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Stuart Warren

Football Manager 2014 - Update 14.2.2 - Feedback Thread

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Players casually strolling around with the ball is something that should pretty much never happen anyway, regardless of whether they end up stumbling into a teammate or not. This is a symptom of the sort of all-round indecisiveness that has plagued the last two FM games with the reworked ME. It was much better in earlier versions of FM14 ME IMO but is now back at almost FM13 level.

Players need to make decisions quicker and not default into that casual jog movement with the ball. They happily expose the ball to opponents while walking right towards them as well which should not happen - they either need to shield the ball, attempt to take the man on or look for a pass. If they can't decide which then sure enough, getting caught in possession is a realistic outcome but it should not play out as it does in FM. Very rarely should someone ever walk with the ball like that, much less with an opponent anywhere near them or right in front of them. As it is now it really looks like some sort of a zombie football game at times which is damn frustrating especially when trying to watch highlights at normal game speed.

Totally agree. The ball is too fast and the players are too slow. That's why we end up with speed skating! :)

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I think your opinions are quite clear now!

Out of interest, how are you playing now?

You started a thread in the Tactics forum some time ago and posted your tactic which had some issues, and then never really seemed to persevere and the thread fizzled out.

The relative merits and failings of the Match Engine are better understood if you have a reasonable benchmark.

Of course, but i think that saying "despite of the tactical errors, i can't understand why this transform the opponents in 11 George Best" means that is not important if i win or if i lose or even if i use wrong tactics.

Plus, if my tactic is wrong i can't understand why my possession is like theirs, the shots idem. And is 6-0.

By the way, some pages ago, i posted a similar state when i won 3 - 0 doing 3 shots over something like 12.

I just think that if a ME work in the way that if he find some errors in your tactic punish you so heavily and repeatedly, this means that the ME is wrong.

I think that if ME transform your tactical errors in individual technical errors of your mens, and in "George Best" the opponents whoever they are...is wrong.

That's the point, at least for my point of view.

If there are tactical errors, i LOVE that the game punish me...but showing me this. Not only that my players can't stop the ball, my keeper became cheese when the opponents increase their technical attributes with no limit and their keeper become Schmeichel. That's all.

However: played 3 seasons with Sassuolo, Serie A. 11th place, 10th place and 8th place. Surely not impressive results, but decent. I think it means that my tactic is not the "Gods of Football" tactic but also that is not so crappy. I say it for the records, because my opinion about ME - like i said before - is aside my results, considering that i never play this game winning all or FOR winning all and i never find a ME so ugly.

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I just think that if a ME work in the way that if he find some errors in your tactic punish you so heavily and repeatedly, this means that the ME is wrong.

This is where our opinions differ.

If your tactic has flaws and / or your assessment of the flow of a match is off the mark, and the ME doesn't heavily and repeatedly punish you, that is when I would be worried. It sounds as if you misread the match and failed to react, or failed to react appropriately. 6-0 is a proper going over and you will have had plenty of opportunities to take stock, watch the goals back and figure out what was wrong.

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One of the biggest problems with the animations is this year's introduction of the 'close cam'. I remember thinking at the time that it didn't seem to look much different to the normal 3D view in the older games, but when you go back to them, it is quite a difference. Having the player animations so close up highlights many of the deficiencies more. I mostly watch in 2D now, but for my Sittard save, I've taken to watching the elevated view, fully zoomed in, which I'm really enjoying.

I think the animations are struggling to make the game look 'real' this year. FM13 struggled in the same way. It all looks a bit 'mechanical'....too predictable.

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To be fair it does happen quite often. I watch every match in at least comprehensive, often full match so maybe I notice it more. This was two matches before the above clip. Watch the final part of it where two opposition players collide. Now ok, these players aren't great but I still see this in the premier league

I watch on comprehensive as well.

Do I see it a lot? possibly slightly more than we do IRL but not significantly, I do believe though the frequency is linked to some tactical choices made with some leading to examples being seen more often.

It is something I would expect to be tweaked, probably more to do with the pathing of the OTB players.

Linking back to your previous comment about using fullbacks on attacking, I've played around with mine and I've also come to the conclusion support is a much better duty an leads to better play in general. Do I have an attacking player in my back four? well I have a stopper at DC which is something close but not a true attacking duty.

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This is where our opinions differ.

