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Stuart Warren

Football Manager 2014 - Update 14.2.2 - Feedback Thread

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I think what you're saying relates heavily to what I read in an interview in the first edition of the magazine Cleon (again) writes. He interviewed a real life coach, who gave his view on how FM is compared to real life.

He basically said that the tactical side of the game doesn't have enough depth. Apparently, in real life there are four (if I remember correctly) phases of play.

Your problem will be solved if these are all implemented into FM. Basically the game shouldn't be as simple as attacking and defensive instructions. There is far more to a game of football than just that, such as how your team reacts in the situation you give.

Without it I feel users will always 'struggle' to control every aspect within the FM world.

Back to my original point, I found it amazing just how much I noticed the difference in simply changing an instruction from support to attack. The players general position would be changed quite significantly, giving the desired effect. Without pausing, I doubt I'd have noticed either the need, or the change.

While I agree with what you're saying and would love to see the four phases in FM, I don't think it should be added. Based on this version's feedback threads (I haven't even looked in the tactics forum) there are a lot of users struggling. Maybe even more than previous years. Complicating things further by adding another two phases, might lose these people completely.

Not to mention the added difficulty for SI of balancing the ME with 4 input screens.

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I did mention it somewhere (probably an earlier feedback thread), but I would like this too. Your tactic will be played out (see it as the team practicing maybe?) by giving the ball randomly to a defender and from there your team attacks. There should be dummies or fake defenders (defenders that hassle but don't tackle) so that it would at least reflect how your tactic might play out in a game.

Yeah, it would really take the game to the next level if training could be done interactively on a training pitch through the week, where you could properly test out formations and see for yourself the positioning of your players in phases of attacking/defending, rather than try to work it out when you're in the middle of a must-win game!

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The testing team should actually test these types of tactics to see why they're successful. It must be exploiting something.

How do you test this kinda thing tho? And should they spend time testing the ME against unrealistic inputs? Lets be fair, these kinda tactics are not created to play good football, or to get a striker scoring, they are built purely for one thing, exploiting the ME to win. Which is up to the person using it, if all they care about is winning, then fine let them use tactics like this. I personally think SI should spend very little time looking at tactics like this, and concentrate on making sure when logical situations are put into the ME, that logical things come back out.

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While I agree with what you're saying and would love to see the four phases in FM, I don't think it should be added. Based on this version's feedback threads (I haven't even looked in the tactics forum) there are a lot of users struggling. Maybe even more than previous years. Complicating things further by adding another two phases, might lose these people completely.

Not to mention the added difficulty for SI of balancing the ME with 4 input screens.

I agree totally.

It's just good to know that there are reasons why our tactics break down occasionally. Without the four phases, some things we see may appear frustrating and out of our control. With the four phases, it would be a nightmare to get going and control - in my opinion.

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How do you test this kinda thing tho?

If it was me, I'd use that same tactic and look for unrealistic defensive behaviour in the other team. Maybe the defence isn't smart enough to pick up runs from deep? Maybe the defence is too eagre to close down, since there's no striker, leaving massive gaps to exploit? The fixes might benefit sound tactics as well as eliminating the effectiveness of exploit tactics.

And should they spend time testing the ME against unrealistic inputs?

For the reasons above, a little time should be spent on it. A few hours would already make a difference.

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I've been watching some full matches using the 3d view to experiment with tactics and I have a few observations.

Currently the match engine does not produce anything resembling actual football. Games don't flow properly.

There are far too many tackles and fouls and players don't seem to be able to produce anything if another player is within ten yards.

There are too many successful last ditch challenges in the box, too many blocks.

Players often just shoot directly at players who are right in front of them. First touch is terrible even for great players.

Dribbling is utterly ineffective. It very rarely results in a successful take-on even if the player has lightning pace and great dribbling, if they are anywhere near another player then they will lose the ball.

I often see tackling tennis where a player from one side will win the ball back and then immediately be tackled by a player from the other side who is then tackled himself by the same player. Or one player will tackle 2 or 3 players in succession after losing the ball after each successful tackle.

Attributes don't seem to have any influence on the chances to make a successful tackle. Strikers are often 100% successful with tackles despite a tackling attribute of 3 or 5.

It's very hard to tell a brilliant player from an average one by watching them during a game. There's very little skillful attacking play, dribbling or clever passing. Passing is particularly poor and there seems to be no real difference between my defender with a passing attribute of 9 and my playmaker with 17.

