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Stuart Warren

Football Manager 2014 - Update 14.2.2 - Feedback Thread

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You get a lot of people saying that FM12 was a joy to play, but given there was no collision detection in the ME, how exactly could people look at that and say that it was a good representation of football? So instead, is FM12 being held up because it took a lot less work to be successful at it? And is that success leading to more people being happier with the game, despite it's deficiencies?

Nail. On. Head.

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I may be getting existential here, but how closely linked is how you are doing in a save to how good you think the ME is? Some complain of the football not being very good to watch, which is an exception to the rule, but I'm convinced that if you're doing well, you'll forgive a lot of sins, and if you're doing badly, you might start seeing things that aren't there. Two sides of the same coin. You get a lot of people saying that FM12 was a joy to play, but given there was no collision detection in the ME, how exactly could people look at that and say that it was a good representation of football? So instead, is FM12 being held up because it took a lot less work to be successful at it? And is that success leading to more people being happier with the game, despite it's deficiencies?

Also, this is in no way meant to be derogatory towards anyone that enjoys FM12, or that is focused on winning. Several times I've found myself bored with FM14 because I'm not doing well, and I'm not a particularly good manager. It's natural that most players will prefer a game where they win to one which they don't. If it was the other way around, Dark Souls would be a best-selling game, and not the close-to-niche game that it is now.

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I may be getting existential here, but how closely linked is how you are doing in a save to how good you think the ME is? Some complain of the football not being very good to watch, which is an exception to the rule, but I'm convinced that if you're doing well, you'll forgive a lot of sins, and if you're doing badly, you might start seeing things that aren't there

No, I dont think so. I won every trophy possible my last season at LFC, but didnt enjoy it at all as highlights from matches were basically corner after corner after corner.

Felt sad playing Barca in the CL, the only time I saw Messi in the game was when he was lucky and got hit by one of the corner richocets

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No, I dont think so. I won every trophy possible my last season at LFC, but didnt enjoy it at all as highlights from matches were basically corner after corner after corner.

Felt sad playing Barca in the CL, the only time I saw Messi in the game was when he was lucky and got hit by one of the corner richocets

I did say there were exceptions to the rule. I just can't see the link to "FM14's ME is horrible to watch, I'm going back to FM12".

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No, I dont think so. I won every trophy possible my last season at LFC, but didnt enjoy it at all

Why would you continue to play something you 'don't enjoy at all'? I'm not having a go here before the usual suspects come along with their pitchforks, I'm genuinely curious.

For instance, I bought Left 4 Dead 2 yesterday as it was cheap being an oldish game. Within half an hour, I knew I really wasn't enjoying it, so I put it off, and will likely not play it again. I can't understand why people would continue to play a game (ie a luxury pastime) they didn't enjoy.

But perhaps that's just me.

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I did say there were exceptions to the rule. I just can't see the link to "FM14's ME is horrible to watch, I'm going back to FM12".

The link is easy to see. FM12/11 is much more fluid with more noticeable individual play, there's much less of that indecisive ambling about that makes 13/14 a frustrating experience for many, less blatantly 'in your face' player errors and if you don't set out to deliberately exploit the through balls to forwards pattern the major statistical numbers are more balanced. It's not a better simulation of a football match largely because there aren't enough passes/possessions but it's not at all hard to see why it can be much less frustrating to watch as a highlights package regardless of wins or losses.

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Why would you continue to play something you 'don't enjoy at all'? I'm not having a go here before the usual suspects come along with their pitchforks, I'm genuinely curious.

For instance, I bought Left 4 Dead 2 yesterday as it was cheap being an oldish game. Within half an hour, I knew I really wasn't enjoying it, so I put it off, and will likely not play it again. I can't understand why people would continue to play a game (ie a luxury pastime) they didn't enjoy.

But perhaps that's just me.

I think people still carry on playing it because they love the idea of managing a successful team and also in the hope that the watching may get better even with it's faults. TBH if you watch in full or extended mode there are less corners and more actual game play.

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The whole point is that FM should allow both approaches, but FM14 isn't very good at that. If set to Very Fluid, a relatively sensible tactic should allow the players to adapt to the situation and make decisions based on their own judgement. If set to Very Rigid, the players should adhere to the instructions to a much higher degree. I don't care about the particulars in the game of what fluidity actually does - the idea of fluidity is that of having a very specific game-plan where every player is a cog in the machinery, versus a general gameplan where the players are individual machines in a network. If at Very Fluid players on attacking duties are encouraged to ignore all defensive work, then that instruction does the exact opposite of what it should.

