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Stuart Warren

Football Manager 2014 - Update 14.2.2 - Feedback Thread

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On the plus side

1. The number of red and yellow cards appears to have been reduced especially around the center circle/half way line.

2. Better variety of goals

3. Better defending

4. Pressing all round seems to be better implemented

5. More realistic play better attuned to players technical skills

6. Number of long balls over the top being instantly controlled by players with poor first touch and technique seems to have been addressed

7. Wingers, full backs, inside forwards and strikers are now making better use of width, all play is not now being pushed into the center, overlapping now seems to be worth implementing.

8. Players now seem to get passes wrong (poor decision making), even in highlight mode, goal mouth incidents often feature passages of play with passing mistakes, adding to the realism.

My concerns at the moment are keepers dealing with crosses and corners, corners however, could be tactical.

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Just had an interesting (and rather irritating) issue.

Playing as Everton, at home to WBA. 2mins remaining in the game and I'm 2-1 up, Barkley having scored both my goals.

In the 88th minute, I get a penalty, and despite having Baines set as my first (and only designated) penalty taker, up steps Barkley. He then proceeds to take an almost comically bad penalty, basically passing it to the goalkeeper.

Now I appreciate that when a player is on 2 goals he often is given the chance to complete his hat trick from the spot, but this needs to be context sensitive -i.e NOT when only 1 goal in the lead, with a few minutes to go in a league game.

Surely you've seen this in real life though? I know I have.

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Little something I've encountered at least once every game so far (5 game stretch). Sometimes my players will pass it to someone, but the pass will be so hard it literally just bounces off the player being passed to, and it goes off and usually ends up in the opposition's possession. The same thing has happened to the opposition. I played FM literally all day yesterday before I had the update downloaded for me this morning, and I don't recall that happening at all.

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So far so good, this seems an improvement from 14.1.4, but I did think that was a step back from 14.1.3. I would like to make a suggestion to those reactionary people throwing their toys out because their downloaded or unrealistic tactic (exploiting ME flaws) has stopped working, they should go and watch a game of football, maybe start by reading Inverting the Pyramid for a good base knowledge, then load a new game and prepare a BALANCED tactic, then you should enjoy the game. As for the 3d animation anomalies, the animations will never be perfect and I think most true FM gamers are not that bothered about it as long as they are few and far between and the keys stats/results remain realistic. In fact wouldn't mind if the game remained 2D as old, as I only ever have 3d for goal highlights out of curiosity. Anyways i'm enjoying my game much more now so thank you SI for all the work on this so far.

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What is up with the height of the ball in 2D ME?

In 14.1.X it seemed like the ball could not travel high of the ground and the goals were very short. Now the ball is pinged high into the air but probably too high?!

I was going to 'raise' this a little further... The height of the ball is indeed insane in 2D, which i always use due to the irritation the 3D ME brings... The ball, particularly from corners, goal kicks and even sometimes just little dinked through-balls looks as though it's about to leave the stadium and shots often rise through the air and then dip at great speed (or at least that's how it looks on screen) ala Cristiano Ronaldo.

Takes a bit of getting used to, that's for sure...

Just wish I could get used to strikers not scoring again - Le Fondre now one goal in 19 (as mentioned before, had 15 a third of way through season before update). The much missed variation of goals seems to have disappeared and instead all are now coming from set pieces or opposition defenders tackling and loose ball falling to unmarked player clean through. Can't remember the last assist I had from open play.

All just feels so random again - am back to adjusting tactics simply to pick up on ME flaws, not simulate football.

PS. Had Stephen Kelly score twice, direct from long throws down the right. Both evaded the heads of defenders and attackers alike, bounced about a yard in front of keeper and bobbled in...

