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Stuart Warren

Football Manager 2014 - Update 14.2.2 - Feedback Thread

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Playing in the lower leagues I've found 14.2 to be better than 14.1.4. A lot less aimless hoofs upfield, and my counter-attacking tactics now work wonders. My poacher is scoring boatloads.

I'm getting the same issue as others with corner kicks being kicked straight out though.

If you guys have problems, post bug reports in the bug forum so they can get fixed for the next patch.

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I'm sorry, but that doesn't wash. A slight reducing of effectiveness in wing play won't take you from 10 consecutive wins to 7 consecutive losses. Besides, wing play was never that overpowered in 14.1.4. In fact the biggest complaint about that version was the fact that the preferred option for any wide player was to try and win a corner at all costs.

Yes it will and it can. If you are that confident upload your tactic to the Tactics forum and let us take a look there. We've had a couple of people from here who complained who did just that and it was evident their tactic was not great. Most who bothered to keep asking came away happier.

Wing play being arguably over-effective and trying to win corners are two mutually exclusive things - one does not mean the other won't be effective.

Also, streaks come quite easily in FM so if you lose 2 or 3 in a row you are more likely to go on a bad run due to poor morale. This also shows that particular player's man managament skills are not up to scratch.

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Complete nonsense. Just ignore whatever small part of the ME does not live up to expectation and focus on a realistic tactic and you will be succesful. ME iterations are always going to try to be more realistic, so having a realistic tactic can only be good in the long run.

Haha... nonsense to you, not to many others. The fact you have an opinion, and welcome to it, doesn't mean it is the only one.

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What is a ME-busting tactic these days? Specific examples please?

The only thing that still qualifies under this criteria is something that gets an advantage from the variety of set piece bugs that keep popping up in different guises from patch to patch. To say that you could 'bust' 14.1.4 with something that you can't bust 14.2.0 with doesn't sound remotely believable to me.

http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/share-download-fm-14-tactics/149922-3-4-2-1-no-striker-tactic-ccc-s-gold.html

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Yes it will and it can. If you are that confident upload your tactic to the Tactics forum and let us take a look there. We've had a couple of people from here who complained who did just that and it was evident their tactic was not great. Wing play being arguably over-effective and trying to win corners are two mutually exclusive things - one does not mean the other won't be effective.

Also, streaks come quite easily in FM so if you lose 2 or 3 in a row you are more likely to go on a bad run due to poor morale. This also shows that particular player's man managament skills are not up to scratch.

I don't need your tactical help, thank you very much. My tactics are fine. Your example is simply wrong which is all I was commenting on. Wing play WAS NOT overpowered in 14.1.4. It was much the same. From 14.1.3 to 14.1.4 you might have a bit of a point but the wingers are in no way less effective in 14.2 than in 14.1.4.

Streaks resulting from a few bad results is incidental. The bad results happened for that particular player because the game was suddenly patched. If the rules weren't changed, there would be no initial bad results meaning no streak. This sort of thing can ruin a save for some people and I understand their frustration. It's just how things are. The only way to not have this happen is not to patch the ME. Or offering the chance to not switch to a new version. I do not agree with the derision and the ridiculous realism vs ME-busting argument though, especially when the changes we are talking about are not anything fundamental, like collision detection or rewritten ball physics.

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*Sigh* Well this patch has pretty much killed the season in my current save. My team are now a rabble of nobodies who despite being together for the last 2 seasons can no longer pass, head, shoot or control the ball. Moral is now shot and I'm being flogged.

First touch is absolutely woeful , the ball just hits my players and bounces back to the opposition. Throw in a few miracle and extra time goals you then have all manner of poor results which in turn makes moral worse which then leads to more miracle goals and missed tackles and no headers or accurate passing etc.

Moral in this years game is really starting to annoy me, so hard to build but can be destroyed in one match or by one ridiculous comment or chat. If moral drops too far then everything is just mounted against you. You end up being in a position where nothing you do really makes a difference, you either:-

a) get fired,

b) the season ends and gives you a chance to build up moral over the break or by flogging weaker teams in friendlies,

c) or you get some luck and fluke a win.

Whilst I seem to be conceding less through the middle with this patch for some reason I'm now having repeat problems with goals coming from near impossible angles shot from outside the box but very close to the goal line where the ball hits the keeper standing at the near post and then squeezes in.

