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Stuart Warren

Football Manager 2014 - Update 14.2.2 - Feedback Thread

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I never said it was the same, but there is a clear difference between updating the ME year on year, and a massive new ME overhaul such as one between FM12 and FM13. And in that case where do you draw the line? do you no longer deal with issues/bugs/areas of improvements over the new 3 year cycle? at what point do you standing still improving it? If you don't stand still, how much do you then fix/tweak?

I'm glad you're recognised that distinction here in this post and that you've edited one of your earlier posts (which I replied to when you didn't recognise that distinction in your post) to acknowledge this now :)

There is an ongoing conversation here now that didn't need to start and could have ended ages ago - but people can make their own judgements on what they see here :)

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Well I personally want the thing to be as good as possible. If this meant that as long as the final version of FM14 ME was well balanced, leaving it for FM15 save for a couple of tweaked animations as in FM12, all for the benefit of a much better version one or two years down the line, then that would be much preferred. Naturally I wouldn't have bought fm14 with the 13.3 ME either but that's because 13.3 was still pretty poor. 14.x though has the potential to end up rather good. Maybe even good enough to leave it and take a few steps forward again.

Very much agree with this :)

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Not sure if it's been mentioned but I think there's a bug with scout reports.

A couple of times I have scouted a player and in his report the scout says 'he believes (player) would be regarded as important player for the team.'

Yet on the news page at the bottom of quick report the same says the player would not be a worthwhile signing. This can't be right?

I seen that too and just ignored it, 1 player I scouted was Quality on his page and it said not worthwhile in scout report, the player in question was Prince Bauben

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Not sure if it's been mentioned but I think there's a bug with scout reports.

A couple of times I have scouted a player and in his report the scout says 'he believes (player) would be regarded as important player for the team.'

Yet on the news page at the bottom of quick report the same says the player would not be a worthwhile signing. This can't be right?

I think I had this. It had to do with me being unable to ever get a work permit for him, that's why he wouldn't be worthwhile. Is that what happened to you?

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FM2013 was already on the way there, but this FM has now definitely sucked all the joy out of playing. It's become more of a chore than enjoyment, trying to tweak your tactics to find out what combinations work together, because it's not obvious at all. And the players... there is so little difference between players with amazing stats and players with terrible ones, other than physical differences. You can tell which player has a higher strength stat, and you can tell which player has higher pace, but there's no way of telling which player has the better mental stats, and unless there's a massive difference between them, technical stats as well.

I see players with great first touch, technique, composure, etc, losing control of simple passes with no pressure around them. I see players with great dribbling, technique, etc, running over the top of the ball and having to turn around to go get it. I see players with high aggression, determination, tackling, etc (along with high morale), losing 50/50s to wimpy wide players. It's incredibly frustrating, because you can't pinpoint where the problem is.

What I would do is get rid of 'mentality' completely. There should be zero difference between a forward being clean through on goal if the team is playing attacking, counter-attack or control. No difference whatsoever. But pretty much everyone on the tactics forum will suggest lowering your mentality so players have more composure. This is absurd. The only things that matter when clean through on goal should be the strikers stats vs the keepers stats, and the morale of the players. Nothing else. If you want to play a counter-attacking tactic, then sit deep, play narrow and break quickly. There's no need for a team 'mentality'. Same with controlling, just play short, outnumber the opponent in the midfield and lower the tempo. It just feels to me that the mentality of the team has too big an effect on the actual players and nerfs their attributes somewhat.

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I'm glad you're recognised that distinction here in this post and that you've edited one of your earlier posts (which I replied to when you didn't recognise that distinction in your post) to acknowledge this now :)

There is an ongoing conversation here now that didn't need to start and could have ended ages ago - but people can make their own judgements on what they see here :)

I edited the spelling errors. The wording is still exactly the same. So don't assume anything else about acknowledgement or distinction

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Okay latest feedback from me...

Overall, I think the ME is very good now and not far away from being a finished product. Counter-attacking has improved loads. I'm also finding now that I can have more confidence in my tactical decisions before matches and during matches and seeing what I expect to happen actually happen on the pitch.