It's a mess and it's not acceptable for a game that isn't in beta. I'm not complaining about winning or losing or failing to score, this is about the kind of football I see when I watch a full match involving Premier League teams. It looks like the worst kind of amateur football.

I have told them in the bug forum about the amount tackle attempts, providing some evidence with PKM . But it looks like SI dont know how to solve it. You can have a look in bug forum. Actually someone has asked Why Ozil can not hold the ball in tactics forum. But you know, everyone must answer a standard answer, tactics problem something like that. They never have a look on the whole match . What it happens. Everyone can also tackle well and win the ball back against anyone.

Dribble is ineffective because of high tackle success rate.

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Dribbling is not ineffective. my inside forwards and wingers get past players constantly, and last year my player won goal of the season, by dribbling past 3 players and scoring.

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If it was me, I'd use that same tactic and look for unrealistic defensive behaviour in the other team. Maybe the defence isn't smart enough to pick up runs from deep? Maybe the defence is too eagre to close down, since there's no striker, leaving massive gaps to exploit? The fixes might benefit sound tactics as well as eliminating the effectiveness of exploit tactics.

For the reasons above, a little time should be spent on it. A few hours would already make a difference.

But then your asking them to get the ME to combat an unrealistic set up, when that time could be spent making sure the logical things work as they should.

Anyway, its possible they do, but they wont be coming out and explaining what that tactic exploits in their ME, because then people will go looking for it.

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Just a thought, but on the "strikers have 100% successful tackles" point, could that not be a combination of them having less tackles to make - and therefore less chances to miss them - and also being directly up against players who aren't necessarily the best dribblers or passers?

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But then your asking them to get the ME to combat an unrealistic set up, when that time could be spent making sure the logical things work as they should.

Anyway, its possible they do, but they wont be coming out and explaining what that tactic exploits in their ME, because then people will go looking for it.

If it's something like defenders not picking up runs from deep properly, then we'd all benefit from a fix. They don't even have to say anything. If something like that gets fixed, that's more than enough.

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Dribbling is not ineffective. my inside forwards and wingers get past players constantly, and last year my player won goal of the season, by dribbling past 3 players and scoring.

to underestand whether it is ineffective or not, you just need to check who are the highest amount of tackle per game in your league. You just look at which position are them. Than you will understand what I have said. Than you can check where is the difference between the state in your league in the game and the stats in real world situation. The tackle problem has been became worse since 14.20

http://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/2/Seasons/3853/Stages/7794/PlayerStatistics/England-Premier-League-2013-2014

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The return of with/without ball positions on the pitch would be awesome, too :)

exactly.

in this way you can control how the team is shaped in any given situation.

Even when i played u15 for a small town club, we practised patterns and shape. I want to be able to tell my players where to be and be in total control of the shape. If i want this now, i´d be forced to chose rigid, but i´d still have to settle for much less influence, when it comes to positioning.

So SI: could you bring this back?

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No i wont, because i watch the games, i see my players, and opposition players dribbling past players every single game. If my striker makes one tackle in a game, and its succesful then he will show 100% success, what will that tell me? A striker tackling a centre half with dribbling 3, flair 2, is not going to tell me anything about the me. Watching games and using my eyes will.

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But then your asking them to get the ME to combat an unrealistic set up, when that time could be spent making sure the logical things work as they should.

Anyway, its possible they do, but they wont be coming out and explaining what that tactic exploits in their ME, because then people will go looking for it.

I think you are confusing the definition of logic.

That exploit tactic is not illogical, its impractical.

Illogical would be to request you players to fly through the air.

It's also illogical to find that impractical tactics should be effective. So yes, these tactics should be worked out. After all, they obviously exploit a scenario that the AI does not consider probable, something that is not correct, since everything can happen, it's just not bound to be effective. Isn't that what everyone loves saying here anyway? "It's football, anything can happen"?

By sorting out what exploit these tactics use, it is also entirely possible that the game will move towards players having a more realistically fluid game as well.

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I wish I had a picture of Novak Djokovic doing a 'facepalm', it would be strangely appropriate here.

For ages, I've been trying to construct a decent tactic for my teams. I have followed the advice from wwwfan's 12-step guide, and extensively read the 'pairs and combinations' guide in that section too, but despite this, I'm still struggling with it.

