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Stuart Warren

Football Manager 2014 - Update 14.2.2 - Feedback Thread

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In this particular case, I can select "MiC" manually.Does that mean if I don't select it, the AF will run centrally against defenders and not search the channels ? I'm asking this because on past FM's "MiC" was selected by default on most striker roles except TM,DF or DLF in 2 striker formation.It was also default on most midfielders playing in a narrow formation.

Anything that can now be selected isn't on by default.

SI may well have re-evaluated the way they set up a few Roles, which would explain the differences you see relative to prior versions of the game.

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Its so funny how any tactic I try works until all fluid on match preparation then everything goes down.

Once the ME and AI start working out your tactic you have to tweak a little to keep it guessing, I've noticed that around game 20, it gets harder to win and score goals, that's when you have to change things a bit

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Once the ME and AI start working out your tactic you have to tweak a little to keep it guessing, I've noticed that around game 20, it gets harder to win and score goals, that's when you have to change things a bit

That's one of the thing that make no sense to me with this FM14 ME. It basically looks like the more your players are familiar with your tactics and your ideas, the worse they perform.

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Once the ME and AI start working out your tactic you have to tweak a little to keep it guessing, I've noticed that around game 20, it gets harder to win and score goals, that's when you have to change things a bit

Ok, help me then what to change. I have certain style of play I like, and wont change my preferred style because they know I play like that. Every team knows how barca play but they never changed it??!

And funny thing I created attacking corner routine when I send ball to my target man on far post, he flick it to my striker and he score, and it worked very well for 15-16 games and I scored a lot from them, after tactic became fluid I didn't score from corner for rest of season. It wasn't exploit corner routine, it was logical and I don't want to change it.

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Ok, help me then what to change. I have certain style of play I like, and wont change my preferred style because they know I play like that. Every team knows how barca play but they never changed it??!

Not even Barca play the with the same setup every week.

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Not even Barca play the with the same setup every week.

Talking about playing style.... and they play same not every weak, they play it for years.

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Talking about playing style.... and they play same not every weak, they play it for years.

They obviously have their philosophies that won't change, but it doesn't mean they don't make certain changes depending on who they face.

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Ok, help me then what to change. I have certain style of play I like, and wont change my preferred style because they know I play like that. Every team knows how barca play but they never changed it??!

And funny thing I created attacking corner routine when I send ball to my target man on far post, he flick it to my striker and he score, and it worked very well for 15-16 games and I scored a lot from them, after tactic became fluid I didn't score from corner for rest of season. It wasn't exploit corner routine, it was logical and I don't want to change it.

It's been said before that if you can snuff out Barca's playmakers you can beat them as has been seen, problem Barca had was they had no plan B.

Maybe look at using a target man, only 1 wide player, playing narrower, play wider etc, just keep AI guessing, basically whatever you do now, just tweak it a little every few games.

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They obviously have their philosophies that won't change, but it doesn't mean they don't make certain changes depending on who they face.

I have never said they do not adapt to opponent they are facing....

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Talking about playing style.... and they play same not every weak, they play it for years.

Have you watched them play this season, at all?

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That's one of the thing that make no sense to me with this FM14 ME. It basically looks like the more your players are familiar with your tactics and your ideas, the worse they perform.

If you managed a real life team would you not look at your opposition team and adjust your team accordingly so as to beat them, well the AI is doing the exact same.

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Have you watched them play this season, at all?

New coach, new ideas, same philosophy.

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I have never said they do not adapt to opponent they are facing....

There's your answer, the AI is doing this with your team and tactics

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New coach, new ideas, same philosophy.

So come up with some new ideas without changing your philosophy? Isn't that possble?

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So come up with some new ideas without changing your philosophy? Isn't that possble?

Ok, give me some advices what to change. Im playing TM, exploit flanks, direct into space passes, float cross.

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Ok, give me some advices what to change. Im playing TM, exploit flanks, direct into space passes, float cross.
I have no idea. I'm the wrong person to ask :D

There's a whole sub-forum for advice like that.

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I have no idea. I'm the wrong person to ask :D

There's a whole sub-forum for advice like that.

nice lol

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Ok, give me some advices what to change. Im playing TM, exploit flanks, direct into space passes, float cross.

As I said, mix it up a little, try deep lying striker, play narrower, short passing, and change tempo of game.

Also how many tactics have you got, I play with 3 tactics and change them around depending on who I'm playing, this also keeps AI guessing as you don't play same every game.

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If you managed a real life team would you not look at your opposition team and adjust your team accordingly so as to beat them, well the AI is doing the exact same.