Yeah I know.......its probably my tactics..........I'm pretty disappointed with this patch so far........I'll see what the new season brings.

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I don't need your tactical help, thank you very much. My tactics are fine. Your example is simply wrong which is all I was commenting on. Wing play WAS NOT overpowered in 14.1.4. It was much the same. From 14.1.3 to 14.1.4 you might have a bit of a point but the wingers are in no way less effective in 14.2 than in 14.1.4.

Streaks resulting from a few bad results is incidental. The bad results happened for that particular player because the game was suddenly patched. If the rules weren't changed, there would be no initial bad results meaning no streak. This sort of thing can ruin a save for some people and I understand their frustration. It's just how things are. The only way to not have this happen is not to patch the ME. Or offering the chance to not switch to a new version. I do not agree with the derision and the ridiculous realism vs ME-busting argument though, especially when the changes we are talking about are not anything fundamental, like collision detection or rewritten ball physics.

Says who? I never really understand how you can just blame the ME change for a run of poor results.

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Says who? I never really understand how you can just blame the ME change for a run of poor results.

So all the people struggling with this is just a coincidence? Do you still believe in Santa Claus?

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Haha... nonsense to you, not to many others. The fact you have an opinion, and welcome to it, doesn't mean it is the only one.

Yes, you can have an opinion. Yes, opinions can be wrong. The fact you are trying to beat the ME rather than create a realistic approach will always mean you need to adjust something everytime the ME is updated. If you build something that the ME itself is evolving towards then logically you will not need many (or any) adjustments.

Look, the ME is not that bad - it is by far the best football simulator we have. That's not to say I don't get frustrated by things, I die a little inside whenever my player tries to buy a corner off an opposing defender only to concede a goal kick. It is certainly nowhere near as bad though as some posters here seem to make out, almost like it's the end of the world.

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Has this now stopped working then with the changes between 14.1.4 to 14.2?

Judging by the comments, I think so. I haven't used it myself.

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I'm sorry, but that doesn't wash. A slight reducing of effectiveness in wing play won't take you from 10 consecutive wins to 7 consecutive losses. Besides, wing play was never that overpowered in 14.1.4. In fact the biggest complaint about that version was the fact that the preferred option for any wide player was to try and win a corner at all costs.

It was me who brought up the example of wing play, but it was just one example. If you set up a logical coherent tactic based on your team's strengths etc, you'll pretty much always do either as expected or over-achieve.

It's when people specifically try to "work out the current ME" as the poster above you says, when problems arise. You start setting up tactics to exploit a specific weakness in that ME, whatever it may be. When the weakness inevitably gets patched, they struggle and have to "rip up their tactics" because FM "broke" it.

As I've said, I haven't changed my tactics at all. I had a tactic in BETA that I continued with right until around 14.1.3. I had no problems with it. Then I changed teams, created a new tactic and again from 14.1.3 right through to 14.2 I haven't had problems. I didn't need to "rip up" my tactic at all.

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ITT: "If you won before and lose now, you're exploiting the engine!"

Side snipes: "FM12 collision detection, that's why you loved 12 and suck at everything else".

Addendum; And people said that no one on this forum ever said anything about exploits/collisions. >_>

Back on-topic though(!)

It's a refined update but do SI even bother testing their updates via watching the match engine? Do they just automate it and print out the computer's statistical average and that's why they completely miss the *visual* issues?

It's clear to me that the default cross tweak / corner tweak has gone too far the other way to be honest. It's cutting very fine along the line, almost like 14.1.1, I think I mentioned then that crosses needed to be back out by the six yard box/penalty area because that's the area where keepers are stuck in a 'do I come for it or not' mind-set. Crossing in the six yard box, or by the goal line is for most the part not ideal and most wingers/fullbacks wouldn't be aiming to cross there.

Just my opinion though.

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So all the people struggling with this is just a coincidence? Do you still believe in Santa Claus?

How many come under this "all the people" bracket? As Kriss pointed out yesterday, at this forums busiest time, there are 1000 people online, less than 1% who are playing the game. Surely if this was a wide spread problem then we would ALL be suffering with this? I would have suffered if it was the case, as would anyone posting on this forum, the fact that it doesnt happen to everyone says to me its not an issue.