I'm really pleased to see the over-powered wingers / under-powered full-backs problem, which IMO tormented FM13 up to and including 13.3, has reduced and just about gone now.

Also, with the new tactics interface, it is good to see the changes there i.e. more info on what functions a player is already doing within his role.

I think you folks at SI are doing a great job on this. Now, some feedback for further improvements.

1. I am also seeing a lot of really odd goalkeeping errors at near post in particular, but also on occasion showing poor touch then losing the ball to an opposition striker = bang, goal! I know the latter does happen IRL but I sense its a little too often in FM 14.2. I think the general keeper errors is well-documented - some of this is animation issues but some is ME-related I think.

2. Too many goals resulting from set-piece situations esp. corners. I'm wondering if this is because there are too many corners though?

3. I'm still seeing too many shots on goal in some games. I wonder if there is a connection between 2 & 3? Is there possibly a change needs to be made with respect to how each phase of play ends?

Big up for this, encountering and reporting the same issues. However this last patch is ages better than 14.1.4 and generally happy of it. But certaing things must be improved, of course.

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I understand what you're saying. If they ever get to that point, I can see them leaving the ME as is again. IMO, that would only be for a massive overhaul like we had for FM13, which won't be soon. While the ME will be very good when the main issues are fixed, there's still a lack of real creativity from attacking players. On the ball decision-making is still lacking compared with where it could be.

There may be a big overhaul if ever the physical side of the game is properly introduced (jostling, shielding etc), but I think we're still a few years away from that.

Agreed, wouldn't have bought FM14 with the FM13.3 version. Think there is enough time and scope to leave 14.x in a place where you arguably wouldn't need to really touch it in FM15, but's not there yes, though I'd argue close (outside of goalkeepers). I think the lack of creativity comes from needing better overall decision making (relative to attributes), and also better uses of runs and movement (again relative to attributes), especially support.

Actually, this might be perception as I've not done enough looking at this yet, but I'm not convinced players do enough to avoid giving away corners. Avoiding a corner should be a high defensive priority.

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Big up for this, encountering and reporting the same issues. However this last patch is ages better than 14.1.4 and generally happy of it. But certaing things must be improved, of course.

How is it better? It's absolutely awful, the worst i've EVER encountered(and there have been some pee poor ones in the past)

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Just went to holiday and noticed the option to return from holiday when offered a job/interview seems to have gone with this patch, is it completely gone now or has it just been automated?

Also, one thing that annoys me is when you take over a new club mid season all of the players tend to have their own training already set so you have to go in and change them all from training on things like training and retraining their positions etc and then set them to either none or things that you actually want. It would be better if when you took over they were all just reset to none and so then you could add them in if you wanted

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I am aware of that. I am more aware more than you know about the inner workings at SI. And unlike a lot of posters on here who seem to think SI exists for their beck and call, I am also aware that SI has a bottom line to maintain. Whilst I don't doubt there is passion from some people within the company about the game, it isn't about that anymore is it? It's about making as much coinage as possible. I don't begrudge SI that at all. They aren't a charity. The demand for the game is inelastic. For football fans its one of the most addictive products out there, and there is no viable competition. What that means is two things. Unless the product really is a complete dogs dinner people will continue to purchase it. And the second reason is because there is no viable competition.

So just like with so many other software releases (including far bigger software projects than a games) you end up where a substandard end product that the customer will still purchase. More fool the company/end consumer purchasing the software? Yes definitely, but a poor product (and I am not talking about FMx here as in my opinion it is a good product) is often better than no product.

What the hell are you talking about? If you like the game buy it, if not don't. It's not rocket science.

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I think I had this. It had to do with me being unable to ever get a work permit for him, that's why he wouldn't be worthwhile. Is that what happened to you?

No they were both domestic players so no issues in signing either.

It would maybe be a good idea if the scout have you the reason he feels not to sign the player.

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Another issue I'm having but I think I had this on the last patch too...

