the club not for eight months, and it is now August 2021. Here is how he is looking now;

JoatildeoPedro_OverviewAttributes_zps8e8804c8.png

In just a year since August 2020 he has imprived so much. At Spurs I've been using him as my only striker as a False Nine. During his time at the club he has scored thirteen goals and assisted four more in 23 appearances. The frightening thing is that he has only recently turned 20 and still has some developing to do.

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Cleon any chance you are still playing the Ajax save and update us with the kids' progress? Love to see how they develop under your mentor especially the regen (if they are still at the club!)

I still have the save but I've quit writing about the game now so I won't be doing any updating sadly. Blame all those who keep sending abuse my way :). I know my posts helped a lot of people but when people start taking pop shots and get abusive no matter how many people they help its just not worth it for me any longer.

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Previous to this post here about the development of a young player of mine at Benfica, Joao Pedro, I thought I'd further update you on his progress.

Since that post I have moved to Tottenham in my save, and I have brought Joao Pedro with me at a cost of £14.5million. I've been at the club not for eight months, and it is now August 2021. Here is how he is looking now;

JoatildeoPedro_OverviewAttributes_zps8e8804c8.png

In just a year since August 2020 he has imprived so much. At Spurs I've been using him as my only striker as a False Nine. During his time at the club he has scored thirteen goals and assisted four more in 23 appearances. The frightening thing is that he has only recently turned 20 and still has some developing to do.

He's made some great improvements Tom :cool:

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He's made some great improvements Tom :cool:

Alot of it is down to playing every game.

At Benfica I was constantly rotating to keep players fresh for bigger games, but at Spurs I haven't had such a big squad and haven't had a striker I fancied as my regular False Nine, hence why I moved him up there. In that second half of the season after he joined me at Spurs he started 21 out of 28 games. :eek:

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I still have the save but I've quit writing about the game now so I won't be doing any updating sadly. Blame all those who keep sending abuse my way :). I know my posts helped a lot of people but when people start taking pop shots and get abusive no matter how many people they help its just not worth it for me any longer.

Will you keep on updating your own website? You've been a huge influence to me and how I play the game, genuinely believe that without your threads / help I'd have quit FM a long time ago so you decided to pack in what you're obviously extremely talented at would be a shame.

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Will you keep on updating your own website? You've been a huge influence to me and how I play the game, genuinely believe that without your threads / help I'd have quit FM a long time ago so you decided to pack in what you're obviously extremely talented at would be a shame.

Nope, the only thing I'll be continuing is clearcutchance.com

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Cleon -

I am sad to see you go. Even in my short time playing FM, I have found that it has been your threads that have helped me figure out how to play the game. Thank you for the time and effort you have put into all of us. It is greatly appreciated.

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In just a year since August 2020 he has imprived so much. At Spurs I've been using him as my only striker as a False Nine. During his time at the club he has scored thirteen goals and assisted four more in 23 appearances. The frightening thing is that he has only recently turned 20 and still has some developing to do.

I don't much like his stats for a striker, 11 finishing???

Too much speed and dribbling on him, would have invested more in Technique/first touch/passing, have a 3 star midfielder Clément Grenier (that regularly outperform Xavi and Iniesta) with 17 technique/passing/first touch and it seems to make him pull of some amazing moves.

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I still have the save but I've quit writing about the game now so I won't be doing any updating sadly. Blame all those who keep sending abuse my way :). I know my posts helped a lot of people but when people start taking pop shots and get abusive no matter how many people they help its just not worth it for me any longer.

Totally understand your viewpoint and I regrettably support your decision.

On a different note, I understand you never ever let your youths away on loan, but have you come across situations that they "claim" they hadn't got enough appearances and want to go on loan? Would you risk upset the player and the squad harmony and agree, or would you stand firm and keep them in club? Some youths are quite stubborn and arrogant... (I just took over a club so many of the 19s and 20s do not contain desirable personalities)

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Totally understand your viewpoint and I regrettably support your decision.