I dont think there is any need for your childish dig, i was merely getting involved in a discussion, if you cannot keep it grown up, then i suggest you dont bother.

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I don't need your tactical help, thank you very much. My tactics are fine. Your example is simply wrong which is all I was commenting on. Wing play WAS NOT overpowered in 14.1.4. It was much the same. From 14.1.3 to 14.1.4 you might have a bit of a point but the wingers are in no way less effective in 14.2 than in 14.1.4.

I'm not saying YOUR tactics are bad, but in general to those who are struggling here.

I'm not trying to be condescending to any of these people, it's perfectly possible you have a clear vision for your tactic and you are a football god in real life, but translating that to FM terms is the hard part.

Streaks resulting from a few bad results is incidental. The bad results happened for that particular player because the game was suddenly patched. If the rules weren't changed, there would be no initial bad results meaning no streak. This sort of thing can ruin a save for some people and I understand their frustration. It's just how things are. The only way to not have this happen is not to patch the ME. Or offering the chance to not switch to a new version. I do not agree with the derision and the ridiculous realism vs ME-busting argument though, especially when the changes we are talking about are not anything fundamental, like collision detection or rewritten ball physics.

How can you say this without having an in-depth look at their save? Certainly the new ME may have an effect on your results, but if you truly understand your own tactic then you could see what is going wrong and change it after watching a few games.

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It was me who brought up the example of wing play, but it was just one example. If you set up a logical coherent tactic based on your team's strengths etc, you'll pretty much always do either as expected or over-achieve.

It's when people specifically try to "work out the current ME" as the poster above you says, when problems arise. You start setting up tactics to exploit a specific weakness in that ME, whatever it may be. When the weakness inevitably gets patched, they struggle and have to "rip up their tactics" because FM "broke" it.

As I've said, I haven't changed my tactics at all. I had a tactic in BETA that I continued with right until around 14.1.3. I had no problems with it. Then I changed teams, created a new tactic and again from 14.1.3 right through to 14.2 I haven't had problems. I didn't need to "rip up" my tactic at all.

And back we go to the logic argument :rolleyes:

I've said it about three times now, yes, simple tactics carry over from patch to patch. Specific tactics may, but are more likely to be susceptible because specifics are affected by changes to ME logic. Defensive line, mentality, decision making, closing down logic. Specific patterns of play rely on these to be constant for them to work. It doesn't mean that these patterns of play are exploitative or unrealistic. Real life football is all about combinations. Wanting certain combinations from your teams in FM is NOT looking for exploits. Looking for exploits is the quest for something that wins games regardless of what's really going on on the pitch.

Look, you are apparently fine with setting up a tactic and just going through with it ignoring the differences between what you expect from it to what actually plays out. Others want to see specific things happen. You'll always have a more consistent gameplay experience between different patches, that is true. But that doesn't mean that the others are wrong in their approach. It also doesn't mean that your logic is better than theirs.

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My point is that if your tactical set up is perfectly normal and logical there is no way you'll go from wining 10 in a row on 14.1.4 to losing 7 in a row on 14.2.0.

Considering the game doesn't exactly replicate real world football and deigns to create unrealistic scenarios that wouldn't exist in the real world game, at least on at a professional level, I'm not entirely sure a logical set-up exists, when the game has always done so well at denying logic itself..

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ITT: "If you won before and lose now, you're exploiting the engine!"

No need to go over the top now. All most people here are saying is that losing streaks can be caused by anything, but to just blame the ME at the first sign of any trouble is just sticking your head in the sand and pretending you are the best manager ever.

If you are truly doing everything perfectly then upload your save/match to the bug forums, if it's utterly clear the game is at fault then more examples will surely help to make it better.

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How many come under this "all the people" bracket? As Kriss pointed out yesterday, at this forums busiest time, there are 1000 people online, less than 1% who are playing the game. Surely if this was a wide spread problem then we would ALL be suffering with this? I would have suffered if it was the case, as would anyone posting on this forum, the fact that it doesnt happen to everyone says to me its not an issue.

I dont think there is any need for your childish dig, i was merely getting involved in a discussion, if you cannot keep it grown up, then i suggest you dont bother.

