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Stuart Warren

Football Manager 2014 - Update 14.2.2 - Feedback Thread

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It might sound like people banging a drum but it really is your tactics.

Ticking "shoot less often" is like sticking a plaster on a broken leg, fix the problem and you won't need the plaster.

How do you fix the problem? well to be sure we would need to see your tactics but generally its caused by the person taking the shots not being given the time on the ball to find a pass within the range & risk level you have given him. In general terms this means using team instructions that have a high mentality (Attacking/overload) and by having too many players on attack duties meaning they play the ball forward as quickly as possible, everyone runs away from the ball leaving the man with the ball no other option but to shoot.

This issue can then be made worse if you have players who like to shoot from distance via a ppm.

So my player choosing to shoot from a ridiculous angle when he can square it to my fellow, unmarked striker in the box for a simple tap in is all down to my tactic? Ok then lol!

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So my player choosing to shoot from a ridiculous angle when he can square it to my fellow, unmarked striker in the box for a simple tap in is all down to my tactic? Ok then lol!

No, but the fact that he was in the position to shoot, in the mindset to shoot might be. Broaden your thinking to those that are just trying to help.

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Where are you getting this from?

Where is the suggestion that telling a player anything at all will result in him the giving 50%. I try to be reasonable when I read stuff that I just don't agree with, but I am finding it increasingly hard with you because you just seem to be making it up as you go along and putting the blinkers on whenever someone shows the folly in your previous post.

Have you even watched much football?

In fact.... forget it.

[On List]

I'm not sure what you're asking. I already explained what I said. A player who dogs it with any sort of regularity will find himself on the bench and then off the team in rapid fashion. It is extraordinarily difficult to become a high level professional athlete if you're the type of person to put in half an effort.

The suggestion I'm referring to is what you said triggers "complacency". The idea that if the players are performing well, and you give them a positive halftime talk ("keep it up, you're doing well") then they will be complacent in the 2nd half and not give a full effort.

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It feels as if the ME has become a balance act where common sense and player intelligence just do not exist. It's all about churning out "realistic" stats

I set up a 3-5-2 wingback tactic where the basics were supposed to be simple: get the ball to the wingbacks and cross it to the big targetman upfront.

I bought a couple of wingbacks with great crossing ability and already had a top target man.

And it failed spectaculary. Simply because the wingbacks just wouldnt cross the ball. Even when instructed to cross often from deep and aim for target man.

It just feels pointless to even try to create a tactic when simple stuff like that just dont work.

I hope to God Im wrong, but feels like this match engine is a blind alley for SI

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I'm not sure what you're asking. I already explained what I said. A player who dogs it with any sort of regularity will find himself on the bench and then off the team in rapid fashion. It is extraordinarily difficult to become a high level professional athlete if you're the type of person to put in half an effort.

The suggestion I'm referring to is what you said triggers "complacency". The idea that if the players are performing well, and you give them a positive halftime talk ("keep it up, you're doing well") then they will be complacent in the 2nd half and not give a full effort.

The issue you are having here is you are comparing a high level professional athlete with non-athletes & amateur athletes whereas FM is comparing high level athletes with other high level athletes.

You are trying to compare a Steven Gerrard with a sunday league player where FM is comparing Gerrard to a another professional footballer who isn't quite as determined/professional etc.

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So my player choosing to shoot from a ridiculous angle when he can square it to my fellow, unmarked striker in the box for a simple tap in is all down to my tactic? Ok then lol!

Until you accept some of the choices you've made are to some extent causing your frustration you'll never learn what you are doing wrong and what you can do to improve the issues you are having.

Personally I couldn't care less what you do as I'll continue to enjoy my saves but if was in your position I would be making an effort to explore all the options rather than blaming the game.

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No, but the fact that he was in the position to shoot, in the mindset to shoot might be. Broaden your thinking to those that are just trying to help.

But he wasn't in the position to shoot, like I said it was a ridiculous angle. I see one of the mods have commented on this as well, so I will just wait and hope this ridiculous bug gets corrected.

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But he wasn't in the position to shoot, like I said it was a ridiculous angle. I see one of the mods have commented on this as well, so I will just wait and hope this ridiculous bug gets corrected.