The FB's in the above clip aren't "ignoring their defensive" work. Rather, it is either a "look for overlap" instruction or the combination of fluidity and mentality causing them rush up as soon as the side gains the ball. That is much more likely to happen in "balanced" fluidity actually rather than any of the fluid ones, as in "balanced", without going into mechanics, players "focus on their duties", as the game puts it. What this means in practice is that even without any team instructions applied, attacking full backs or wing backs in a "balanced" fluidity are more prone to overlap than in any other fluidity. The more aggressive the mentality, the more early they will start their runs. Hence the fluidity/mentality inquiry by wwfan.

Naturally, in terms of implementing complex and rather abstracts concepts such as "fluidity" it is firstly up for interpretation as to what exactly "fluidity" in football even is*, and then are limitations dictated by the instructions under the hood. To put it in another way: The fluidities never have fully worked the way you like them to do. This has never been any different before, it has always been the role and duty combinations pretty much determining off the ball movement too, that is why they are the most important to set up and feature prominently in wwfan's 12 step guide also. The counter argument could be the following: If off the ball movement itself was truly "fluid", imagine the chaos that would unfurl if a crucial holding player with lowish attributes was prone to leave his position frequently rather than stick to his instructions. In parts this conflict in "fluidity" might be because SI think differently of the general concept than you. In parts it is no doubt also mechanical limitations. Your best bet now is that SI aren't limited to the sliders anymore. Roles such as the half back have already been fully isolated and given behavior that previously was impossible to implement given the sliders of yore.

An example to explain what I mean - whenever I try to get my team play a build up game from the back starting from the GK I keep seeing a specific unwanted pattern that goes like this: GK short pass to the LB -> LB long whack over everyone's heads. Over and over again. This is the game logic taking over, whatever passing instructions I try and give the LB he for some reason won't recognise any short options in midfield nor will he try and go back to the CB's or the GK because his decision making process determines that an aimless punt is the best (safest?) option.

That could be game logics, it could also be something being lost in that "communication process" (i.e. misconceptions how to fully utilize the tactical tools at disposal and how they translate, not only in isolation but how to apply them holistically), but it could also be that "common sense". Players have that, that is a "mind of their own", as defined by SI, naturally. F'r instance, merely going overload and instructing to "go route one" will not literally cause all of your players to punt it long all the time in the hope that they will hit upon something. If there is a better option near or if players are marked out of the game (or the one forward you stick with is in no space either), or the player just doesn't see that option up-front, he might go a different route. All you do by applying even such extreme instructions in isolation is increasing the likelyhood of such play happening. Similarily, if you read through the patch notes, you will find that players of low calibre are tweaked to be more likely to pick direct routes (likely in particular when being pushed), and if you literally wanted your FB to pass it short all the time, you'd likely also need apply the most extreme instructions that encourage him to do such and make him hughely favor holding possession above anything else. Going a reasonably aggressive mentality/strategy that is meant to get the ball upfield and applying a "pass shorter" team instruction likely won't suffice, a limited full back is obviously the wrong role for this, and you might perhaps even consider going with a more rigid/less expressive setup that limits his freedom in decision making.

Right now I must conclude that you must be exaggerating, as if there would be safe options near, he'd pick them every once in a while rather than hit it "over and over again". Whilst in general you are instructing into a framework set and always tweaked by SI, that sounds a little extreme, honestly...

* which is probably a good reason for that they don't have that huge an influence on play. :-D And they probably should never have.

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The link is easy to see. FM12/11 is much more fluid with more noticeable individual play, there's much less of that indecisive ambling about that makes 13/14 a frustrating experience for many, less blatantly 'in your face' player errors and if you don't set out to deliberately exploit the through balls to forwards pattern the major statistical numbers are more balanced. It's not a better simulation of a football match largely because there aren't enough passes/possessions but it's not at all hard to see why it can be much less frustrating to watch as a highlights package regardless of wins or losses.

For my money, and as someone who spent a lot of time with FM12 after not buying FM13, that's a pretty good summation of both sides of the argument. Kudos.