As interesting and useful as the above guides are, there relevance to developing successful tactics for FM vary greatly from update to update as the ME lurches from 'plugging' one hole whilst creating 2 more.

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As interesting and useful as the above guides are, there relevance to developing successful tactics for FM vary greatly from update to update as the ME lurches from 'plugging' one hole whilst creating 2 more.

Except that is patently untrue.

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As interesting and useful as the above guides are, there relevance to developing successful tactics for FM vary greatly from update to update as the ME lurches from 'plugging' one hole whilst creating 2 more.

That's actually the complete opposite of what is true. If you do read the guides and follow the advice, you will find that your tactic will play nearly the same whatever ME, because the tactic will be logical and coherent. If you don't follow the guide and have a poorly working tactic, that may vary more wildly based on ME quirks.

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A few bugs on my game:

1) Defending corners - how many times does your defender head a corner clear, but it goes straight to their player who volleys it into the back of the net? This has happened numerous times with me and also on my brothers save (who has different tactics set up for defending corners).

2) Injuries - I'm 2 games into my second season and I have had a centre midfielder out with knee tendonitis for 7-8 months, 2 key midfielders out with pulled hamstrings and my 2 first choice full backs out. The injuries are unrealistic and way over the top, you pretty much need 3 different squads with strength in depth to compete, but as you can only register 25 players it's impossible!

3) Strikers one on one finishing - how many of these get missed? It's incredible! I have Shane Long and Abel Hernandez up front, who are both 15's for finishing and both have quite high composure stats. I also have Marco Di Vaio and Eduardo who's finishing is 17's for both. All 4 strikers are proven goal scorers yet when it comes to a one on one, I think they are lucky to get a 1 in 10 rate! Also, strikers who are miles wide and go for a ridiculous, unrealistic shot which has no chance of going in winds me up when a cross to an unmarked player for a tap in is a much better option!

4) Players taking too many long range ridiculous shots - even when I put their instructions to "shoot less often", they still appear to take 30-35 yard shots at will which have no hope of going in! I have even told my strikers to shoot less often now because of the ridiculous shots they take when they are miles out wide, but that still doesn't stop them!

5) Dominating games and losing - I can handle this happen a few times, but I would say four fifths of the games I lost in my previous season was with my team having more shots than the opposition and also, more shots on target. This goes back to my players taking ridiculous shots despite the "shoot less often" instruction being set, as I remember one game I had 27 shots with only 4 being on target! However, there are frequently games where I have say, 12 shots on target with a good 50 percent of those being one on ones which my strikers have struck straight at their keeper or their keeper has dived and saved. Yet the opposition have one chance which is usually tucked away with ease by a player who has a poor finishing stat!

I could go on but these are the main things that are annoying me. I'm on version 14.2.1, it's unrealistic, it's incredibly frustrating and it's spoiling my enjoyment. I was hoping by now, the game would at least be running with a hint of realism. But sadly, it's not.

Nobody has responded to my post yet so can I ask if anyone is having the same frustrations as me, or are my frustrations just a one off and it's my tactics etc that need to be looked at?

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Your injuries complaint is nothing more than bad luck I'm afraid, there are no underlying issues with injuries on the current build of the game.

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to underestand whether it is ineffective or not, you just need to check who are the highest amount of tackle per game in your league. You just look at which position are them. Than you will understand what I have said. Than you can check where is the difference between the state in your league in the game and the stats in real world situation. The tackle problem has been became worse since 14.20

http://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/2/Seasons/3853/Stages/7794/PlayerStatistics/England-Premier-League-2013-2014

Seeing as you you're compairing stats and numbers: How do you explain average dribblers in FM 2014 amassing "stats" as if they'd be Messi and Ronaldo combined?

Mj8HUV9.png

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1773581-top-10-dribblers-in-la-liga-this-season

That tactics above doesn't look all that "diablo" to me. Holidayed a couple o weeks into the season and have seen no miracle results or massive overperformance at all.

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As interesting and useful as the above guides are, there relevance to developing successful tactics for FM vary greatly from update to update as the ME lurches from 'plugging' one hole whilst creating 2 more.

The truth is, with each update which contains a ME update, the way the ME plays out your instructions will be slightly different due to the tweaks made to the importance/effectiveness of individual aspects of play.

Realising this, it is then obvious that your tactics may need tweaking slightly. However, the guides are still very much relevant.