Well we only have your word for that, but it's clear you don't want to even acknowledge the fact that it could be your tactics, even slightly. Tactics that are slightly wrong can cause pressure on your team so that when they get a sniff of a chance, they go for it, even if there are better options on. Which could have been what happened here. You haven't given much information though. Have you raised it in the bugs forum if you think it's so ridiculous?

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The following is a follow up to a previous post where I collated some of the stats from playing 2 seasons as Arsenal;

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/378442-Football-Manager-2014-Update-14.2.2-Feedback-Thread?p=9396581#post9396581

On this occasion I used Barcelona, watching every game in full, primarily still using my 433 possesion tactic. I won 9 trophies out of a possible 10 - a 'dodgy' defeat to Real in the Spanish cup, and basically attempted to copy my actions followed previously.

I won 77% of my matches, winning 95 and losing 6 in total over the 2 seasons - 3 Champions League Group matches, the afore mentioned cup match & 2 games in my 1st season( Valladolid & Granada). I would add that, in my opinion, all these losses were a result of not playing my strongest team. I bought nobody in the 1st season but did buy Courtois & Gundogan at the start of the 2nd season to replace Valdes and long-term injuries to Xavi, Fabregas & Iniesta. I mention these facts purely to counter any arguement regarding my enjoyment of the game being based on failure as by no means do I consider myself a tactical genius. In-fact I have little comprehension of them, I was playing as Barcelona after all.

Barcelona Stats.

Goals/ Shot Attempts 14%

Goals/ Shots on Target. 32%

% shots on target 44%

Tackles Won. 85%

Headers Won. 58%

Crosses. 22%

Passing. 84%

Woodwork. 1.05p/game

Corners. 10.4p/game

Goal from set-pieces. 40%

CCC's p/game 3

OPPOSITION

Goals/ Shot Attempts 11%

Goals/ Shots on Target. 25%

% of shots on target. 44%

Tackles Won. 84%

Headers Won. 56%

Crosses. ? %

Passing. ? %

Woodwork. 0.12p/game

Corners. 3.1. p/game

Goal from set-pieces. 63%

CCC's p/game 1

The use of the term Opposition here refers only to games against Barcelona in La Liga.

Some additional stats show that 19.2% of the overall league goals were scored from corners & as Messi was son intrinsic to my Barcelona team some of his stats are as follows;

Goals/ Shot Attempts 12%

Shots on Target/ Shot Attempts 44%

Goals/ Shots on Target 26%

POM 7%

Dribbles p/game 3.11

The anectdotal evidence supplied in the previous post largely remains, so I've taken the liberty of cutting & pasting it here

The figures are fairy rational considering the dominance of Arsenal/ Barcelona in the game. However I would merely suggest that the tackling % is excessive and the % of goals from set-pieces are major areas of concern. I concluded that any set-piece concludes after any 5 touches but accept this is subjective and others will have other ideas.

If the above can be judged empirical what follows is clearly anecdotal;

My biggest bug-bear with the ME is players 'hoofing' the ball in the direction of no-one. As I am trying to play a possesion based tactic the regularity of this leaves me enraged. It happens in open play & set-pieces. I would much rather the player gave the ball away occasionally than hit the ball straight-out or litteraly into a space where I have no-one near. My guess is this must have something to do with composure, at least in open play.

First-touch is abysmal, World class players frequently lose the ball in this manner.

Player collisions is also a problem, I also have regularly seen the player with the ball run into a teammate with the result of a turnover of possesion. Similarly is a player passing the ball into the teammate and bouncing clear.

An over occurrence of Some amazing slide tackles from behind.

Goalkeepers still appear to do some simply weird antics.

I would like to finish by saying that much of the ME is great, I've seen some great play and goals but because of my obsession with possesion the bug bears above have left me very close to going to in game Commentary alone which is a shame.

I'd like to add that I am worried about goalscoring and the figures here show Messi to be no 'better' a finisher than anyone else, he just amasses more attempts. In-fact, his figures are the worst of the other top 20 goalscorers in the league. My recollection is that over 50% of his shots were from outside of the box and attempts to play him as a Poacher or Advanced Forward had no effect on this tendency.

Just to finish, as I may have alluded to earlier, I no longer enjoy the game. It's not a result of winning or losing, it has more to do with watching 4 seasons in full detail, resenting the graphical representation of the game & ,probably most controversially, not actually being sure of how much influence I'm having over the game. I'll come back no doubt after the next update but for now, I'm off to watch some 'real' football.

