Football Manager 2014 - Update 14.2.2 - Feedback Thread

[Fabio2013]

Even after this patch I find serious problems to ME, so I think FM14 still unplayable. I hope that, as usual, will be resolved with the next mega-patch.

[Leon_fogo]

A key thing, the match engine can not be good, is very weak by sign ... everything else has to be the best ever!

Please consult each injury is very annoying because you buy the player and it hurts 3, 4 months, or in the preseason with good coaches and it hurts for a long time

[forameuss]

The point was that any decent home PC running a top-level chess engine would be able to at least compete with Deep Blue thanks to the technology advances in accordance with Moore's Law. Forameuss jumped to your defence with some attack on me based on conjecture and bluster. I pointed out that FM14 was basically a simple logic programme, that it wasn't some high-level design that required to decipher something tricky like human emotion. I was nowhere near suggesting it did, in-fact I clearly stated the opposite. To try and then ridicule me for using chess & Deep Blue as an example when it is 1 of the most famous examples of advancement in computer technology. Chess is one, if not the most, complex game in the World. It's why IBM chose to focus on it as a means to promote the power of their computers. In fact there are over 300 billion possible positions after just four moves apiece.

'Foresight'/ 'learning', is exactly what AI is and has been in games for years, in fact I'm sure it's built into FM14. Does the game not learn your tactics and then have the foresight to counter them? Anyhoos, I'm not here to argue. I actually agreed that the AI in the game needs improvement, I just think the technology exists to do it now and is not some fantasy.

Aye, conjecture and bluster. Whereas yours is based on, what exactly? Hope?

I didn't ridicule anything, I just said it wasn't comparable. Which it isn't. Not really sure what there is to argue about that. Maybe if chess had hundreds of players, all playing simultaneously, then it would be. But it isn't. I'm pretty sure SI have said that the AI doesn't learn your tactics, although not 100% on that. What games exactly use learning in their AI? And by learning, I mean a truly dynamic agent that can make up completely new behaviour that hasn't been coded in some way, based on your input. If there are some, go on and point them out, I'm curious.

[buddiemirren]

Aye, conjecture and bluster. Whereas yours is based on, what exactly? Hope?

I didn't ridicule anything, I just said it wasn't comparable. Which it isn't. Not really sure what there is to argue about that. Maybe if chess had hundreds of players, all playing simultaneously, then it would be. But it isn't. I'm pretty sure SI have said that the AI doesn't learn your tactics, although not 100% on that. What games exactly use learning in their AI? And by learning, I mean a truly dynamic agent that can make up completely new behaviour that hasn't been coded in some way, based on your input. If there are some, go on and point them out, I'm curious.

"You say the AI should be able to compete with a human, then say that there's no need for anything like human emotion to be coded in? Wit?"

"Using Deep Blue as an example is pretty ridiculous."

I'd suggest actually using the word ridiculous to describe someone's actions is about as close to ridicule as you can get, the first quote is just a total fabrication of what I said but it's the 'wit?' at the end that displays your intent. Even at the start of your response you have a laughing face emoticon and some childish statement about my opinion being based on hope. I also never attacked anyone, I asked if we could have any facts to back up his finite statement or where we just to accept it as fact? Then used examples and facts to show I differed from his stated opinion. Anyhoos....

Admittedly I read about the game responding to your tactics on the review on IGN but if your pretty sure otherwise;

'Improvements to rival managers’ AI allow them to adapt their tactics more readily over time' IGN

"What games exactly use learning in their AI? And by learning, I mean a truly dynamic agent that can make up completely new behaviour that hasn't been coded in some way, based on your input. If there are some, go on and point them out, I'm curious."

I'm not sure what you're looking for me to do here, are you actually asking me to provide examples where a game isn't artificially intelligent but is actually intelligent? That is what you're asking right? Talk about rewriting history to suit your prejudices.

There is plenty examples and discussion on the web for you but if you need direction,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_intelligence_(video_games),

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2013/04/08/whatever-happened-to-video-game-ai,

http://gamingbolt.com/is-this-one-of-the-best-displays-of-ai-in-video-games,

http://www.expressandstar.com/comment/2011/02/02/fighting-back-how-computer-game-opponents-learn-from-how-you-play/

Anyhoos, as I said I'm not here to get involved in some school playground bullying incident. So feel fine to continue your behaviour on here with your wee clique of pals. I'm out of this, I just wanted to help discuss and hopefully improve the game but I'm fed up with the behaviour of the anointed on here at the expense of the masses.

Whoever the Mod on here is Ban me please, or at least point me in the direction of how to deactivate my account.

[RTHerringbone]

Whoever the Mod on here is Ban me please, or at least point me in the direction of how to deactivate my account.

Just exercise restraint and don't log on until this particular cycle of nonsense ends.

You provided some of the best feedback of the entire thread a day or two ago

[forameuss]

"You say the AI should be able to compete with a human, then say that there's no need for anything like human emotion to be coded in? Wit?"