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Nobody has responded to my post yet so can I ask if anyone is having the same frustrations as me, or are my frustrations just a one off and it's my tactics etc that need to be looked at?

I think you need to be having a good look at the games you're playing. You mention a lot of long shots. Whenever one of your players takes what you deem to be a ridiculous long shot, rewind the match a bit and have a good look at what is happening. Does he have passing options open? Is he being pressurized? Once you've figured out why he is shooting, then you can look to maybe changing your tactics around a bit to reduce those long shots. It's very possible it has nothing to do with his instructions, and everything to do with what his teammates are doing.

Similar sort of thing for point 5. How are you conceding those goals? As you are dominating these games, are you playing very attacking and leaving lots of space for a counter attack?

It's probably worth making a detailed post on the tactics forum for some of the issues I've discussed.

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overall the ME is good however there is one thing that bothers me is the amount of 1 on 1 with the gk that always go wide or shot straight at the keeper.

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Oh, as a moderator i forgot you have a monopoly on the truth.

The guides expand on some of the fundamental concepts that underpin both the game and real life football such as movement between the lines, creating space, and players interact with each others movement, these concepts don't change update to update, or even version to version. So yes, what you said was patently untrue and incorrect.

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Nobody has responded to my post yet so can I ask if anyone is having the same frustrations as me, or are my frustrations just a one off and it's my tactics etc that need to be looked at?

1. I think corners are still being looked at.

2. Injuries - nothing wrong with them. Look at the Arsenal squad IRL every season. Nightmare.

3. Can you provide screenshots of you match stats to back up the 1 in 10 theory? This should show how many CCC's you had and how many were converted.

4. Have you tried using 'work ball into box'? That basically means they will - well - work the ball into the box and not try a long shot as often.

5. Almost the same as point 4. If your players are wasting chances with poor shot selection, tell them not to. But again, a screen shot or two of your stats would be good, along with your tactical set up. If you posted these in the tactics forum, or even possibly on here you would get a yes or no on whether your tactics are good or not, and hopefully what to do to remedy your problems.

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Not Reading or Following House Rules

Although we appreciate constructive criticism, when a new game is released we've often seen destructive criticism and personal insults aimed at SI staff and the forum moderating team and this simply cannot be tolerated. This form of criticism not only spreads false information about game development, but poisons the forum experience for all our users, including those employed by SI. These forums are intended to be a source of help and information to SI's consumer base, and this purpose is obscured when team members have to spend inordinate lengths of time defending themselves against snipes, insults, deliberate falsehoods, prejudiced misinterpretations and destructive attacks on their integrity and ability.

We feel that certain users' posts over-step the mark in terms of the above and therefore we have procedures to address this. We understand that our community is incredibly passionate about the game and very much wants every new incarnation of Football Manager to be our best. We as a developer share that – we want FM to be the best Football Management experience our users have ever encountered.

We really do value constructive feedback. The game simply wouldn’t be what it is today without the huge amount of support, feedback and suggestions we’ve received over the years. It’s just when users overstep the line, including personal attacks on SI employees and moderators and a plethora of posts which seem intended to start arguments rather than generate constructive critical debate, we have to take stronger action. We would love to become more engaged with our forums, but feel that the current climate is preventing that from being an achievable goal. Therefore if anyone posts in a manner which is continually disrespectful, either to the developers, moderators or other users they will be banned.

Most of this thread has been pretty good, well fantastic really, with bringing up issues, but the last two days have been appalling to be honest, and it really needs to stop. The most important feedback is when things arent working, but that really doesn't excuse some of the things that being posted.

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Yet another bug, I'm winning 2-0 away to Newcastle at half time who are down to 10 men. My half time team talk is "don't get complacent" and the majority of my team are confused and demotivated by this team talk instruction! The game ends up finishing 3-3, so I throw away a 2 goal lead against 10 men. I aggressively slate my team, furious they have thrown a 2 goal lead away. Again, they are confused and demotivated and after the game, 2 of my players have slammed my team talk in the press. Bizarrely, the press interview me stating it was a "spirited draw" and the supporters were happy with the draw because of how many times I tested the opposing keeper. I did have double the shots that Newcastle had (yet again, it's another game where I had double the shots of the opposition but failed to win, which is completely unrealistic), but now the morale of my squad is low and players have fallen out with me. What a joke!!

