shaunwwfc Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I have never been a big fan of tactics in FM. Personally they have held the game back in previous years in all honesty and it has became too much of a chore for me. I finally realised this a fortnight ago when I realised I had played a staggering 522 hours, yet I have not completed one season. Yes, not one season. That is appalling. In Football Manager we are advised and constantly told by the powers that be that to succeed in the game tactically one needs to be both reactive and proactive. Tweak depending on personnel and opposition. However there is a big contradiction and counter production in this in my opinion - it is called "Match Preparation" .. a feature that therefore means anything we change needs to be become familiar to really work to its potential which yes whilst all being good and well, I would be very surprised if Kenny Jackett told my Wolves team to play deeper and more narrow at Gillingham on Friday that the team would need 3 or 4 games to become fully fluid in that area. Isn't that what training is there for? The general trait of actually being a footballer? I actually somewhat think this is kind of insulting from FM. Literally the smallest of tweaks can make a tactic which worked well 1 game ago make the team go completely blind in terms of tactic, only for the team to completely forget the original tactic should you wish to go back! Whilst I appreciate you get 3 tactics to "train", it is just not viable IMO. I mean how much does a change of mentality change a tactic? Tottenham must have changed there mentality arguably about 4 or 5 times against Manchester Utd and got 3 well earned points. In FM "full fat" this just would not be possible. I then steeped upon reading the FMC thread that this mode ignores the "Match preparation" and familiarity with tactics. This was music to my ears and I can honestly say I have learnt more about tactics in the last fortnight in FMC due to being given the FREEDOM and piece of mind that I can tweak things here and there dependant on opposition/injurys/form/morale/match odds etc. The irony of it is, FMC is designed to be streamlined and a "lite" version, yet I have never felt more in control, certainly in 14. FMC for me is the answer tactically. It may not be for everyone else but for those who are having similar struggles I advise you to seriously have a look into FMC if you havent already. I am loving it. I would very much like to hear other peoples view on this too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davestshirt Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I agree with you that tweaking things should have next to zero impact overall on tactical familiarity. I mean, if you play defensively throughout the season, but then try to push forward in the last 10mins to get a result of some sort, it seems odd that it would cause as much tactical mayhem as is implied. Post the 14.2 patch I've discovered that my team has basically gone to cr*p tactically because I've signed a few young players for my U21 and U18 side (as seen in my post here: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/380388-Sudden-Drop-in-Tactical-Familiarity) Keep in mind none of these players was signed for the first team. It's unreal, and I would think, a bug. But it does ruin some of your joy in the game to see stuff like this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 FMC is an excellent game mode, and it irritates me that some people regard it as a weaker game format. Tactically it is the same (thankfully barring the dubious "Tactical Familiarity", which I think is grossly over powered), and as tactics are the core of the game, FMC is a great option. I've played FMC since the FM14 Beta was out, and only reverted back to Simulation Mode in the last fortnight. I switched as I missed the Analysis Tab, and as I think FM14 is pretty hard, I needed all the tools available to work on a new tactic. FMC is brilliant for tactical tinkering and you can progress through seasons so quickly compared to the full fat game. I just felt I needed to see all the stats to iron out holes in a tactic I was working on. When FMC gets some form of Analysis Tab, I'll switch permanently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
furiousuk Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Yeah, I'm a fan of FMC. Partly because I dont have much time to play anymore but mainly because it retains what is a major part of the game for me, tactics and selection. FMC as your 'only' save game is a perfectly fine option, no way it should be relegated to FM-junior status for noobs and the non-committed. It's a full-on game mode that offers a great experience of playing the game. Player progession, tactics, selection, squad building, its all still there and just as fun. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyro Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I have started several FM full saves since FM14 BETA and only got one to the winter break. I started one FMC save recently and just finished season 1. It just...flows... I have had great fun tactically, specifically, as I was able to tweak and change things as needed to get the tactic to work better. If I had done the same in FM full, as I did in my other saves, I would still not have full tactical familiarity. I don't miss the player talks and team talks. I don't miss the press conferences. I don't miss the opposition instructions. I do miss, sometimes, the analysis tabs, tutoring, and specific attribute training. But from the tactical point of view - FMC is brilliant. Even for those who will play FM full in the end, FMC is a great place to start and just try out your tactics. You can tweak and change the general set up until you reach a point where you are satisfied. You can then turn to FM full with that framework in mind and use the analysis tools to refine it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yonko Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I've never tried FMC, but this has got me intrigued and might give it a go. Especially now considering a have a few tactical ideas I what to experiment with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShirazS Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 FMC is really excellent in terms of tactics because when you change something, you immediately see the full effect of those changes on the pitch. The only problem with it, for me, is the lack of a database editor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flere-imsaho Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 A word of caution on "tactical familiarity" in FMC. My first time playing FMC on FM14, a few months into the season I got an achievement for my team becoming completely familiar with 3 tactics. I'm not sure if this is a bug, or reality, to be honest. It could be that while FMC doesn't show tactical familiarity, it still exists behind the scenes. I will say, however, that I still feel as if my team does need some time with a new tactic to get fluid with it. Maybe not as much as "full fat" FM, but still some time (which makes sense). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Tactical Familiarity without doubt does not exist in FMC in any shape or form, so it may be that this achievement is a legacy of some code carried over from the Simulation Mode. It would be handy if you could post your save and an account of what happened in the FMC Bugs Forum, as Lucas Weatherby will probably want to take a look at it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flere-imsaho Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Fair enough, and good to know. I'll post the save file when I have a chance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tieio Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Testing and teaching new people this game has led me to having 5 saves... it is a lot to juggle but I enjoy it and 3 of those saves are FMC, my "main" save that I play for me and not for testing now is FMC. I am confident in saying that at least 50% of users who play it for a couple of seasons will not go back to the full mode full-time. This is a guess and in no way anything I can prove, but this is how much I endorse it and am confident in it. I have been more and more curious from time to time and decided to start a new "full" game save and after a season, I always decide I just don't like it as much as FMC. This is just my opinion: there is Football Manager (FMC to me) and then there is Morale/Press manager ("Full" FM to me). One is a fun football management game and the other is more about stuff I don't care to play a lot of and so far I am finding that most people who try FMC do not miss it. They are both still Football manager, I get it, but one is more about Football and one is more about management... if that makes any sense? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgins Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 I have to agree with you guys, FMC is the real deal for me, it's all about tactics and transfers and leave the boring things (and poorly implemented) like media & players interaction behind, it's fast & fun. I can focus on the tactical side of the game without having to waste time answering to silly and repetitive questions or trying to motivate lazy players during odd team-talks. I'd like to have more control on training, to say the truth the whole training area should be revamped, I miss the chance to teach PPM's to my players, for example, but I'm sure more features will be added in the future. FMC is CM 01-02 on steroids for me, it brings back all the fun, just try it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lpichette Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I have never tried fmc before and from what I hear you cant train or tutor your players? That would leave out too much for me if thats the case. Everything else sounds like a treat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgins Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I have never tried fmc before and from what I hear you cant train or tutor your players? That would leave out too much for me if thats the case. Everything else sounds like a treat. There's no individual training, you still have some sort of control over general training. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torskus77 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 If they added the analysis tools, I'd probably play it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
heron Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I've just only started my first game on the "full" FM, while all my earlier games were in FMC. I found I was missing the analyses capabilities of full FM. But right now I'm in November of the first season and I'm already longing back to the speed of FMC. All the extra features like press conference, team talks, et cetera are taking up way too much time. If only they'd enable the analysis tab in FMC... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaunwwfc Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 Glad to see I am not the only one who thinks this way then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkillfulSpence Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 A word of caution on "tactical familiarity" in FMC. My first time playing FMC on FM14, a few months into the season I got an achievement for my team becoming completely familiar with 3 tactics.I'm not sure if this is a bug, or reality, to be honest. It could be that while FMC doesn't show tactical familiarity, it still exists behind the scenes. I will say, however, that I still feel as if my team does need some time with a new tactic to get fluid with it. Maybe not as much as "full fat" FM, but still some time (which makes do the AI have the same problems with tactical familiarity? If so then is there a problem? I would love to see a mode that showed what the AI was doing, maybe it would teach us all a thing or two! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ifinnem Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Haven't actually tried it since FM13 but as someone who likes to progress quickly I would be super excited about FMC if it had individual training, tutoring and analysis tab elements Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bababooey Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 FMC is a brilliant game mode, and I dabble with it on occasion but I really miss the analysis tab greatly. I hate not having that extra level of information available to me. But the idea that there is no restrictive "tactical familiarity" is just lovely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Ace Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 If they added the analysis tools, I'd probably play it. I play FMC exclusively but I do miss that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I've been following Ackter's Messi thread, and frankly the speed at which he is flying through games has convinced me to go back to FMC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Lucas Posted January 7, 2014 Administrators Share Posted January 7, 2014 A word of caution on "tactical familiarity" in FMC. My first time playing FMC on FM14, a few months into the season I got an achievement for my team becoming completely familiar with 3 tactics.I'm not sure if this is a bug, or reality, to be honest. It could be that while FMC doesn't show tactical familiarity, it still exists behind the scenes. I will say, however, that I still feel as if my team does need some time with a new tactic to get fluid with it. Maybe not as much as "full fat" FM, but still some time (which makes sense). Tactical Familiarity without doubt does not exist in FMC in any shape or form, so it may be that this achievement is a legacy of some code carried over from the Simulation Mode.It would be handy if you could post your save and an account of what happened in the FMC Bugs Forum, as Lucas Weatherby will probably want to take a look at it. Yeah we're aware of the achievement occurring when in FMC that way, but didn't want to penalize FMC users being unable to gain an achievement simply because they weren't playing FM and the feature was removed. It's simply a consequence of Tactical Familiarity in FMC being 100% all the time, so in effect, it's not really ín the game as it's always maxed out. You should still see better results if you remain consistent with your tactics, but you won't be penalized if you change them every game or so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flere-imsaho Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Thanks for the clarification, Lucas! SI's reasoning seems very sound in this case. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Football Manager. Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 There's no team talks are there in FMC? If there were team talks so I could feel like I could change a game not exactly going my way in a way other than tactics , I would probably shift over permanently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yonko Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I've been following Ackter's Messi thread, and frankly the speed at which he is flying through games has convinced me to go back to FMC. Yeah, I'm following that thread too and this is also convincing me to try FMC. The only problem left is that I can't find a decent dark skin for FMC. Do you know any? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Yeah, I'm following that thread too and this is also convincing me to try FMC. The only problem left is that I can't find a decent dark skin for FMC. Do you know any? I haven't looked into one, as I find the default FMC one is really good. The problem is that a less used game mode will attract fewer skin makers, so unless there's anything in the Skinning Forum or on Steam Workshop, I have no suggestions I'm afraid, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
janeka Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 For me the only thing that is missing in FMC is the training part. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alinp Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I'm using FMC for my Rafa save & loving it. It's great to be able to tweak things a bit hear and there and not have to wait half a dozen games to see the effect - you see it there and then in the match you're actually in. I never used the analysis tab as much as many, tending to watch matches to see what was happening for myself, so that aspect makes no difference really for me (it's not that difficult to spot 2 players on top of each other without the need of a heat map ), but I do miss being able to train PPM's & new positions. I also actually miss OI's though as occasionally I would use these to target specific players and although I can still put a man on their star man, it's not got the same flexibility. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bababooey Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I posted about this earlier but I'll add a little more.. FMC definitely forces you to make a stronger effort to watch what is going on, and take note of it. It's sort of like, when you watch Mourinho manage he's got his little notebook and pen. FMC is so incredibly streamlined and fast, making tactics is actually FUN because you can test them out easily, and not have to worry about familiarity screwing things up. This is honestly the best part IMO. Tactically speaking everything is the same as the full career mode so, I don't see anything to be too excited over in that respect but. The key is obviously having the freedom to do whatever you want on a game to game basis. It's really very helpful because you've got the freedom to try new things and learn what everything does. So if you've got a scheme in your head, just load up FMC and try it out. The full game mode doesn't really do it for me anymore now that I've been playing FMC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bababooey Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Need to try this then I guess. So tactically it's essentially the same? Ideally I'd like to use it to quickly try out tactics in different scenarios (big teams, small teams, etc.) that I could use later in the full game. Honestly I always thought that FMC would be a quick testing thing, and now I'm playing it 100% instead of thinking of switching back to full mode. Tactically it is all the same. The only difference is there is NO tactical familiarity, and you can only have 1 tactic loaded on the screen. But obviously you can save as many tactics as you want so, it's easy to switch tactics if you need to before a match or whatever. You just can't click through them quickly like you do on full mode, between the 3. It's just lovely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvatarST Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I like FMC. I have two saves; one in FMC which I use to "test" my tactics as I can quickly cycle through different options and tweak around without worrying about tactical familiarity and such things. Once I'm happy with how I have my team playing under a given tactic, I move it to my main save on full FM. I've yet to go for a full fledged FMC game but it is definitely fun. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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