"Using Deep Blue as an example is pretty ridiculous."

I'd suggest actually using the word ridiculous to describe someone's actions is about as close to ridicule as you can get, the first quote is just a total fabrication of what I said but it's the 'wit?' at the end that displays your intent. Even at the start of your response you have a laughing face emoticon and some childish statement about my opinion being based on hope. I also never attacked anyone, I asked if we could have any facts to back up his finite statement or where we just to accept it as fact? Then used examples and facts to show I differed from his stated opinion. Anyhoos....

Admittedly I read about the game responding to your tactics on the review on IGN but if your pretty sure otherwise;

'Improvements to rival managers’ AI allow them to adapt their tactics more readily over time' IGN

"What games exactly use learning in their AI? And by learning, I mean a truly dynamic agent that can make up completely new behaviour that hasn't been coded in some way, based on your input. If there are some, go on and point them out, I'm curious."

I'm not sure what you're looking for me to do here, are you actually asking me to provide examples where a game isn't artificially intelligent but is actually intelligent? That is what you're asking right? Talk about rewriting history to suit your prejudices.

There is plenty examples and discussion on the web for you but if you need direction,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_intelligence_(video_games),

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2013/04/08/whatever-happened-to-video-game-ai,

http://gamingbolt.com/is-this-one-of-the-best-displays-of-ai-in-video-games,

http://www.expressandstar.com/comment/2011/02/02/fighting-back-how-computer-game-opponents-learn-from-how-you-play/

Anyhoos, as I said I'm not here to get involved in some school playground bullying incident. So feel fine to continue your behaviour on here with your wee clique of pals. I'm out of this, I just wanted to help discuss and hopefully improve the game but I'm fed up with the behaviour of the anointed on here at the expense of the masses.

Whoever the Mod on here is Ban me please, or at least point me in the direction of how to deactivate my account.

Going from having a discussion to wanting yourself banned in three posts? Is that not over-reacting a little? Alright, describing it as ridiculous was maybe a bit of hyperbole, hold my hands up to that. But really, it's hardly the worst thing anyone's ever said to anyone. Describing it as playground bullying? Come on...

When I asked for those examples, I was genuinely curious, as I said. Interesting links you've provided, cheers. Like I said, I could've been wrong about the AI adapting tactics, because I was sure I'd heard a mod or a dev say something along those lines. Again, I said I could have been wrong.

My whole point, ages ago now, was that the AI is still following a script at the end of the day, and not really learning. (that's what I meant with the examples btw, despite you again going on a massive defensive). If it stays like that, the user will always be able to adapt far better than the AI, because there is a limit to the behaviour programmed. That's where, ideally, they'd need to be programming some kind of behaviour to mimic common sense, which is often the big challenge for AI programs.

In short, yes there are technologies out there that display learning AI, and I would love there to be something like that in place for FM, but with how complex the system is, and how many agents within it, the technology we have now is going to be very tough to implement in FM, and is probably many years away. Which was the point I was getting at.

It could be a good discussion topic to be honest, and you sound like you know what you're talking about, so apologies for sounding like I was getting at you.

[Johnyfooty]

Also ,every match seems to start with the team that kicks off wasting their possession with a long range kick that goes straight to a goal kick.

Not "every" in the absolute sense, but a very big majority. I'd say 7 or 8 out of 10.

[pret]

Winning the Super Cup, Community Shield, Club World Cup, League Cup and Premier League does not count as a 'quintuple'. It barely counts as a double. Something that's bothered me for ages.

[DirkDiggler]

Why haven't you been able to play the game?

Crash dump error. http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/381461-crash-dump

[themadsheep2001]

Crash dump error. http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/381461-crash-dump

Just had a look that thread, that's incredibly unfortunate.

[mortiis7]

isnt this too much of goals???

in all other leagues there are not enough of goals and always in league that I AM playing there are just too much of them...

in lower leagues where quality of football os very low it should be like this...instead in 6.german league there are very occasionally results like 1-0 and 0-0

[Äktsjon Männ]

The main problem I see with the above screenshot is that there is not a noticeable enough difference in goal scoring between the top and bottom half of the league. I mean, only three teams in the bottom half scoring less than 60 goals? In a league where only 4 teams managed to score over 60 in the real life 2012/2013 season? Surely something worth looking at I think.

[Matej]

Speaking of which, once you're settled at a club, you're pretty much untouchable anyways. Board takeovers cleaning "old dust" has never happened to me personally, or the club deciding it was time to part ways and replace me with a manager of higher stature, or similar. I know it's supposed to be a game and fun and by far the most popular mode of play seems to be taking obscure clubs (or your favourite) and sticking with it for a hundred seasons. But after a while in most cases the boards are set up in a way real managers can only dream about. So of course as a human player you never feel pushed to consider spending your budget on the long-term (i.e. young talent), as short-term your job is often just not much up for debate.