If your tactic has flaws and / or your assessment of the flow of a match is off the mark, and the ME doesn't heavily and repeatedly punish you, that is when I would be worried. It sounds as if you misread the match and failed to react, or failed to react appropriately. 6-0 is a proper going over and you will have had plenty of opportunities to take stock, watch the goals back and figure out what was wrong.

Precisely. The ME should punish you, of course it should. It's very easy to see (amidst all the glitches :D) where your team is going wrong. That's one of the positives from the ME and the TC. Errors in your team's play/positioning can easily be seen and easily modified.

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People will always have issues with tactics (I'm including my self), there will always be good and bad ones and for sure that there isn't perfect or magic tactics. But when we see:

a) throw-in's being taken directly to the opponent (having available players to receive the ball)

b) a striker coming close to receive the ball without being instructed to do so (another throw-in issue

c) GK's and defenders making assists to opponent players

d) Defenders not reacting to long balls

e) Forwards that refuse to run with the ball to goal into the penalty box (having space to and instructed to drible more) and just shoots as soon they are outside the box

f) corners frequently going out

g) top players with 15 or more first touch attribute not able to control the ball

and so on, and so on, then it's no use telling us our tactics sucks.

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This is where our opinions differ.

If your tactic has flaws and / or your assessment of the flow of a match is off the mark, and the ME doesn't heavily and repeatedly punish you, that is when I would be worried. It sounds as if you misread the match and failed to react, or failed to react appropriately. 6-0 is a proper going over and you will have had plenty of opportunities to take stock, watch the goals back and figure out what was wrong.

Precisely. The ME should punish you, of course it should. It's very easy to see (amidst all the glitches :D) where your team is going wrong. That's one of the positives from the ME and the TC. Errors in your team's play/positioning can easily be seen and easily modified.

I think that our opinions are not so different, maybe my language knowledge damage me :D

I understand what you saying, but i'm saying that IF there are tactic errors it's not understandable that i hit the woodwork 2 times in one-on-one and they scores 2 goals from long shots. This can't be tactic. This is why i say that ME is bugged, not because i lose a game.

Also, i can understand that we love a challenging ME, but it has to be realistic: there is no way that every team play with the same IA, i think that also if you do tactical errors not anyone must understand it in one minutes and punishing. You play agains Juventus? One error and they punish you, seems fine to me.

You play agains Livorno? Oh, come on, no. Please forgive me at least once, mighty Livorno.

That's what i intend.

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People will always have issues with tactics (I'm including my self), there will always be good and bad ones and for sure that there isn't perfect or magic tactics. But when we see:

a) throw-in's being taken directly to the opponent (having available players to receive the ball)

b) a striker coming close to receive the ball without being instructed to do so (another throw-in issue

c) GK's and defenders making assists to opponent players

d) Defenders not reacting to long balls

e) Forwards that refuse to run with the ball to goal into the penalty box (having space to and instructed to drible more) and just shoots as soon they are outside the box

f) corners frequently going out

g) top players with 15 or more first touch attribute not able to control the ball

and so on, and so on, then it's no use telling us our tactics sucks.

That's what i wanted to say, but with bad english never came.

However, this is what i intend.

Of course i can wrong ALL in tactics, im not a genius and i doubt i'll ever be :(

But how can i correct something if i play a match fierly and i lose 6-0 only by individual errors while the opponents find the game of their life?

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e) Forwards that refuse to run with the ball to goal into the penalty box (having space to and instructed to drible more) and just shoots as soon they are outside the box

.

This one grinds my gears.

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I hate to make a GD faux pas and actually be positive, but of all of the issues which keep being mentioned in here, the vast majority are raised in the Bugs Forum, and acknowledged by SI as being works in progress.

As a reminder, PaulC referenced goalkeeper behaviour, corners and general individual play among the fixes.

Specifically referencing petergoddard above:

Throw ins are documented quite well in the Bugs Forum, with long flat bullet throws' effectiveness and generally throwing the ball to the AI acknowledged and in development. I really want the aimless throws to be sorted.

Is a striker moving to offer a target for a throw in a bad thing? More options means less likelihood of possession being lost at a throw. I don't know precisely what you mean here, and have seen no Bugs raised to that effect. If it annoys you sufficiently, then please raise a Bug Report or you may not see any fixes to this (if required).

GK and Defender assists to opponents are not something I see often enough to be concerned about personally. Again, I can't recall seeing this mentioned in the Bugs Forum, but I'm by no means The Oracle.