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So far so good, this seems an improvement from 14.1.4, but I did think that was a step back from 14.1.3. I would like to make a suggestion to those reactionary people throwing their toys out because their downloaded or unrealistic tactic (exploiting ME flaws) has stopped working, they should go and watch a game of football, maybe start by reading Inverting the Pyramid for a good base knowledge, then load a new game and prepare a BALANCED tactic, then you should enjoy the game. As for the 3d animation anomalies, the animations will never be perfect and I think most true FM gamers are not that bothered about it as long as they are few and far between and the keys stats/results remain realistic. In fact wouldn't mind if the game remained 2D as old, as I only ever have 3d for goal highlights out of curiosity. Anyways i'm enjoying my game much more now so thank you SI for all the work on this so far.

Whats the weather like up there?

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I'm becoming increasingly frustrated with these updates. Just when I've got my head around one and begin to get some results, another one is released that puts me back to square one. Even more frustrating this time is that my tactic fluidity has been reset to awkward for more or less every stat whilst it was fluid before the update! I wouldn't be too bothered if it wasn't almost the end of season and I'm competing for promotion!

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give away too many penitents and score far too many own goals.

I, so far, agree with the own goals. And pretty silly own goals as well.

Can't remember exactly how many i've seen after the update but i think it's 5.

What is weirder is that all of them have been a panic-situation within the 6-yard box.

The goalie, 2 defenders and an attacker just mindlessly kicking the ball, which results in a defender kicking the ball

onto the other defender, or the goalie, and voilà. Own goal.

I'm just guessing here but i think i advanced about 2 months after the update. So, maybe i'm not disputing the amount of them, after all, as i have to play a bit more to see how often it actually happens.

But the manner of the own goals seems off. They are, in my game, all exactly the same.

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Oh my...did injuries get turned up...I understand that SI feels injuries were low, but I go from losing one or two a month.....now its one or two every other game i play. Did something change or is it just my luck???

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Oh my...did injuries get turned up...I understand that SI feels injuries were low, but I go from losing one or two a month.....now its one or two every other game i play. Did something change or is it just my luck???

Nothing changed directly injury wise.

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On the plus side

1. The number of red and yellow cards appears to have been reduced especially around the center circle/half way line.

2. Better variety of goals

3. Better defending

4. Pressing all round seems to be better implemented

5. More realistic play better attuned to players technical skills

6. Number of long balls over the top being instantly controlled by players with poor first touch and technique seems to have been addressed

7. Wingers, full backs, inside forwards and strikers are now making better use of width, all play is not now being pushed into the center, overlapping now seems to be worth implementing.

8. Players now seem to get passes wrong (poor decision making), even in highlight mode, goal mouth incidents often feature passages of play with passing mistakes, adding to the realism.

My concerns at the moment are keepers dealing with crosses and corners, corners however, could be tactical.

Pretty good summary imo, we could do with Pkm's in the bugs forum for keeper errors because a lot of what people are claiming wasn't obvious in testing and though there might be some tactical effect the only way to be sure is to analyse the incidents.

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As this is the thread for feedback on the new patch, I just thought I'd add that, although the ME is significantly improved, I still watch in 3D and feel that the player movement and passing still looks and feels wrong. I watched my team last night and the passing at times was as though it was unintended, yet is described as a killer pass. The animations need to be far, far better than this. Some passes are nonchalant taps, yet they fly off and find their man like a cruise missile. There needs to be a relationship between the players force of pass and the actual ball movement for it to look and feel realistic.

There seems to be a certain range when the pass is bullet like, a weighting problem for that particular distance?

I agree it needs more animations but that doesn't just applyto passing.

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Surely you've seen this in real life though? I know I have.

Of course, the point is that it doesn't usually happen if the penalty is important. I made a thread about it a while back but it seems like SI are perfectly happy to keep it in the game which is a massive shame especially when you consider how easy it is on FM to get your defenders to score. It means if my CB scores 2 in a game I have to substitute him.

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Of course, the point is that it doesn't usually happen if the penalty is important. I made a thread about it a while back but it seems like SI are perfectly happy to keep it in the game which is a massive shame especially when you consider how easy it is on FM to get your defenders to score. It means if my CB scores 2 in a game I have to substitute him.

I doubt it would happen with a CB would it? Someone like Barkley is understandable as he plays up front and would want the hat-trick. I have seen it happen when the penalty is important, not as often but again it does happen. This combined with the previous point of it being a Striker on a hat-trick makes it even more realistic.