Coupled with the AI not catching up, a save often is but a test in patience unless you get the sack early. That is for club management, naturally. An international manager has to work with what he's given. And for clubs, depending on the club and country, eventually you'll hit a ceiling (reputation, etc.). But more likely you'll hit it at some point, if it exists. The entire argument that picking clubs to a large extent would determine difficulty has always been moot, except that it was made harder gradually to bolster lower league squads, which historically has not been not much trouble at all. It had never been a matter of difficulty, rather of time and patience.

Last sentence best describes what i was saying years ago. And since i was writing " game is too easy threads " , 10 years ago, nothing has changed. I am really surprised that milnerpoint find game too easy after couple of seasons, he was usually happy with difficulty. This year, i start to play with Wolves in Sky bet L. 1. In my 3rd season im in Premiership with ok players, nothing special , with no money. BUt hey, after 8 Prem. games, i have 7 wins and just 1 lost game, against Man. City away ( lost 1-4, they where really better then me). So of course game is too easy milnerpoint and company, im saying that for 20 years, but when we need to raise our voice, usually some SI lovers say game difficulty is ok.

I dont play with Wolves anymore, because im 2nd after 8 rounds, just Man. Utd have 1 point more then me. I know how the story goes, i dont need to see the ending. im playing this game for 20 years and ive been there.

WHat we do need is game difficulty. Put that AI cheats on hard mode, i dont care. Let them have moral superb and all attributes 1 point more everytime they play against human, i dont care. just give us challenge. And please dont say start with low club, it has nothing to do with that, like smart Svenc said before me, " It had never been a matter of difficulty, rather of time and patience". I start with low l. club 100s of times, i know what i am talking about.

p.s. Best save i had in last 15 years, was in FM 12, when i used FMRTE ( now we have In game editor) , and i manually change every AI player in Premiership to have great great attributes. But thats LOT of work( i think i was working on that for 2 days, 8 hours per day) , im to lazy to do that in FM14, even i bought Editor. And then every transfer window, change ratings of players AI bought. Thats the best advice i can give you, if you find the game too easy. SI could do so much more about this problem, but they refuse to make game smart, god forbid to put some difficulty levels. Thats big no no for them ( even its normal in almost every other computer game) .

[Preveza]

Last sentence best describes what i was saying years ago. And since i was writing " game is too easy threads " , 10 years ago, nothing has changed. I am really surprised that milnerpoint find game too easy after couple of seasons, he was usually happy with difficulty. This year, i start to play with Wolves in Sky bet L. 1. In my 3rd season im in Premiership with ok players, nothing special , with no money. BUt hey, after 8 Prem. games, i have 7 wins and just 1 lost game, against Man. City away ( lost 1-4, they where really better then me). So of course game is too easy milnerpoint and company, im saying that for 20 years, but when we need to raise our voice, usually some SI lovers say game difficulty is ok.

I dont play with Wolves anymore, because im 2nd after 8 rounds, just Man. Utd have 1 point more then me. I know how the story goes, i dont need to see the ending. im playing this game for 20 years and ive been there.

WHat we do need is game difficulty. Put that AI cheats on hard mode, i dont care. Let them have moral superb and all attributes 1 point more everytime they play against human, i dont care. just give us challenge. And please dont say start with low club, it has nothing to do with that, like smart Svenc said before me, " It had never been a matter of difficulty, rather of time and patience". I start with low l. club 100s of times, i know what i am talking about.

p.s. Best save i had in last 15 years, was in FM 12, when i used FMRTE ( now we have In game editor) , and i manually change every AI player in Premiership to have great great attributes. But thats LOT of work( i think i was working on that for 2 days, 8 hours per day) , im to lazy to do that in FM14, even i bought Editor. And then every transfer window, change ratings of players AI bought. Thats the best advice i can give you, if you find the game too easy. SI could do so much more about this problem, but they refuse to make game smart, god forbid to put some difficulty levels. Thats big no no for them ( even its normal in almost every other computer game) .

I think this falls back to poor AI squad building. But like forameuss stated earlier in this thread, we are years away from having a super intelligent AI which can match the human player in squad building and other fundamentals. I still hope SI can improve this every year

[stoned_assasin]

I think this falls back to poor AI squad building. But like forameuss stated earlier in this thread, we are years away from having a super intelligent AI which can match the human player in squad building and other fundamentals. I still hope SI can improve this every year

I agree squad building is the biggest problem which is the prime reason the game gets easier the more seasons you have. But why do people seem to think we are years away from this being "fixed" ??

FM squad building is pretty much a spreadsheet numbers crunching game and you people seem to think humans cannot only compete but they can even destroy today's cpu's? Are you guys serious? I mean how hard can it really be for an AI manager to notice that lets say, his box to box midfielder is now getting old and is not the player he used to be and then go out and purchase a better player or player with potential to fit that roll and do it well? it just has to look at 1st the position and then the NUMBERS for said roll and then maybe personality to fit the squad etc. Or in some more stupid cases he can just play the player in the reserves who is already a better player.