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Januzaj, a 19 year old lad who has just broken through into the first team this season, has requested to leave (end of first season) because he feels he cannot reach his personal ambitions at Manchester United (and he recently also signed a 5 year contract), even though we won the Premier League, League Cup and made the final of the FA Cup and Champions League.

All because I rejected a £3.9m bid from Juventus.

Please.

Any way to recover this situation? ^^

ndlle9.png

Utterly ridiculous if I end up losing him after a measly £3.9m bid turning his head when he's already at a top club.

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Any way to recover this situation? ^^

ndlle9.png

Utterly ridiculous if I end up losing him after a measly £3.9m bid turning his head when he's already at a top club.

Try this:

1) Tell him you'll let him leave in order to placate him and improve morale.

2) Leave him on the transfer list forever. Do not sell him at the undoubtably low prices you'll be offered. Keep playing him from time to time.

3) Hopefully he will eventually rescind the transfer request.

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1) Tell him you'll let him leave in order to placate him and improve morale.

He won't even talk to me, so this isn't an option.

I'm thinking of just leaving it, and hopefully time will work it out. Its just plain stupid though, surely a bug?

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He won't even talk to me, so this isn't an option.

I'm thinking of just leaving it, and hopefully time will work it out. Its just plain stupid though, surely a bug?

Sounds frustrating and annoying, I agree. If not a bug then a poorly implemented feature.

I would offer him out but then refuse all bids. My guess is after 5-6 months he will request to be removed from the transfer list. This happened to me when Micah Richards was my backup RB and I wasn't playing him very much.

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Yet he's started the season on fire, I play him every game, he reacts positively to my team talks, yet he feels that "our relationship has broken down"?

Doesn't make any sense. :thdn:

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Yet he's started the season on fire, I play him every game, he reacts positively to my team talks, yet he feels that "our relationship has broken down"?

Doesn't make any sense. :thdn:

Have your captain have some words with him.

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Have your captain have some words with him.

I'll try that, see what happens. I've also transfer listed him now at £120m, which hopefully no one will bid, so over time, I hope he asks to be removed from the list.

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I'll tell you what happens in three... Fellaini's just bagged a hat trick of headers off corners in one match.

I'm the beneficiary but still :thdn:

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Januzaj, a 19 year old lad who has just broken through into the first team this season, has requested to leave (end of first season) because he feels he cannot reach his personal ambitions at Manchester United (and he recently also signed a 5 year contract), even though we won the Premier League, League Cup and made the final of the FA Cup and Champions League.

All because I rejected a £3.9m bid from Juventus.

Please.

Any way to recover this situation? ^^

ndlle9.png

Utterly ridiculous if I end up losing him after a measly £3.9m bid turning his head when he's already at a top club.

Just to add to this nonsense, this just popped up in my inbox:

ou0goo.png

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My biggest bug-bear with the ME is players 'hoofing' the ball in the direction of no-one. As I am trying to play a possesion based tactic the regularity of this leaves me enraged. It happens in open play & set-pieces. I would much rather the player gave the ball away occasionally than hit the ball straight-out or litteraly into a space where I have no-one near. My guess is this must have something to do with composure, at least in open play.

I can barely relate any to this. Naturally your role/duty setup needs to make sure that you have options deep, and going with a less aggressive mentality might also help things out (less forward balls, but that is common sense imho -- the most attacking/aggressive strategies are means to penetrate the box as their name tag suggests with whatever range of passing you encourage, not to play keep-ball). There's a reason why Barca's style can actually be seen as an inversed Catenaccio. Unlike Catenaccio, which was born out of distrust of skill, Barca are all about skill. But the idea here of keeping the ball is still one carrying defensive connotations: "If they don't have the ball, they can't score." It's not meant to aggressively penetrate the box, but to keep the opposition out of the game. This likewise can barely be considered an "attacking" strategy neither in FM nor in real football, and Spain's last couple of tournament campaigns weren't about end to end stuff and lots of action in the box on either side of the pitch either.

