Ajax - When Real Life Meets Football Manager - FM14

[chocolatecoatedballs]

Cheers mate.

[Cleon]

I have a few questions:

1. I saw that you want to get 16 players for development, but do you do this each season. So, do you have 16 season 1, 32, season 2, etc?

2. What is your timeline like for development? 14-18=physical development, 19-21=tutoring & position training, 21=loaning.....

3. When do you drop a youth candidate? What are you looking for in a keeper and at what age?

Just a few...

I answered them above already, no need to repost and PM me when I'd already answered them

[Cross]

And Cleon: Maybe I missed it, but what is the difference between Heavy, Average and Light training? When do I use it and why? I tend to put all my youth players on heavy regimes, but is that really better for a faster development?

Can you answer please?

[Cleon]

Can you answer please?

It's self explanatory what the difference is. Heavy is heavy, light is light. Heavier focus means more weighted towards those attributes. A low intensity means the opposite and they'll not be training hard on the attributes.

[Dr. Hook]

I asked this in the stupid questions thread but it went unanswered, and it occurred to me that a thread on youth development would be the perfect place. Cleon, I know you give your youths plenty of games as they develop. I imagine many are played before they are fully formed as you want them. So, in their developmental stage, I am sure you have run into players becoing complacent during a match. What personality attributes, in your experience, need to be improved to make this a non-issue? I have seen it happen with seemingly all personality types, so I am at a loss, but I would like to train this out of as many of my youngsters as I can early on if possible.

[GEORGE WEAH]

Some crazy questions been asked in this thread everything that Cleon does is pretty much explained in the OP, and im sure there will be as Cleon said more updates to follow, but i would not be surprised if he just gets a bit annoyed with all the daft questions and loses heart with it all.

[Dr. Hook]

Some crazy questions been asked in this thread everything that Cleon does is pretty much explained in the OP, and im sure there will be as Cleon said more updates to follow, but i would not be surprised if he just gets a bit annoyed with all the daft questions and loses heart with it all.

Go ahead and point me to the part where the complacency issue is explained in regards to player personality because I missed it.

[Cleon]

I asked this in the stupid questions thread but it went unanswered, and it occurred to me that a thread on youth development would be the perfect place. Cleon, I know you give your youths plenty of games as they develop. I imagine many are played before they are fully formed as you want them. So, in their developmental stage, I am sure you have run into players becoing complacent during a match. What personality attributes, in your experience, need to be improved to make this a non-issue? I have seen it happen with seemingly all personality types, so I am at a loss, but I would like to train this out of as many of my youngsters as I can early on if possible.

It should improve with age and isn't something you can change via tutoring or training. If you have a good tactic though it shouldn't be much of an issue and you can always sub someone if it is a real issue.

[Bgj101]

Thus is the life of a moderator as I moderate in another forum. And some items that seem clearly stated are not clear to everyone. So, you still have to explain again, in maybe a different fashion.

But, that being said, this is a great forum and no one would ever want Cleon to stop. I, myself, have a whole new appreciation of the game from reading his threads, as I'm more of a teacher than player, if that makes sense. I love to manage and develop more than just play games.

Thanks again to everyone, especially the moderator of this thread

John

[Cleon]

Thus is the life of a moderator as I moderate in another forum. And some items that seem clearly stated are not clear to everyone. So, you still have to explain again, in maybe a different fashion.

But, that being said, this is a great forum and no one would ever want Cleon to stop. I, myself, have a whole new appreciation of the game from reading his threads, as I'm more of a teacher than player, if that makes sense. I love to manage and develop more than just play games.

Thanks again to everyone, especially the moderator of this thread

John

I had planned on updating this thread before now but time is very limited at the minute so not sure when I'll be able to update it. Not for the next few weeks anyway, we are awaiting the arrival of our next child which is due any time in the next 4 weeks. So as you can expect time is limited

I will be updating at some point though and it will be a lengthy update

[Dr. Hook]

It should improve with age and isn't something you can change via tutoring or training. If you have a good tactic though it shouldn't be much of an issue and you can always sub someone if it is a real issue.

Thanks Cleon, and congratulations on the upcoming new arrival!

[phnompenhandy]

I used to get stressed about complacent players. Any sub coming on when we're winning is complacent, and over a 90 min match it seems to pop up a dozen times. Yet, I haven't noticed anyone playing the worse for it. It's quite common for my 17 year ols sub striker to swan onto the pitch all complacent and still bag a goal. So I ignore it now.

