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Cleon

Ajax – When The Real World Meets Football Manager FM14

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Thanks for the quick response. Being an American, i don't post too much because i am intimidated by everyone's vastly superior tactical knowledge, so let me ask a few more while i have my courage up. What do you consider crazy amount? 2-3x value? Or is that being unrealistic? I know it also depends on the player.

Also, what formation have you been working with on this save? I have been messing about with a 4-3-3 with a flat midfield and inside forward wingers, and a 4-3-3 with a DM against tougher sides. Success has been good so far. Because of these scope of this thread, i will understand if you don't want to go down this rabbit hole.

For the past two years, i have searching g for a different style of game other than my usual long term Liverpool save, and this thread has me highly intrigued. In my opinion, this is the best thread onthe forum. Thanks for letting a tactical noob such as myself pick your brain!

The tactic I use is the 41221 and is very similar to the one I posted about a bit further down the page the Understanding Your Tactic thread. Have a look through that and it should explain most things about how I play :)

As for what makes me sell in terms of money, well if I have a player and he's worth £4 million and a club offer me £30 million, to me that's a crazy bid. Plus I will try and sell players before they hit 27 years old just so I can continute to blood youths. So with that in mind when I see someone bid a good offer I just accept with this in mind :)

Don't be intimidated to post btw, everyone is welcome regardless of knowledge :)

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In general how big must your first team squad be to be competitive and develop youth (could you also give me a break down of the number of players per position and youth)?

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In general how big must your first team squad be to be competitive and develop youth (could you also give me a break down of the number of players per position and youth)?

If you read the thread you'd know the answer to how many players per position I have. Sorry if it seems harsh but I'd rather you read the thread than me just give you the answer ;)

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Cleon just got a quick question,

Do you know the order of the coach's feedback on development in terms of most development?

Eg.

Player x as improved a lot as a footballer

Player y as improved significantly footballer

Player z as improved as a footballer

What are all of them and which one signals the most development?

Posted this earlier but don't know if you saw it as you seem very busy.

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Posted this earlier but don't know if you saw it as you seem very busy.

I was away for a few days :)

Significantly

Improved A lot

Improved

In that order. You can tell which is the better with the wording :)

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If you read the thread you'd know the answer to how many players per position I have. Sorry if it seems harsh but I'd rather you read the thread than me just give you the answer ;)

I have read it before but I only see you mention 16 players for the youth team, so I would have to make an assumption that is is also 16 for the first team too means that they are a total of 32 players developing at your club. Which would mean 16 first team players with some youth players in and out of the team making up the rest of those temporary spots, which would mean you dont have an exact first team number, and this is the exact number that i am looking for but cannot find it. I am also making an assumption that because of the verstality requirements of the players you may end up with 6 players per each individual positon which includes both youth and first team . For it seems to me that your first team doesn't have a maximum size. Which can cause problems in player development for you you at times have many players that are ready for first team but cant get the full first team season because you have players in the first team that are still developing and you will end up lowering your selling age of 28 to accomdate date these players. So you may end up selling players at age 22-24 eventually. So now i hope you can understand ,why I have asking for an exact number because I am very confused as to how may first team players you truly have and how many players per position for it is very confusing for me, because there is no exact information in your opening post regarding this ?

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Hi Cleon, after following this thread for a while I started a new save with Ajax as well. It's so much fun developing young players without pressure (cant do it with my old Arsenal as even the most talented youths had to compete with the likes of Neymar).

Like you, I fired pretty much everyone, got the board to increase the # of coaches and at least the first team have 4* coaches across the board. A little dissapointed that Berkhamp's stats are so poor.

Due to the poor nature of Ajax's FB, I decided to go with a 3-4-1-2 formation as I thought it was a good counter against the continental 4-3-3 specially if you are the superior team in the league.

Let's see how it goes!

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I have read it before but I only see you mention 16 players for the youth team, so I would have to make an assumption that is is also 16 for the first team too means that they are a total of 32 players developing at your club. Which would mean 16 first team players with some youth players in and out of the team making up the rest of those temporary spots, which would mean you dont have an exact first team number, and this is the exact number that i am looking for but cannot find it. I am also making an assumption that because of the verstality requirements of the players you may end up with 6 players per each individual positon which includes both youth and first team . For it seems to me that your first team doesn't have a maximum size. Which can cause problems in player development for you you at times have many players that are ready for first team but cant get the full first team season because you have players in the first team that are still developing and you will end up lowering your selling age of 28 to accomdate date these players. So you may end up selling players at age 22-24 eventually. So now i hope you can understand ,why I have asking for an exact number because I am very confused as to how may first team players you truly have and how many players per position for it is very confusing for me, because there is no exact information in your opening post regarding this ?