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You get a lot of people saying that FM12 was a joy to play, but given there was no collision detection in the ME, how exactly could people look at that and say that it was a good representation of football? So instead, is FM12 being held up because it took a lot less work to be successful at it? And is that success leading to more people being happier with the game, despite it's deficiencies?

While I agree with your theory in some respects, in others it's a rather sweeping statement. Personally I found FM12 just as challenging as FM14. I actually find FM14 slightly easier than FM12. I just can't accept the way the games looks in 3D simulation. Forget the football, it doesn't represent human movement a lot of the time.

We're told by Cleon (who's guide is fantastic in the TTF), that we should view the 3D ME to get a grasp on how the game is being played out. If this is the case, how do I interpret my CM running backwards, cutting across the path of the opposing player with the ball and doing nothing about it (he might as well say 'hi!' on his way past). There is no way of interpreting this movement. Also, because the ball is like an ice hockey puck, am I to interpret over hit passes as they are seen, or is it because the ball wouldn't stick to a treacle covered pitch made of sellotape? All of these reasons are why viewing FM12 was more pleasurable in my opinion.

Of course, I appreciate that FM14 is more sophisticated. But if it is delivered to me in a way which doesn't please my eye, then I won't enjoy it.

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For my money, and as someone who spent a lot of time with FM12 after not buying FM13, that's a pretty good summation of both sides of the argument. Kudos.

Agreed, it's a great explanation.

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The link is easy to see. FM12/11 is much more fluid with more noticeable individual play, there's much less of that indecisive ambling about that makes 13/14 a frustrating experience for many, less blatantly 'in your face' player errors and if you don't set out to deliberately exploit the through balls to forwards pattern the major statistical numbers are more balanced. It's not a better simulation of a football match largely because there aren't enough passes/possessions but it's not at all hard to see why it can be much less frustrating to watch as a highlights package regardless of wins or losses.
This. Exactly! Personally, I found FM 12 far more enjoyable even if it didn't have the "collision detection" system. At present the match engine looks like a bunch of 8th graders fighting over a ball. The ball keeps bobbing here and there. Neither is it visually pleasing nor is it realistic.

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Direct ME issues aside, maybe part of the frustration is the selection or cut of the highlights. I get much more enjoyment out of the happenings on the pitch while watching it on full match, although this not being very viable time-consuming-wise.

Offensively, I can easily detect where things are going wrong, which is much harder to recognize on anything less than "full match" - especially if there's trouble with build-up play before even creating chances. Defensively, on "full match" I can assess defensive flaws earlier than in any highlights mode and don't get surprised as often by defender mistakes, if, for example, he get's in critical situations, that almost create chances for the opposition, when on any highlight mode I only see the actual "**** hits the fan" situations, seemingly out of the blue.

That being said, I'd like the highlight modes to have a more intelligent way of picking and cutting scenes to identify issues before it's too late.

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This. Exactly! Personally, I found FM 12 far more enjoyable even if it didn't have the "collision detection" system. At present the match engine looks like a bunch of 8th graders fighting over a ball. The ball keeps bobbing here and there. Neither is it visually pleasing nor is it realistic.

How can you possibly say this isn't visually pleasing?

[video=youtube;AQ_zBFX13zk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQ_zBFX13zk

:D

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That being said, I'd like the highlight modes to have a more intelligent way of picking and cutting scenes to identify issues before it's too late.

Aye, I don't watch matches in full all the time. Via the time bar however I often rewind the action to a moment a couple seconds before the highlight kicks in. Usually what is not shown is the missed interception that lead to the highlight, or the missed tackle caused by a defender being stretched after an attack had seen him isolated on the back, etc. etc. Doesn't bug me much, as the time bar makes this super easily accessible. But whilst picking out issues is up for interpretation to an extent, there could be an optional highlight mode that would pick this more intelligently indeed.

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How can you possibly say this isn't visually pleasing?

[video=youtube;AQ_zBFX13zk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQ_zBFX13zk

:D

There are certain passages of the play which are good and are pleasing to the eye. The trouble is they are preceded by the casual ambling described earlier. The contrast between the snail paced ambling and the fluid movement shown in this clip is disconcerting and leads to a feeling that the ME is 'all over the place'.

Also, in your clip, the players are still moving when their legs are planted. If this keeps up in FM15 it will be frustrating. I'm sick of seeing players slide across the ground on planted feet, all because their movement isn't animated correctly.