Defenders not reacting to long balls is an issue on occasions, but have been the exception rather than the rule for me. I would suggest that it isn't a prevalent enough issue to be truly bugged, but that's just my opinion.

Forwards shooting too early when they have time and space to get closer to goal is a definite issue. Expect to see improvements.

Corners are well documented and will be improved. There are too many, too many go out, and the headed clearances are often poor. Expect to see improvements.

Dodgy first touch is well known. Expect to see improvements.

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I hate to make a GD faux pas and actually be positive, but of all of the issues which keep being mentioned in here, the vast majority are raised in the Bugs Forum, and acknowledged by SI as being works in progress.

As a reminder, PaulC referenced goalkeeper behaviour, corners and general individual play among the fixes.

Specifically referencing petergoddard above:

Throw ins are documented quite well in the Bugs Forum, with long flat bullet throws' effectiveness and generally throwing the ball to the AI acknowledged and in development. I really want the aimless throws to be sorted.

Is a striker moving to offer a target for a throw in a bad thing? More options means less likelihood of possession being lost at a throw. I don't know precisely what you mean here, and have seen no Bugs raised to that effect. If it annoys you sufficiently, then please raise a Bug Report or you may not see any fixes to this (if required).

GK and Defender assists to opponents are not something I see often enough to be concerned about personally. Again, I can't recall seeing this mentioned in the Bugs Forum, but I'm by no means The Oracle.

Defenders not reacting to long balls is an issue on occasions, but have been the exception rather than the rule for me. I would suggest that it isn't a prevalent enough issue to be truly bugged, but that's just my opinion.

Forwards shooting too early when they have time and space to get closer to goal is a definite issue. Expect to see improvements.

Corners are well documented and will be improved. There are too many, too many go out, and the headed clearances are often poor. Expect to see improvements.

Dodgy first touch is well known. Expect to see improvements.

The striker coming close to get the ball is something that has been reported since fm13 and of course is bad a thing: If I want him somewhere else and I instruct him to be somewhere else it's for a reason and I don't need someone else telling me "well, but we think it's better this way".

Also forgot to mention when I instruct a player to get glose when setting short corners, I expect the player to really get glose and not just stand outside the penalty box being man-marked.

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The striker coming close to get the ball is something that has been reported since fm13 and of course is bad a thing: If I want him somewhere else and I instruct him to be somewhere else it's for a reason and I don't need someone else telling me "well, but we think it's better this way".

Also forgot to mention when I instruct a player to get glose when setting short corners, I expect the player to really get glose and not just stand outside the penalty box being man-marked.

How serious do you consider these bugs to be?

You don't appear to have raised them in the Bugs Forum, and nobody else has, so it is far from inconceivable that they aren't on SI's radar.

If you have examples that you can upload, then there is a chance that they will get fixed.

If you just mention them here, then there is a good chance that they won't.

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The striker coming close to get the ball is something that has been reported since fm13 and of course is bad a thing: If I want him somewhere else and I instruct him to be somewhere else it's for a reason and I don't need someone else telling me "well, but we think it's better this way".

Also forgot to mention when I instruct a player to get glose when setting short corners, I expect the player to really get glose and not just stand outside the penalty box being man-marked.

it could be that you give the striker too much creative freedom. That being said, my wingers shoot from byline 9/10 times is more serious problem.

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it could be that you give the striker too much creative freedom. That being said, my wingers shoot from byline 9/10 times is more serious problem.

Are they shooting, or just very bad at crossing, with mine I'm never 100% sure.

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Are they shooting, or just very bad at crossing, with mine I'm never 100% sure.

definitely shooting because the ball always hit the side net with occasionally the post, surely you can't cross out of the bound everytime

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definitely shooting because the ball always hit the side net with occasionally the post, surely you can't cross out of the bound everytime

lol. You've not seen my players try and take corners. Only about 1 in every 7 or 8 actually stays in play. Don't know what it is but my players can't cross for ****, granted they are only Skrill Prem level, but I'd be embarrassed to see it in Sunday League

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it could be that you give the striker too much creative freedom. That being said, my wingers shoot from byline 9/10 times is more serious problem.

well, but we cannot tweak the striker's CF can we ?