I actually do mention it in the opening posts so there is exact info on this already;

As you'll have read from the development bit slightly further up, I will be applying the same logic as the youth team in terms of players. So I'll be following this;

Every Ajax youth eleven has 16 players. There are 2 goalkeepers. Four righ tfooted players are selected for positions 2, 6, and 7 (right back, right midfield, right wing fwd), Four left footed players for positions 5, 8 and 11 (left back, left midfield, left forward), Three players for 3 and 4 (central defenders) and finally three players for 9 and 10 (striker and shadow striker). This applies from the Under 10 team up to the first eleven. During the players’ development, therefore, they play in the two or three positions within the team for which they have been selected.

I won't end up selling my players earlier than I planned at all (unless I get an offer that is hard to refuse) because I plan properly so I have players at different ages to stop this happening. The key is to not over buy/develop too many players as the problems you mention above would happen. 32 players isn't much especially when you are competiting and been successful. I have around 22 players who can actually play regular first team and have developed really well. But there not all superstars yet and still need to be developed a good 2-3 more years yet are already making around 15 apperances a season. The other 10 are nowhere near ready yet but when they are my older players will be around 27-28 so can be sold.

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Hi Cleon, after following this thread for a while I started a new save with Ajax as well. It's so much fun developing young players without pressure (cant do it with my old Arsenal as even the most talented youths had to compete with the likes of Neymar).

Like you, I fired pretty much everyone, got the board to increase the # of coaches and at least the first team have 4* coaches across the board. A little dissapointed that Berkhamp's stats are so poor.

Due to the poor nature of Ajax's FB, I decided to go with a 3-4-1-2 formation as I thought it was a good counter against the continental 4-3-3 specially if you are the superior team in the league.

Let's see how it goes!

Ajax have good fullbacks :confused:

Bergkamp's stats improve quite a bit so don't be too hasty sacking him :)

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Do you find it really hard to get people to be U18 coaches? I am finding it almost impossible

I did at the start but now I just search for coaches and then sort by club job and approach the u18 coaches.

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Yeah but then you won;t be able to use the filters to fine tune the search...:-(, an alternative I may try is just to push the good U15s into the reserve team so they can be coached by them, if you look at the stars for the coaches between Senior side and U18s, the same coach may get 5 for seniors but 2 for U18s. I assume thats because they are dual hatting.

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I was away for a few days :)

Significantly

Improved A lot

Improved

In that order. You can tell which is the better with the wording :)

What about remarkably and "Leaps and Bounds"?

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What about remarkably and "Leaps and Bounds"?

Remarkably would be top because it means out side of the normal, so in other words it means extraordinary, remarkable, exceptional and so on. Then it would be leaps and bounds.

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I've only had 1 player ask for that so far so its not been too bad in all honesty. But as I'm winning the Champs League fairly often I think that's about to change. I still have Eriksen though on 22k a week :cool:

I've got Eriksen and Alderwereld both on £20,000, and Adryan on £18,500, but all are tied down until 2018 so I have a bit of time to decide what i want to do - sell them or change my wage structure to keep.

And stop mentioning the Champions League. So far in three seasons I've only made it past the group stage once. :(

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Still trying to implement this theory/style with Rangers but due to the current predicament i cant hire that great a range of coaches. Also the lack of funds at the end of each season means i cant improve facilities, hopefully in the SPL it gets better.

I have managed to get a few of the youngsters doing well and might even see a few from the start make the SPL, something that happened to only 1 player in my 1st save.

On a side note i hired most of the tutors you did in the 1st season in Scottish div 3. Interestingly they did quite well and played about 15 games each, thus i extended them for 1 more year. they will be retired, hopefully as coaches for me, at end of season 2

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Still trying to implement this theory/style with Rangers but due to the current predicament i cant hire that great a range of coaches. Also the lack of funds at the end of each season means i cant improve facilities, hopefully in the SPL it gets better.

I have managed to get a few of the youngsters doing well and might even see a few from the start make the SPL, something that happened to only 1 player in my 1st save.

On a side note i hired most of the tutors you did in the 1st season in Scottish div 3. Interestingly they did quite well and played about 15 games each, thus i extended them for 1 more year. they will be retired, hopefully as coaches for me, at end of season 2

Sometimes that is the best way of getting coaches by using older players who are at the club.

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Just beginning my third season with Rangers and just noticed that since the second season my under-19s have had no league to play in. The same goes for all SPL clubs.

Would I be better off promoting my under-19 squad to the reserves, so they can reap the benefits of full-time training, in this scenario?

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Just beginning my third season with Rangers and just noticed that since the second season my under-19s have had no league to play in. The same goes for all SPL clubs.