For me it seems it should be %100 achievable with today's tech its just about getting the right balance. I got a feeling that maybe the problem we have atm is all to do with reputation. This stat seems to be weighted a tad too high atm (and over the years) and interferes with the ai's squad building. Ofc if you are playing in the prem then the reputation of most clubs in that league will be higher then most other clubs in the whole world so if the ai is basing its transfer polices on rep just as much as about talents then ofc it will struggle to find players to replace the ones it already has.

[El_Capone]

my taste for playing this game over, threw it 14 years, I loved this game, this year you guys were able destroy this game is worth it, I hope that you can improve, until it will not play anymore ... thanks for spoiling one of my favorite hobbies, goodbye FM.

[Svenc]

FM squad building is pretty much a spreadsheet numbers crunching game and you people seem to think humans cannot only compete but they can even destroy today's cpu's? Are you guys serious? I mean how hard can it really be for an AI manager to notice that lets say, his box to box midfielder is now getting old and is not the player he used to be and then go out and purchase a better player or player with potential to fit that roll and do it well? it just has to look at 1st the position and then the NUMBERS for said roll and then maybe personality to fit the squad etc. Or in some more stupid cases he can just play the player in the reserves who is already a better player.

I think it's not that easy (even though it looks as such), as when it comes down to it, you still have tens of thousands of players in a save each on the market, and then the managers, their prefered tactics, formations, styles, etc. There's a lot of data interacting with each other at any time of a save. What I never understood was that reportedly there had been a very tight link between a player's reputation and the AI manager's target range. Meaning that, all the while human players never had an issue with scouting and sucking the Eastern European talent pool dry (f'r instance), the AI didn't even consider due to the player having too lowly a profile. There could have been the next Messi in there, it just wouldn't pick him up because he wasn't playing for a club of some stature yet (and when it did consider, the player was naturally much more expensive). Dunno if it still works that way though.

This is/was likely done to ensure that transfers remain realistic, i.e. imagine the AI behaving like most players do. Most of the transfers probably wouldn't mimic real-life transfers very well, which arguably also ties in to (human) scouting, and the reports almost always being accurate enough to predict who's going to strengthen your squad and who won't. In real-life, going with established players is also kind of the safer bet often out of many options, additionally for many clubs spending a chunk of the budget on higher profile players also assures fans, the media, the board (and sponsorship partners). That also isn't very well reflected in FM, I think. Add to that that managers on average last about two years at a club, which means their job is in doubt for most of the year, this is one of the few jobs on Earth were thousands judge your work day-in day-out (would like to see statistics on that for AI managers in FM, for the human player it is no doubts multiple times longer).

[Jibby123]

Some good points there Svenc.

But I think AI squad building has improved a lot over the versions. The big clubs have remained competitive in my save (I'm 12-13 years in from game start). I compete with the biggest clubs for the best youngsters, they hassle me for my own, and they keep their better prospects better than they once did on previous versions or want crazy, crazy money for them which is how it should be.

Some people say this is game too easy after a few seasons, others complain they just can't find a tactic that works so can't even get past the first few seasons. Getting in the near future a AI that can compete with a human player is tough ask, but I think it's getting closer.

Football is a game of opinions anyway, so keeping everyone happy is never going to work.

[stoned_assasin]

Don't get me wrong i am happy with the game but there are certain areas that disappoint me and squad building is one of them. I'm playing a save with chelmsford atm and whilst enjoying it i will always have that nagging feeling in the back of my mind that once i get to the prem with all my squad building on the way to getting there and the ai's lack of, i will have an unfair advantage.

And Svenc i probably made it sound a lot easier than it actually is but i definitely dont think its impossible to have a considerable improvement with today's tech. For instance the ai dont have to go around looking for players with every click of the button but they can maybe take it in turns per region per month or something.

And speaking of realism when it comes to future transfers/players imo the ai could do what it wants here to a certain extent. I mean who would have thought a year ago that man united's best player this season would be some kid called Januzaj or that arsenal would be spending 40+ million on Ozil etc? The real world seems less realistic than FM atm or is FM trying too hard to be too realistic?

[footballfootball]

I really hope the German transfer bug is fixed soon. It's been a month and a half. It makes me realize how few people must be playing in the german league, because people would be flipping out if it happened in the epl

[Zvone Boban]

I deleted save and don't have SS but:

I play with Milan

first game: 2-1 win vs Real Madrid

second game: 6-0 lost vs Bologna - ****ing Bologna

third game: 2-2 draw vs Juventus

fourth game: 0-2 lost vs Chievo

reason? probably, skin is wrong, i don't know...

[Johnyfooty]

Started a new save. Within the 1st 4 games:

1st game I had an own goal.

2nd game I had an own goal.

3d game AI team had an own goal.

4th game there was no own goal, but there were at least 1 mistake from each team that would lead to an own goal had the GKs not reacted.

So I'll have to agree with everyone who has brought up own goals, even though it did not happen on my previous save.

[Preveza]

Started a new save. Within the 1st 4 games:

1st game I had an own goal.

2nd game I had an own goal.

