Football Manager 2014 - Update 14.2.2 - Feedback Thread

[Dagenham_Dave]

In my save I manage a medium to small team and whenever I hit 2 or 3 straight good results and next match face an inferior team (even one 2 divisions below) I usually lose.

Keep knocking their defense knowing the inevitable will come sooner or later, and that is one lethal counter.

My only hope is score first on some corner, but sadly I lost most of those matches.

Guess the AI big teams are also suffering of this, and I personally think this issue cant be hotfixed cause it involves re-balancing the core ME in depth.

And I dont really feel like playing defensive against poor teams as a workaround just for that. I hardly believe 11 players like me could maintain a zero against a serious team as hard as we try.

If you don't change your approach when you play a team who plays defensively against you, don't blame the game if you can't win those matches. There is no 'issue' to 'hotfix' regarding this, apart from a human one.

[Domoboy23]

Just been given the shortlist for the BSN Player of the Season.

All 8 of them are strikers! Not sure if this is a bug or?

[Domoboy23]

Also I have 2 weeks left on my contract of £300 p/w. Been rejected for 5 teams due to them 'not being able to afford compensation ??

[Elwood]

I understand that there were no changes to the ME in the changelog, but can I have confirmation that there is really no change whatsoever? Because I'm definitely giving away a lot more penalties now. My setpieces also aren't as successful as they used to be (that said, I just trashed Arsenal 5-0 with all my goals from setpieces despite creating absolute squat from open play ?).

[obinna]

This thread reminds what a thankless job software development is. /rant

Anyways 2 thoughts on set pieces:

1. Match Preparation

I used to give up tons on set pieces until I did one simple thing: I started focusing on defending set pieces in match preparation. This was especially important once most of the game world was populated by regens (see next point). If you don't have tall (jump reach), brave defenders you're in trouble if you don't pay attention to defending set pieces.

2. Regen Attributes

Regens tend to get ridiculous set piece attributes. There was a point in my Lille save when 10+ players on my team had corner ratings over 15. Furthermore, during my 8th season or so nearly every team I played had a player in the first XI that was an expert corner taker. None of these scenarios are realistic.

My 2 cents.

[Caesarius]

If you don't change your approach when you play a team who plays defensively against you, don't blame the game if you can't win those matches. There is no 'issue' to 'hotfix' regarding this, apart from a human one.

AI big team vs AI small team still my fault uh?

Also, why you say Im not using a different aproach? I only stated "dont feel like playing defensive against poor teams".

Did you read the whole post or just being funny?

[Dagenham_Dave]

AI big team vs AI small team still my fault uh?

Also, why you say Im not using a different aproach? I only stated "dont feel like playing defensive against poor teams".

Did you read the whole post or just being funny?

You don't need to play 'defensive' against poor teams. You said that most of the time you play a weaker team, you lose. The vast majority of those occasions, that'll be down to how you've approached those games. It really is that simple, I'm afraid. Instead of burying your head in the sand and blaming the ME, you'll have a much more rewarding game experience if you take the time to learn how to approach playing agaiinst a team that plays very defensively against you.

That's my advice anyway, take it or leave it.

[WormboY]

REALLY SI team???? This sh*t with 14.2.1 returns...omfg

None of them are listed, but all offers are less than the real value.

[HUNT3R]

Heard of negotiating?

[WormboY]

If i'm not interested to sell, and if they are important players why other team give me half or something of their value?

Well, Barcelona wants Ribery, take 10M B. Munchen thats cool... trolololol

[Cougar2010]

REALLY SI team???? This sh*t with 14.2.1 returns...omfg

None of them are listed, but all offers are less than the real value.

Real value?

Their value is what people will pay for them or what you will sell them for, the value shown is an estimate based on their current contract, nothing more.

Do you set asking prices?

Do you negotiate? Do you reject the offers?

[Cougar2010]

If i'm not interested to sell, and if they are important players why other team give me half or something of their value?

