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Neil Brock

Football Manager 14 Feedback Thread - 14.1.4

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Nice.

Still have eight league matches to go, plus potentially the playoffs, to really set a strong new record.

I also set the record for worst discipline in the FA Trophy (11 yellows and 3 reds) and still have the final to play there.

We are now like Wimbledon on speed.

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I tried going back to 13 but I couldn't get on with the sliders. So instead I'm putting up with ludicrous lobbed goals and awful wing play. This game needs an update. Fast.

Rather sitting in this thread, why not go back to your tactics thread. A lot of people are giving you some good advice there. You might find you can minimise your suffering by taking some of it on board.

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Rather sitting in this thread, why not go back to your tactics thread. A lot of people are giving you some good advice there. You might find you can minimise your suffering by taking some of it on board.

I'm not playing that save atm.

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I dont know about anyone else, but dribbling stat seems to be underpowered for me at least. When player attempt to dribble, regardless of whether they have great dribbling or not, they seem to mostly fail. Granted, dribbling succcess percentage in real life is not high but these player with 18+ dribbling simply arent very good at dribbling.

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I'm not playing that save atm.

You can still learn from the discussion. Whilst I appreciate the work you put into finding bugs, you continuously cut off your nose to spite your face in terms of working out how you might better enjoy FM

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For some reason FM won't accept my YouTube account so I have to show this in the form of screenshots. One of the infamous lob goals that are making me tear my hair out.

47d4.png

I don't have hassle opponents as a team instruction and I don't instruct my defenders to close down. Yet time and time again this happens. Two of my defenders bunch up and closing down one guy. Look at the shape of the back four. That really shouldn't be happening at all.

c5ya.png

Something I'm seeing loads on this. Keeper runs out. Doesn't make himself big, doesn't try and make the goal small. Just runs out, hands by his side.

l6h4.png

Ah yes. The lob. I haven't seen one of those since the last match! I don't know why they always pick the lob considering the goalkeeper leaves gaping holes either side of him. Does he know he can use his hands?

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Oh look, I've just equalised with.... A LOB!

hxt2.png

Giroud is one on one with the defender here, all looks ok. Wait a minute! Why is the keeper so far off of his line?

vwnd.png

Giroud spots him off his line and fancies chipping him. Keeper has sort of noticed the danger, but doesn't seem in a hurry to get back on his line

u3d7.png

I don't even know what the keeper is doing here. Is he trying to dive away from the goal?

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Aaaaaaand I can't even upload the pkm due to this

0odp.jpg

Wonderful. I'm really enjoying this. Lots of fun.

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Finally got around to playing a few LLM with the new version. To be honest, after my initial feeling was more positive, I now have to say that I still find it pretty underwhelming.

Just watch full matches at something like Skrill S/N and the bugs fly at you. Here are some of the lowlights:

- often, when my target man gets fouled, he gets a free kick against him for offside instead (and no, he is not moving from an offside position, I've checked a number of times);

- at times, free kicks get taken at a completely different place from where the foul has been committed;

- goalkeepers tend to take too many freekicks outside their area. Pretty annoying when your goalie takes one at your corner flag (that has cost me a goal). At least give the option (PI) to turn this off;

- rebounds are handled badly. Often, instead of shooting, the player just waits until the keeper can recover and take the ball from his feet;

- there's a spot on the side of the opponent's penalty area where freekicks seem to get taken short all the time instead of crossed into the box.

- wingers don't cross when they have space, instead they wait for the defenders to close them down;

- forwards tend to be too passive on crosses, they seldom challenge the defenders;

- still lots of very strange decisions, like when a midfielder, without being challenged, just turns to the sideline and hoofs the ball into the stands.

- injuries seem to be a problem, I had 2 of my 3 strikers injured in one match (one of them after 7 seconds!). Got another striker on loan, he scored then got injured in his first match. Brought in another striker on a non contract. Now I got 2 injuries in one match again. That is all within the first 10 competitive games of the season.

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Finally got around to playing a few LLM with the new version. To be honest, after my initial feeling was more positive, I now have to say that I still find it pretty underwhelming.

Just watch full matches at something like Skrill S/N and the bugs fly at you. Here are some of the lowlights:

- often, when my target man gets fouled, he gets a free kick against him for offside instead (and no, he is not moving from an offside position, I've checked a number of times);

- at times, free kicks get taken at a completely different place from where the foul has been committed;

- goalkeepers tend to take too many freekicks outside their area. Pretty annoying when your goalie takes one at your corner flag (that has cost me a goal). At least give the option (PI) to turn this off;

- rebounds are handled badly. Often, instead of shooting, the player just waits until the keeper can recover and take the ball from his feet;

- there's a spot on the side of the opponent's penalty area where freekicks seem to get taken short all the time instead of crossed into the box.

- wingers don't cross when they have space, instead they wait for the defenders to close them down;

- forwards tend to be too passive on crosses, they seldom challenge the defenders;

- still lots of very strange decisions, like when a midfielder, without being challenged, just turns to the sideline and hoofs the ball into the stands.

- injuries seem to be a problem, I had 2 of my 3 strikers injured in one match (one of them after 7 seconds!). Got another striker on loan, he scored then got injured in his first match. Brought in another striker on a non contract. Now I got 2 injuries in one match again. That is all within the first 10 competitive games of the season.

I'm managing in Skrill North and am not seeing any of this. Dare I suggest "It's your tactics". I don't mean that facetiously; my 2.1.3 tactics have proved problematic with 2.1.4 - my results have plummeted so I've had to start with a new formation and new tactics which will take the rest of the season for the squad to become fluid in, thus probably costing me promotion. I'm not complaining though - I just need to be patient.