I had two physios and sacked one then when I went to sign a new one say I'm only allowed to sign three and that I currently have three,which I don't I currently have one physio.

It does a similar thing on coaches unless assistant managers now come under the coaching bracket which I didn't think they did.

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My Chelsea team were going through a bad patch and morale low so I decided to play friendly during international break. Had to be against my U21 side though. As majority of first team squad were away I used pick entire team option. Numerous young players were drafted in and several of them played quite well. I checked their attributes and was impressed for 18 year olds and decided to offer contract to several of them. At this stage I could not see a star rating report or their personality but. after signing them, on youth terms, I was pleasantly surprised to discover they were rated as having 4-4/5* potential!

Surely this is a bug of some sort?

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Can someone help me...I had Relay Pitch approved about three seasons ago and every season it says the pitch is relaid (it isn't) and now the pitch is in a poor state but to ask the board it says 'board request has been approved' but it's not getting done...would clearing the cache help? if so can someone provide the link of how to do it please?

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I still have a massive issue with the game around morale, principally the following: 1. Players morale is far too sensitive and can shift far too much one way or another after a single game. 2. Morale has far too much of an impact on the game - based on my experience of FM14 thus far it has the ability to override many aspects of the game, particularly tactics and player ability. Quite frankly I think it needs to be toned down as it is the only thing I am seeing that is ruining the game at the moment.

A player with good morale will finish a chance that a player with bad morale will miss. Whilst I can somewhat see the logic of this for one-off incidents when it happens the entire game it is a little mind boggling. Likewise with the defence and giving away penalties etc. It is very transparent and I personally think it needs to be sorted as it undermines the other aspects of the game you pay attention to.

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I posted earlier that 11 games into my first Premier League season with Man Utd that Nemanja Vidic was the leagues top goalscorer..

I can provide an update, that 19 to games into the season, Vidic is still the top Goalscorer, with 11

Set-pieces are broken, strikers can't score, simple as that, no further proof needed, not even the AI can get strikers to score more than my center back..

qy4e.png

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Looks like all SI staff have abandoned this one after 14.2. Can't blame them though, it is a mess.

Ever heard of Christmas Holidays?

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I am encountering a bug with transfers in Italian Serie B. The rules say I am not allowed to recruit any non-EU players outside of Italy, which is fine.

But I also can't recruit non-EU players who happen to have a EU passport. Like this 18yo kid from Vancouver who is both Canadian and English and his contract is running out. When I click on the button to offer him a contract it says I am not allowed to recruit non-EU players outside of Italy, but this guy has a EU passport. This is not the only player I had the problem with. I think the problem only happens when the EU nationality is the second one, as I was able to recruit a French/Madagascar player from a Madagascar club.

I don't know if that's related to 14.2.0 as I havent played in Italy before in FM14.

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I can provide an update, that 19 to games into the season, Vidic is still the top Goalscorer, with 11

Set-pieces are broken, strikers can't score, simple as that, no further proof needed, not even the AI can get strikers to score more than my center back..

So your conclusive proof that strikers can't score is a table of four top goalscorers which includes three strikers?

Corners are a bit hit and miss at the moment, and whatever tactic you're using may or may not take advantage of that fact.

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So your conclusive proof that strikers can't score is a table of four top goalscorers which includes three strikers?

Corners are a bit hit and miss at the moment, and whatever tactic you're using may or may not take advantage of that fact.

We can if you like ignore for a moment, the sheer amount of other people having the same issues, I mean, eventually that will go in.

But can you in good consciousness tell me that your so called "simulation" isn't doing something wrong, when the table looks at it does, and in January, in the most competitive league in football has a center back that doesn't play every game because of fitness issues, as it's top goalscorer?

This is a place for constructive feedback, this is constructive feedback. This is not an accurate simulation.

I've not set any set-piece instructions, they're simple at default, so I'm not taking intentionally taking advantage of ME problems

I know pride means a lot to some people. At the end of the day though, the ME has serious problems, this highlights problems that have been brought up over and over again, I thought I would provide a little screenshot to show it action.