I understand that and would generally agree, but here's the problem - in FM14 this means you can make a new tactic with new formation every game (which can be 2 times a week), from one game you play 4-4-2, the next 3-6-1, then 4-3-3, then 3-5-2, then 4-5-1, and you would be better off than playing 2, maybe 3 tactics in the whole season...And that doesn't make much sense, does it?

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I understand that and would generally agree, but here's the problem - in FM14 this means you can make a new tactic with new formation every game (which can be 2 times a week), from one game you play 4-4-2, the next 3-6-1, then 4-3-3, then 3-5-2, then 4-5-1, and you would be better off than playing 2, maybe 3 tactics in the whole season...And that doesn't make much sense, does it?

You don't need to. I have two tactics I use for the entire season. Here and there I'd make a small change, depending on who it is I'm playing. I struggled a little in the beginning, but now that the tactics are fluid, I'm doing fairly well.

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I understand that and would generally agree, but here's the problem - in FM14 this means you can make a new tactic with new formation every game (which can be 2 times a week), from one game you play 4-4-2, the next 3-6-1, then 4-3-3, then 3-5-2, then 4-5-1, and you would be better off than playing 2, maybe 3 tactics in the whole season...And that doesn't make much sense, does it?

Most teams I see use 2-3 different tactics and change them around, I've seen Man U playing 4-4-2/4-2-3-1 and 4-5-1.....................this not uncommon, even Mancini was playing with a back 3 in a 3-5-2 system last season before he left.

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Once again, I agree with you guys, you are 100% right. But you're missing my point. What I'm trying to say is that in FM14 it would be hypothetically a good idea to play with a totally different formation and tactic every game, just "to keep AI and ME guessing". FM is trying to be a simulation, not an arcade (I presume), and how would players in real life react to playing in a whole different formation and tactic every 3-7 days? There's the problem.

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Most teams I see use 2-3 different tactics and change them around, I've seen Man U playing 4-4-2/4-2-3-1 and 4-5-1.....................this not uncommon, even Mancini was playing with a back 3 in a 3-5-2 system last season before he left.

Last season there were 47 teams in the top 5 leagues (England, France, Spain, Italy, Germany) who used 4 or more formations at least once in their league campaign.

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Once again, I agree with you guys, you are 100% right. But you're missing my point. What I'm trying to say is that in FM14 it would be hypothetically a good idea to play with a totally different formation and tactic every game, just "to keep AI and ME guessing". FM is trying to be a simulation, not an arcade (I presume), and how would players in real life react to playing in a whole different formation and tactic every 3-7 days. There's the problem.

It would also be a terrible idea in many ways, because none of your styles end up cohesive. And that is replicated in FM.

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Once again, I agree with you guys, you are 100% right. But you're missing my point. What I'm trying to say is that in FM14 it would be hypothetically a good idea to play with a totally different formation and tactic every game, just "to keep AI and ME guessing". FM is trying to be a simulation, not an arcade (I presume), and how would players in real life react to playing in a whole different formation and tactic every 3-7 days. There's the problem.

In theory, you can play a different system to throw a curve ball at the opposition. They wouldn't expect it and might not know how to deal with it, you're right. The problem with that is Tactical Familiarity. Your own players won't be used to the system either, so you might be doing more harm than good.

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Once again, I agree with you guys, you are 100% right. But you're missing my point. What I'm trying to say is that in FM14 it would be hypothetically a good idea to play with a totally different formation and tactic every game, just "to keep AI and ME guessing". FM is trying to be a simulation, not an arcade (I presume), and how would players in real life react to playing in a whole different formation and tactic every 3-7 days? There's the problem.

As has been said, your players will not know what the hell is going on from game to game, pick 2 good solid tactics, one for attacking a weaker team and one when up against a stronger team. I play with 2 a 3-1-4-2 and 4-1-4-1 and tweak players duties in game if necessary.

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In theory, you can play a different system to throw a curve ball at the opposition. They wouldn't expect it and might not know how to deal with it, you're right. The problem with that is Tactical Familiarity. Your own players won't be used to the system either, so you might be doing more harm than good.

Exactly my point. But in FM14, your players tactic familiarity and success in matches are in inverse relation. Of course we all agree that if you play only one tactic for the whole season and even more (managing a top team in the league), other top teams would maybe read and learn to exploit your tactic, but the quality of your players would surely be enough to beat the weaker teams, regardless of them knowing your tactics (especially if your team is very familiar with their roles and your ideas). That is not the case in FM14.