Well, Barcelona wants Ribery, take 10M B. Munchen thats cool... trolololol

Other teams have made you an offer, if you aren't interested in selling you reject the offer, its fairly simple.

[HUNT3R]

If i'm not interested to sell, and if they are important players why other team give me half or something of their value?

I snipped the rest of your quote as it was pointless.

If you're not interested to sell, REJECT.

They're not giving you anything. They made an opening bid. From there you reject, negotiate or accept. It really is that simple.

[WormboY]

I snipped the rest of your quote as it was pointless.

If you're not interested to sell, REJECT.

They're not giving you anything. They made an opening bid. From there you reject, negotiate or accept. It really is that simple.

And if i'm open to sell, and thye still give me half or less of the "value" ?

Real value?

Their value is what people will pay for them or what you will sell them for, the value shown is an estimate based on their current contract, nothing more.

Do you set asking prices?

Do you negotiate? Do you reject the offers?

1. lol yes, if the value of that is 6M i'll not give 1M for a player, just that.

2. nop.

3. Yes. I made some stuff... one with more than the value and with same value (yeah, that stuff of point 1). And no one give that.

3.1. yes.

[HUNT3R]

And if i'm open to sell, and thye still give me half or less of the "value" ?

I'll say it again slowly... N E G O T I A T E.

http://www.thedugout.tv/community/showpost.php?p=4098632&postcount=21

[johnhughthom]

The value is only in the game as a guide, in real life there is no such thing as a player's actual value, unless you go down the route of how much his current contract is worth.

[WormboY]

I'll say it again slowly... N E G O T I A T E.

http://www.thedugout.tv/community/showpost.php?p=4098632&postcount=21

I'll say it again: and if they still give me ALL THE TIME half/less of the value??

Oh yeah, right...i already know your answer "accept or reject deal with it".

btw, tks for your feedback HUNT3R and Cougar.

[Cougar2010]

I'll say it again: and if they still give me ALL THE TIME half/less of the value??

Oh yeah, right...i already know your answer "accept or reject deal with it".

btw, tks for your feedback HUNT3R and Cougar.

Thats right, you accept it or reject it just like you do IRL.

Do you think you have a divine right to buy players for nothing and sell players for mega money?

[Dagenham_Dave]

Negotiating transfer deals in this game is a bit different to previous versions, and you need to be on the ball to get the best deals when buying and selling. Careful haggling can get the job done, but it can be a tricky process. Which is more realistic, I guess.

[WormboY]

yes, i have. tks

[WormboY]

Negotiating transfer deals in this game is a bit different to previous versions, and you need to be on the ball to get the best deals when buying and selling. Careful haggling can get the job done, but it can be a tricky process. Which is more realistic, I guess.

Tks for your feedback.

[hannahrr]

I'm still seeing players who are regular starters being on the bench for one game due to fitness issues, then immediately wanting to discuss not being a starter.

[jonashaglundasp83]

sacked. . well . three differnt games. and the tactics i used didnt work. and si says thhey didnt change anythong....

[Federico]

I think it has to do with the way the ME rewards small teams defending against bigger teams.

Seems like they just sit down and out of nothing they score a marvellous counter, while the bigger team keeps hitting their defensive wall without success.

In my save I manage a medium to small team and whenever I hit 2 or 3 straight good results and next match face an inferior team (even one 2 divisions below) I usually lose.

Keep knocking their defense knowing the inevitable will come sooner or later, and that is one lethal counter.

My only hope is score first on some corner, but sadly I lost most of those matches.

Guess the AI big teams are also suffering of this, and I personally think this issue cant be hotfixed cause it involves re-balancing the core ME in depth.

And I dont really feel like playing defensive against poor teams as a workaround just for that. I hardly believe 11 players like me could maintain a zero against a serious team as hard as we try.

If you don't change your approach when you play a team who plays defensively against you, don't blame the game if you can't win those matches. There is no 'issue' to 'hotfix' regarding this, apart from a human one.