I've already explained why not everyone has this problem. Nice to see you're still as touchy as ever though :thup:

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ITT: "If you won before and lose now, you're exploiting the engine!"

Side snipes: "FM12 collision detection, that's why you loved 12 and suck at everything else".

Addendum; And people said that no one on this forum ever said anything about exploits/collisions. >_>

Back on-topic though(!)

My post a few pages back covered this. We all tweak our tactics. Some, not much whereas others, a lot. Sometimes it's difficult to know where the line is between improving the tactic and taking advantage of an exploit. Some ar obvious like overpowered wing play where wingers run circles around fullbacks. If you have weak wingers vs good fulbacks and they're still running rings around them, that's obvious.

As Aktsjon Mann correctly says, other times it isn't as obvious that you're exploiting a ME weakness. Like with D-Lines and Closing Down etc.

Still, if you build a tactic that follows real world basics, you should do well. Obvious things like movement between the lines and having varied play. I can't do as well as that guy on FMBase who has Nottingham Forest on top of the Premier League in the 2nd season, but I'm fine with it.

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I've already explained why not everyone has this problem. Nice to see you're still as touchy as ever though :thup:

You mean, why a small fraction of players have this issue. Its certainly not a wide spread issue.

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And back we go to the logic argument :rolleyes:

I've said it about three times now, yes, simple tactics carry over from patch to patch. Specific tactics may, but are more likely to be susceptible because specifics are affected by changes to ME logic. Defensive line, mentality, decision making, closing down logic. Specific patterns of play rely on these to be constant for them to work. It doesn't mean that these patterns of play are exploitative or unrealistic. Real life football is all about combinations. Wanting certain combinations from your teams in FM is NOT looking for exploits. Looking for exploits is the quest for something that wins games regardless of what's really going on on the pitch.

Look, you are apparently fine with setting up a tactic and just going through with it ignoring the differences between what you expect from it to what actually plays out. Others want to see specific things happen. You'll always have a more consistent gameplay experience between different patches, that is true. But that doesn't mean that the others are wrong in their approach. It also doesn't mean that your logic is better than theirs.

ME logic is always going to at least try to be based on real life though, so any changes are more likely to make things like decision making more rather than less realistic. Sure, this might not always be the case, so what specific combinations between your players no longer work in the new ME?

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You mean, why a small fraction of players have this issue. Its certainly not a wide spread issue.

Yeah. You however we're implying that these people (yes, there may not be millions of them, because it seems I have to make this distinction clear every time I use this word) who do have it were a coincidence, or were you not? I'm not aiming digs at you and the Santa reference was tongue in cheek and not meant as an insult, I am sorry if you were offended.

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Oppostion get a corner.

Goal.

Opposition get a corner.

Goal.

That is all.

Or, if you've seemingly got the right players.

Human player gets a corner = goal

Human player gets a corner = goal

It does cut both ways ;)

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And back we go to the logic argument :rolleyes:

I've said it about three times now, yes, simple tactics carry over from patch to patch. Specific tactics may, but are more likely to be susceptible because specifics are affected by changes to ME logic. Defensive line, mentality, decision making, closing down logic. Specific patterns of play rely on these to be constant for them to work. It doesn't mean that these patterns of play are exploitative or unrealistic. Real life football is all about combinations. Wanting certain combinations from your teams in FM is NOT looking for exploits. Looking for exploits is the quest for something that wins games regardless of what's really going on on the pitch.

Look, you are apparently fine with setting up a tactic and just going through with it ignoring the differences between what you expect from it to what actually plays out. Others want to see specific things happen. You'll always have a more consistent gameplay experience between different patches, that is true. But that doesn't mean that the others are wrong in their approach. It also doesn't mean that your logic is better than theirs.

Is there any need for your first sentence?

I wouldn't call my tactics "simple" and I've been able to carry that over between updates. Some people actively try and exploit the ME, so when the next update arrives, they are attached to another object by an incline plane wrapped helically around an axis. Some people take advantage of a weakness in the ME without knowing it. I agree with you here. Not everyone sees that (as an example) closing down is bugged and that's why they're doing well.

Still, as I said, if we build tactics that follow the basics of tactic building (movement between line etc) we won't have that problem. Yes, the tactic will still do a little better or a little worse depending on the ME, but overall it'll be okay.

