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4-1-3-2: Winning games, but rarely possession


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Hello tacticians, anyone care to help me understand my Inter save a bit?

A few words on my background. Been playing CM/FM since the late 90's. Always enjoyed it despite never achieving much (winning the CL with an average pre-Magath Wolfsburg side is my biggest claim to fame). But in FM12, something clicked. Won several league titles with Spurs and managed three promotions in four seasons with Charlton, QPR and Newcastle, all while playing pretty basic 4-4-2/4-4-1-1 formations.

Tactically, I'm more of a Redknapp guy ("play where you want!", "just f**king run around!") than someone like Bielsa or Pep. This obviously worked great in FM12 - but not so much in FM14. I've been trying quite a few teams in FM14, often neglecting the tactical side I guess, and failing badly. So I've decided to change aproach. In this save, results aren't the highest priority (though I would love to take a CL spot), instead the goal is to really understand what's happening and why.

When setting up my tactics, I'm quite pragmatic. Getting the most out of what's avaible is more important than imposing a certain style. Looking at Inter's squad we have a strong core of central players but is really lacking on the flanks, where all width must come from the full backs. I contemplated going with a back three but felt it was best to keep it simple, so decided on a 4-1-3-2. The idea is to keep the ball, give the CM's freedom to dictate play at their own will, use rampaging wing backs to get width with Cambiasso providing cover and finally Palacio dropping deep to find space and mess with his CD. The only player instructions is for GK to pass it shorter + distribute to defenders and for F9 to shoot less often.

4rkm.jpg

The results have been fine so far. Most of all I'm delighted with our defending, which has often been a problem for me. Unfortunately, it's not great football that has won us matches, but doing it like Stoke. We've scored five corners, three free kicks and several of our goals from open play has occured like this: short throw in > pass > cross into box > goal. The beast of Ranocchia is in second place in the scoring charts for Serie A, only behind Llorente. We're getting shots on goal, both long shots and inside the box, but struggling to create CCCs (6 in 7 games).

But what's really driving me crazy is how we constantly loses the battle for possession, despite playing mostly inferior sides. Now, possession is not an end goal for me, I'd take three points over possession every time - the problem is that I can't understand WHY this is happening (which as I mentionted was the primary goal in this save). Here are the results so far (our stats first):

1-1 vs Udinese (A), [49 vs 51% possession, 14-15 shots on goal]

4-0 vs Cagliari (H), [54 vs 46%, 23-5]

2-1 vs Sassuolo (A), [42 vs 58%, 10-5]

3-0 vs Verona (H), [44 vs 56%, 17-5]

1-0 vs Genoa (A), [48 vs 52%, 20-9]

0-1 vs Lazio (H), [41 vs 59%, 9-10]

3-0 vs Bologna (H), [53 vs 47%, 19-10]

Our pass completion rate is normally between 80-83%, but the only times we've seen more of the ball is at home against weaker sides - that've got a man sent off! (Happened to both Cagliari and Bologna). Even when playing against 10 men, we are hardly bossing it.

For example, here are the heat maps from the first half against Lazio.

73v5.jpg

We're playing at home, we have a clear numerical advantage in the middle of the park, while staggering our lines and (in theory) creating ample opportunities for passing triangles. They are playing a flat back four and a striker looking really isolated. Still they had 64% of the ball in that half! Despite that we won the shots 8 vs 4 and got fouled 8 times vs 3 fouls conceded. I just can't make any sense of it. Any suggestions?

I've putten the game on pause for now, since our next match is away at Juve and I'm afraid we'll get absolutely torn to pieces.

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Team instructions? Fluidity? Having a numerical advantage doesn't mean you'll necessarily have possession. You could ask your team to drop deeper, stand off opponents, use easier tackling and get ball forward really fast and your team might have low possession and still be solid while defending and attacking quickly with a long ball. It's not all about the tactic of course.

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I use a 4132 - with very different midfield set-up and always dominate possession. Join the discussion in this thread

Thanks for the link, will have a read!

Team instructions? Fluidity?

It's in the first screenshot, no? Mentality: standard, fluidity: fluid, team instructions: shorter passing.

Having a numerical advantage doesn't mean you'll necessarily have possession.

Nope, not necessarily. But with 4 central midfielders against 2 or 3 that's usually technically inferior, it should at least happen sometimes. Unless our players are complacent/uninterested/upset which I haven't seen any traces of. Or the tactic is flawed - which it might be, but I cannot figure out how or why.

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So, two more games played. Juve away was an inevitable defeat, despite them losing Lichsteiner to a red card after 15 minutes. They moved Pirlo to the right wing back position, played 3-2-2-2 and controlled the game: 64% possession with ten men. Goals from a penalty and a long throw that would've made Delap proud. We didn't threaten at all.

After that I figured that maybe we're too passive in midfield and just letting the opponents move it around. So for the next game, Catania at home, I added hassle opponents to the team instructions. Did it work? Not at all, if anything we got worse. This is how the first 25 minutes played out. With a standard 4-2-3-1 they are pushing us waaay deep back. And whilst our passing is all over the map, they seem to pass the ball with considerable ease in our half, with us unable to win it back. According to my assman, we have the league's best midfield in tackling, teamwork and decisions, and the fourth best passers.

8puv.jpg

gjna.jpg

After 25 minutes, they got a man sent off (that's the fourth red card going our way in nine league games!) and fell apart completly. On a side note, unrelated to my tactics, their behaviour one man down was really strange. They pushed men forward, played with one CD and gave us unbelievable spaces to counter. 2-0 down they shored up things, but a bit late by that.

I'm happy enough with our results so far, but I don't feel any closer to understand why the matches plays out like they do. Disappointing, really.

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Hay Mate - Im playing around with my thinking using a 4132, i have made a fantastic FM12 system which im in the process of trying to transfer over to FM14.

If "all" you want is higher possession, then pass out of Def, work into box and play slower, less risky passes etc etc etc... The most obvious one you need to use is retain position. a must for this formation i think, it allows the attackers and CMs to move in to space etc. Im of the opinion that anything around 50/50 possession is good enough if you create more good scoring chances than the opponent.

Please fell free to add your findings questions to the 4132 thread

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DaBossa - in the other thread you've mentioned using an Attacking mentality. That's not conducive to a possession-heavy tactic. The instructions you give here, which I use, is more compatible with Defensive or Counter strategies. It needs stressing that 'Defensive' does NOT mean not attacking - I get plenty of goals using it.

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Your passing % is high so maybe the problem is that you are not winning it back soon enough from the opposition.

Where are the opposition making all of their passes? In your half of the field or between their defensive players mainly? Can you post some screenshots of their passes against you?

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DaBossa - in the other thread you've mentioned using an Attacking mentality. That's not conducive to a possession-heavy tactic. The instructions you give here, which I use, is more compatible with Defensive or Counter strategies. It needs stressing that 'Defensive' does NOT mean not attacking - I get plenty of goals using it.

I said "Try" an attacking mentality - to get a higher D-Line and pressing by default. (it was a question/idea).

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