[Dr. Hook]

I used to get stressed about complacent players. Any sub coming on when we're winning is complacent, and over a 90 min match it seems to pop up a dozen times. Yet, I haven't noticed anyone playing the worse for it. It's quite common for my 17 year ols sub striker to swan onto the pitch all complacent and still bag a goal. So I ignore it now.

To be honest, I haven't noticed it really mattering in the play either, but it irks me nonetheless to see it Plus I've figured SI put it in the game so it must do something. Well, I just hope it gets reduced with age and experience as Cleon said.

[mcmuffin19]

Hi Cleon, always admired your fantastic work, follow you on twitter too!

To have the best scouting network to give you the greatest chances of picking up the next wonderkid to develop, what leagues do you reccomend having loaded.

[coach vahid]

Hi cleon,

I know you don't wat talk about your tactic i know i've already ask the question, but i really need the instructions for each postion.

I try to find by myself but i can't. I don't care if i won't have results it's not the most important.

But i really need your PI I don't find which attributes to work and i really appreciate if you can help me.

Please .

Thanks

[Cleon]

Hi cleon,

I know you don't wat talk about your tactic i know i've already ask the question, but i really need the instructions for each postion.

I try to find by myself but i can't. I don't care if i won't have results it's not the most important.

But i really need your PI I don't find which attributes to work and i really appreciate if you can help me.

Please .

Thanks

You don't need to know them because you don't understand the logic behind how I've set up etc so its pointless you trying to copy. You should set up for how you want to play not how someone else plays. And if you read the thread you'd know the answer to this and what the settings are anyway.....

It's really annoying that everyone wants spoon feeding every single detail and just copy others. Try finding your own tactics and settings rather than trying to imitate something you don't understand, its pointless unless you understand how it works and why.

Hi Cleon, always admired your fantastic work, follow you on twitter too!

To have the best scouting network to give you the greatest chances of picking up the next wonderkid to develop, what leagues do you reccomend having loaded.

I have every league loaded. It's all down to you though and which you prefer, there is no right or wrong answer.

[GEORGE WEAH]

Go ahead and point me to the part where the complacency issue is explained in regards to player personality because I missed it.

Sorry Dr Hook i did not mean any offence.

[BobbyS]

Hey Cleon, If you were trying to establish a youth academy system in the lower leagues where money was tight what order would you prioritise upgrades? i.e. Junior coaching, training facilities, etc.

Also, I had a look but don't think you mentioned this but what does 'Youth Set Up Category' do and is number 1 the best?

[Gary_Parker]

Superb thread again this year. Loved the links to Whitehouse's blog too, fantastic read. How are finding the inclusion of Jong Ajax in the 2nd division this year, given this is "first team football" at that level, are you using this to further increase their game time etc? Do you see benefit in it, assuming the B team manager gives them games etc.

Also, which player in this years Ajax team has surprised you most in terms of development/performance?

[Rekobeto]

I'm more interested in the parenting part of fm.

When will you start tutoring your new born?

[waitsfornone]

I have a question for some clarification on your loan stance. I completely understand why you don't want to turn over a players develpment to another team/system/staff. How do you balance the match experience needed versus having the squad size necessary to cover for injuries etc? I am going to use the EPL setup because I know the layer off the top of my head. Do you maintain that relatively small squad size of 16 players per level? Thus, which the EPL 3 levels you have a total of 48 players signed to Ajax?

Is that assisted by the Dutch setup of a Reserve instead of U-21 team? I have a number of players in my current Spurs save that are between 22 and 24, and thus are overage for the U-21 matches and as such cannot always get match time in that way. Or, is that helped by the youthful nature of your squad, so most of your starting 11 in the senior squad are very young?

My last little part of the query is, do you micro-manage the team selection for the lower level squads to maintain a rotation of fit players for the senior matches? I have run into the issue if wanting to use a young player in the senior team as cover, only to have them play a youth match the day before the senior match.

[Dr. Hook]

Sorry Dr Hook i did not mean any offence.

No worries, friend. I am sure Cleon *does* get annoyed by some of the questions that are clearly answered in previous posts

[coach vahid]

Ok ,

But i didn't want copy what you've done because if i've got your squad and your tactic i haven't got the same result.

I ve already said but i don't care for the results it's the philosophy i want only.

But after read re-read your thread i don't understand the logic behind it and i don't find the settings like you said .

I'm dumb certainly. So i leave all settings by default. Maybe you can't tell me in what part of the thread your settings are.

I'm sorry to insist.

[Cleon]

I have a question for some clarification on your loan stance. I completely understand why you don't want to turn over a players develpment to another team/system/staff. How do you balance the match experience needed versus having the squad size necessary to cover for injuries etc? I am going to use the EPL setup because I know the layer off the top of my head. Do you maintain that relatively small squad size of 16 players per level? Thus, which the EPL 3 levels you have a total of 48 players signed to Ajax?