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We can if you like ignore for a moment........I thought I would provide a little screenshot to show it action.

How many other defenders are in the whole top goalscorers list?

Let's give this a bit of context. I'd like to see a screenshot of that please.

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I am encountering a bug with transfers in Italian Serie B. The rules say I am not allowed to recruit any non-EU players outside of Italy, which is fine.

But I also can't recruit non-EU players who happen to have a EU passport. Like this 18yo kid from Vancouver who is both Canadian and English and his contract is running out. When I click on the button to offer him a contract it says I am not allowed to recruit non-EU players outside of Italy, but this guy has a EU passport. This is not the only player I had the problem with. I think the problem only happens when the EU nationality is the second one, as I was able to recruit a French/Madagascar player from a Madagascar club.

I don't know if that's related to 14.2.0 as I havent played in Italy before in FM14.

I can't remember the exact rules but there is an age limit on players who have duel/EU nationality.

??/Italian you can sign at any age but ??/Other EU depend on other rules.

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How many other defenders are in the whole top goalscorers list?

Let's give this a bit of context. I'd like to see a screenshot of that please.

Well 10 games into my season nine defenders have scored with only one getting more than two goals (He has four).

In comparison 58 midfielders have scored with two on six goals. As for strikers 41 have scored with the top six scorers all strikers (Top scorer - 13)

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Well 10 games into my season nine defenders have scored with only one getting more than two goals (He has four).

In comparison 58 midfielders have scored with two on six goals. As for strikers 41 have scored with the top six scorers all strikers (Top scorer - 13)

Thank you. So it is fair to say that your game at this point in time does not exhibit the characteristics of BenSammy's?

Anyone else have the time to share what the top goalscorer list looks like on their save? Probably makes sense to just have stats from 10+ games into a season.

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Not sure if it's been mentioned but I think there's a bug with scout reports.

A couple of times I have scouted a player and in his report the scout says 'he believes (player) would be regarded as important player for the team.'

Yet on the news page at the bottom of quick report the same says the player would not be a worthwhile signing. This can't be right?

I have reported this as a bug about it happening with one player here, http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/378581-14.2-Inccorect-news-about-a-scout-report

However I have seen it a couple of other times as well. It does not seem to happen that often, but it certainly happens occasionally.

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Prior to the patch I had 100% familiarity on my tactics.

After the patch I have about 50%. "Hassle Opponents" is on 1% familiarity for some reason. Why is this? Extremely bad.

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Prior to the patch I had 100% familiarity on my tactics.

After the patch I have about 50%. "Hassle Opponents" is on 1% familiarity for some reason. Why is this? Extremely bad.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/378453-Reviewed-Losing-tactical-familiarity-as-soon-as-I-switch-tactic-(14.2)?p=9289470&viewfull=1#post9289470

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Another issue I'm having but I think I had this on the last patch too...

I had two physios and sacked one then when I went to sign a new one say I'm only allowed to sign three and that I currently have three,which I don't I currently have one physio.

It does a similar thing on coaches unless assistant managers now come under the coaching bracket which I didn't think they did.

If you look at your boardroom you will now see how many staff you can have. That includes coaches, goalkeeping coaches, fitness coaches and physios, changed from FM13. Assistant manager is separate to that list. You might also be able to have reserve staff who can coach your first team squad and your youth team squad.

So if it says you can have 3 staff that is the total of your physios and coaches. Scouts, Director of Football and Head of Youth Development is also separate.

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I posted earlier that 11 games into my first Premier League season with Man Utd that Nemanja Vidic was the leagues top goalscorer..

I can provide an update, that 19 to games into the season, Vidic is still the top Goalscorer, with 11

Set-pieces are broken, strikers can't score, simple as that, no further proof needed, not even the AI can get strikers to score more than my center back..

qy4e.png

You do realise that, after Vidic, the next three top scorers on the list in your screenshot i.e. Lukaku, Podolski, Petric, are all strikers?

That doesn't suggest strikers can't score.