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Exactly my point. But in FM14, your players tactic familiarity and success in matches are in inverse relation. Of course we all agree that if you play only one tactic for the whole season and even more (managing a top team in the league), other top teams would maybe read and learn to exploit your tactic, but the quality of your players would surely be enough to beat the weaker teams, regardless of them knowing your tactics (especially if your team is very familiar with their roles and your ideas). That is not the case in FM14.

Except its not in inverse relation in FM14 at all.

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Exactly my point. But in FM14, your players tactic familiarity and success in matches are in inverse relation. Of course we all agree that if you play only one tactic for the whole season and even more (managing a top team in the league), other top teams would maybe read and learn to exploit your tactic, but the quality of your players would surely be enough to beat the weaker teams, regardless of them knowing your tactics (especially if your team is very familiar with their roles and your ideas). That is not the case in FM14.

This may have been the case in previous games FM12 for example, the 4-3-3 system was unbeatable and the game then became all too easy, the SI guys have realised this and made it harder to play. Small teams do beat big teams though, a good tactical coach can get a result with having lesser players.

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Except its not in inverse relation in FM14 at all.

In my experience it is. Not always, but it happens way to often. I always start my career with Maribor (and always use fake players before I start the game) since I'm from Slovenia. Needless to say, Maribor is "in a league of their own", best players, best infrastructure, etc. I created a 4-2-3-1 tactic, with rigid/control, with wingers playing Inside Forward, slower tempo, possesion based tactic, etc. I start my season with a strong win after strong win, and of course I said to myself "wow, if my team is playing like this with bad familiarity with this tactic, imagine how powerful we will be when they will be completely understanding it". Well, towards the end of the season I start to lose games against teams who are fighting to avoid relegation, and are barely professional clubs, having 25+ shots, them having 3 shots, and we end up losing 2-3...

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Exactly my point. But in FM14, your players tactic familiarity and success in matches are in inverse relation.

Did you skip over my post a little higher up?

You don't need to. I have two tactics I use for the entire season. Here and there I'd make a small change, depending on who it is I'm playing. I struggled a little in the beginning, but now that the tactics are fluid, I'm doing fairly well.

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In my experience it is. Not always, but it happens way to often. I always start my career with Maribor (and always use fake players before I start the game) since I'm from Slovenia. Needless to say, Maribor is "in a league of their own", best players, best infrastructure, etc. I created a 4-2-3-1 tactic, with rigid/control, with wingers playing Inside Forward, slower tempo, possesion based tactic, etc. I start my season with a strong win after strong win, and of course I said to myself "wow, if my team is playing like this with bad familiarity with this tactic, imagine how powerful we will be when they will be completely understanding it". Well, towards the end of the season I start to lose games against teams who are fighting to avoid relegation, and are barely professional clubs, having 25+ shots, them having 3 shots, and we end up losing 2-3...

That's likely due to complacency not tactical familiarity, there are far more than one inputs to the result.

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This may have been the case in previous games FM12 for example.

Still the case in every iteration thereafter. The stronger side is more likely to come out the winner (assuming it's not ****ed up by the player... or the AI). The AI never "read" or "learned" your tactics, and in general, it is often quite overrated by many for FM 2014 also, imo. wwfan, one who has worked together with SI and frequently gives advice, states himself that he does barely do anything mid-match than adjusting to conditions via a couple of shouts here and now. But not always. He's been advocating this for years, and still everybody seems to believe the AI would be some knows-it-all entity that would read and crack and change fortunes around at will, even possessing levels of immediate micro-control over players the human manager wouldn't have.

Then there's the issue that you need to learn to accept that not every match you dominate you will win, but that's the case in real football too. The correlation between dominating possession and winning is less than 60% according to Opta stats, and even that between having more shots and winning is less than 70% still. If there's something in FM 2014 that exaggerates this is up for debate, the thing is that no possession or shot count will grant you a right to win. And none of these will turn a low scoring game such as football into something else completely, i.e. if that one shot an opponent has goes in, then it goes in, simple as that. This can only lead to frustration if you thus conclude the game would do such just cause. If such happens regularly, and you're wasting shot on shot on shot, the first thing I would look at would be caused by the tactical set-up.

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Did you skip over my post a little higher up?

No I didn't, it's just the thing is that my experiences are different than yours obviously.

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No I didn't, it's just the thing is that my experiences are different than yours obviously.

You're blaming the fact that your tactic became more fluid, but it isn't that. That's not a guess.

It's likely to be, as hluraven said, motivation levels (complacency) that is to blame.