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ME logic is always going to at least try to be based on real life though, so any changes are more likely to make things like decision making more rather than less realistic. Sure, this might not always be the case, so what specific combinations between your players no longer work in the new ME?

The combinations still mostly work, but I had to work over the defensive line settings and tempo a bit for the same spaces to open up as before. As I said, my tactics weren't affected much but I can see why others can be.

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Yeah. You however we're implying that these people (yes, there may not be millions of them, because it seems I have to make this distinction clear every time I use this word) who do have it were a coincidence, or were you not? I'm not aiming digs at you and the Santa reference was tongue in cheek and not meant as an insult, I am sorry if you were offended.

No what i was meaning was, its too easy to just sit back and blame the ME when things go wrong after a patch. I have not touched a single thing, yet my results are much the same as before the update, im no super tactician, or FM guru so why am i not suffering? Why do none of my friends ever complain the patch has broken their tactics? Its purely forum talk as far as im concerned.

Updates may change things with how the ME works, but it never ruins a tactic, not unless that tactic was exploiting something, and i refuse to accept everyone who claims they went on a losing streak after the patch were employing exploits. It would say to me that they just went on a losing streak, buried their head in the sand after a couple of losses and just blamed the ME because its much easier than figuring out whats actually gone wrong for them.

I wasnt upset, i just didnt see the need for it, i may be a bit defensive, 3 years of being accused of various fanboy situations can do that to a person. :)

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The combinations still mostly work, but I had to work over the defensive line settings and tempo a bit for the same spaces to open up as before. As I said, my tactics weren't affected much but I can see why others can be.

So you understand your tactic, watch the matches and then see what needs to be changed. This is exactly what everyone needs to do before coming in here and moaning everytime an update is released.

If people are struggling with this, then the experts on the Tactics forum can help.

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Having predominantly been a lower league manager in FM14 after reading an array of comments from people declaring they found it hard to notice the difference between players with 'good' stats and those with 'bad' attributes performance, thought I'd take over one of the Big Boys this morning just to run a little comparison and see if anyone had a valid point...

I have to say I was quite surprised at just how little difference there was, especially in an attacking sense, between Manchester United and my lowly Portsmouth side.

Whilst there was a noticeable improvement when it came to key mental attributes positively impacting a players performance (anticipation and positioning I'd say were the two that stood out the most) and defensively found it easier to win back possession it was about there that the distinctions ended. Felt as though when ever Side A stepped into Side B's half and vice-versa that stats were universally thrown out of the window and everyone had a a level playing field technically.

Being a Reading season ticket holder I really couldn't give a tinkers cuss about how Robin Van Persie and Wayne Rooney perform but, and this is no exaggeration (simply the best example I could think of), the fact I simply could not tell the difference in the final third between two of the worlds elite attackers compared to Ashley Harris and Patrick Ageymangs performances in League 2 was a little disconcerting... The four of them performed in an extremely similar manner; passing, shooting (though the Utd players seemed a little faster to react to certain situations), heading - it got to a point where I felt I could put Ashley and Le Pat in red shirts, plonk them in at Old Trafford and no one would be any the wiser.

Also found that goalkeepers were also performing extremely similarly to one another, again unable to spot any significant difference between David De Gea and Dean Santangelo, the youngster I made my first signing at Pompey... This was extremely evident when it came to distribution. De Gea is technically a very gifted goalkeeper who can pass the ball as well as the vast majority Premier League midfielders and so I found it rather alarming that his kicking (was hard to compare throwing as far too few throwing attempts were made) was exactly the same as Santangelo. Again, put Dean in a Utd shirt and ask him to kick the ball out and you'd honestly be none the wiser, both would misplace simple clearing opportunities and produce exactly the same number of incomplete goal kicks, etc.

Am starting to think that maybe there's an issue with the way technical attributes (eg. passing, technique, finishing, long shots etc) are being discerned and then processed by the match engine and that maybe the manner it distinguishes between 10 and 18 needs to be broadened a little. Not going so far as to say maximum attribute values need to be increased to 100 or anything along those lines, at least not on face value, but maybe if the ME thought of Stat A - 10 as 100 and Stat B - 18 as 180 (probably a poor model I know, but am thinking off the top of my small and ever balding head here ;)) there'd be a much bigger jump in it's effectiveness. They may already do this, I am hardly a wizard when it comes to mathematics and the like, but really does feel as though the difference technically between very good and very poor players needs to be widened considerably.