That's why I personally think some are utilizing the most extreme possession instructions actually to a fault (and I've seen that happen), like when they need a goal bust still insist on passing it about. You greatly reduce the likely hood of balls able to split defenses and pick out an unmarked forward from deep, as well as diagonal balls unsettling defenses and moves switching the flanks. The only thing that might still need some tweaking is that by default the ball is being played out of defense pretty quickly, but with the actual choice in passes (providing you have the options, as argued), you'd be pretty darn obsessed with just playing keep-ball to see that big of an issue here.

In particular with a side like Barcelona in the game I just don't see anyone really just hoofing it when you simply apply the team instructions that are connected to possession play (pass shorter, retain possession, etc.). They often even pass it short when such is a risk as opposition players are right on top of their passing target (watch out for PPMs that can interfere with this, such as "tries long range passes", etc.) In real football even Europe's top sides reknown for passing their opposition out of the park (Bayern and Barca) don't just pass and pass it about, as should have been apparent from last week to a wider audience when Bayern faced Arsenal and Toni Kroos in particular was playing opening balls from everywhere all game. If you need goals, opportunity needs to be carved out open from somewhere. Agreed about the first touches being hokey, but they're being looked at.

About tacklings, they've always been like that in FM. http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/385333-Computer-AI-is-the-biggest-cheat.?p=9445059#post9445059 That is likely going to be an ongoing project, and the history with that would suggest collective defending is one of the hardest things to model correctly in the game. The reason it only exists as it does is also the reason why you can't copy a Dortmund style pressing game, for instance.

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Must say I am seeing a very bizarre term of events in my save. If I change tactics each game (experimental) I do quite well, defending well and winning a lot of games albeit through the odd goal but not playing the greatest football in fact most is quite bland but I'm 5th in the Prem so it's success of sorts. From time to time I'll strike the sweet spot and play some lovely stuff so I will save and use that tactic the next game. However in the next game the tactic fails miserably. I fail to create any chances whatsoever and defend bloody awfully usually crashing to a bad defeat. I'll change tactic again the next game and start winning games by the odd goal and defending solidly again. It's only experimental. I am aware of "bedding in time" for tactics but I do totally understand this feeling some have of a whole random feel to the game and a lack of any real consistency.

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From time to time I'll strike the sweet spot and play some lovely stuff so I will save and use that tactic the next game. However in the next game the tactic fails miserably. I

The previous weak we tore Cardiff a new one at home, and suddenly the next away at Stamford Bridge we struggle.

There is no such thing as "that sweet spot", that kind of thinking is the bane of FM. As a manager could do, you're influencing probabilities. Playing a very aggressive d-line with a couple of Mertesackers might cost you a goal here and there, all opening up with Palace away at Arsenal could prove costful, running battle-ram against a side parking the bus could result in frustration (in particular if that crucial early lead doesn't come and the opposition hangs on and lasts the bombardment), etc.

I know it's just an experimental save. But not applying any kind of logics but random changes by definition, that is something that likely won't see much of support nor sympathy here. :-)

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No. No there isn't. The reason I know this is that I am actually playing it right now.

No. No they don't always do those things. :lol:

Look. If you are not enjoying the game then please feel free not to play it. Please even feel free to moan about it. But is there any chance that you and others like you could stop telling us who are actually playing and enjoying the game that it is "completely unplayable".

Must dash, got to go and fluke another win with my San Marino team. :lol:

UHmm

Ok Let's see.

#1 Ok so whether they do or don't is an opinion. I suppose I could spend hours on making a youtube video and prove my point. But I would much rather just agree to disagree on this fact. I'm sure I could even skim this thread and find countless of records of people complaining of similar items.

#2 "Completely unplayable" is also a very perceptual concept. Some people can handle watching their players just shoot the ball from 40 yards for absolutely no reason when you have specifically told them no to do so. They can say "it's just a bug" and just go on. Other people like me will say "This would never happen in real life". If the ME is nothing like real life I just can't play the game. So it's "Completely unplayable" for me. It's different for everyone. Different people can handle different levels of unrealism. Obviously this is just a simulation and there is going to be a lot of disparity between it and real life. But there is a fine line for everyone past which they can no longer enjoy the game.

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Has anyone figured out a way to get their players to stop taking pointless shots from god knows where for absolutely no reason?

The line of thinking here is that because the player has no passing option, he'll shoot. Won't turn around and pass it back to a teammate, he'll just shoot. Won't try and keep hold of the ball and wait for a passing option to open up, he'll just shoot.