Is that assisted by the Dutch setup of a Reserve instead of U-21 team? I have a number of players in my current Spurs save that are between 22 and 24, and thus are overage for the U-21 matches and as such cannot always get match time in that way. Or, is that helped by the youthful nature of your squad, so most of your starting 11 in the senior squad are very young?

My last little part of the query is, do you micro-manage the team selection for the lower level squads to maintain a rotation of fit players for the senior matches? I have run into the issue if wanting to use a young player in the senior team as cover, only to have them play a youth match the day before the senior match.

The key is to not have too many players so you can give youths a chance. The reason for not loaning them out is because you waste valuable time that could be spent tutoring and moulding them into the player you need them to be.

I don't have different squads I just have 1 so then I can keep an eye on every single player and make sure they are always match fit and I can specify who is available for the u21 and u18's.

[sandrosan235]

Cleon Hello, congratulations for your posts are interesting and I follow them with great pleasure from Italy!

This is an interesting job that I would like to propose to my career in FM 14, but I have not figured out how to do in detail to coach the youth of the cantera that are not included in the first team .... train them on a role or developments only one skill at a time? do follow them by a tutor now or wait?

Thank you for your feedback and for the many ideas that will lead to the forum ....

Sorry for my bad english! Alessandro

[janesy20]

Cleon,

When you're requesting a new preferred move as in my example I'm requesting my right only footed left winger to develop weaker foot. When you choose from the selection of coaches to ask him to try this. Do you have to take the coaches attributes in that category into consideration i.e Technique coaching. Or does it not matter?

Thanks.

[Cleon]

Cleon Hello, congratulations for your posts are interesting and I follow them with great pleasure from Italy!

This is an interesting job that I would like to propose to my career in FM 14, but I have not figured out how to do in detail to coach the youth of the cantera that are not included in the first team .... train them on a role or developments only one skill at a time? do follow them by a tutor now or wait?

Thank you for your feedback and for the many ideas that will lead to the forum ....

Sorry for my bad english! Alessandro

Hi

It depends, in my examples you'll see that some players I give role training to and others it'll be single attributes. So it all depends on you and what you think you need the player to develop in

Cleon,

When you're requesting a new preferred move as in my example I'm requesting my right only footed left winger to develop weaker foot. When you choose from the selection of coaches to ask him to try this. Do you have to take the coaches attributes in that category into consideration i.e Technique coaching. Or does it not matter?

Thanks.

I always choose an attacking coach for an attacking PPM's etc. So yeah, I take into account what they train

[valehannes]

In FM13 you had to sub in players before the 75th minute mark because 90+ minutes didn't count and the player didn't get a rating in less than 15 minutes. In FM14 I've noticed that when I sub a player in at 73/74 the player already gets a rating as early as 83rd minute. Have you noticed something similar or are you sure the old 15 minute / pre 75 minute sub thing is still in effect?

[Cleon]

The player still needs 15 minutes minimum for his development.

[Os]

Hi Cleon, Sorry if this has already been asked,

I am wondering in regards to the split between general and match training if you set to have match training to its maximum does this mean that the area you choose would get a bigger pre match boost than if it was set to a minimal setting?

In other words would max focus on attacking movement result in better attacking than a min focus?

[phnompenhandy]

Hi Cleon, Sorry if this has already been asked,

I am wondering in regards to the split between general and match training if you set to have match training to its maximum does this mean that the area you choose would get a bigger pre match boost than if it was set to a minimal setting?

In other words would max focus on attacking movement result in better attacking than a min focus?

Yes. The downside is that the more you focus on short-term gain, the less time is spent on long-term training.

[Hoarau]

Great job keeping people Informed, a lot of the answers youve given have actually resonated with me and I've implemented them so some what succes this season. More of which ill try and share tonight with the progress of how I've developed the players.

The Attribute Vs Specific role training is of great interest to me as since I started FM 14 I've just been lumping people in different role related training while not really picking out specific attributes. Once I changed that approach to a more cyclical training regime of 2 month on a certain attribute then 2 months on a role I've seen some really startling progress, espically with an Ajax newgen I've been working with.

I'm in now way as organised as you Cleon so any "notes" I have are on wee scraps of paper near my PC but ill post some screenshots and try to explain what I've done with the players.

I will state one thing thy this Ajax save has really confirmed for me, the more game time and minutes on the park really brings a player on more than anything.

Ill try and get some update done tonight as I just finished my most successful season, all with a squad the average age of about 22.