Would I be better off promoting my under-19 squad to the reserves, so they can reap the benefits of full-time training, in this scenario?

Aye I would :)

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Figured as much.

Bloody annoying though. I just signed an absolutely brilliant under-19s manager. :(

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How come you haven't got a league?

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I have no idea. I know something vaguely about the SPL under-19s league being scrapped. That shouldn't apply to me though.

My under-19s did compete in a league when I was in the third division, which makes it all the more confusing.

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Soo, what does that mean exactly? If you get your hands on a player that's is exceptionally talented, but doesn't really fit any of the roles in your current tactic exactly, does that mean that you'll "shoehorn" him into the "closest role", or do you not bother with him at all? Or do you adapt your tactic?

Wouldn't it be better to turn a player into the best that he can be, and then try to adapt the tactic (using the smallest changes possible) to fit the players that you actually have at your disposal?

The reason I ask is because I just recently acquired an exceptionally bright talent, but he really doesn't fit the bill when it comes to my tactics. He's much more of a Ibrahimovic-like technically gifted, yet big and strong guy, whereas I use two quick and mobile attackers at present. Still, I imagine that I can find a good way of fitting him into the starting line-up when the time comes... wouldn't you?

In the case of Ajax, the current philosophy is to grow player then sell for profit, almost like farming. You simply dont have the luxury of developing an exceptional player, and spending the money or time to grow the other 10 other players to revolve around a single person for the purpose of being a dominant team.

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Also in real life Ajax will always play 4-3-3. They have a footballing philosophy that everybody must follow, so it's always a case of players adapting to the tactic and never the other way around.

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Cleon, how much attention do you pay to your staff's opinion of a players' PA?

I've just sold someone at a Net loss of £6m having trained him for 4 years.

He did a job and was improving but had some clear attribute deficiencies, and my staff all rated him at just 2.5* PA, which is criminal for my team.

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Cleon, how much attention do you pay to your staff's opinion of a players' PA?

I've just sold someone at a Net loss of £6m having trained him for 4 years.

He did a job and was improving but had some clear attribute deficiencies, and my staff all rated him at just 2.5* PA, which is criminal for my team.

I ignore it. All that is important for me is he has the required attributes to play the position I need him to.

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I ignore it. All that is important for me is he has the required attributes to play the position I need him to.

That's what I figured, this guy didn't, but still contributed well and got good ratings in spite of the attributes, and I sold him anyway - slight pang of regret but I've got a replacement.

I guess you win some and lose some with player development - this is him, not good enough at dribbling, crossing, low stamina and poor off the ball, but not bad for a wing back:

BorisSommers_OverviewProfile_zps0f9c12b5.png:

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That's what I figured, this guy didn't, but still contributed well and got good ratings in spite of the attributes, and I sold him anyway - slight pang of regret but I've got a replacement.

I guess you win some and lose some with player development - this is him, not good enough at dribbling, crossing, low stamina and poor off the ball, but not bad for a wing back:

BorisSommers_OverviewProfile_zps0f9c12b5.png:

Once you've defined your style and set up how the players should look and what attributes they need it can seem rather ruthless at times when you let good players leave who were doing an okay job.

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I have no idea. I know something vaguely about the SPL under-19s league being scrapped. That shouldn't apply to me though.

My under-19s did compete in a league when I was in the third division, which makes it all the more confusing.

No, it was the reserve league that was scrapped. Then this season, the U19's league changed to a U20's league with 3 senior players allowed to play in these match squads too.

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I've been basing my training schedule on what i've read from this thread but some of my players are complaining about too low training:

Balanced - Low Intensity

Match Training slider is 2 clicks from the right. So there's some match preparation.

Resting before and after matches.

High Intensity focus for all players.

Where am i going wrong? Should i be resting players before and after matches? I don't have the biggest squad so i'm a bit concerned about picking up injuries in key positions.

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I only allow rest after a match.

Why would you pick up injuries? Plus I don't know what you mean by how are you going wrong? You've not mention what the problem is....

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I only allow rest after a match.

Why would you pick up injuries? Plus I don't know what you mean by how are you going wrong? You've not mention what the problem is....

Sorry, forgot to mention the problem. My players are complaining about not having enough training.

I was under the impression that a higher workload meant that players were more at risk from injuries. It's currently saying 'Medium' for all my players at the minute.

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Sorry, forgot to mention the problem. My players are complaining about not having enough training.

I was under the impression that a higher workload meant that players were more at risk from injuries. It's currently saying 'Medium' for all my players at the minute.

Aslong as you feel the players are improving the complaining can be ignored. This normally happens due to them been professional and having strong personality types.

You aren't training them on a high workload though so they'll be fine. High workloads can result in more tired players which can lead to more injuries from matches and players picking up knocks. The method I do is the best way to develop players though as it takes those risks away without missing out from any individual training.