I bet if he had scored you wouldn't be saying anything... :cool:

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There seems to be a certain range when the pass is bullet like, a weighting problem for that particular distance?

I agree it needs more animations but that doesn't just apply to passing.

Thanks for the response. Good to know I'm not losing it. :) I agree it isn't just passing, like I said in the post (#384), running is a big issue too as the players seem to glide like a speed skater at times. Lots of other stuff too.

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Of course, the point is that it doesn't usually happen if the penalty is important. I made a thread about it a while back but it seems like SI are perfectly happy to keep it in the game which is a massive shame especially when you consider how easy it is on FM to get your defenders to score. It means if my CB scores 2 in a game I have to substitute him.

Why? Are you guaranteed to get a penalty if your centre back scores twice?

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Why? Are you guaranteed to get a penalty if your centre back scores twice?

You know he didn't mean that! :herman:

He meant, just incase he gets a pen, he won't want his CB taking it.....but you knew that. :brock:

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Why? Are you guaranteed to get a penalty if your centre back scores twice?

Haven't you got Xmas shopping to do? my present hasn't arrived yet :p

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Just a word on the height of the ball in 2D. We made a change for FM14 to reduce the height of the ball when viewing the match in 2D, however, there were complaints from some Users that they could no longer tell whether a ball was in the air or not. This lead to confusion when shots were narrowly going over the bar etc (it looked like the ball had gone in). It was decided that we should go back to the exaggerated height in 2D as a top-down view, by definition, does not provide the same visual feedback on the height of the ball.

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Haven't you got Xmas shopping to do? my present hasn't arrived yet :p

Nah i hired a girlfriend for this year so i could spend more time on here, i know how much you enjoy my postings :D

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A word for the regular jousters in here :) last weekend forum membership reached 200,000, though normally there are between one and two thousand logged in at peak times.

That represents less than one tenth of 1% of the people who bought the game, so how representative are we? :D

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A word for the regular jousters in here :) last weekend forum membership reached 200,000, though normally there are between one and two thousand logged in at peak times.

That represents less than one tenth of 1% of the people who bought the game, so how representative are we? :D

Extremely, of course!

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Is there 4-5 different versions of this game flowing around the world, just saying as there seems to be so many varied reports back concerning it. I myself never seen all the variety of bugs mentioned in the 1st two versions, indeed many weren't really bugs, just things needing a wee bit of tweaking i.e. accuracy of shots/headers, defensive positioning/closing down, shots hitting woodwork and the crossing from wide.

I think this is the 1st FM which really needs to be looked at seriously tactics wise and i think a lot of what people are experiencing are simply bad tactics. Playing players in their proper positions, making sure any attacking players have cover when going forward and having enough players in support/defend so as they don't conflict with each other, or indeed get in each others way.

It also seems to me it's the same culprits every new update, they were unbeatable but now this, that and the other is making this game impossible to play, nothing seems to make them happy.

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Is there 4-5 different versions of this game flowing around the world, just saying as there seems to be so many varied reports back concerning it. I myself never seen all the variety of bugs mentioned in the 1st two versions, indeed many weren't really bugs, just things needing a wee bit of tweaking i.e. accuracy of shots/headers, defensive positioning/closing down, shots hitting woodwork and the crossing from wide.

I think this is the 1st FM which really needs to be looked at seriously tactics wise and i think a lot of what people are experiencing are simply bad tactics. Playing players in their proper positions, making sure any attacking players have cover when going forward and having enough players in support/defend so as they don't conflict with each other, or indeed get in each others way.

It also seems to me it's the same culprits every new update, they were unbeatable but now this, that and the other is making this game impossible to play, nothing seems to make them happy.

I think that if you actually quiz certain people on their complaints, they then realise that actually, they haven't studied the game enough or asked for the proper advice first. Communication isn't automatically in everybody's skill set and although to the poster, their post may appear to be perfectly put, to others it appears to be a rant.

As you say there are the regulars but some people don't learn. I think a lot do though.