[mikcheck]

Cleon, i would like to know your opinion about a young player that i'm about to buy please. Sorry, it's not for FM14 but since this thread is about developing players, i've decided to post in here. This is the player:

He is about to turn 18 and i want to use him as an Adv. Playmaker in the wing. Which individual focus you would give him for that? Maybe quickness?

About personality, he is Driven. Is Driven good or would be better to tutor him with someone Professional?

Thanks.

[Bgj101]

The key is to not have too many players so you can give youths a chance. The reason for not loaning them out is because you waste valuable time that could be spent tutoring and moulding them into the player you need them to be.

I don't have different squads I just have 1 so then I can keep an eye on every single player and make sure they are always match fit and I can specify who is available for the u21 and u18's.

There is one portion of his question that I've asked also, that still hasn't been completely clarified... You said you have one squad...got that.....16 people in u-18's...got that, but what about the u-21, and senior squad. He asked do you have 48 total people....thats what i've been trying to figure out also. So the question that I need answered is this.

How many people are on your squad, total? 16, U18 and how many others?

Thanks in advance....

[Cleon]

There is one portion of his question that I've asked also, that still hasn't been completely clarified... You said you have one squad...got that.....16 people in u-18's...got that, but what about the u-21, and senior squad. He asked do you have 48 total people....thats what i've been trying to figure out also. So the question that I need answered is this.

How many people are on your squad, total? 16, U18 and how many others?

Thanks in advance....

I already answered it the first time you asked so rather than repeating the same questions in the thread and via PM, try actually reading the answers as it saves me getting bored of posting and answering the same question over and over. Plus its explained in the opening posts what I'll be doing for squads.

People want some answers to some very weird **** that doesn't even impact their game or make sense to know the answer too

[Cleon]

Cleon, i would like to know your opinion about a young player that i'm about to buy please. Sorry, it's not for FM14 but since this thread is about developing players, i've decided to post in here. This is the player:

He is about to turn 18 and i want to use him as an Adv. Playmaker in the wing. Which individual focus you would give him for that? Maybe quickness?

About personality, he is Driven. Is Driven good or would be better to tutor him with someone Professional?

Thanks.

Was there individual focus on FM12? I can't remember that far back but I thought it was still sliders?

[mikcheck]

Yes. Still sliders but already with individual focus!

[Cleon]

If he's a playmaker does he really need pace? Will you be using him very high up the pitch and expecting him to track back or will he be influencing the game from deep?

[mikcheck]

Well i'm thinking about teach him comes deep to get the ball PPM. I think being fast is always good when playing someone in the wing, but since he is already 13 pace, maybe it's not so bad.

[Cleon]

Well i'm thinking about teach him comes deep to get the ball PPM. I think being fast is always good when playing someone in the wing, but since he is already 13 pace, maybe it's not so bad.

I'm not sure especially for a creative player. If they are fast then they tend to be infront of the supporting players when ideally you want them to be creative for the players running beyond them and not trying to catch the creative player up as the move can lose momentum imo. I remember having to sell a player for this reason as my other players just couldn't keep up with him and we was wasting good chances due to it

I'd probably work on all the things he'll need for how you want to use him though. He's already good so I'd look to define him and work on the parts you think he needs.

[mikcheck]

Thanks Cleon. I'll follow your advice!

Regarding personality, he is driven but i guess would be better to lose few points in determination and be professional instead?

[max787]

What's his media handling style? If he's evasive or reserved he'll have high professionalism.

[mikcheck]

Hi.

He is media-friendly, reserved.

[Cleon]

Hi.

He is media-friendly, reserved.

If you follow the link in the personality part of this thread then you can check what hidden attributes he has

[mikcheck]

Thanks Cleon. I was just reading it!

[allyc31]

Cleon,

Do you have any thoughts on how to improve the Important Matches stat?

I think i read somewhere that the best way to do it is to bring the player on in an important match when you're winning.

However, the player i'm looking at is a keeper and that, to me, just screams conceding in the 90th minute.

[Cleon]

Cleon,

Do you have any thoughts on how to improve the Important Matches stat?

I think i read somewhere that the best way to do it is to bring the player on in an important match when you're winning.

However, the player i'm looking at is a keeper and that, to me, just screams conceding in the 90th minute.

It can't be changed without him playing in those games.

[allyc31]

I'll avoid him then as he wasn't the only choice.

As always, cheers

[mikcheck]

Cleon, how would you play that 4-3-3 formation away against a narrow 4-3-1-2 (3 MC, 1 AMC and 2 PL) ? I always have problems when i face that kind of formation.

Thanks.

[mikcheck]

bump for Cleon