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Still the case in every iteration thereafter. The stronger side is more likely to come out the winner. The Ai never "read" or "learned" your tactics, and in general, it is often quite overrated by many for FM 2014 also, imo.

Then there's the issue that you need to learn to accept that not every match you dominate you will win, but that's the case in real football too. The correlation between dominating possession and winning is less than 60% according to Opta stats, and even that between having more shots and winning is less than 70% still. If there's something in FM 2014 that exaggerates this is up for debate, the thing is that no possession or shot count will grant you a right to win. And none of these will turn a low scoring game such as football into something else completely, i.e. if that one shot an opponent has goes in, then it goes in, simple as that. This can only lead to frustration if you thus conclude the game would do such just cause. If such happens regularly, and you're wasting shot on shot on shot, the first thing I would look at would be caused by the tactical set-up.

Don't know why your replying to my post as I agree with what you say, you have no divine right to win everything all the time, if the game is harder because of this, then good because FM12 was after a while pretty boring as it was all too easy to win, once you sussed out the ME weakness.

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You're blaming the fact that your tactic became more fluid, but it isn't that. That's not a guess. It's likely to be, as hluraven said, motivation levels (complacency) that is to blame.

Okay, I understand that, and quite frankly, I agree with the idea that SI tried to implement here. I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's too severe, happens to often. Of course there will be games where a team will be dominating with 60% possesion, having 20+ shots in the game, the other team only 2, and the weaker team still comes out victorious. I know that doesn't mean you'll win every game, that bad games happen, I support that idea, with all of the complacency, and your-opponents-being-prepared-for-your-tactics ideas. But it's just too severe, it happens way too often, things like this happen 2, maybe 3 times a season for a strong team in their league, but this happens like every 3rd or 4th game in FM14.

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Okay, I understand that, and quite frankly, I agree with the idea that SI tried to implement here. I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's too severe, happens to often. Of course there will be games where a team will be dominating with 60% possesion, having 20+ shots in the game, the other team only 2, and the weaker team still comes out victorious. I know that doesn't mean you'll win every game, that bad games happen, I support that idea, with all of the complacency, and your-opponents-being-prepared-for-your-tactics ideas. But it's just too severe, it happens way too often, things like this happen 2, maybe 3 times a season for a strong team in their league, but this happens like every 3rd or 4th game in FM14.

I hate to say it, but if it's happening that often, you're doing something (or not doing something) that's making it happen that often.

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I hate to say it, but if it's happening that often, you're doing something (or not doing something) that's making it happen that often.

Okay, of course I'm open to that, I understand that that is a possiblity, I'm not saying I'm perfect and a football god. It's just that this is the thing that happens way too often, and it gets me frustrated. Some people even complained with FM13 game engine, but to be honest I never had much problems with FM13 game engine and things like that, it was never frustrating me, but this year something is amiss.

Look man, if I play against ANY team, and possesion is 50-50, I have 15 shots, the other team has 10 shots, and they beat me 3-1 or something like that, I'm completely fine with that, I did something wrong, there was a problem with me, I lost that game for a reason. But losing or drawing 10+ games a season, when you dominate the possesion, having 20+ shots to their 2-3 shots, losing the game, or end up drawing the game after leading 4-0, and then get 4 goals of 4 shots in the last 15 minutes of the game...I mean come on, that can't be completely my fault, something else isn't right here, that's all I'm saying...

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Okay, of course I'm open to that, I understand that that is a possiblity, I'm not saying I'm perfect and a football god. It's just that this is the thing that happens way too often, and it gets me frustrated. Some people even complained with FM13 game engine, but to be honest I never had much problems with FM13 game engine and things like that, it was never frustrating me, but this year something is amiss.

Look man, if I play against ANY team, and possesion is 50-50, I have 15 shots, the other team has 10 shots, and they beat me 3-1 or something like that, I'm completely fine with that, I did something wrong, there was a problem with me, I lost that game for a reason. But losing or drawing 10+ games a season, when you dominate the possesion, having 20+ shots to their 2-3 shots, losing the game, or end up drawing the game after leading 4-0, and then get 4 goals of 4 shots in the last 15 minutes of the game...I mean come on, that can't be completely my faults, something else isn't right here, that's all I'm saying...

Then the key is to look at those 10+ games a season, learn why you are losing and improve on it.

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Okay, of course I'm open to that, I understand that that is a possiblity, I'm not saying I'm perfect and a football god. It's just that this is the thing that happens way too often, and it gets me frustrated. Some people even complained with FM13 game engine, but to be honest I never had much problems with FM13 game engine and things like that, it was never frustrating me, but this year something is amiss.