I don't think is a matter of CF: considering that I have good players and I always choose players with better mental attributes, if my striker would have less CF than he would follow my instruction (he has space and only one defender left), and go for the dribble, get inside the penalty box and shoot near the goal; on the other hand if my striker would have higher CF I expect him to go for the better decision fo his own and this would not be to shoot from distance because he's better than the defender, he can easily go pass him and shoot from near goal.

I think it's just poor decision from players that need to be improved.

For instance, when defending players just shoot the ball to anywhere (maybe avoiding beeing hassled) when they have perfectly secure passing options.

Considering what I have said before, I think it's understandble that people loose it a bit when they have bought a game, supposedly that has been tested before relasing, and then alongside to have to wait several months for an exagerated amount of issues for being fixed they still are being asked to present those same issues because if they don't SI can't identify them... after several patches. And on the top of this, we have to read "it's your tactics", "be constructive... or else".

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they still are being asked to present those same issues because if they don't SI can't identify them.

You mentioned a specific throw-in issue which isn't logged in the Bugs Forum, and as far as I can recall has not been mentioned in any of the feedback threads by any other users.

If you really want to have it investigated, then the best method of doing so is logging a Bug Report appropriately:

http://community.sigames.com/forumdisplay.php/365-Match-Engine-3D-and-Team-Talks

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/368795

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I play with a 4-3-3 with a DM. I don't know if it's a bug or it's me, so im asking.

It's possible that the fullbacks try to create the game instead of longpassing the ball every time they touch it?

Because in this way i find the game unplayable.

Sometimes they even create a goal action, and results are not so bad in the end.

But it's really ugly to see.

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Just starting 15/16 pre season with Chelsea and was pleasantly surprised to see that a testimonial was arranged for Petr Cech....nice touch. Well done SI

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The point is, Kondogbia slowly walks the ball into his own player.

I see this happening ALL THE TIME.

Players running with the ball directly into their teammates and losing the ball.

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If you are watching Sunday League you also see players getting in each others way several times every match

Funniest thing I have read for years on this site. I played Saturday and Sunday League for 20 years and can honestly say I have never seen two players collide like the clip shown. Going for the same ball in the air - yes, odd occasion going for the same ball to shoot - yes but one always moved out of the way, but never ever that sort of thing. An attempted pass back that goes for a corner - that would be more realistic than what happens in the clip. You cannot defend what happens in the clip as realistic play at all surely.

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I play with a 4-3-3 with a DM. I don't know if it's a bug or it's me, so im asking.

It's possible that the fullbacks try to create the game instead of longpassing the ball every time they touch it?

Because in this way i find the game unplayable.

Sometimes they even create a goal action, and results are not so bad in the end.

But it's really ugly to see.

Nothing.

I try "pass shorter" and "avoid risk passing" (or how it is in english) in the Individual instructions.

It came nothing.

They continue to furiously launch the ball to the CF. Often it's a lost ball, but sometimes it become a goal, cause the CF heading through passing put the others forwards in a one-on-one situation. For me it's good, in some way, but i repeat: i'd like to instruct my fullback to not kick the ball forward alone.

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Silly question but do you have "pass into space" as a shout?

I use this and it results in a lot of aimless balls being hit when there are better, shorter options available.

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Funniest thing I have read for years on this site. I played Saturday and Sunday League for 20 years and can honestly say I have never seen two players collide like the clip shown. Going for the same ball in the air - yes, odd occasion going for the same ball to shoot - yes but one always moved out of the way, but never ever that sort of thing. An attempted pass back that goes for a corner - that would be more realistic than what happens in the clip. You cannot defend what happens in the clip as realistic play at all surely.

To be fair I don't think you were too happy with the last version in FM13 iirc, so expecting any different a year on is kind of squiffy.

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God knows how robotic the players are on Very Rigid...

Not moreso. RFD determining off the ball forward movement has never been really linked to creative freedom, the main link is "mentality". I.e. it is the mentality structures in behind "fluidity" making some difference, with a special one being "balanced", what wwfan was likely after and trying to find out. "Balanced" means attack duty players are the most aggressive across all squad, as the duties determine mentality. Therefore, there is a higher likelyhood of FBs/a overlapping and starting very early runs in "balanced", as the higher the mentality, the earlier players are likely to time their runs. The "look for overlap" team instructions/shouts have always utilized that correlation, vastly increasing "mentality" for FBs for a start. That is also a big part why mentality and RFD were argued to be the most important settings prior. I don't think the in-game text covers this that well, as even after the reworked tactics tools, the implications are much the same still. http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/108695-Ditch-the-quot-mentality-quot-slider-altogether.?p=2869416&viewfull=1#post2869416 Obviously on more aggressive mentalities the FBs are generally more likely to bomb forward early on (but on balanced they are likely to do so earliest, when given attack duties).