3d game AI team had an own goal.

4th game there was no own goal, but there were at least 1 mistake from each team that would lead to an own goal had the GKs not reacted.

So I'll have to agree with everyone who has brought up own goals, even though it did not happen on my previous save.

Just wait until the new patch mate. This patch is unplayable for the realistic gamer.

[Football Manager.]

You can do that already, with a lot less control. Just let your director of football go off and do that. You can then marvel at the mix of dross and absolute dross that he brings in among the twelve wingers for a narrow team.

This post is hilarious !

[Svenc]

But I think AI squad building has improved a lot over the versions. The big clubs have remained competitive in my save (I'm 12-13 years in from game start). I compete with the biggest clubs for the best youngsters, they hassle me for my own, and they keep their better prospects better than they once did on previous versions or want crazy, crazy money for them which is how it should be.

Did you promote a club from top to bottom? Previously when you did do such, you continuously had better squads at barely a fraction of the cost of the AI teams. My last rises from 3rd division to Bundesliga in Germany for instance, which where admittedly all from the FM 2011/2012 era, when I got there I paid wages of 6-7 million/year. Typically a Bundesliga team starts at 12-13 million in wages bare minimum. The catch then being that a good chunk of AI teams firstly had lesser players and secondly paid them much much more money. Which meant I was immediately competitive at but a fraction of the cost. The maximum wage budget I was granted didn't touch the minimum budget of the bottom teams of the league for seasons, but that didn't matter really. Can't tell if such is still the case, but giving good prospect four to five years contracts has always been a save bet, as they typically would only ask for an increase in wages when their agents prompted them to it (usually after you neglected an offer for them).

For all the slack the ME gets (deserved and undeserved), it has usually been stuff off the pitch that has personally bugged me more. I actually think it's letting the match sim down rather than the other way around. In parts that is because off the pitch the game can be so inconsistent. When everything else is that impressive (and it mostly is, no doubts about it), it is the less developed areas that stick out all the more. Say, there's this incredibly huge database interacting in unpredictable ways with each save anew. AI managers interact with their own and opposing players plus other managers just as you do, the game keeps track of goals of the month/season/World Cup, of AI manager's press conferences, like all of them. Additionally, if you see Gylfi Sigurdsson on the score sheet somewhere, anywhere, and watch the goal, it's very very likely to be the result of a screamer from yards out or a dfk scored.

But why doesn't anybody ever truly object if you sign as a complete newbie to Barca and put all their stars into the reserves or sell them on your first day on the job. Why is there hardly ever any real pressure from boards/fans/media. No doubt if this was simulated in more detail, the load on computers would increase significantly. For the game treats you no differently than all the AI managers in your save, you aren't the centre piece of this, you're just playing along with a couple thousand other managers that can do whatever you do too and get the response for that as you do. Which is mind-boggling, if you think about it.

As what's happening off the pitch arguably has always favored the human player, it likely is no coincidence that people rather focus on the supposedly keeper glitch that apparently just cost them a final rather than the little idiosyncrasies prior to kick off that helped them to get there in the first place.

[Sussex Hammer]

Why is it (yet again it was the same in 13) that if you leave your Assistant to do the training it "always" stays on attacking movement? Absolutely pointless leaving your Assistant to do anything. Plus DOF doesn't seem as good as in 13. At least in 13 he gave you a few players to sign, in 14 the DOF hasn't done anything bar bringing in Staff - who are usually not much good!!!!

[Dagenham_Dave]

Why is it (yet again it was the same in 13) Plus DOF doesn't seem as good as in 13. At least in 13 he gave you a few players to sign, in 14 the DOF hasn't done anything bar bringing in Staff - who are usually not much good!!!!

If you set your DoF to find and agree terms with players, he'll often find players for your team. Make sure you set it to you having the final say though, as some of his signings are a bit cack.

You can also use him to suggest players in various positions with various transfer statuses in the transfer centre.

I think he's a lot more useful in this game than in FM13.

[CityAndColour]

Unless you're in the lower leagues, when he'll attempt to sign every free agent and player available for loan in the entire country on deadline day.

I think my current record is canceling 18 deals on the one day, just one after the other.

[forameuss]

Just wait until the new patch mate. This patch is unplayable for the realistic gamer.

Well that's just patently not true.

Why is it (yet again it was the same in 13) that if you leave your Assistant to do the training it "always" stays on attacking movement? Absolutely pointless leaving your Assistant to do anything. Plus DOF doesn't seem as good as in 13. At least in 13 he gave you a few players to sign, in 14 the DOF hasn't done anything bar bringing in Staff - who are usually not much good!!!!

They're much, much better than they were in 13, as they're a lot more customisable. If you give them full control, then they'll only be marginally better than FM13. They do need a bit more improvement though.

[Sussex Hammer]

If you set your DoF to find and agree terms with players, he'll often find players for your team. Make sure you set it to you having the final say though, as some of his signings are a bit cack.

You can also use him to suggest players in various positions with various transfer statuses in the transfer centre.