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Why? Are you guaranteed to get a penalty if your centre back scores twice?

What a helpful and well thought comment that is. You know what I meant, don't be so pedantic.

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Is there 4-5 different versions of this game flowing around the world, just saying as there seems to be so many varied reports back concerning it. I myself never seen all the variety of bugs mentioned in the 1st two versions, indeed many weren't really bugs, just things needing a wee bit of tweaking i.e. accuracy of shots/headers, defensive positioning/closing down, shots hitting woodwork and the crossing from wide.

I think this is the 1st FM which really needs to be looked at seriously tactics wise and i think a lot of what people are experiencing are simply bad tactics. Playing players in their proper positions, making sure any attacking players have cover when going forward and having enough players in support/defend so as they don't conflict with each other, or indeed get in each others way.

It also seems to me it's the same culprits every new update, they were unbeatable but now this, that and the other is making this game impossible to play, nothing seems to make them happy.

This is the nature of gaming and particularly FM, it's not the nature of complaints which surprises me but the dramatic and sometimes hysterical language they use.

Adjectives get overworked on internet forums :)

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This is the nature of gaming and particularly FM, it's not the nature of complaints which surprises me but the dramatic and sometimes hysterical language they use.

Adjectives get overworked on internet forums :)

I think in a quickly typed opinion we can all be guilty of it. I typed something out the other day which had the word 'everybody', which related to an opinion or an action. Clearly this was total b*ll*cks as it wasn't everybody.

Edit post is a great tool, as am I in some of my posts..hehe. :o

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Is there 4-5 different versions of this game flowing around the world, just saying as there seems to be so many varied reports back concerning it. I myself never seen all the variety of bugs mentioned in the 1st two versions, indeed many weren't really bugs, just things needing a wee bit of tweaking i.e. accuracy of shots/headers, defensive positioning/closing down, shots hitting woodwork and the crossing from wide.

I think this is the 1st FM which really needs to be looked at seriously tactics wise and i think a lot of what people are experiencing are simply bad tactics. Playing players in their proper positions, making sure any attacking players have cover when going forward and having enough players in support/defend so as they don't conflict with each other, or indeed get in each others way.

It also seems to me it's the same culprits every new update, they were unbeatable but now this, that and the other is making this game impossible to play, nothing seems to make them happy.

I think problem is that some may start with a fairly logical tactic and then obviously tweak it depending on how well it works. This is where sometimes, people cross that line between sound football logic and taking advantage of a weakness in the ME. When that certain ME weakness gets fixed, they go from unbeaten to losing games often.

Take an example of an earlier build. Fullbacks were not defending properly against wingers, sometimes appearing almost scared to tackle them. So, you notice your wingers are dominating fullbacks. You start changing tactics. EXPLOIT THE FLANKS! Not enough? RUN AT DEFENCE! Etc etc etc

This tactic eventually starts dominating opponents. Then in the next update, they've fixed fullback defending. Now your wingers constantly get the ball and run into a brick wall and the tactic is "broken". Maybe the wingers weren't good enough in the first place? Maybe their dribbling isn't as great as you thought? But because they were dangerous in the ME, you looked to take advantage of it. By the end of that update, every bit of your tactic relied on exploiting that flaw, whether you know it's a flaw or not.

People like that struggle from patch to patch.

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Dear SI.

Your game is the worst c**p since FM2012.

I bought your game since 1997.

I will no longer buy.

Take a break two years and build a new game from scratch.

For me, the middle of the season, teams such as: City, Roma, Juventus, Leverkusen, Liverpool are in the relegation zone.

Defenders make childish mistakes. Tactics constructed in accordance with the coaching craft not work.

It has to be a simulation of football?

Maybe you have a little bit of honor and you give me my money for the game?

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Dear SI.

Your game is the worst c**p since FM2012.

I bought your game since 1997.

I will no longer buy.

Take a break two years and build a new game from scratch.

For me, the middle of the season, teams such as: City, Roma, Juventus, Leverkusen, Liverpool are in the relegation zone.

Defenders make childish mistakes. Tactics constructed in accordance with the coaching craft not work.