I agree to the general point though – to an extent. The thing is that with RFD set to "often" it isn't the player's decision making determining the run, that is what the "mixed" setting was for (a lot of supporting roles come with this, as is hopefully clear from the text descriptions now). With RFDs maxed out the player would always make runs off the ball during an attack, has always been the case on either philosphy/fluidity. In terms of movement, players in older iterations have arguably been much more robotic, though. You could have your FBs sit back all the time, whereas they now are likely to push ahead to the DM strata or occasionally even come a little forward to support a wide midfielder in posessioin regardless here and there to an extent.

We could make an argument that generally players could employ even more common sense. But then I think SI were already critisized for making the FBs less robotic ca. post FM 2010 - players want to have full control over everything, but obviously that is neither how management nor football works to large extents, as indeed players apply common sense. In that sense, the following AMC role/duty combo, possibly an "attacking midfielder on attack duty) makes the AMC occupy the exact same space as the lone forward (possible supporting) also (and causing a huge gap in the centre of the park each time when in possession): http://i.imgur.com/xhq9Uw2.png It could be a PPM, but it is likely the role/duty. Additionally, none of the centre players is then given a role/duty that is going to close that gap. Neither player will adapt, they're just following their role/duty off the ball movement orders every time when going forward and they do so on any fluidity. Take the roles/duties out as they are though, and you also take out what 1) the biggest direct influence on team shape by far in the game and 2) concequently one of the biggest divisors between thought through, mediocre and just plain bad tactics.

If players would always adapt and close gaps and correct undermanned areas themselves all the while avoiding standing on each other's feet by default (or at least depending on their attributes), the way the ME is set up right now there'd be arguably not much left causing the difference, at least not when going forward. Additionally it wouldn't reflect football, as for all common sense applied during a match, there's also obvious effects of getting a tactics really really wrong. As players misinterpreted (and liked to use) the sliders previously as micro-tools that let them very precisely position d-lines, set exact zones for closing down, and much more (neither obviously was the case), further I don't know if taking even more micro-control out of the game would be a good thing... :)

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Has anyone raised concerns about the speed of the ball? What I mean is, so often a through ball or ball over the top runs like a marble on a snooker table. The striker can't catch it and it runs to the keeper.

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To be fair I don't think you were too happy with the last version in FM13 iirc, so expecting any different a year on is kind of squiffy.

All I would like as a long time lover of the game is that the ME resembles football and the same issues don't reoccur every release. Defending, corners, bad goalkeeping, bad finishing, endless arguments about clear cut chances, too little crossing, too much crossing, the ball moves too fast, the ball moves too slow, three at the back doesn't work, four at the back doesn't work, bad passing, etc etc etc. It's just the same old complaints and it gets frustrating I'm sure being told on a "feedback" thread that it's always the users tactics that are to blame when the same issues keep reoccurring.

FM13 wasn't a bad game. Chances in a game were pretty real life like 6 - 10 each in my matches. The only thing that annoyed me was a lack of through balls and the lack of different types of goals. FM14 however seems to have chances in the high 20's at times. Maybe that is my tactics but things like players running into each other, goalkeepers turning in mid air and constant poor decisions do get frustrating. Then you get workaround suggestions to help the continuous blocked crosses or mark opposition full backs to get players to track back (mainly a 12 and 13 issue) but surely all we want is a game that works rather than workarounds!!

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Silly question but do you have "pass into space" as a shout?

I use this and it results in a lot of aimless balls being hit when there are better, shorter options available.

With me, nothing is silly! :D

However no :(

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I've played FM/CM for 11 years and for the first time ever I'm uninstalling the game. It's a joke that 3 and a half months after release it's still like this. I've won games and I've lost games but it's just not realistic. In order to win a game you need to score three because the opposition will definitely score from a corner and the defence will make a mistake every other game. I know all the usual fan boys will be screaming that it's tactics but this is my feedback.