After reading these two posts, it came in my mind something PaulC wrote some weeks ago.

So I started thinking it's the engine ruling over every tactic and not the opposite. At least the most of times. And if this is true it would explain many things, and would explain some frustration vented here by some users.

Dave you suggest to change approach. Ok, but let's figure out to play a big team. You are expected to dominate in the most of matches played versus smaller sides. How are you supposed to play? I'd suggest offensive and aggressive, so to score as soon as possible forcing the opponents to get out from their atomic shelter. This is not the only way though. There are matches where you need to be patient and work your opponents by the flanks.. but generally if its defence is weak, it is supposed to last 1 half maybe before collapsing. But what happens, the most of times, is seeing the big team storming their net, collecting corners after corners, with the ball bouncing everywhere but back of the net. You then concede 1 chance on counter, and they score. Maybe on corner kick.

Would you suggest to play slower, defensive and cautious? Not sure, I'm asking you. To me this is counter-productive.

If the intention was to improve AI counter for real, I'd say it was absolutely unecessary, and at this point pretty detrimental.

[RTHerringbone]

sacked. wt ffffff. well . three differnt games. and the tactics i used didnt work. and si says thhey didnt change anythong.

Nothing changed, you just haven't figured out why your form took a dip. Get over it and quit with the (snipped) bad language.

[HUNT3R]

After reading these two posts, it came in my mind something PaulC wrote some weeks ago.

So I started thinking it's the engine ruling over every tactic and not the opposite. At least the most of times. And if this is true it would explain many things, and would explain some frustration vented here by some users.

What Paul meant, was that users were already moaning about losing games even though they were "dominating". With counter-attacking improved even more, he feared that there would be more moaning. Seems he was right.

[Domoboy23]

Even players with 15+ decisions and teamwork, seem to shoot at goal from an impossible angle, when there's 3 team-mates stacking up unmarked in the 6 yeard box

[Federico]

What Paul meant, was that users were already moaning about losing games even though they were "dominating". With counter-attacking improved even more, he feared that there would be more moaning. Seems he was right.

Absolutely, but that was not the point

Do you think that improvement was really needed? In my save, Cardiff is passing through the CL first round, season 2017-2018 playing 4 Ds, 2DMs, 1ML 1MR, 2ST.

[HUNT3R]

Absolutely, but that was not the point

Do you think that improvement was really needed? In my save, Cardiff is passing through the CL first round, season 2017-2018 playing 4 Ds, 2DMs, 1ML 1MR, 2ST.

Improvements are always needed as the ME will never be perfect

Attacking play - runs and creativity - needs to be improved too. It's not at the level I want, yet.

[Cougar2010]

Absolutely, but that was not the point

Do you think that improvement was really needed? In my save, Cardiff is passing through the CL first round, season 2017-2018 playing 4 Ds, 2DMs, 1ML 1MR, 2ST.

Thats not really our decision as we don't have all the details to hand. If Paul & SI believe the changes are needed to improve the ME I trust them.

As for your formation back in FM10 or was it FM11 I saw a mediocre Inter Milan switch to that formation in around 2018 which invigorated their team and gave them a new spell of success until other teams found a way to counter them so its nothing new.

The users that are complaining are those that think hammering the opposition with a battering ram is the way to win games. They are getting similar results to what we see IRL when it happens but the difference IRL is managers learn quicker, adapt faster and work more on unlocking a defence rather than using the battering ram.

Until those users learn how to unlock defences they'll continue to suffer and blame everyone except themselves.

[Caesarius]

What Paul meant, was that users were already moaning about losing games even though they were "dominating". With counter-attacking improved even more, he feared that there would be more moaning. Seems he was right.

The point is its not only affecting gamers, which sooner or later will adapt their style of play or tweak it to (sadly) beat the ME, but it also hurts big teams managed by AI making it unrealistic.

In fact my previous post was regarding someone who wrote about big teams failing bad.