On a plus side things are a lot better contractually now, at all levels, and I really do feel that mental attributes are playing a bigger role in player performances than ever (though the effect just a small drop in morale has on overall performance, in my opinion, is too great and needs a little toning down)...

Every cloud and all that...

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Congrats for releasing the latest patch SI :)

I have only one bad point to mention so far.... When FM14 was released (before the 1st patch) the "auto-hide action bar" in Match preferences was working the way it should by actually hiding the action bar when not in use. This has stopped working since first patch (well the option is still here but it does not work) when playing in windowed mode. have you any plans to bring it back?

Thanks

This is something we've never been able to reproduce internally, and have had a very small number of people report. Are you playing with a custom skin?

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So you understand your tactic, watch the matches and then see what needs to be changed. This is exactly what everyone needs to do before coming in here and moaning everytime an update is released.

If people are struggling with this, then the experts on the Tactics forum can help.

Sure. But there is no giant bell that rings and alerts people that the rules have now changed. Do you see why it's frustrating for some? In a perfect world sure, you instantly work out why something has gone wrong and fix it. But when you're already in a rut you also have to get the morale sorted, the patch has destroyed tactical familiarity so now you have to deal with the consequences (however minor, they still add up when in a slump) from this and you may not even recover before getting the sack.

I'm not saying SI have to change their approach. I'm definitely not advocating for a no-patches-approach. I just don't agree with the derision and exploiting accusations towards someone struggling. I understand their frustration and wish there was a way this could be helped beyond the obvious 'use a simpler approach and you'll not struggle.' The option to delay a ME change until the end of an ongoing season at least? Something that would assure that no-one has to suffer their team falling apart mid-season because of a patch.

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Sure. But there is no giant bell that rings and alerts people that the rules have now changed. Do you see why it's frustrating for some? In a perfect world sure, you instantly work out why something has gone wrong and fix it. But when you're already in a rut you also have to get the morale sorted, the patch has destroyed tactical familiarity so now you have to deal with the consequences (however minor, they still add up when in a slump) from this and you may not even recover before getting the sack.

I'm not saying SI have to change their approach. I'm definitely not advocating for a no-patches-approach. I just don't agree with the derision and exploiting accusations towards someone struggling. I understand their frustration and wish there was a way this could be helped beyond the obvious 'use a simpler approach and you'll not struggle.' The option to delay a ME change until the end of an ongoing season at least? Something that would assure that no-one has to suffer their team falling apart mid-season because of a patch.

I agree with you here. People don't always know why their tactic isn't "working" anymore. Surely it isn't SI's problem though.

Each person can decide when to install the new update. I have Steam set to automatically download it as soon as it's available. People who don't want that can set FM in Steam to not automatically download an update and they can then decide when to apply it.

As for the derision.... I'm also aware of how the word "exploit" is seen, which is why I've changed it to a "weakness" in the ME. :D

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I agree with you here. People don't always know why their tactic isn't "working" anymore. Surely it isn't SI's problem though.

Each person can decide when to install the new update. I have Steam set to automatically download it as soon as it's available. People who don't want that can set FM in Steam to not automatically download an update and they can then decide when to apply it.

As for the derision.... I'm also aware of how the word "exploit" is seen, which is why I've changed it to a "weakness" in the ME. :D

The option in Steam does not work. Setting it offline is the only way, but it's not exactly an intuitive solution and not always applicable because people use steam for different (online) stuff as well.

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It is certainly nowhere near as bad though as some posters here seem to make out, almost like it's the end of the world.

That I agree with, some of the 'I'm not buying any more' comments are laughable... yes they will, and they know they will.

That said, we are playing the ME whether we like it or not- I play in an online game so we are playing each other & that is real competition (not against the relatively easy to beat AI) so you try to get every edge you can, as if we didn't and just played as if it was reality we would lose.

The updates affect people in different ways, I just wish enough testing was done on the ME so that, at roll-out time, the glitches had been ironed through.....