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I've just realised having individual player instructions on multiple tactics basically messes it all up. Mainly use 4-4-1-1 and 4-1-2-2-1, with the 4-4-1-1 I have a dlp(D) and b2b (S) behind a Treq. However, if on the 4-1-2-2-1 I put an individual player instruction for a player at say the AP(A) role, then it switches his B2B role on the 4-4-1-1 to AP(A) as well. Surely it shouldn't work that way? Luckily I've noticed it about 6 games in, will abandon using them for now.

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Not moreso. RFD determining off the ball forward movement has never been really linked to creative freedom, the main link is "mentality". I.e. it is the mentality structures in behind "fluidity" making some difference, with a special one being "balanced", what wwfan was likely after and trying to find out. "Balanced" means attack duty players are the most aggressive across all squad, as the duties determine mentality. Therefore, there is a higher likelyhood of FBs/a overlapping and starting very early runs in "balanced", as the higher the mentality, the earlier players are likely to time their runs. The "look for overlap" team instructions/shouts have always utilized that correlation, vastly increasing "mentality" for FBs for a start. That is also a big part why mentality and RFD were argued to be the most important settings prior. I don't think the in-game text covers this that well, as even after the reworked tactics tools, the implications are much the same still. http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/108695-Ditch-the-quot-mentality-quot-slider-altogether.?p=2869416&viewfull=1#post2869416 Obviously on more aggressive mentalities the FBs are generally more likely to bomb forward early on (but on balanced they are likely to do so earliest, when given attack duties).

I agree to the general point though – to an extent. The thing is that with RFD set to "often" it isn't the player's decision making determining the run, that is what the "mixed" setting was for (a lot of supporting roles come with this, as is hopefully clear from the text descriptions now). With RFDs maxed out the player would always make runs off the ball during an attack, has always been the case on either philosphy/fluidity. In terms of movement, players in older iterations have arguably been much more robotic, though. You could have your FBs sit back all the time, whereas they now are likely to push ahead to the DM strata or occasionally even come a little forward to support a wide midfielder in posessioin regardless here and there to an extent.

We could make an argument that generally players could employ even more common sense. But then I think SI were already critisized for making the FBs less robotic ca. post FM 2010 - players want to have full control over everything, but obviously that is neither how management nor football works to large extents, as indeed players apply common sense. In that sense, the following AMC role/duty combo, possibly an "attacking midfielder on attack duty) makes the AMC occupy the exact same space as the lone forward (possible supporting) also (and causing a huge gap in the centre of the park each time when in possession): http://i.imgur.com/xhq9Uw2.png It could be a PPM, but it is likely the role/duty. Additionally, none of the centre players is then given a role/duty that is going to close that gap. Neither player will adapt, they're just following their role/duty off the ball movement orders every time when going forward and they do so on any fluidity. Take the roles/duties out as they are though, and you also take out what 1) the biggest direct influence on team shape by far in the game and 2) concequently one of the biggest divisors between thought through, mediocre and just plain bad tactics.

If players would always adapt and close gaps and correct undermanned areas themselves all the while avoiding standing on each other's feet by default (or at least depending on their attributes), the way the ME is set up right now there'd be arguably not much left causing the difference, at least not when going forward. Additionally it wouldn't reflect football, as for all common sense applied during a match, there's also obvious effects of getting a tactics really really wrong. As players misinterpreted (and liked to use) the sliders previously as micro-tools that let them very precisely position d-lines, set exact zones for closing down, and much more (neither obviously was the case), further I don't know if taking even more micro-control out of the game would be a good thing... :)

The whole point is that FM should allow both approaches, but FM14 isn't very good at that. If set to Very Fluid, a relatively sensible tactic should allow the players to adapt to the situation and make decisions based on their own judgement. If set to Very Rigid, the players should adhere to the instructions to a much higher degree. I don't care about the particulars in the game of what fluidity actually does - the idea of fluidity is that of having a very specific game-plan where every player is a cog in the machinery, versus a general gameplan where the players are individual machines in a network. If at Very Fluid players on attacking duties are encouraged to ignore all defensive work, then that instruction does the exact opposite of what it should.

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this is my last straw, I lost all hopes for this ME. My strike obviously got a clear 1 on 1 chance then he magically decided to back pass to my cm outside the box

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OVMZF0K.jpg

dbIGJmG.jpg

this is my last straw, I lost all hopes for this ME. My strike obviously got a clear 1 on 1 chance then he magically decided to back pass to my cm outside the box

I am pretty sure that somebody in this forum will reply you with comment "oh well it is your tactic!". However as mod has previously mentioned, player's decision making in the final third will be looked at in the next patch.