And it is very noticeable keeping an eye on those cups that mixes teams from lower leagues with big ones, like FA cup, Italia cup, etc.

[HUNT3R]

but it also hurts big teams managed by AI making it unrealistic.

It's not as simple as that. Not all big teams are failing, so it might not be the ME at all. It might be other factors or other factors + the ME. It's a tricky problem.

[Federico]

Of course an ME has the improved. But I can't really see the reason AI counter has to be improved for.

And I can't see how a team like Cardiff could achieve that much. Or like Celtic that reached CL semi-finals during the season 2015/2016, with all respect for these teams (Celtic especially!). You can't compare these sides to Inter Milan my friend

I don't think it's easy to build up a tactic able to hammer your opponents. Actually matches IRL are more balanced and even smaller teams before scoring on counter, because this happens of course, usually ring at your doorbell a couple of times at least. Defensive and Counter strategies are rewarding way too much in my opinion.

You all keep saying "you need to work your tactic to unlock those defence". I actually do that, I switch tactic and strategy, duties and roles very often and not randomly. I'm not a master maybe but I have a little knowledge of football having played it (the real one I mean) and a bit of experience with this game too. I'm achieving so I can't consider myself a sad loser blaming the game for me to be unsuccessful. But in my opinion there are several things that should be totally re-worked, like goalkeeper routines, man marking on set pieces, finishing and passing accuracy. Nothing related to tactics I'm afraid.

[obinna]

Even players with 15+ decisions and teamwork, seem to shoot at goal from an impossible angle, when there's 3 team-mates stacking up unmarked in the 6 yeard box

I think people tend to look at attributes in a black hole. It's way too simplistic to say "My player has X rating and he didn't do this" or "My team has X amount of World Class players so why didn't they score with X amount of chances." I look at attributes as relative and conditional. A player with 18 decisons and a low consistency and big match rating is probably performs worse than a player with 15 passing and a high consistency and big match ratings. IMO the only significance of ratings is to compare players, not to predict how often they finish chances, complete passes or make the right decision.

[Ifail]

Real value?

Their value is what people will pay for them or what you will sell them for, the value shown is an estimate based on their current contract, nothing more.

Do you set asking prices?

Do you negotiate? Do you reject the offers?

MOSt of the time if you negotiate that offer to a lightly better price THEY witdraw the negotiation was good prior to 14.2 patch now all of it is just yes or no for the AI

[HUNT3R]

MOSt of the time if you negotiate that offer to a lightly better price THEY witdraw the negotiation was good prior to 14.2 patch now all of it is just yes or no for the AI

I've had players where I'd get offers for way below their value. I'd negotiate and sometimes they withdrew, but other times I got improved offers. Eventually, after a bit of negotiating, I was able to sell some of my players for quite a lot above their value.

Edit: This was done on 14.2.

[jonashaglundasp83]

i have to questions

1why isnt possible to take away 14.2. a play 14.1.4?

do u have a date for next update?

[CityAndColour]

Having people playing on different updates would make it much harder to pinpoint issues and review bug reports.

[toffscott]

one problem for me is the amount of free kicks that hit the bar, out of say 50 free kicks 30 of them hit the woodwork with Leighton Baines it was getting ridiculas.

[jam jameson]

Neither of which are issues for me.

What goalkeeper distribution setting are you using?

Which defenders can't pass, and why?

Hi RTH, I Always read your posts since i think they're quite balanced and useful; since you're a 'defender' of the 14.2.0 ME, please give me an advice: the updated ME is better than the 14.1.4 one? In your opinion may i update or better to wait the next fix? the main issues raised in the thread (gk, corners and own goals), have you experienced such kind of problems?

[jonashaglundasp83]

yeah but we can still play when u do a update like this. when is the date for the new one.

[RTHerringbone]

Hi RTH, I Always read your posts since i think they're quite balanced and useful; since you're a 'defender' of the 14.2.0 ME, please give me an advice: the updated ME is better than the 14.1.4 one? In your opinion may i update or better to wait the next fix? the main issues raised in the thread (gk, corners and own goals), have you experienced such kind of problems?