There are too many goals from corners though IMO, they tend to result when you play a defensive AI and, as I've already posted as feedback, I think the ME needs tweaking in order to have more goals from open play even against a packed defence, then reduce the number of goals from corners / or number of corners that are happening.

Re. strikers, I think there were issues with strikers playing in certain systems / formations in the earlier ME versions but I'm not seeing this problem now. I play as Man Utd as well, a 4-2-3-1. My forward 1 is an 18 yr old (Gabriel Barbosa) and he's scoring for fun. The 3 behind him are getting bags of goals as well.

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We can if you like ignore for a moment, the sheer amount of other people having the same issues, I mean, eventually that will go in.

But can you in good consciousness tell me that your so called "simulation" isn't doing something wrong, when the table looks at it does, and in January, in the most competitive league in football has a center back that doesn't play every game because of fitness issues, as it's top goalscorer?

This is a place for constructive feedback, this is constructive feedback. This is not an accurate simulation.

I've not set any set-piece instructions, they're simple at default, so I'm not taking intentionally taking advantage of ME problems

I know pride means a lot to some people. At the end of the day though, the ME has serious problems, this highlights problems that have been brought up over and over again, I thought I would provide a little screenshot to show it action.

Here's my top scorer list halfway through 2018 season:

Christian Benteke

Mason Bennett

Gabriel Torje

Jordan Rhodes

Don't see a defender in there, but I guess you can argue over Jordan Rhodes :D

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There isn't a new ME each year. Last major overhaul was post FM12 into FM13.

Between FM 2011's last patch and FM 2012 in fact there wasn't anything changed whatsoever. Not that this was noticed by everyone.

As for the feedback and "the customer is always right": During FM Live SI once annouced they had included an ME update, and the eventual feedback as usual followed. Thing is that said update was never actually commenced. It's a very delicate affair, not only because they're dealing with a "mass" audience that inevitably has a different outlook on football than them (football ain't no proven science and is never going to be), but also because they're attempting a honest sim and cater that to an audience that inevitable is going to have misconceptions both regarding their sim and real football here and there.

I think it's a bit cruel, but if they're unsure I'd advice them to pull of another test: Fake an update and witness what happens next. It's easy to attribute literally everything to an update, in particular when all you ever do differently when playing is installing updates on your disk.

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2015/16 season -

Top Scorers after 25 games:

Soldado 18

Lukaku 13

Negredo 13

Connor Sammon (Derby) 12

Berardi 12

Caicedo 11

Rhodes 11

Sow 10 - (All strikers so far)

Then we finally get some midfielders, All joint 9th these players on 9 goals

Van Persie

Steven Fletcher

Szalai

Suarez

De Bruyne

Van Wolfswinkel

Danny Graham

Lewandowski

Pastore

To find a defender I have to go all the way to:

Younes Kaboul - Joint 33rd with 6 goals....

I can suggest that there are maybe some under performing and some over performing players, however there doesnt appear to be a general issue with strikers not scoring and defenders topping the tables in my save...

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I can't remember the exact rules but there is an age limit on players who have duel/EU nationality.

??/Italian you can sign at any age but ??/Other EU depend on other rules.

Well actually the problem seems to be a little bit larger. I can't even make an offer for a Swedish player from a Swedish Club, or to a Spanish free agent. It always says I can't sign non-EU players outside of Italy but these are EU players. This is very weird and annoying :)

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I posted earlier that 11 games into my first Premier League season with Man Utd that Nemanja Vidic was the leagues top goalscorer..

I can provide an update, that 19 to games into the season, Vidic is still the top Goalscorer, with 11

Set-pieces are broken, strikers can't score, simple as that, no further proof needed, not even the AI can get strikers to score more than my center back..

qy4e.png

No, it isn't as 'simple as that', because if it was, all the other leading scorers in the division would be defenders too, but look, they're all strikers. Lukaku, 11 goals in 18 games, that's about right. And given your massive goal difference, it's not really that much of a stretch that one of your defenders has scored more than the other teams forwards. Your example is broken, not the game. It's hardly realistic that your team has done as well as they have after just 19 games. That's going to skew all manner of statistics.