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I need to reinstall the damn game after the update was terminated due to a computer crash

3.9GB to redownload

fuuuuu

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I am pretty sure that somebody in this forum will reply you with comment "oh well it is your tactic!". However as mod has previously mentioned, player's decision making in the final third will be looked at in the next patch.

To be fair, it is Nicklas Bendtner.

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Has anyone raised concerns about the speed of the ball? What I mean is, so often a through ball or ball over the top runs like a marble on a snooker table. The striker can't catch it and it runs to the keeper.

God yes. Over and over again. 'They' have accepted that it isn't perfect but aren't doing anything about it with this fix. Player movement and ball speed are poor at the moment. Way back in this thread there is a bit where we discuss it. Basically there isn't ever an occasion where a pass with backspin is simulated in the ME. It always skids off as you describe.

The other day I had an instance where a defender headed it away (weakly judging by his movement and the ball arc) from the edge of the D. It managed to run off past the halfway line and out of play. Just looked ridiculous.

Edit: They have said they will look at it, at some point.

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After I updated my game to the 14.2.2, I can't play anymore. Because in every game there are 2 or 3 players injured and between the games there are other players who are injuring.

Before this patch it wasn't happening. I serached for topics related to this in the forum and the only thing I found was that it could be related to the training. But why only now after this patch it's happening this?

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After I updated my game to the 14.2.2, I can't play anymore. Because in every game there are 2 or 3 players injured and between the games there are other players who are injuring.

Before this patch it wasn't happening. I serached for topics related to this in the forum and the only thing I found was that it could be related to the training. But why only now after this patch it's happening this?

As far as I'm aware, there were no changes affecting this in 14.2.2, so would just be coincidence in that case.

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As far as I'm aware, there were no changes affecting this in 14.2.2, so would just be coincidence in that case.

Correct - nothing in 14.2.2 or 14.2.1 affected the ME (and therefore injuries) in any way.

In fact, I don't believe that injuries have been tuned at all in FM14 because soak tests reveal that injuries are fractionally lower in FM14 than in real life.

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soak tests reveal that injuries are fractionally lower in FM14 than in real life.

I have a very hard time believing that - I'm exactly 3 weeks into the pre-season for my second season in my current save and seven(!) of my players have suffered from injuries during that period. Two of these players are out for months (2 to 3 months) and 3 others suffer from medium-term injuries (at least 4 weeks). How is that 'fractionally lower' than in RL?

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We could make an argument that generally players could employ even more common sense. But then I think SI were already critisized for making the FBs less robotic ca. post FM 2010 - players want to have full control over everything, but obviously that is neither how management nor football works to large extents, as indeed players apply common sense. In that sense, the following AMC role/duty combo, possibly an "attacking midfielder on attack duty) makes the AMC occupy the exact same space as the lone forward (possible supporting) also (and causing a huge gap in the centre of the park each time when in possession): http://i.imgur.com/xhq9Uw2.png It could be a PPM, but it is likely the role/duty. Additionally, none of the centre players is then given a role/duty that is going to close that gap. Neither player will adapt, they're just following their role/duty off the ball movement orders every time when going forward and they do so on any fluidity. Take the roles/duties out as they are though, and you also take out what 1) the biggest direct influence on team shape by far in the game and 2) concequently one of the biggest divisors between thought through, mediocre and just plain bad tactics.

If players would always adapt and close gaps and correct undermanned areas themselves all the while avoiding standing on each other's feet by default (or at least depending on their attributes), the way the ME is set up right now there'd be arguably not much left causing the difference, at least not when going forward. Additionally it wouldn't reflect football, as for all common sense applied during a match, there's also obvious effects of getting a tactics really really wrong. As players misinterpreted (and liked to use) the sliders previously as micro-tools that let them very precisely position d-lines, set exact zones for closing down, and much more (neither obviously was the case), further I don't know if taking even more micro-control out of the game would be a good thing... :)

There's a fine balance to be struck there between things we should have control over and instances where common sense applies. What we expect to get out of the tactical interface and ME is the sense that we are communicating with our players - we see them doing something we don't like so we can tell them to try and do differently. Issues arise when the ME logic starts to interfere with that 'communication' process.