On a different note, I understand you never ever let your youths away on loan, but have you come across situations that they "claim" they hadn't got enough appearances and want to go on loan? Would you risk upset the player and the squad harmony and agree, or would you stand firm and keep them in club? Some youths are quite stubborn and arrogant... (I just took over a club so many of the 19s and 20s do not contain desirable personalities)

Don't give them contracts with more important squad statuses and they wont moan about not playing. :)

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I don't much like his stats for a striker, 11 finishing???

Too much speed and dribbling on him, would have invested more in Technique/first touch/passing, have a 3 star midfielder Clément Grenier (that regularly outperform Xavi and Iniesta) with 17 technique/passing/first touch and it seems to make him pull of some amazing moves.

The finishing stat really isn't the be all and end all. Personally reckon people get a bit too much hung up on it - 16 goals in 27 games at Tottenham says he's doing alright.

Also, he's playing as a False Nine, he's not exactly leading the line.

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The finishing stat really isn't the be all and end all. Personally reckon people get a bit too much hung up on it - 16 goals in 27 games at Tottenham says he's doing alright.

Also, he's playing as a False Nine, he's not exactly leading the line.

I agree in all honesty also to have such stats at 20 years of age he is without a doubt a huge talent, i think you've done a great job nurturing him

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Don't give them contracts with more important squad statuses and they wont moan about not playing. :)

Sadly they are "hot prospects" already. I end up offer them on loan and probably recall them if they don't develop like what I expect, during the evening of the next winter transfer window!

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I agree in all honesty also to have such stats at 20 years of age he is without a doubt a huge talent, i think you've done a great job nurturing him

Exactly. If I can get his "Finishing" up to 13/14, I reckon he'll be something really special.

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This is some terrible thread, I came across it a few weeks and read it at least five times.

It´s just amazing to see how a few people do research on reallife based teams and recreate it in to FM. And with such a detail, impressive.

And of course gives you some precious informations, especially on tutoring and personality!

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The finishing stat really isn't the be all and end all. Personally reckon people get a bit too much hung up on it - 16 goals in 27 games at Tottenham says he's doing alright.

Also, he's playing as a False Nine, he's not exactly leading the line.

One of the key attribute of F9 is long shot, another thing he doesn't have, bad long shot + bad finishing = bad F9.

Maybe I'm spoiled, but your striker, is worse than my defenders.

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One of the key attribute of F9 is long shot, another thing he doesn't have, bad long shot + bad finishing = bad F9.

Maybe I'm spoiled, but your striker, is worse than my defenders.

In my experience a F9 can be more of a creative player vs. goal-scoring player, depending on how you set up your wide men. Two attacking IF's, then F9 with average finishing and long shots can still be ok, if he has good passing, mental, and creative attributes. I'd probably want an attacking CM/AMC along with that, but still.

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One of the key attribute of F9 is long shot, another thing he doesn't have, bad long shot + bad finishing = bad F9.

Maybe I'm spoiled, but your striker, is worse than my defenders.

I think you're being quite pedantic. You are guessing how Tom plays without even understanding how he utilises players. Just because he's using him as a F9 doesn't mean every single F9 plays the same way and its quite clear its working for Tom. The F9 key attributes highlighted by the game are just rough guidelines and I certainly don't agree with the he needs long shots comments. We did an article in the latest edition of www.clearcutchance.com that you might find interesting about how lower attributes can be better than higher ones.

If I was being very pedantic I'd tell you to post your team up and I'd find faults with every single player you had....

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One of the key attribute of F9 is long shot, another thing he doesn't have, bad long shot + bad finishing = bad F9.

Maybe I'm spoiled, but your striker, is worse than my defenders.

That is such a simplistic view, if the False 9 is in the team for good movement and drawing the defenders to allow a SS or pair of IF's in on goal then his finishing is irrelevant. A striker is not always the main goalscoring threat.

You are beginning to derail the thread about player development now.

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One of the key attribute of F9 is long shot, another thing he doesn't have, bad long shot + bad finishing = bad F9.