I updated and didn't regret it.

The reality is that the issues you mention exist, but some are less frequent than others, and some can be avoided.

Goalkeepers do some funky stuff, but it isn't, for me, regular enough to be an issue.

Goalkeeping distribution issues are avoided by playing short to defenders, and not to a specific player.

Corners are problematical from an attacking and defensive perspective, and again can be worked around.

Offensively, aim at Penalty Area and you'll see a huge reduction in corners played straight out of play.

Defensively, get someone marking the six yard box, and you immediately concede fewer.

Own goals were never, and have never, been an issue for me.

[Caesarius]

...

Offensively, aim at Penalty Area and you'll see a huge reduction in corners played straight out of play.

....

Lemme add my number one rule, shooter strong foot must be inverted. ex: Left footed kick right side corners.

Like this one =)

[video=youtube_share;JmJB2CWP6_k]http://youtu.be/JmJB2CWP6_k

[balldoktor81]

WTF is going on with tactics familiarity....????? just changed one shout (hass. opp.), basicly removed it for one match before starting it. now after match is finished i had to realise it would be better to go back and added mentioned shout, and all of a sudden my dudes don't know what closing down is (back to akward, really akward).... seriously SI????? WTF!!! beside that ME is pretty solid, not perfect but ok. it's your tactics doesn't work here guys

[mhaffy]

Just finished first season managing Chelsea, having won league (predicted 2nd) and the FA Cup. Just been looking at Board Confidence and was somewhat surprised to see English Premier League and FA Cup performances only rated at 90%. Board expected me to challenge for title, but having won it, they only give you 90%. They expected me to reach FA Cup Final - achieved and won, yet still only 90%. Somewhat surprised that over achievement against board expectations only results in 90%.......

Also looked at Premier League Season Preview which showed that I was expected to finsih second but my odds were........... 50-1!!! A bug, surely......

[wackiewim]

I played Belgian Pro League with club Bruges. At the start of play offs I was 18 points behind Anderlecht and in 4 th position. Halving points I was 9 behind and I got 23 points out of 30 becoming champions. Anderlecht wasnt able to kick a ball anymore and only won 1 out of 10 games ( would be nice this happens in real life pls). I played counter strategy and very rigid whole season. At start of playoff numbers 4 (me) 5 and 6 were long shots, at the end the gap was almost closer for all teams. It all converted in points. Oh yes and I won the Cup as well.

Nevertheless the game is not realistic anymore IMO. Its not enjoyable and counter play is more effective then playing the natural style of the particular team and players. Bad form and morale are lingering dangers and its toomuch overtaking the natural skills of teams players.

[Caesarius]

Nevertheless the game is not realistic anymore IMO. Its not enjoyable and counter play is more effective then playing the natural style of the particular team and players. Bad form and morale are lingering dangers and its toomuch overtaking the natural skills of teams players.

I second that.

[imabearlol]

[video=youtube;UlpZn36CYRY]

So with all the doom and gloom around here I recorded some clips from my last game as I got some nice goals resulting from passing moves while trying out a new tactic. Last one was offside but it was nice so I included it.

Apologies for the quality, I can't upload direct to youtube as it won't let me sign in my account, hopefully you can still see what's going on. This is in the current ME and goes to show you can still create nice flowing moves.

[Domoboy23]

My only complaint with the ME atm is animation based. Shooting looks awful. The same animation for each shot, whether it's placed or powerful (not seen any side-foot curls like on FM13.) Also, it looks like the players are shooting with the opposite foot to which they should be given the situation.

[Federico]

Well, my save now turned into a "who's-able-to-score-more-from-free-kicks-or-corner-kicks contest" with no way to stop conceding this stuff. Not really funny. Hands up for me, I couldn't ever imagine to see something worse than FM13.