I think he's a lot more useful in this game than in FM13.

Done all that. Maybe it's down to the fact that we are skint!!!!

[Guest El Payaso]

I was really disappointed with the match engine when I got promoted to the Championship. It looks like the higher in the divisions you get, less the game looks like football. Dribbling has suddenly become more effective and overpowering, my same players are getting past opponents even more than they did in the lower leagues and vice versa. Also I see lots of goal scoring chances coming from slow buildups and without any special pass the ball is played to the penalty area along the ground. And inside the penalty area there is often all the time in the world to take that shot. Even less midfield battles occur in these higher levels and the game just seems free flowing, passing and movement of the ball is too smooth and attacking players leave defenders standing with their first touches. Just too polished generally.

Haven't seen that many goals in the games but the comprehensive highlights that I always use have become really painful to watch now. In lower leagues it was quite good atleast most of the time.

It also seems that I'm the only manager in my save that really tries to develope players. I see loads of youngsters with great potential released after every season by Premier league clubs and I would basically be able to build a really good squad for free because of that. And the other AI teams are just waiting and waiting for me to make the move first and they act really slowly so they don't even challenge me in the transfer market.

I'm only using scout reports to search players to keep it realistic so I don't know how many there actually are availabe but loads of them.

Guess that I have to wait for the patch now.

E: just checked the stats in my save and they looked like I thought; highest dribblers in the Championship have like 8-9 dribbles per game.

http://thinkfootball.co.uk/archives/13722 <- There are some stats about the real football in the Premierleague. Hazard has 3,6 per game and that is propably one of the highest in the EPL...

Isn't football supposed to be a tactical and inteligence game instead of relying on individual efforts from dribblers?

[Pelz]

Am genuinely starting to believe that FM14 has a new feature... I'm calling it the 'You've not been playing much recently so we're going to punish you for you insubordination' bug.

After not playing the game a whole lot the past couple of weeks for a number of reasons, just a fleeting go at it here and there, realized I had a lot of free time coming up and thought I'd try my hand at an Ajax save (something I've always wanted to do, even more so after finding inspiration from Cleons Ajax thread, thank you Sir). After seven hours of the most meticulous planning I think I've ever gone into with any version of FM, awake at 5am unable to sleep as so many ideas were flowing through my mind and a couple of disappointing but understandable transfer attempts (Honda to Everton as an example, double the money here and C.L Football but oh well, get the wanting to play in Premiership thing) that magical moment finally comes and it's first game of the season, Dutch Super Cup Final vs AZ - furthermore, have come through pre-season unscathed, losing only once 1-0 to Man Utd in a friendly cup final, winning the 6 other matches and with a fully fit squad I can hardly control the excitement.

It takes only 22 seconds for the excitement to become completely uncontrollable as Bojan smashes in a thunderous drive cutting in from the right flank across the face of the oppositions helpless goalkeeper to score the fastest goal in Super Cup history- 22 seconds! Now I get the feeling the ecstasy from those opening moments were there simply to get my hopes up as high as possible before driving a steak right through my heart and leaving me a disheveled wreck.

Completely control the game, never in danger and playing some beautiful football but things begin to develop... on 18 minutes Bojan is taken off injured, 33 minutes Siem De Jong is stretchered off, his replacement Sigporsson picks up a knock 5 minutes later but keep him on, fearing being left with no subs so early in the game. 56 minutes in and still dominating despite our crippled lumbering oaf up front Danny Blind at left back picks up a knock and not wanting to risk the star man sub him immediately for Nicola Boilesen. On 70 minutes Viktor Fischer is off injured, now meaning all 4 of the front men used today were out and on 79, of course, Boilesen is ALSO taken straight off with an injury putting us down to nine men - still pretty much controlling it takes until the 86th minute for our goalkeeper, under no pressure, to play a stupid ball straight to their right winger who wildly shoots, that shot deflecting off one of our center backs, wrong footing the keeper and flying straight in. Ninety minutes end with the score 1-1, 17 shots for us 6 of which on target to AZ's 1 shot, 0 on target. Furthermore, not a single booking for AZ despite injuring 5 of our players. Our disabled, bedraggled squad make it through extra time and we subsequently lost the penalty shootout 9-8, missing our last two penalties with the first of those being our chance to win.

Fine, I think, it's just one game and the injuries might not be 'that' bad. Reluctantly press continue - Siem De Jong now gets to spend the next four months out counting the proceeds of his recently signed, much improved, long term contract, Bojan is out for 2 months, Fischer and Boilesen 3-4 weeks a piece and Siggy a further 2-3 weeks, only crumb of comfort being Danny Blind only being out for a couple of days with a broken nail!

After getting so wonderfully involved and genuinely excited all of this morning I just have to ask... Football Manager, why do you hate me so?

I am going to persevere with this save, I simply have to, all I ask is that (for the love of God) you go a little easier on me in the not too distant future....