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The line of thinking here is that because the player has no passing option, he'll shoot. Won't turn around and pass it back to a teammate, he'll just shoot. Won't try and keep hold of the ball and wait for a passing option to open up, he'll just shoot.

It never happened in FM13. I never saw them just hoof the ball from god knows where over and over.

I mean don't get me wrong it happens in real life. Sometimes they even go in. But it seems extreme in this game.

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Has anyone figured out a way to get their players to stop taking pointless shots from god knows where for absolutely no reason?
The line of thinking here is that because the player has no passing option, he'll shoot. Won't turn around and pass it back to a teammate, he'll just shoot. Won't try and keep hold of the ball and wait for a passing option to open up, he'll just shoot.

He'll shoot if you encourage fast attacking play through attacking team instructions or to a lesser extent player duties.

With a lower level of mentality you'll encourage him to take a little time to find a pass and to recycle possession. Now presuming you also have players making themselves available for a pass within the set passing range you'll see your team taking far less shots from distance.

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I can barely relate any to this. Naturally your role/duty setup needs to make sure that you have options deep, and going with a less aggressive mentality might also help things out (less forward balls, but that is common sense imho -- the most attacking/aggressive strategies are means to penetrate the box as their name tag suggests with whatever range of passing you encourage, not to play keep-ball). There's a reason why Barca's style can actually be seen as an inversed Catenaccio. Unlike Catenaccio, which was born out of distrust of skill, Barca are all about skill. But the idea here of keeping the ball is still one carrying defensive connotations: "If they don't have the ball, they can't score." It's not meant to aggressively penetrate the box, but to keep the opposition out of the game. This likewise can barely be considered an "attacking" strategy neither in FM nor in real football, and Spain's last couple of tournament campaigns weren't about end to end stuff and lots of action in the box on either side of the pitch either.

That's why I personally think some are utilizing the most extreme possession instructions actually to a fault (and I've seen that happen), like when they need a goal bust still insist on passing it about. You greatly reduce the likely hood of balls able to split defenses and pick out an unmarked forward from deep, as well as diagonal balls unsettling defenses and moves switching the flanks. The only thing that might still need some tweaking is that by default the ball is being played out of defense pretty quickly, but with the actual choice in passes (providing you have the options, as argued), you'd be pretty darn obsessed with just playing keep-ball to see that big of an issue here.

In particular with a side like Barcelona in the game I just don't see anyone really just hoofing it when you simply apply the team instructions that are connected to possession play (pass shorter, retain possession, etc.). They often even pass it short when such is a risk as opposition players are right on top of their passing target (watch out for PPMs that can interfere with this, such as "tries long range passes", etc.) In real football even Europe's top sides reknown for passing their opposition out of the park (Bayern and Barca) don't just pass and pass it about, as should have been apparent from last week to a wider audience when Bayern faced Arsenal and Toni Kroos in particular was playing opening balls from everywhere all game. If you need goals, opportunity needs to be carved out open from somewhere. Agreed about the first touches being hokey, but they're being looked at.

About tacklings, they've always been like that in FM. http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/385333-Computer-AI-is-the-biggest-cheat.?p=9445059#post9445059 That is likely going to be an ongoing project, and the history with that would suggest collective defending is one of the hardest things to model correctly in the game. The reason it only exists as it does is also the reason why you can't copy a Dortmund style pressing game, for instance.

Eh, all very good but I actually employ a Control, retain possesion, much higher tempo much higher defensive line & into the bargain I just went through the whole season undefeated. Could be my tactics right enough I suppose but if I change to my back-up tactic of Contain, much higher defensive line much lower tempo I notice little difference. Then again I've just watched almost 250 games on full match highlights so as I stated originally, I have no idea.

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After a season and-a-half on full highlights, and after however many updates, I still wonder what the hell possessed them to do whatever they did with the match engine this year to make the game such a joyless experience. There have always been little things in past match engines that could have been better/more realistic, but this year, crikey. I've played every game since the 3D engine was introduced for FM09 and I've enjoyed them all more or less equally until this year.