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The contrast between the snail paced ambling and the fluid movement shown in this clip is disconcerting and leads to a feeling that the ME is 'all over the place'.

What 'snail paced ambling'? The first player who had the ball in the clip was shielding it with a defender behind him, waiting for the other players to get into position for the pass. After that, the movement was fluid, and my only annoyance is that I never scored. I see passages of play like this quite regularly, and rarely, if ever notice the ball 'bobbing here and there'. I watch the game with the elevated camera (or 2D sometimes), so I perhaps don't see the animation glitches close up, but still.

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Hi guys i just wanted to know why i cant seem to see the option to disable the in game editor option anymore, my game is up to date and its on 4.2.2 before on 4.2 i was able to select if i wanted to have it enabled or not.

Is anyone else facing the same problem were no option comes up to disable it when starting new game ?

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As far as I'm aware, there were no changes affecting this in 14.2.2, so would just be coincidence in that case.

I tried in 3 saves and the injuries ocurred in all 3. Before this patch I had 1 or 2 players injured in my team, after the patch I have 6 or 7. For me that's not a coincidence...

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I tried in 3 saves and the injuries ocurred in all 3. Before this patch I had 1 or 2 players injured in my team, after the patch I have 6 or 7. For me that's not a coincidence...

Injuries weren't touched in either update, so I'm afraid it is just a coincidence whether you choose to believe it or not.

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Off topic here Dagenham Dave 1500 odd posts in a year you need to get out more

5 posts a day, at an average of 30 seconds per post equates to under three minutes of my life per day. I'm not sure how my life would benefit more by me being outside for those few minutes a day, but as you said, it's off topic.

Having a go at someone's post count is the lamest thing anyone can do on an internet forum.

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5 posts a day, at an average of 30 seconds per post equates to under three minutes of my life per day. I'm not sure how my life would benefit more by me being outside for those few minutes a day, but as you said, it's off topic.

Having a go at someone's post count is the lamest thing anyone can do on an internet forum.

Plus the time it takes to read all the posts you're responding to :D

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its posters like him who have ruined this thread, sit here all day responding to every post. I often check this thread to see if PaulC has given any updates on how the new patch is going, and all I see is the same few names shooting down peoples posts. if they thought the game was so great they wouldn't need to be here and would be playing the game.

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Yes they do, but not the ridiculous amount of times they happen in the game

Were you just on the way to log this in the Bugs Forum? Couldn't see it there yet, but I may have missed it.

If there is one thing more frustrating than a mod constantly asking for potential Bugs to be logged, then it is a poster who repeatedly raises issues in a feedback thread but fails to log them in the Bugs Forum.

That goalkeeping decision is bad, and I'd be annoyed if it happened to me. If you log it with a .pkm there's a chance it can be fixed.

If you don't, it might not be fixed.

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Hi guys i just wanted to know why i cant seem to see the option to disable the in game editor option anymore, my game is up to date and its on 4.2.2 before on 4.2 i was able to select if i wanted to have it enabled or not.

Is anyone else facing the same problem were no option comes up to disable it when starting new game ?

i also tried it with the default skin but still no option appear to select deselect in game editor

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What 'snail paced ambling'? The first player who had the ball in the clip was shielding it with a defender behind him, waiting for the other players to get into position for the pass. After that, the movement was fluid, and my only annoyance is that I never scored. I see passages of play like this quite regularly, and rarely, if ever notice the ball 'bobbing here and there'. I watch the game with the elevated camera (or 2D sometimes), so I perhaps don't see the animation glitches close up, but still.

Come on Dave, read it again. I said clips like this are usually preceded by the casual ambling. This is the snail placed ambling I was referring to when comparing it to the fluid movement in YOUR clip! I didn't say there was snail paced ambling in your clip!

If you haven't seen any of this casual strolling through the middle, then I need a copy of your game please. Either that or it doesn't affect FMC.

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Were you just on the way to log this in the Bugs Forum? Couldn't see it there yet, but I may have missed it.

If there is one thing more frustrating than a mod constantly asking for potential Bugs to be logged, then it is a poster who repeatedly raises issues in a feedback thread but fails to log them in the Bugs Forum.

That goalkeeping decision is bad, and I'd be annoyed if it happened to me. If you log it with a .pkm there's a chance it can be fixed.

If you don't, it might not be fixed.