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ive been lurking around for quite some time and i have a quiestion about youth intake and scouting.

the youth intake can usually be hit and miss so it is essential to bring good youth players yourself. i play with simplified star ratings (only 1,3 and 5 stars on scout report to make game more interesting as i feel scouting is tad bit overpowered in fm) so i cant judge players before they hit 18 yrs as majority is 3 star players who could actualy be 4,5 or 2,5.

if i recall well Cleon, youve mentioned that you scout regions, but wherever i scout with my Montpellier team all the players wont come to my team before they are 18 years old which is quite late to properly develop them. is it tied to EU nationalities or what?

Soem nations can't have players leave until they turn 18. I did touch upon this earlier in the thread. I don't scout those regions or waste my time with them. That's why I don't scout Argentina, Brazil etc.

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Well it is my more experienced players that are complaining so the personality thing makes sense. I'll just make them train the day before the match and see if that shuts them up.

Thanks for your help and great thread.:thup:

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Well it is my more experienced players that are complaining so the personality thing makes sense. I'll just make them train the day before the match and see if that shuts them up.

Thanks for your help and great thread.:thup:

Don't forget you can set individual workloads to heavy.

I personally set everyone to heavy and ignore their complaints.

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I noticed that while setting up my training schedules for the next season, that I can only train 4 players in preferred moves at the same time. Is this limited to the number of coaches I have (also 4)?

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I noticed that while setting up my training schedules for the next season, that I can only train 4 players in preferred moves at the same time. Is this limited to the number of coaches I have (also 4)?

Not as far as I know. Are you sure the other players aren't tutoring or been tutored? Because you can't do both at the same time.

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Don't forget you can set individual workloads to heavy.

I personally set everyone to heavy and ignore their complaints.

It's a good thing if they complain about doing too little - it means they have a good personality and want to working more. :thup:

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It's a good thing if they complain about doing too little - it means they have a good personality and want to working more. :thup:

I know, I was talking about the shirking pansies who claim to be overworked. Everyone in my squad knows they've done a days work!

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Cleon how long do you leave these young players in the youth team before moving them to the 1st team/ reserves? Is there a specific age where a young player should be "graduated" so to speak to the senior squad if he has enough potential, even if hes not quite good enough for the first eleven?

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Cleon how long do you leave these young players in the youth team before moving them to the 1st team/ reserves? Is there a specific age where a young player should be "graduated" so to speak to the senior squad if he has enough potential, even if hes not quite good enough for the first eleven?

I think he said that when a player reaches one star of CA then he looks to get them into the first team. I think.

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Cleon how long do you leave these young players in the youth team before moving them to the 1st team/ reserves? Is there a specific age where a young player should be "graduated" so to speak to the senior squad if he has enough potential, even if hes not quite good enough for the first eleven?

I gave all my players (even youth) some kind of game time during a season. I actually don't have a reserve side I use my u18's so they play double the amount of games. I have the tutors in the reserves too but they don't play I make it so they aren't available.

Technically you could say I don't have seperate squads because I filter my youths into the first team. I see it more like I have a squad of players rather than a 1st team, rervers and a youth team.

Even the players who aren't good enough for my first team still get gametime for the last 20 minutes of matches etc. Developing players is more important than the result for me. As you'll see from the Kishna screenshots earlier in the thread, there is no doubt he shouldn't have been in the first team when he was so poor. But as you can see a few seasons in, it pays off for his long term development.

After all that though, I guess its down to you and how risky you want to play. I like taking risks though and pushing boundaries :D

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Managing Ajax is giving me such a headache, you start off with so many players initially, all in hard to remember dutch name (for an American :p), not enough game to give everyone game time, and can barely find good tutors with high reputation.

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Soem nations can't have players leave until they turn 18. I did touch upon this earlier in the thread. I don't scout those regions or waste my time with them. That's why I don't scout Argentina, Brazil etc.

I don't know if you still can, but I used to scout for South American players that had an EU nation as a second nationality so they could come whenever.

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Not as far as I know. Are you sure the other players aren't tutoring or been tutored? Because you can't do both at the same time.

Yeah, you're right, the other players I tried were already being tutored.

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Great thread. The problem in-game is that staff who were hired specifically by Ajax to tutor young players, such as Bergkamp, Jaap Stam, Richard Witschge, (highly experienced ex-players), can't be instructed to tutor young players. The way you had to solve this problem is an artificial construct (and very un-Ajax), buying all these old players for tutoring. Hopefully in a next version there will be more possible with hired staff.

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I do state in the OP due to restrictions I can't stick strictly to the Ajax way because after all this is just a game and rather limited.

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