To clarify, I've only ever played as Liverpool, and in my first full season, I won the league by a margin bigger by far than I ever have at that stage before; lost barely any games etc. etc., but the attacking play just seems to be absolutely inept. I've currently got Cavani, Lukaku and Timo Werner as my strikers, and all are massively prone to missing easy chances. I've got Pogba and Mata, and neither can carry the ball to save their lives and rarely manage a killer pass; in fact, open play goals not resulting from conspicuous opposition errors are rare. Yet in my first full season, Doria, one of my centre-backs, got over 10 goals, all from corners bar the odd one from an indirect free kick, and I scored a total of about six outswinging direct free kicks from basically just outside the corner of the box, wide of the 18 yard line (so a massively improbable angle).

It reached the point where seeing some of these goals from improbable free kicks and corner after corner go in actually just annoyed me. Wide players ALWAYS inexplicably slow up and let their defender catch up when they're clear to put a ball in unopposed, players with 15 or better for touch and technique regularly trap the ball 5 yards or more, almost NO ONE can dribble reliably, they just blunder moronically into tackles, strikers ALMOST NEVER win aerial challenges or get to crosses ahead of defenders, and all attacking players just look slow, weak, are easy to dispossess, and more often than not too slow to get shots off in situations where, in past games, they'd be getting them away and hitting the target quite often. And time and again, strikers appear to be through on goal, only to dither and allow a last ditch challenge to dispossess them.

All of this works both ways of course, and my defensive record in my first season was probably better than it's ever been. But I just find little to no enjoyment or reward in the game; it's very hard to get a team playing good football and scoring a lot when fundamental traits of the match engine seem to have rendered even the best attackers in the world slow, weak, timid, wasteful, clumsy, and utterly brainless. Massively disappointed.

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The previous weak we tore Cardiff a new one at home, and suddenly the next away at Stamford Bridge we struggle.

There is no such thing as "that sweet spot", that kind of thinking is the bane of FM. As a manager could do, you're influencing probabilities. Playing a very aggressive d-line with a couple of Mertesackers might cost you a goal here and there, all opening up with Palace away at Arsenal could prove costful, running battle-ram against a side parking the bus could result in frustration (in particular if that crucial early lead doesn't come and the opposition hangs on and lasts the bombardment), etc.

I know it's just an experimental save. But not applying any kind of logics but random changes by definition, that is something that likely won't see much of support nor sympathy here. :-)

To be fair I have been applying a lot of logical changes. Changes in philosophy, using non specialist roles, specialist roles, varied formations, different player instructions, basic player instructions, holistic tactics, extreme tactics, as I say different strategies for different matches. I also say I'm aware that because I change a lot with this experiment familiarity won't become fluid but it's an experiment.

What I have noticed though is that a majority of the time no matter what strategy, formation, player roles etc you employ the football and behaviour is pretty much the same. I don't see a great difference between a DM and a DLP, very little difference between an AF and a DLF and so on. Yes of course there are differences in extremes like if you play a high line as opposed to a deep line but certainly wingers act the same as Inside Forwards and I have only seen a SS bomb past a DLF a handful of times. I see anchor men hit meaningless balls 30 yards despite having team mates close by and strikers and wide men just shooting for 60 yards when past the last defender is a massive annoyance in the game. Open play goals are rare with a seemingly total lack of vision even with the most obvious of choices which is a shame because first patch I saw lovely long range defence splitting through balls and some play I had never seen before in FM.

It may be that I watch on comprehensive highlights but it seems the same channel of play every time. Back and forth at 100 miles per hour until either a tackle leads to recycled possession, a blocked cross leads to a corner or a shot ends up in the goalkeepers hands or is blasted wide or high. Very little in the way of a midfield battle. I can honestly liken the comprehensive highlights as akin to watching basketball. Logical In match changes seem to make little difference with players behaving the same after an extreme change in philosophy for instance.

I understand your post wholly but regards to hitting the sweet spot that "should" give you a good base to start on but is frustrating that in the next match it performs at the other end of the scale. Without a good base to start with it really is a random experiment that you would go in with each and every match., a real case of ~ "let's see what might work this week" and that totally defeats the object of making decent tactics because you have to rip the rule book up each time you play.

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He'll shoot if you encourage fast attacking play through attacking team instructions or to a lesser extent player duties.

With a lower level of mentality you'll encourage him to take a little time to find a pass and to recycle possession. Now presuming you also have players making themselves available for a pass within the set passing range you'll see your team taking far less shots from distance.