I will log it, even when several people has already done so and kept been doing so for the past months. The thing is people might start wondering that an enterprise that needs its customers to have a clue what's wrong with the product it sells to those same customers is.... just let's say odd, not to say worse. All of this without a single apology and with some insults from mods.

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It's our tactics they say

[video=youtube_share;091Reqd86kE]

Tbh, Id be fuming if it happened to me, but the attacker is running up on the keepers blind side, the keeper thought he had more time so he took a touch. I presume he then played to his managers instructions by playing out of defence, where the attacker pops up, nicks the ball and picks up his healthy goal bonus.

Like I say, annoying, but I wouldnt have said its a bug

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I will log it, even when several people has already done so and kept been doing so for the past months. The thing is people might start wondering that an enterprise that needs its customers to have a clue what's wrong with the product it sells to those same customers is.... just let's say odd, not to say worse. All of this without a single apology and with some insults from mods.

I think that's a bit unfair. Firstly FM has always been in part a community project as well as the product of SI and Sega so why shouldn't we help out finding bugs as well, I mean it's not like they are firing their QA team and just let us do the testing. Secondly the ME has so many possible scenarios in which bugs can occur that with a staff of 10-20 testers it will be almost impossible to find them all and even if they do often there isn't enough time to fix them all or some of them get burried under more important bugs.

Of course we would like to have a bug free product but not even Blizzard manages to get this done and they usually take 6-9 years to make a game.

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I think that's a bit unfair. Firstly FM has always been in part a community project as well as the product of SI and Sega so why shouldn't we help out finding bugs as well, I mean it's not like they are firing their QA team and just let us do the testing. Secondly the ME has so many possible scenarios in which bugs can occur that with a staff of 10-20 testers it will be almost impossible to find them all and even if they do often there isn't enough time to fix them all or some of them get burried under more important bugs.

Thank you for a welcome dose of reality.

petergoddard - thank you for logging the .pkm in the Bugs Forum.

It was a shame you felt it had to be accompanied with some snide comments, but I have deleted them accordingly.

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Tbh, Id be fuming if it happened to me, but the attacker is running up on the keepers blind side, the keeper thought he had more time so he took a touch. I presume he then played to his managers instructions by playing out of defence, where the attacker pops up, nicks the ball and picks up his healthy goal bonus.

Like I say, annoying, but I wouldnt have said its a bug

The bug is not the event by itself, the bug is the amount of times that event repeats itself.

And we can be a little more specific: the GK is Helton from FC Porto and if anyone knows Helton also knows that one of the strongest attributes of him is coming out of the goal and playing with his feet. Never after 7 or 8 seasons playing in FC Porto did his playing with the feet produced a single error that might had lead to a goal. If FM pretends to be a sim, then it has to simulate real players, their goods and bads. It seems it doesn't.

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I think that's a bit unfair. Firstly FM has always been in part a community project as well as the product of SI and Sega so why shouldn't we help out finding bugs as well, I mean it's not like they are firing their QA team and just let us do the testing. Secondly the ME has so many possible scenarios in which bugs can occur that with a staff of 10-20 testers it will be almost impossible to find them all and even if they do often there isn't enough time to fix them all or some of them get burried under more important bugs.

Of course we would like to have a bug free product but not even Blizzard manages to get this done and they usually take 6-9 years to make a game.

Well, I've said it before, I'll say it again: given the complexity of the game is completly undertandble that a few bugs would come up. There is no perfection. But these are not just a few bugs are they (even after considering that a lot of complains are not bugs) ??? Also it's not like that these are bugs so obscure that testers can not see them. And SI released a beta version for people to test and present problems... and with did and the problems remains. Then we were presented with a patch (ok, nice), and a patch (ok, nice), and another patch, and another, and another, and another. And patch after patch, month after month we are told "It's your tactics", "be constructive". Well, right now I'm not feeling constructive for something I paid and that I would expect to have fun with for a all season and not half of the season.

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Sorry, I read it as you were specifically referring to the clip that was posted.

Don't worry, these boards are hardly the easiest place to communicate. :brock::thup:

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Well, I've said it before, I'll say it again: given the complexity of the game is completly undertandble that a few bugs would come up. There is no perfection. But these are not just a few bugs are they (even after considering that a lot of complains are not bugs) ??? Also it's not like that these are bugs so obscure that testers can not see them. And SI released a beta version for people to test and present problems... and with did and the problems remains. Then we were presented with a patch (ok, nice), and a patch (ok, nice), and another patch, and another, and another, and another. And patch after patch, month after month we are told "It's your tactics", "be constructive". Well, right now I'm not feeling constructive for something I paid and that I would expect to have fun with for a all season and not half of the season.