[mortiis7]

I really hope the German transfer bug is fixed soon. It's been a month and a half. It makes me realize how few people must be playing in the german league, because people would be flipping out if it happened in the epl

me and my friends are playing german leagues...

but this FM is such a disaster and we are begging SI to fix this game and after 4 months of waiting we got nothing...and we payed our hard earned money for this...

if this german bug and ME isnt fixed any time soon..for sure this is last FM me and my friends ever played...and last money i ever gave to SI...end of story!

[forameuss]

What is the "German Transfer Bug" anyway?

[Sussex Hammer]

Think I'll leave it until the update and see how it is then. Just played top of table Chelsea away and was 1-0 up with a penalty after defending brilliantly. Then two goals in the last 5 minutes a long shot from Jon Obi Mikkel with a long shot stat of "4", yes, 4, and yep you guessed it a header from a corner wins it for Chelsea. This FM in my opinion is far to random. No rhyme or reason for half the things that go on it's just a mish mash of random happenings that as a user you feel you have no control over at all. Just my opinion.

[Jibby123]

Think I'll leave it until the update and see how it is then. Just played top of table Chelsea away and was 1-0 up with a penalty after defending brilliantly. Then two goals in the last 5 minutes a long shot from Jon Obi Mikkel with a long shot stat of "4", yes, 4, and yep you guessed it a header from a corner wins it for Chelsea. This FM in my opinion is far to random. No rhyme or reason for half the things that go on it's just a mish mash of random happenings that as a user you feel you have no control over at all. Just my opinion.

I'd love to hear you report or analyse on a real life match from any given Premier League match this weekend. You sound like 9/10 of managers interviewed on MotD every weekend as the loss is everyone else and everything else at fault apart from your own players and tactics. Blaming a mish mash of random events on a sport where mish mash random happens so often is pushing it.

You were 1-0 with 5 minutes to go against a top of the table Chelsea side and lost 2-1? Hold the back page. That's football.

[juno412]

What is the "German Transfer Bug" anyway?

Many players have "no interest" in joining you. Basically you can't sign anyone that isn't EU or something. Or at least a ton of them. You can be the most reputable club in the world and they still won't join you

[Dagenham_Dave]

Think I'll leave it until the update and see how it is then. Just played top of table Chelsea away and was 1-0 up with a penalty after defending brilliantly. Then two goals in the last 5 minutes a long shot from Jon Obi Mikkel with a long shot stat of "4", yes, 4, and yep you guessed it a header from a corner wins it for Chelsea.

You do realise that scenario could happen regardless of any update they do to the game?

[Cougar2010]

Think I'll leave it until the update and see how it is then. Just played top of table Chelsea away and was 1-0 up with a penalty after defending brilliantly. Then two goals in the last 5 minutes a long shot from Jon Obi Mikkel with a long shot stat of "4", yes, 4, and yep you guessed it a header from a corner wins it for Chelsea. This FM in my opinion is far to random. No rhyme or reason for half the things that go on it's just a mish mash of random happenings that as a user you feel you have no control over at all. Just my opinion.

So should a player with long shots of 4 never score from outside the area?

What about 6, 8 or 10?

Maybe we should just set ability to score long shots as either can or can't why bother with 1-20.

[yuy]

It's been over a month since release patch 14.2, while the SI so far can not fix the match engine. With each successive day fans of the game are losing hope and patience. After many years probably time to say goodbye to FM. I regret that none of the SI can not understand it.

[RTHerringbone]

It's been over a month since release patch 14.2, while the SI so far can not fix the match engine. With each successive day fans of the game are losing hope and patience. After many years probably time to say goodbye to FM. I regret that none of the SI can not understand it.

Or....the last update is always bundled with the transfer update at approximately the same time each year.

[OxfordUnitedFC]

Think I'll leave it until the update and see how it is then. Just played top of table Chelsea away and was 1-0 up with a penalty after defending brilliantly. Then two goals in the last 5 minutes a long shot from Jon Obi Mikkel with a long shot stat of "4", yes, 4, and yep you guessed it a header from a corner wins it for Chelsea. This FM in my opinion is far to random. No rhyme or reason for half the things that go on it's just a mish mash of random happenings that as a user you feel you have no control over at all. Just my opinion.

The next update won't included the 'fixes' Mikel can never score a long shot or the AI can never score from a corner in the last 5 minutes.

[Sussex Hammer]

Oh of course yep I'm certainly not arguing against the Chelsea result. Yep it happens, probably my fault from changing from counter to defensive!! The game just seems to have the feel of a lot of randomness with regard to results. You beat Liverpool away 3-1 and in the next game you lose 1-0 to 19th placed Southampton at home, then you draw at home 2-2 to Man United then get thumped 4-1 away at Everton. Yep it happens IRL but with the game there doesn't seem much reasoning behind it. Is it tactics, team talks, morale, there seems to be a lot of guess work about the inconsistency. I went on a 6 match unbeaten run then lost three in a row conceding 12 goals in those three games. Maybe I just can't see what is happening which is odd because in previous incarnations I didn't have much problem but that's why IMO everything is so random.