Even on Counter, with the shouts "Play slower", "Retain Possession", "Shorter Passing", "Play out of Defense" and "Work Ball into Box" the attacking play is too fast and urgent.

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Must say I am seeing a very bizarre term of events in my save. If I change tactics each game (experimental) I do quite well, defending well and winning a lot of games albeit through the odd goal but not playing the greatest football in fact most is quite bland but I'm 5th in the Prem so it's success of sorts. From time to time I'll strike the sweet spot and play some lovely stuff so I will save and use that tactic the next game. However in the next game the tactic fails miserably. I fail to create any chances whatsoever and defend bloody awfully usually crashing to a bad defeat. I'll change tactic again the next game and start winning games by the odd goal and defending solidly again. It's only experimental. I am aware of "bedding in time" for tactics but I do totally understand this feeling some have of a whole random feel to the game and a lack of any real consistency.

I've read your newer post too and I think I understand your line of thinking. Keep something in mind though. You might be tinkering with the tactic to find the "sweet spot", but it might be the sweet spot against that team with those players and tactics. A different team will have different weaknesses and tactics. Just something to consider, if you haven't already.

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Starting to wind me up now, its happened a few times.

My chief scouts says that my loan players isn't being played in the agreed position...

10zvl88.png

So I go to have a chat to resolve the issue with the manager of the loaning club...

3eooh.png

But I'm made to look like a complete idiot... is this another poorly implemented feature? Seems to happen over, and over, again.

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Has anyone figured out a way to get their players to stop taking pointless shots from god knows where for absolutely no reason?

If you are having regular issues with this, id suggest a detailed post of your tactics in the tactics forum, where someone will be able to advise you on how to avoid it.

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Starting to wind me up now, its happened a few times.

My chief scouts says that my loan players isn't being played in the agreed position...

So I go to have a chat to resolve the issue with the manager of the loaning club...

But I'm made to look like a complete idiot... is this another poorly implemented feature? Seems to happen over, and over, again.

It would be great if you could post this in the bugs forum.

What does Vietto's profile page say? On the "positions" tab, you should be able to see a breakdown of how many games he's played and in what position. Not sure if you can see that information on loan players though.

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It would be great if you could post this in the bugs forum.

What does Vietto's profile page say? On the "positions" tab, you should be able to see a breakdown of how many games he's played and in what position. Not sure if you can see that information on loan players though.

I'd have to check, in the initial loan agreement, I stated he had to play as as striker, as that's the position I want him to play for me in a few years.

I've had the same loan feedback on a few other plays too this season (Lingard and Petrucci, I think), to just be made out as a mug.

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After a season and-a-half on full highlights, and after however many updates, I still wonder what the hell possessed them to do whatever they did with the match engine this year to make the game such a joyless experience. There have always been little things in past match engines that could have been better/more realistic, but this year, crikey. I've played every game since the 3D engine was introduced for FM09 and I've enjoyed them all more or less equally until this year.

To clarify, I've only ever played as Liverpool, and in my first full season, I won the league by a margin bigger by far than I ever have at that stage before; lost barely any games etc. etc., but the attacking play just seems to be absolutely inept. I've currently got Cavani, Lukaku and Timo Werner as my strikers, and all are massively prone to missing easy chances. I've got Pogba and Mata, and neither can carry the ball to save their lives and rarely manage a killer pass; in fact, open play goals not resulting from conspicuous opposition errors are rare. Yet in my first full season, Doria, one of my centre-backs, got over 10 goals, all from corners bar the odd one from an indirect free kick, and I scored a total of about six outswinging direct free kicks from basically just outside the corner of the box, wide of the 18 yard line (so a massively improbable angle).

It reached the point where seeing some of these goals from improbable free kicks and corner after corner go in actually just annoyed me. Wide players ALWAYS inexplicably slow up and let their defender catch up when they're clear to put a ball in unopposed, players with 15 or better for touch and technique regularly trap the ball 5 yards or more, almost NO ONE can dribble reliably, they just blunder moronically into tackles, strikers ALMOST NEVER win aerial challenges or get to crosses ahead of defenders, and all attacking players just look slow, weak, are easy to dispossess, and more often than not too slow to get shots off in situations where, in past games, they'd be getting them away and hitting the target quite often. And time and again, strikers appear to be through on goal, only to dither and allow a last ditch challenge to dispossess them.