What's more curious is the position of the bigger teams in the league. I have my own theory on why that's happening, but that's for another thread.

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2015/16 season -

Top Scorers after 25 games:

Soldado 18

Lukaku 13

Negredo 13

Connor Sammon (Derby) 12

Berardi 12

Caicedo 11

Rhodes 11

Sow 10 - (All strikers so far)

Then we finally get some midfielders, All joint 9th these players on 9 goals

Van Persie

Steven Fletcher

Szalai

Suarez

De Bruyne

Van Wolfswinkel

Danny Graham

Lewandowski

Pastore

To find a defender I have to go all the way to:

Younes Kaboul - Joint 33rd with 6 goals....

I can suggest that there are maybe some under performing and some over performing players, however there doesnt appear to be a general issue with strikers not scoring and defenders topping the tables in my save...

Are you suggesting these players are midfielders :confused:

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So your conclusive proof that strikers can't score

my conclusive proof that strikers can't score is this

[video=youtube;_DdJqbcj1xs]

miss of the season contender this

my gripe isn't that he missed, it's that the cross was originally going in

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Quick question for any stats bods out there.

I know there is a website that shows all the analysis (passes per player, that kind of thing), called squak / sqwuak, something like that. I thought I had it bookmarked but it seems I don't.

If anyone can post a link it'd be appreciated thanks - mods apologies for an off-topic post on this thread :)

Edit: No worries I've found it - mods feel free to delete if you wish :)

http://www.squawka.com/

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The finishing in this game really needs to improve. I basically have no belief that my strikers will score in 1-v-1 situations or other situations around the box. The finishing is so poor.

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Well actually the problem seems to be a little bit larger. I can't even make an offer for a Swedish player from a Swedish Club, or to a Spanish free agent. It always says I can't sign non-EU players outside of Italy but these are EU players. This is very weird and annoying :)

Have you looked at the rules tab?

Maybe they have a rule that states you can only sign foreign players who already play for an Italian club or something.

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I daresay SI are already aware of an issue re. too many goals from corners but just some stats.

My own game, in 2015-16 season is a good benchmark as 14.2 came into effect during my pre-season.

Cornergoals_zps4cbe9590.png

In early / mid December, apologies if I'm slightly out but I count 79 goals from corners.

This is from www.squawka.com

Apologies for not being able to show the stats for all 20 Prem teams but by seeing the top ones (3rd column is goals from corners) you can make a quick visual comparison. This is from a few mins ago (22nd Dec) so fairly comparable with my game. I counted 56 goals from corners.

Sorry - apologies for a mixed screenshot (my bad use of "Paint") but you can see the data anyway and check the stats yourself if you wish via squawka.

Cornergoals2013-14_zps45aeb501.jpg

So, certainly from my game, just to lay this to rest (or not!) its not an issue solely with human players, its in the wider virtual FM world :)

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In fairness, you are two seasons further on in the game. I think the corner count at the moment is perhaps a tad high, but not excessively so IMO.

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love the franchise

buy like a slave to the game every year

desperate for it to succeed ,

patch is poor, games bugged 14 of us play a network game, reputation is flawed, live updates in game faulty, as a product it feels unfinished.

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In fairness, you are two seasons further on in the game. I think the corner count at the moment is perhaps a tad high, but not excessively so IMO.

Whether I'm one, two or 5 seasons on shouldn't make a difference really though as its mostly still the same bunch of players i.e. not likely to be distorted by a newgen generation with significantly different attributes.

Not excessively so? 79 against 56. That is a 41% difference and that is very statistically significant. Also, in my game we're 15 matches into the season, IRL we're about 17. So, re-wind that by 2 matches and that 41% figure would be greater still.

I'm not posting this to bash SI btw (I'm actually really enjoying 14.2 :) ) and I do wonder why people jump to the "defence" of the ME so quickly? This is a feedback thread and I'm providing feedback based on my game and for the community as the corner discussion is occuring in this thread.

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