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Sure. But there is no giant bell that rings and alerts people that the rules have now changed. Do you see why it's frustrating for some? In a perfect world sure, you instantly work out why something has gone wrong and fix it. But when you're already in a rut you also have to get the morale sorted, the patch has destroyed tactical familiarity so now you have to deal with the consequences (however minor, they still add up when in a slump) from this and you may not even recover before getting the sack.

I'm not saying SI have to change their approach. I'm definitely not advocating for a no-patches-approach. I just don't agree with the derision and exploiting accusations towards someone struggling. I understand their frustration and wish there was a way this could be helped beyond the obvious 'use a simpler approach and you'll not struggle.' The option to delay a ME change until the end of an ongoing season at least? Something that would assure that no-one has to suffer their team falling apart mid-season because of a patch.

Yes, I understand it could change things for the worse, but certainly not in a way that warrants throwing all your toys out of the pram. People already have the changelogs and a download to wait for to warn them that an update has arrived, this could not be more of a ringing bell that something might have changed.

I agree that in a small minority of cases the ME change might be the difference that actually got you sacked rather than saving your bad run, though if you're already in that rut then it's likely you were heading for the sack anyway. And I think what is probably such a small number of people (can't say for sure) doesn't justify delaying an update that would actually beneift more people. I have to say most people complaining here seem to be moaning that they can't continue their 50 win streak, rather than getting sacked though.

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That I agree with, some of the 'I'm not buying any more' comments are laughable... yes they will, and they know they will.

That said, we are playing the ME whether we like it or not- I play in an online game so we are playing each other & that is real competition (not against the relatively easy to beat AI) so you try to get every edge you can, as if we didn't and just played as if it was reality we would lose.

The updates affect people in different ways, I just wish enough testing was done on the ME so that, at roll-out time, the glitches had been ironed through.....

I see what you are saying with the online game, I did not look at it in that regard. At least your opponents also have to adapt :D

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The option in Steam does not work.

:saywhatnow: I've always assumed it did! In that case, all we can do is to watch more of a match (for the first few matches possibly) to see if the tactic still works the way you intended it to work.

I had a counter tactic (in BETA I think it was) where everything was well set up (imo) apart from the fact that I had "Push Even Higher Up" selected as I found that my team was just way too deep on "defensive" strategies. With the next update, when I checked it, my team was now playing way too high (because the very deep D-Lines was fixed) so I just un-ticked that option.

You did basically the same thing, judging by your earlier post. It's something we have to do, I think. There's too much of a need to just race through seasons, just watching key highlights and then not knowing why you're suddenly losing as the new update arrives.

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No what i was meaning was, its too easy to just sit back and blame the ME when things go wrong after a patch. I have not touched a single thing, yet my results are much the same as before the update, im no super tactician, or FM guru so why am i not suffering? Why do none of my friends ever complain the patch has broken their tactics? Its purely forum talk as far as im concerned.

Updates may change things with how the ME works, but it never ruins a tactic, not unless that tactic was exploiting something, and i refuse to accept everyone who claims they went on a losing streak after the patch were employing exploits. It would say to me that they just went on a losing streak, buried their head in the sand after a couple of losses and just blamed the ME because its much easier than figuring out whats actually gone wrong for them.

I wasnt upset, i just didnt see the need for it, i may be a bit defensive, 3 years of being accused of various fanboy situations can do that to a person. :)

Well, 14.1.4 had this thing where the central defenders were making very poor closing down decisions and reacted very slowly to long balls over their heads. If your tactic couldn't deal with this, you would of course struggle, so by force of natural selection people were playing tactics that could.

I discovered two methods to deal with it (there are likely others):

* employing one or two defensive midfielders, who made the central defenders stick to their positions more.

* employing a sweeper

Once that was in place, I was doing fine. I also made sure to have an Advanced Forward as a striker, to exploit those dumb central defenders.

Now, not everyone would do this consciously as I did. However, how many do you think labeled themselves master tacticians either setting their team up to do this, or doing dynamic changes in-match that ended up doing exactly the same?