Look man, if I play against ANY team, and possesion is 50-50, I have 15 shots, the other team has 10 shots, and they beat me 3-1 or something like that, I'm completely fine with that, I did something wrong, there was a problem with me, I lost that game for a reason. But losing or drawing 10+ games a season, when you dominate the possesion, having 20+ shots to their 2-3 shots, losing the game, or end up drawing the game after leading 4-0, and then get 4 goals of 4 shots in the last 15 minutes of the game...I mean come on, that can't be completely my fault, something else isn't right here, that's all I'm saying...

This:

Then the key is to look at those 10+ games a season, learn why you are losing and improve on it.

To give you an example: I had a problem at the end of games too. I had a mid-table team and I'd notice after going 2-0 up against similar or better teams, that we'd just completely collapse and end up drawing 2-2 or losing 3-2. After the 2nd or 3rd game, I realised that when trying to park the bus, my team or my tactic or both, isn't coping. So I changed my approach to the last 10 mins of a game when leading by 2+ goals and it worked!

What I see a lot on these forums (and I'm not accusing you, just generalising) is that people don't attempt to change anything and expecting to get a different result OR they change random things hoping to get lucky. With a little bit of thought behind decisions, you can go a long way.

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I can accept that my team is maybe complacent, im gladbach top of league 16 wins 2 draws 0 defeats, then all collapses. How to fight complacency. In fm11 I could do that because there was ass report before match so I could see whos complacent but now I don't know whos complacent in my team. :)

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I can accept that my team is maybe complacent, im gladbach top of league 16 wins 2 draws 0 defeats, then all collapses. How to fight complacency. In fm11 I could do that because there was ass report before match so I could see whos complacent but now I don't know whos complacent in my team. :)

You can still see it during a match. It's under the analysis tab. Assistant feedback/report or something similar?

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You can still see it during a match. It's under the analysis tab. Assistant feedback/report or something similar?

I need it in pre-match, not during the match :/

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SI seriously needs to review this thing of opponent teams reacting in the last 20 or 15 minutes when they are completly dominated during the rest of the match. Players are composed, motivated and it's a known issue in football that the team without possession has a lot more physical stress than the team with possession.

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I need it in pre-match, not during the match :/

Unfortunately, you can't see it pre-match. It's something I did bring up before....just can't remember where!

The closest thing to that, that you can do is to click on each player --> Reports --> Form

Under the "Form" tab there's a button that says "Form" (middle left) change that to "Feedback".

That will show you what the player's state of mind WAS for the previous game.

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Unfortunately, you can't see it pre-match. It's something I did bring up before....just can't remember where!

The closest thing to that, that you can do is to click on each player --> Reports --> Form

Under the "Form" tab there's a button that says "Form" (middle left) change that to "Feedback".

That will show you what the player's state of mind WAS for the previous game.

Tnx for that, but that doesn't help me for current match.

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Tnx for that, but that doesn't help me for current match.

It's the closest you'll get to it in FM14.

If the player was showing signs of complacency and you won that game, chances are he'll be complacent again.

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Hammer - I'm assuming from your stats on crosses that Downing is taking all your corners (which I am 99% sure count as crosses in the analysis). So realistically you need to try and ignore them when working stuff out. You also (from the pics) have close to 20% completion rate - which I would have said is pretty good for crosses. Have you tried one of the wide players as an IF by the way? As they will cross sometimes, but will cut in and try and score themselves as well - giving you more options - and more importantly giving the opposition something else to think about. As someone else said - they (At present) can simply double up on the winger (Which WILL mean that a lot of crosses are blocked - which you would expect in a 2v1 situation) and double mark Carroll - there are no other threats to their goal, so it's easy to defend against.

If you try an IF(A) plus W(S), then the IF will attack the back post, leaving Carroll to attack from post from the cross by the winger. THen there will be 2 players definitely in the box giving them more problems than you are currently creating.

I have tried the winger IF combo but it was hit and miss and some believe IF's are "broken" at the moment!!! I'll try a W S and IF A again. I thought it was a good set up because an IF in front of an attacking full back should then let the full back attack his left space. The annoying thing is that my left back is probably my best attacking defender yet my wingers are right footed so that's why I would have a LB A, IF or W on the left Support and winger attack on the right.. I did try having two attack duties on the same side but I see it's frowned upon.

Also lone striker roles are confusing. A DLF S seems to be a popular choice yet my thinking is you want that guy in the box.

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