It has to be a simulation of football?

Maybe you have a little bit of honor and you give me my money for the game?

Where's the SI forum post complaint template that is churning out this rubbish?

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Good update.

2 problems:

a) Goalkeepers are too bad. Silly mistakes happen way too often.

b) Corners dont work at all. Way too many goals for and against from corners! They either go in or they are horrible, shot behind the goal.

So if these 2 problems are fixed, im happy!

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After several games with the new update i will give my thoughts.

Several games aren't enough to a good understanding about the update, but anyway...

Btw, sorry about my english.

Good update! why?

* Goolkeepers. Dang, i was so sick about blasting to the up right corner and the GK (Buffon or just some kid) just catch every dang ball with 2 hands. Really. They now do some stupid moves, but its way more realist this way. 1x1 with keeper is now a real chance of goal :D

*Shooting. yay. Shooting outside penalty area is an option now. Player's stats matter. row z shots are more often. i like it.

*Player stats are important. In FM2014 it was all about tactic. Now player's ability can have a word (it's a pleasure to see Ben Arfa breaking all those defenders..)

*CPU vs CPU. Better teams are winning more often. Although the results seems a bit unrealistic :(

* Player's rating way better!!

*Corner's are worst. too many danger come from them.

*I scored a goal from free kick.... \o/

*Didn't see real changes in the way of defending. Still needs a tweak. If the AI wanted, players could pass the ball between them, like.., forever.

Anyway,

cheers. And keep the good job!

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Just a word on the height of the ball in 2D. We made a change for FM14 to reduce the height of the ball when viewing the match in 2D, however, there were complaints from some Users that they could no longer tell whether a ball was in the air or not. This lead to confusion when shots were narrowly going over the bar etc (it looked like the ball had gone in). It was decided that we should go back to the exaggerated height in 2D as a top-down view, by definition, does not provide the same visual feedback on the height of the ball.

It does seem absolutely extreme right now, however. I understand the reasoning but perhaps consider toning it down somewhat? So that it is noticeable and exaggerated, just not to this degree.

+ the pitch, ball and players are not aligned correctly when using the 2d view (corners appear to be taken several yards from the flag etc.), but that's been raised in the bugs forum already I see.

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Playing as 2 teams. PSG and Man United.

Pre-update. PSG 17 games into season, 15 wins and 2 draws. MUFC 18 games 14 wins 4 draws. Since update, both sides have lost the next 5 games against very lowly sides.

The change when speaking to players or the board is incredibly annoying and far too slow.

And the single most annoying thing is on your tactics screen, always defaulting to Selection instead of staying on my custom fitness.

I'm sure once my teams relearn the trained tactics it will get better. Just feels like I'm playing completely blind again. As for the slow conversations/interactions, I know this has been deliberate by SI to make it more realistic but when you have 10-15 players asking to go on loan etc it really is very very annoying.

Don't know if anyone has figured out how to stop the default to "Selection" on the tactics screen ?

Edit re the slow player/board interactions. So I've been constantly getting player loan requests which has been annoying enough, now because my tactic has turned to **** I've dropped to 4th with PSG and still not won a single game, lost 7 drawn 2 and now nearly every player in the 1st team squad ( 17 to date ) want to discuss the club underachieving and it's the same laborious slow process.

Exactly the same with MUFC, lost 8 drawn 1 since update and dropped to 3rd, players all wanting to discuss underachievement.

No idea who decided to slow it down ( I can understand if, as has been stated that the game needs to process stuff before giving a response but didn't it have to do that beforehand ). Anyways I'm at a complete loss now and have decided to quit playing for a few days and come back afresh to see if I feel any differently.

Atm I'm just about ready to chuck it in and shoot off to the shops to have a look for a new game to play that doesn't frustrate and irritate me as much as FM14.