[forameuss]

Oh of course yep I'm certainly not arguing against the Chelsea result. Yep it happens, probably my fault from changing from counter to defensive!! The game just seems to have the feel of a lot of randomness with regard to results. You beat Liverpool away 3-1 and in the next game you lose 1-0 to 19th placed Southampton at home, then you draw at home 2-2 to Man United then get thumped 4-1 away at Everton. Yep it happens IRL but with the game there doesn't seem much reasoning behind it. Is it tactics, team talks, morale, there seems to be a lot of guess work about the inconsistency. I went on a 6 match unbeaten run then lost three in a row conceding 12 goals in those three games. Maybe I just can't see what is happening which is odd because in previous incarnations I didn't have much problem but that's why IMO everything is so random.

But is it really random? If it was truly random, surely there would be complaints from all over the place about it. For 95% of things you see in the game, there is a reason why there is such inconsistency. Of course, then it becomes a much different question - why is there such inconsistency in my team?

[Sussex Hammer]

But is it really random? If it was truly random, surely there would be complaints from all over the place about it. For 95% of things you see in the game, there is a reason why there is such inconsistency. Of course, then it becomes a much different question - why is there such inconsistency in my team?

Yeah I know it's my tactics!!!! It's a feedback thread. I'm giving my feedback. It's frustrating that a gamer can develop a solid tactic in one incarnation of FM like in my case only conceding very few shots on target in 12 and 13 and yet coming to 14 I can't defend with the same principles. Yes it's a different ME and the game has different roles but my ideas were "holistic" in the last FM so why not in this?! Plus certain ME factors make it bloody difficult to out ideas into practice. How can I make good use of forwards with good header stats when every cross seems to hit a full back and go out for the 1000th corner? I'd just like to put my ideas into place with an ME that fully allows that. Surely that is the whole point of the game?

[becherovska]

Awful first touch and goalkeeper decision. It ruins all tactics... and the game !

[pret]

So. Many. Bugs.

Player hands in a transfer request. Two offers come in, one on loan and one transfer. I accept the transfer and reject the loan. He wants to know why I didn't let him go on loan, so I try speak to him, and see that the relationship has broken down and he doesn't want to speak to me.

[veers]

Have put quite a few hours into the game and here is what I'm seeing.

I always start unemployed with minimum experience, and try to move up. I played with some of the skrill teams, but they were terrible, and it was just miserable and hopeless.

Then I noticed that Berwick in the 2nd scottish league offers you the post, and they have a quality side. With only a few signings, and with some attacking 442 tactics I was able to get promoted in league 1 and then into the championship within 2 years. It's been lots of fun, and I love the game, but there are definitely some terrible problems in the match engine.

To wit:

1. Defenders are completely hapless in the face of long balls and through balls - literally, over and over again, my opposition would just play long balls to their strikers and get past all 4 of my back line with ease, ans then pop it in.

2. Defenders incapable of marking opposition in the penalty area - my fullbacks just don't cover their man, leaving an open opposition player in the box 8 yards from goal. They just pass it to him and put it in.

3. Ridiculous play from goalkeepers - my goalkeepers would constantly end up out of position against strikers, leaving the net wide open. These are 4 and 5 star keepers playing like 12 year olds and gifting free goals. Also some keepers would kick the ball to nearest opponent striker at goal kick, leading to instant goals.

4. Long shots - seems like they never go in... pop after pop and no goals, whats the point?

5. Now that I made it to the championship no one wants to join my side! Incapable of signing any quality players, and my board won't let me pay high enough wages to buy anyone decent. I can't pay more than 350 pounds a week, and I'm supposed to surive! Also, my team has become pathetic and hapless. Even though my side is highly rated in ability, the championship teams are running circles around me, and dribbling all over the pitch. Every game is now a massacre, even though I have solid DC's and have switched to counterattacking tactics.

6. Does the woodwork have magnets in it? Never had so many shots off posts and crossbars!

I really love the game, but the match engine needs a LOT of work, right now it is just painful.

[mortiis7]

please SI fix this German bug and fix ME as soon as possible!...i wanna play my game now when im on vacation! and i dont wanna play this with so many bugs!

[Dagenham_Dave]

5. Now that I made it to the championship no one wants to join my side! Incapable of signing any quality players, and my board won't let me pay high enough wages to buy anyone decent. I can't pay more than 350 pounds a week, and I'm supposed to surive! Also, my team has become pathetic and hapless

What do you expect? Getting to the Championship with Berwick in two seasons is pretty unrealistic. Add to that you're a part-time team in a full time league, so you're going to be struggling right off the bat. Better to build your team up over a few seasons when playing at that level. Also gives your finances time to build so that when you get to the Championship, the board will be more willing to turn the club full time. Although with Berwick, you're unlikely to ever get really good crowds.

And your ME feedback - if all of it is happening against your club as you say - can be fixed tactically, although it may just be that your players simply aren't good enough for the level you're at.