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Re the 'Diablo' tactic above - is it really that strange a tactic?

As someone said earlier, the defensive concept (3 * DC plus a holding DMC) is fine and this then covers the 2 CWB who bomb up the flanks giving width.

You then have 2 MCs - which admittedly is not logical to have both on attack - one definitely should be (by wwfan's guide etc) but the other SHOULD be on support to give a bit more balance.

Then the 2 AMCs - well the SS acts more as a deep lying forward, making late runs into the box - so if you considered him in the FC position when the team attacks - that makes that pretty logical. The Enganche is a fairly stationary AMC so acts more as a support player (despite his 'official' duty being attack). The only strange thing about him is that he sits off to one side.

So IMO, there are only really 2 positions that are not totally matching up with the tactical recommendations - and even they are not that far off. It's just that it LOOKS very strange - but I would think (and note I haven't tried it in the game) it actually sets up fairly 'normally'.

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Re the 'Diablo' tactic above - is it really that strange a tactic?

As someone said earlier, the defensive concept (3 * DC plus a holding DMC) is fine and this then covers the 2 CWB who bomb up the flanks giving width.

You then have 2 MCs - which admittedly is not logical to have both on attack - one definitely should be (by wwfan's guide etc) but the other SHOULD be on support to give a bit more balance.

Then the 2 AMCs - well the SS acts more as a deep lying forward, making late runs into the box - so if you considered him in the FC position when the team attacks - that makes that pretty logical. The Enganche is a fairly stationary AMC so acts more as a support player (despite his 'official' duty being attack). The only strange thing about him is that he sits off to one side.

So IMO, there are only really 2 positions that are not totally matching up with the tactical recommendations - and even they are not that far off. It's just that it LOOKS very strange - but I would think (and note I haven't tried it in the game) it actually sets up fairly 'normally'.

Don't forget that he's set mentality to Overload as standard.

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Please fix two things:

- near post goals, keepers are unable to stop them;

- bad clearance from corners goals, 1/3 of goals come from short clearances resulting in a totally clear shot from middle of the box, straight into the net.

PLEASE, they are really frustrating, I can't stand them anymore (even if I score them).

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Seeing as you you're compairing stats and numbers: How do you explain average dribblers in FM 2014 amassing "stats" as if they'd be Messi and Ronaldo combined?

Mj8HUV9.png

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1773581-top-10-dribblers-in-la-liga-this-season

That tactics above doesn't look all that "diablo" to me. Holidayed a couple o weeks into the season and have seen no miracle results or massive overperformance at all.

Than please have a look on tackle / game. Look at who they are. Which position occupied the highest tackle /game.

If dribble / game consistent with real world situation, than why tackle per game is not. There must be some reasons on it. Can I say it is because of lack of willingness to pass by dribbler ?

70 tackles attempts by a team? It must be violated to real world stats.

What I have seen in the match in the game is, everyone can also win the ball back against anyone. You can have a look at my post in the bug forum. I have uploaded 2 PKM. You can check it.

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I'm seriously going to strangle my defenders at some point. The constant hoofing as hard as possible straight out of play under no pressure with easy passing options nearby is getting seriously annoying. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

(I have mentioned this a few times on here, and I have reported it before, might have to find my old bug report and add some more examples.)

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I'm seriously going to strangle my defenders at some point. The constant hoofing as hard as possible straight out of play under no pressure with easy passing options nearby is getting seriously annoying. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

(I have mentioned this a few times on here, and I have reported it before, might have to find my old bug report and add some more examples.)

I think I'm going to have to report it again, because at the moment it's a complete disgrace how players are (possibly intentionally) completely ignoring my tactics and choosing to constantly smash the ball as hard they can every time they get the ball. Some of my midfielders are even getting involved by ignoring my tactics and the simple chance to play a grounded through ball to another midfielder running through on goal in favour of passing back to a defender so they can smash the ball into the stands.

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I think I'm going to have to report it again, because at the moment it's a complete disgrace how players are (possibly intentionally) completely ignoring my tactics and choosing to constantly smash the ball as hard they can every time they get the ball. Some of my midfielders are even getting involved by ignoring my tactics and the simple chance to play a grounded through ball to another midfielder running through on goal in favour of passing back to a defender so they can smash the ball into the stands.

Always report it, if you think it looks dubious. It certainly sounds it.