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Either my computer is a secret Cardiff City fan :eek::D and hates Barcelona and many other big teams with passion or there is something a bit wrong in the way the game produces results for AI teams. I've tried many times to start a save in December 2013 (Finnish league start date) and everytime I check how the big leagues are doing I see very strange league tables. In EPL, Cardiff are almost every time topping the table and Arsenal, Liverpool or Man city are at the bottom end. In Spain, Barcelona are always stranded at the bottom, sometimes accompanied with Real Madrid. In Germany, Bayern are mid table or near bottom. In Italy, Juventus are usually at the bottom end; and in France, PSG is always mid table.

Here are two examples:

EPL2.jpg

ligaBBVA.jpg

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What year are those screenshots from?

Both Barca and Real at the bottom of the league after 17 games?

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What year are those screenshots from?

Both Barca and Real at the bottom of the league after 17 games?

December 2013. I didn't continue that save because of this. Tried again because I thought it was just a one off freak occurrence, but at the moment it seems it's not. I will try again to see if I can get at least one a bit more normal start.

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I think problem is that some may start with a fairly logical tactic and then obviously tweak it depending on how well it works. This is where sometimes, people cross that line between sound football logic and taking advantage of a weakness in the ME. When that certain ME weakness gets fixed, they go from unbeaten to losing games often.

Take an example of an earlier build. Fullbacks were not defending properly against wingers, sometimes appearing almost scared to tackle them. So, you notice your wingers are dominating fullbacks. You start changing tactics. EXPLOIT THE FLANKS! Not enough? RUN AT DEFENCE! Etc etc etc

This tactic eventually starts dominating opponents. Then in the next update, they've fixed fullback defending. Now your wingers constantly get the ball and run into a brick wall and the tactic is "broken". Maybe the wingers weren't good enough in the first place? Maybe their dribbling isn't as great as you thought? But because they were dangerous in the ME, you looked to take advantage of it. By the end of that update, every bit of your tactic relied on exploiting that flaw, whether you know it's a flaw or not.

People like that struggle from patch to patch.

Well that's just one aspect of it. The obvious, clearly controllable things. Like when full backs struggled to deal with wingers so people naturally set them to close down more and tackle harder. Then the patch rolls out and suddenly the full backs are all over the place because of those over-aggressive settings. This is something you can easily spot and deal with if you just take a step back and think about it more thoroughly.

Where it gets harder is when things change that we don't have a clear definable control over, like defensive line, decision making, closing down logic etc. When your team passes the ball well, the movement clicks and everything seems to be working only for the patch to arrive and suddenly your players dither, fail to make the obvious decisions, walk into opponents, close down illogical spaces etc, then it's hard to pinpoint what's going on and how to fix it. The new generation ME is too unforgiving for what it deems as bad tactical base. When something is not right with the more abstract instructions then you won't just struggle a bit, you'll get destroyed by each and every team regardless of personnel and your players will keep making mistakes you'd more associate with 6 year olds, not professional players with experience and a functioning brain. In that sense the game often tends to feel more like tuning a car engine rather than dealing with actual footballers with a mind of their own.

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Hewey, are you running the English and Spanish leagues in full detail or not? I'm going to try and reproduce this by starting my own game with a Finnish start date.

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Surely you've seen this in real life though? I know I have.

Except in real life it is an exception. In FM it is the rule, and it is followed 100% of the time regardless of which player is on two goals and how the game is going. If SI can't be bothered coding a situation- and player-based decision to "grab" the penalty from the designated penalty taker in order to get a hat-trick, then they should leave this rare occurence out of the game.

Balotelli and a few other self-centered players in the world would have the gall to do this. The vast majority of players would not unless the win is already secured (3-goal lead).

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i think we may need quick patch for too many own goals and still woodwork issue

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Hewey, are you running the English and Spanish leagues in full detail or not? I'm going to try and reproduce this by starting my own game with a Finnish start date.

I have all competition and match detail levels set as default, and loaded all European leagues with at least top level playable.

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Except in real life it is an exception. In FM it is the rule, and it is followed 100% of the time regardless of which player is on two goals and how the game is going. If SI can't be bothered coding a situation- and player-based decision to "grab" the penalty from the designated penalty taker in order to get a hat-trick, then they should leave this rare occurence out of the game.

I ask this since FM wasn't even created :D

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