It's hard don't say that he is right.

Got the game by three months, still have numerous bugs that for someone make the product unenjoyable.

This game live 12 months, 3 months (and still we don't see the light) it's not a short period of time.

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5 posts a day, at an average of 30 seconds per post equates to under three minutes of my life per day. I'm not sure how my life would benefit more by me being outside for those few minutes a day, but as you said, it's off topic.

Having a go at someone's post count is the lamest thing anyone can do on an internet forum.

Keep on belittling and criticizing someone else's post or complain is the lamest thing anyone can do on an internet forum.

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It's our tactics they say

[video=youtube_share;091Reqd86kE]

It happens to me a lot of time as well. I gave up setting instruction "distribute to defenders" for GK as it can lead to blunder like in your video even when I love to play possession football, instead I just let the GK kick the ball long. Just my 2 cents.

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Keep on belittling and criticizing someone else's post or complain is the lamest thing anyone can do on an internet forum.

^ ^ ^ Quite.

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Keep on belittling and criticizing someone else's post or complain is the lamest thing anyone can do on an internet forum.

What is it you're doing here then? How ironic.

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That could be game logics, it could also be something being lost in that "communication process" (i.e. misconceptions how to fully utilize the tactical tools at disposal and how they translate, not only in isolation but how to apply them holistically), but it could also be that "common sense". Players have that, that is a "mind of their own", as defined by SI, naturally. F'r instance, merely going overload and instructing to "go route one" will not literally cause all of your players to punt it long all the time in the hope that they will hit upon something. If there is a better option near or if players are marked out of the game (or the one forward you stick with is in no space either), or the player just doesn't see that option up-front, he might go a different route. All you do by applying even such extreme instructions in isolation is increasing the likelyhood of such play happening. Similarily, if you read through the patch notes, you will find that players of low calibre are tweaked to be more likely to pick direct routes (likely in particular when being pushed), and if you literally wanted your FB to pass it short all the time, you'd likely also need apply the most extreme instructions that encourage him to do such and make him hughely favor holding possession above anything else. Going a reasonably aggressive mentality/strategy that is meant to get the ball upfield and applying a "pass shorter" team instruction likely won't suffice, a limited full back is obviously the wrong role for this, and you might perhaps even consider going with a more rigid/less expressive setup that limits his freedom in decision making.

Right now I must conclude that you must be exaggerating, as if there would be safe options near, he'd pick them every once in a while rather than hit it "over and over again". Whilst in general you are instructing into a framework set and always tweaked by SI, that sounds a little extreme, honestly...

* which is probably a good reason for that they don't have that huge an influence on play. :-D And they probably should never have.

See, that's making a lot of (wrong) assumptions and is missing the point of my post as well. Which is that while taking the safest option is common sense, it's also common sense to not keep giving the ball away in the exact same manner but try and look for ways to adapt.

I play a very specific system, very rigid and heavily encourage slow build up through shorter passing across the board. The full back has no issue passing normally under any other circumstance, apart from when getting the ball from the GK. If this is down to something missing in the communication process then the game is doing absolutely nothing to give me an indication what. The end result is the same - I'm trying to tell my player to do something that I can see is possible but I'm not getting a response, instead I see a repetitive pattern that looks mechanical and robotic.

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Since I don't see any thread to post this, I would like to ask where does it says at forum rules that moderators are allowed to edit, change and censor our posts ?

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Since I don't see any thread to post this, I would like to ask where does it says at forum rules that moderators are allowed to edit, change and censor our posts ?

I think it comes under the 'common sense' part doesn't it?

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Since I don't see any thread to post this, I would like to ask where does it says at forum rules that moderators are allowed to edit, change and censor our posts ?

Do you understand what a moderator is?

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I understand that a mod is someone that answers and elucidates users about the game and aplies forum rules. Aplying forum rules has nothing to do with editing, changing and censoring posts.

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I understand that a mod is someone that answers and elucidates users about the game and aplies forum rules. Aplying forum rules has nothing to do with editing, changing and censoring posts.

TBH rather than edit your post he should've just deleted it instead and told you why, there's no need to edit posts to make it look like you've edited yourself.

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