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Will do. The silly thing is you can tell what is about to happen because they'll control it, move forward a step or two AND then do. You can't even tell what they're trying because the commentary just says "X plays it forward", "X hits it forward" "X plays a long pass" etc. Whenever it's just a rubbish through pass, it tells me who they're passing it to (or, attempting to pass it to).

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Will do. The silly thing is you can tell what is about to happen because they'll control it, move forward a step or two AND then do. You can't even tell what they're trying because the commentary just says "X plays it forward", "X hits it forward" "X plays a long pass" etc. Whenever it's just a rubbish through pass, it tells me who they're passing it to (or, attempting to pass it to).

Is it the one that's hit about 60 yards, at rocket speed and usually goes out of play at the far end?

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One of the most annoying things for me, amongst a few, is how my players win tackles and then just stand there watching while the opposition player goes and gets the ball back again, this happens with almost every tackle.

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Your injuries complaint is nothing more than bad luck I'm afraid, there are no underlying issues with injuries on the current build of the game.

I have a complaint with how they are recorded.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/381568-Not-all-Injuries-are-recorded.

Essentially it's possible for a player to lose almost a whole season to injury and no record of it be made in his history.

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Is it the one that's hit about 60 yards, at rocket speed and usually goes out of play at the far end?

Pretty much, though wingers and attacking midfielders occasionally play similar sorts of passes out for a throw in on the opposite flank of the pitch.

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Now, I thought the goal I conceded when my centre back tackled my goalkeeper was pretty stupid but this one is equally as dumb and just wouldn't happen.

[video=youtube_share;w-fUHx5dlZ4]

Now you tell me! Why the hell would my full back be throwing the ball there?

(I've restarted this same match 5 times now because I'm sick and tired of idiotic things like this happening and spoiling the result).

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Now, I thought the goal I conceded when my centre back tackled my goalkeeper was pretty stupid but this one is equally as dumb and just wouldn't happen.

[video=youtube_share;w-fUHx5dlZ4]

Now you tell me! Why the hell would my full back be throwing the ball there?

(I've restarted this same match 5 times now because I'm sick and tired of idiotic things like this happening and spoiling the result).

Moderators will write you that this is a life or tell you that you have a bad tactic.

After all, no one expects someone from SI will say that he gave a bad game.:lol:

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Moderators will write you that this is a life or tell you that you have a bad tactic.

After all, no one expects someone from SI will say that he gave a bad game.:lol:

Don't be an idiot.

jon - that's an especially stupid throw-in - please try to find the time to post a .pkm in the Bugs Forum.

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Don't be an idiot.

jon - that's an especially stupid throw-in - please try to find the time to post a .pkm in the Bugs Forum.

OK RTH... will do mate.

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I think I'm going to have to report it again, because at the moment it's a complete disgrace how players are (possibly intentionally) completely ignoring my tactics and choosing to constantly smash the ball as hard they can every time they get the ball. Some of my midfielders are even getting involved by ignoring my tactics and the simple chance to play a grounded through ball to another midfielder running through on goal in favour of passing back to a defender so they can smash the ball into the stands.

Are they limited defenders? Because that's generally their job to just hoof it clear. Are you playing them as BPD but they don't maybe have the stats at all to play that sort of defending?

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Only things I really want to see in the 14.3 patch

1) a) Reduced CCC chances. Regardless of whether its for you or the AI there should not be 5+ CCC per game when all things are equal. Maybe if one a Prem. team is playing a Blue Square team but not otherwise.

b) If there is a CCC and my striker is 1 on 1 with the goalie he should probably score almost 90% of the time. Common. Right now it's almost the complete opposite where 1on1 the goalie has a 90% chance of saving it or the shot going wide.

2) Reduce woodwork hits. Right now the ME pretty guarantees at least 2 woodwork hits per game (which also counts as a CCC) which is baffling.

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Are they limited defenders? Because that's generally their job to just hoof it clear. Are you playing them as BPD but they don't maybe have the stats at all to play that sort of defending?

I play them as CD/D. From what I've read, CD/D are supposed to just play simple passes to keep possession (BPD are much more expansive and try through balls). I'm not asking for amazing through balls or tika taka magic, I'm just asking them to offload the ball to the open midfielders in front of them. They do it MOST of the time, it's just that they will sometimes very randomly just smack the ball as hard as possible straight out of play. No pressure, they even take several touches sometimes.

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