An example to explain what I mean - whenever I try to get my team play a build up game from the back starting from the GK I keep seeing a specific unwanted pattern that goes like this: GK short pass to the LB -> LB long whack over everyone's heads. Over and over again. This is the game logic taking over, whatever passing instructions I try and give the LB he for some reason won't recognise any short options in midfield nor will he try and go back to the CB's or the GK because his decision making process determines that an aimless punt is the best (safest?) option. The problem with that is that it breaks the immersion of that manager to player communication because I can't just tell the guy to not be a dick and do as I say for once. I wan't him to try and follow the instructions and when these instructions start getting him in trouble then common sense could take over or it would be down to me as a manager to adapt. That would be good feedback. Another problem with the pattern described is the lack of adaptability in the first place - if it's common sense for the guy to keep whacking it then at some point it's also common sense to realise that he's giving the ball away virtually every time, and then try to adapt. I mean in reality the midfield players themselves who are asking for the ball only to see it sail over everyone's heads and out of play time after time would take it into their own hands and tell the guy to sort himself out. THAT is the kind of adaptability we should expect out of the game.

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I have a very hard time believing that - I'm exactly 3 weeks into the pre-season for my second season in my current save and seven(!) of my players have suffered from injuries during that period. Two of these players are out for months (2 to 3 months) and 3 others suffer from medium-term injuries (at least 4 weeks). How is that 'fractionally lower' than in RL?

You've just been unlucky and are having a bit of an injury crisis. This happens. There were teams in the EPL last season that had 10+ players out injured for spells at one point or another.

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I have a very hard time believing that - I'm exactly 3 weeks into the pre-season for my second season in my current save and seven(!) of my players have suffered from injuries during that period. Two of these players are out for months (2 to 3 months) and 3 others suffer from medium-term injuries (at least 4 weeks). How is that 'fractionally lower' than in RL?

Because you're taking your situation and extrapolating it across a massive set. The SI soak tests will take hundreds, if not thousands of results to make up a statistical analysis. You're taking yours. Personally the injuries in my save aren't that high at all. The only times I remember getting multiple injuries after games, it's those of the 3-5 days variety, which I'd say is pretty realistic. I can only remember a handful of games where I've had to make all of my subs due to injuries, and that was when the opposition appeared to be targeting certain players. So if you add mine and yours, the average is coming down. If you then add hundreds more, they'll start to approach the results SI are seeing.

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I have a very hard time believing that - I'm exactly 3 weeks into the pre-season for my second season in my current save and seven(!) of my players have suffered from injuries during that period. Two of these players are out for months (2 to 3 months) and 3 others suffer from medium-term injuries (at least 4 weeks). How is that 'fractionally lower' than in RL?

It's just bad luck. Have a look at the injury table if every team has 7+ injured players then there might be something wrong but if it's just you, well then you have a injury streak which happens from time to time.

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Out of curiosity I started a new save and went back to a tactic that worked fine after the 1st update after the Beta release.

Playing a 4-2-3-1

Strikers poor/playing a high line lose goals over top/passing atrocious/lose goals from o.g's at corners/passing poor etc etc

Change to a 4-4-2/4-1-3-2 system that took me ages to work on and suddenly, strikers are scoring, defence is better and less og's etc

Now the original 4-2-3-1 was made specifically to counteract the bugs in the ME at the time, the then new update came out 14.2.1, my tactic then didn't work so well and I had to then re think my tactic to counteract the new bugs that we have and the ones got rid off.

Basically what I'm saying is all these changing and tweaking of tactics shouldn't have to happen, a good solid tactic should work whatever the update with just the tiniest of tweaks and adjustments, not a whole radical overhaul of them. This was the same in last years game and I hated it for that reason, FM12 was a joy to play but since then ME has been messed around with too much and it now seems bug ridden.

Rant over.

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I may be getting existential here, but how closely linked is how you are doing in a save to how good you think the ME is? Some complain of the football not being very good to watch, which is an exception to the rule, but I'm convinced that if you're doing well, you'll forgive a lot of sins, and if you're doing badly, you might start seeing things that aren't there. Two sides of the same coin. You get a lot of people saying that FM12 was a joy to play, but given there was no collision detection in the ME, how exactly could people look at that and say that it was a good representation of football? So instead, is FM12 being held up because it took a lot less work to be successful at it? And is that success leading to more people being happier with the game, despite it's deficiencies?

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