I think; most of us. Whether you believe you were playing the AI and not the ME, or vice versa, due to the imbalances of the ME success would depend on dealing with those faults. Just like 14.1.3 where people would select Hassle because the ME was insensitive to closing down instructions, 14.2.0 has its quirks too. Right now I see an imbalance between dribbling and tackling, for instance. Hence, the ME favours quick, good dribblers. I also see that Strength is more effective at stopping those raids than Tackling, so obviously I will have to assemble a physically strong team. Corners are a little too effective (and they are hit unrealistically close to the goal without the keeper being able to deal with it), so I think as always I will need tall players wherever possible.

At least, I am aware of why.

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and small irritating GUI bugs such as information like player names in goalscoring charts not appearing until I put the cursor over them.

Can you please post this in the UI bugs forum (http://community.sigames.com/forumdisplay.php/368-User-Interface)? If I understood you correctly, I can't get this to happen. So I'm assuming I've misunderstood what your problem is. Additionally, we'd also appreciate if you share all the other GUI bugs you're seeing so we can review them too.

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Live league tables are gone - in match widget, in Competition-> Matches-> Live league table, in post match screen too.

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Yes, I understand it could change things for the worse, but certainly not in a way that warrants throwing all your toys out of the pram. People already have the changelogs and a download to wait for to warn them that an update has arrived, this could not be more of a ringing bell that something might have changed.

Steam doesn't tell you it's downloading something unless you look for it. Not everyone visits these forums daily either. If you look through this very thread there are people who only realised it updated after their team suddenly became unrecognizable on the pitch. Surely there CAN be a more noticeable warning? Something in the game at least beyond that tiny easily missed version number on the start screen. Or, more importantly, something that alerts you before applying the thing and allows you to delay it.

I don't see many toys out of the pram either, in fact the reason I'm even involved in this is because, as always, the tone of those replying to people having issues is much worse than most of the complaints themselves, excluding the obvious 'this game is broken, fix it NOW' cries.

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You can go to STEAM, right click on Football Manager 2014, go to properties, then updates, and set automatic updates to do not automatically update this game.

Sure, I too didn't do that till now, so I'm too stuck on this horrible update.

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Has this now stopped working then with the changes between 14.1.4 to 14.2?

if it has, it has because this is a tactic that would never work in real life and especially would not create many CCC's..this can only be a huge bus parked in fron of your own goal. so obviouslly somehow this tactic exploited the flaws in the builds it was succesful.

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You can go to STEAM, right click on Football Manager 2014, go to properties, then updates, and set automatic updates to do not automatically update this game.

Sure, I too didn't do that till now, so I'm too stuck on this horrible update.

As I said before, this does not work. It still downloads and applies the patch even with automatic updates turned off. If you want it to not update the only way is to set the whole thing offline.

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if it has, it has because this is a tactic that would never work in real life and especially would not create many CCC's..this can only be a huge bus parked in fron of your own goal. so obviouslly somehow this tactic exploited the flaws in the builds it was succesful.

Plenty of attacking players there, it's just imbalanced. Would need a bit more staggered midfield and maybe some variety in wing back play. Formations without a striker were the new thing in FM13, you can check Cleon's threads from last year for example for the (real life) reasons why. Definitely no reason why the formation couldn't work with some tweaks.

Besides the point anyway. There will probably be a tiny fraction of people using anything that extreme and there isn't anything that drastic in the changes between 14.1.4 to 14.2 that would make a certain team shape completely inefficient. The very tactic will no doubt work again in 14.2 with some simple changes that will no doubt soon be provided by the person who created it in the first place. The problem is the change to underlying mechanics that will affect ANY shape. The ones I listed in an earlier post.

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As I said before, this does not work. It still downloads and applies the patch even with automatic updates turned off. If you want it to not update the only way is to set the whole thing offline.

It works. You must have accidentally clicked the install update button on the dialogue box it pops up when you launch a game you've chosen not to automatically update or something.

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It works. You must have accidentally clicked the install update button on the dialogue box it pops up when you launch a game you've chosen not to automatically update or something.

Have you tried it with FM specifically? It simply does not do anything, no dialogue, nothing.

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Quick comment about sorting: It has been broken again. Sorting by position on the pre-match team selection screen simply doesn't work (in my game), even if you click the position button. It will sort in a seemingly random fashion. This happens every time for me.

Sorting by position will also be cancelled in some other situations, but then you can at least click Position to sort it again.

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