Maybe I'm spoiled, but your striker, is worse than my defenders.

16 golas in 27 games speaks for its self. :)

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Previous to this post here about the development of a young player of mine at Benfica, Joao Pedro, I thought I'd further update you on his progress.

Since that post I have moved to Tottenham in my save, and I have brought Joao Pedro with me at a cost of £14.5million. I've been at the club not for eight months, and it is now August 2021. Here is how he is looking now;

JoatildeoPedro_OverviewAttributes_zps8e8804c8.png

In just a year since August 2020 he has imprived so much. At Spurs I've been using him as my only striker as a False Nine. During his time at the club he has scored thirteen goals and assisted four more in 23 appearances. The frightening thing is that he has only recently turned 20 and still has some developing to do.

That's some great improvement! Care to share how you are going to develop him further?

It's also interesting you put a non-striker as striker, I always thought that you'd lose performance sticking him out of position. I guess you have been training him to play up front?

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That's some great improvement! Care to share how you are going to develop him further?

It's also interesting you put a non-striker as striker, I always thought that you'd lose performance sticking him out of position. I guess you have been training him to play up front?

With regards further development, I'll just be doing as I said in a previous post;

I don't keep notes on players regards what individual focuses they have done/need to be doing, I just merely act on intuition and what I see infront of me. Sometimes I get it wrong, but hey-ho, real managers do too!

There's no magic formula to it, I just do as I see fit at the time.

Regards performance, I don't see why a player wouldn't play well in a position/role he is suited to just because he isnt "trained" to play in that position. And no, I haven't been training him to play as a striker as retraining players to play in a new position eats away at CA/PA.

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That's some great improvement! Care to share how you are going to develop him further?

It's also interesting you put a non-striker as striker, I always thought that you'd lose performance sticking him out of position. I guess you have been training him to play up front?

I play my strikers out of position on the wings, the young ones anyway, having them cut in and they score a lot from out there. I find players with the right stats can play anywhere, not just their "trained" positions. It's how they are implemented into the side and how that side plays that matters most. I have also played a RB(Rafael) as a striker, due to injuries, and got him scoring a couple of hat tricks. :p

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I play my strikers out of position on the wings, the young ones anyway, having them cut in and they score a lot from out there. I find players with the right stats can play anywhere, not just their "trained" positions. It's how they are implemented into the side and how that side plays that matters most. I have also played a RB(Rafael) as a striker, due to injuries, and got him scoring a couple of hat tricks. :p

I wonder if this links to versatility, otherwise what's the point of position familiarity? :p

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I wonder if this links to versatility, otherwise what's the point of position familiarity? :p

Playing someone out of positions lowers the decision making of that player so if he isn't comfortable in the position then he'll make bad ones at times and get caught out of position, find himself the wrong side of the defender, step up at the wrong time blah blah. I play people out of position all the time its not a massive big deal but it can be if you find the player is making mistakes far too often.

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Sinclair has forced his way in to my starting XI after just 3 years, I've currently got him on a 3-month rotation to try and improve his heading & technique, hoping the majority of his other stats (the more important ones anyway) will improve with game time. Any objections?

sinclair.jpg

After a couple of years being tutored by Suarez, his personality is perfectionist, which I don't mind as I want him to be fairly selfish - the only issue I have with him is the amount of one on ones he misses, usually shoots straight at the keeper so I have tried to use 'places shots' and 'rounds keeper' as preferred moves which he is still learning.

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Roughly how many youth/youngers guys do you have in the squad, i have a pretty youthful 1st team only 5 over 25 and 2 over 30 but have masses of decent/good prospects , when would you start clearign them out ? I have over 60 players on the books am i spreading myself too thin trying to develop that lot

I peronally wait till the hit 30 for the established players and 21 for young guys if they cant get in the squad then i cut them asap

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Guys keep this on topic - spamming/irrelevant posts will be deleted. Don't ruin a good thread with complete drivel.

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