All of this works both ways of course, and my defensive record in my first season was probably better than it's ever been. But I just find little to no enjoyment or reward in the game; it's very hard to get a team playing good football and scoring a lot when fundamental traits of the match engine seem to have rendered even the best attackers in the world slow, weak, timid, wasteful, clumsy, and utterly brainless. Massively disappointed.

I agree with this in its entirety. This is the first fm where you can't see a difference in quality between Arsenal and Woking. It is a shame, because the rest of the game is probably SI's best ever effort, inspite of a few avoidable issues. I agree that this game is not unplayable, but as a real football and FM fan I don't find the ME on this edition enjoyable. Given the amount of issues SI have acknowledged, I'm glad to see that they don't seem happy with it either.

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But he wasn't in the position to shoot, like I said it was a ridiculous angle. I see one of the mods have commented on this as well, so I will just wait and hope this ridiculous bug gets corrected.

I did comment on it, but it's just speculation from my side. I don't play with the big teams. We get comments frequently that.players are taking shots.from everywhere, but there are never any more details given. I have no doubt that it can be improved tactically, so it's worth looking at. :thup:

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I'd have to check, in the initial loan agreement, I stated he had to play as as striker, as that's the position I want him to play for me in a few years.

I've had the same loan feedback on a few other plays too this season (Lingard and Petrucci, I think), to just be made out as a mug.

The reason why I ask is because it isn't clear what the bug is. It might be your coach giving the wrong information, when your player is actually playing as a striker. On the other hand, your coach might be right, but the manager chat is bugged where somehow he thinks he's been playing him as a striker when he hasn't.

It would be good to clear up who is right/wrong here when you post it as a bug.

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Starting to wind me up now, its happened a few times.

My chief scouts says that my loan players isn't being played in the agreed position...

So I go to have a chat to resolve the issue with the manager of the loaning club...

But I'm made to look like a complete idiot... is this another poorly implemented feature? Seems to happen over, and over, again.

Did you check on the player's information screen to see what positions he was being played in?

I've been loaning about 8-12 players out for the last 4-5 seasons and I've seen this I think a couple of times + the other message where the player isn't being played at all a couple of times. Both times I've had this message the player in question had been used in a variety of positions, playing in the correct position probably around 33% of the time. I've never seen the reply you've had above, is it just the other manager being an arse maybe?

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I did comment on it, but it's just speculation from my side. I don't play with the big teams. We get comments frequently that.players are taking shots.from everywhere, but there are never any more details given. I have no doubt that it can be improved tactically, so it's worth looking at. :thup:

Actually, I am more annoyed by the AI opposition players taking one touch and then shoot than I am with my own team doing the same, because my team does that much more rarely now. So this is definitely not an issue with tactics, unless, of course, you think that the AI tactics are illogical and poorly set up as well.

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I agree with this in its entirety. This is the first fm where you can't see a difference in quality between Arsenal and Woking. It is a shame, because the rest of the game is probably SI's best ever effort, inspite of a few avoidable issues. I agree that this game is not unplayable, but as a real football and FM fan I don't find the ME on this edition enjoyable. Given the amount of issues SI have acknowledged, I'm glad to see that they don't seem happy with it either.

I just can't believe that we are next March and the game is still in the actual conditions.

Really, i find this unacceptable.

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Agreed.. it is time for a fix for those unbelieveble high scoring games between AI.

Breaks the whole immersion for me.

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I noticed that the shot during the game close (where you see the players up close), has become the same as the TV ... it happens to you?

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No LONG SHOTS.

I am tired to see my team try to attempt long shots which will never score. I set all players to shot less often with retain possession and work ball into box, still there are 10+long shots per game and its just rediculous. You never see a possession based team try that much long shots. I can't see there is any help with work ball into box since they keep on shooting outside the box. Also, the shoot less often caused my players to pass the ball from their final third to midfields...even its a clear cut chance.

And the long shot accuracy is another pain which need a lot change Id say. How come a player with 17 long shot and 15+ for finishing and tech cant hit the net even once? When I watch Euro Championship in real life they at least shot 1/4 of their long shots on target, even its captured by keeper.

I am not losing the game cause of it but it is just a pain when my team never play along with my instructions. I sincerely hope there will be some change asap.

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