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It's been an issue forever of course that AI managers can't develop players as well as human players, but I'd like to point out that I've just loaned Douglas Costa and Frank Ribery - apparently when you loan players they come into your team with their training schedule carried over from their previous club so I could see the brilliance of AI training myself.

Douglas Costa, AMR - training set to Tackling

Frank Ribery, AML - training set to learn new position - CDM

Seriously? No wonder AI can develop one good regen in 10 years.

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Probably pointless posting this as i'm sure there will be the usual excuses, but what is going on with the straight red card within the first 20 minutes of a match with the flying leap all about?

We are 17th in the yellow card stats, one of the least in the whole division and 7th in the red card stats with 4 red cards. all straight red cards within the first 20 minutes of a match.

I have no tackle harder or get stuck in instructions, even if i had, what are the odds that we'd collect all our red cards in this fashion?

Very poor.

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I'm definitely enjoying the game post-update. Defending is better, I have also been tweaking my tactics, I'm playing in Skrill Premier, so that has helped me with a few defensive problems I was having. The main issues I am having now is red cards, my MCL has been sent off four times in half a season (three different players I should point out) they are BWM-Defendwith no def instructions other than my team instructions Rigid/Standard stay on feet. And these aren't my only red cards, it would also be useful if when I fine players for 2nd red card of season 1 wks wages and they say it's unfair if I had a reply like "I'll stop fining you if you stop getting sent off". Also ratings are still a bit low for Limited Full-backs but much improved. From kick-offs I am seeing a lot of pass-pass-lump it 60 yards forward out of play for opponent throw-in. But I would like to reiterate that I am very pleased with the improvements in the update. Thanks.

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Chester will beat that in real life, they have 6 red cards through just 21 matches in that division!

103 yellows and 11 reds is the new mark Chester have to beat.

A record I don't think will be beaten however is the 27 matches my captain has been suspended for in a single season, comprising of 11 yellows and six red cards. Quite a jump from his four yellows and no reds last season in the same role!

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Will also post this here (opened a thread in bugs section)

In FM14 coaches no longer provide reports on loaned out players. What I always did - send my promising youngster on loan, then click 'get match reports' and assign a coach to do this. I got the needed reports and I didn't have to waste my 20/20 scouts on these assignments. In FM14 however if you assign a coach (you can still do it and there's still a status 'being scouted by manager' so it hasn't been removed by the devs intentionally?) you won't ever get any match reports of your players.

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I'm managing in Skrill North and am not seeing any of this. Dare I suggest "It's your tactics". I don't mean that facetiously; my 2.1.3 tactics have proved problematic with 2.1.4 - my results have plummeted so I've had to start with a new formation and new tactics which will take the rest of the season for the squad to become fluid in, thus probably costing me promotion. I'm not complaining though - I just need to be patient.

Ah, here we go again. I definitely do not claim that my tactics are perfect, far from. But I'm not doing bad, currently lying 3nd in TSS with Tonbridge, thank you. So no, this is not a 'I do not get results' rant. But please indicate which of the points you do feel may be due to tactics - and which not.

Many of the things I encountered happened to both me and the AI. Also some of the points, like the incorrect free kick spots, are obviously totally unrelated to tactics. Unless you claim that the referee looks at my tactics and decides to choose the free kick spot based on that.

In a way you may have a point. It seems that some of the bugs become more prevalent with certain tactics and/or player characteristics. For instance, the problem that a player gets an offside decision against him when he is being fouled. I have yet only seen this with the target man (attack) position. Possibly because of the way the player positions himself the bug happens a lot.

Actually this would explain the vastly different experience of players with the ME. It is not that a tactic is bad per se, but that it brings out the bad in the ME.

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Probably explains why it would be so incredibly hard to code a balanced ME too, when you think of it like that.

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Rather sitting in this thread, why not go back to your tactics thread. A lot of people are giving you some good advice there. You might find you can minimise your suffering by taking some of it on board.

Can you confirm if there and issues with crosses and more speciafically long shots being scored. As I want to know if it's my tactics or not.

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Can you confirm if there and issues with crosses and more speciafically long shots being scored. As I want to know if it's my tactics or not.

Does this relate to your tactic in the Pairs and Combinations thread?

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/375632-Pairs-amp-Combinations-The-Complete-Series?p=9254899&viewfull=1#post9254899

What specifically are the issues you see with crosses and long shots? Too many, not enough.....?

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Finally got around to playing a few LLM with the new version. To be honest, after my initial feeling was more positive, I now have to say that I still find it pretty underwhelming.

Just watch full matches at something like Skrill S/N and the bugs fly at you. Here are some of the lowlights:

- often, when my target man gets fouled, he gets a free kick against him for offside instead (and no, he is not moving from an offside position, I've checked a number of times);

- at times, free kicks get taken at a completely different place from where the foul has been committed;

- goalkeepers tend to take too many freekicks outside their area. Pretty annoying when your goalie takes one at your corner flag (that has cost me a goal). At least give the option (PI) to turn this off;

- rebounds are handled badly. Often, instead of shooting, the player just waits until the keeper can recover and take the ball from his feet;

- there's a spot on the side of the opponent's penalty area where freekicks seem to get taken short all the time instead of crossed into the box.

- wingers don't cross when they have space, instead they wait for the defenders to close them down;

- forwards tend to be too passive on crosses, they seldom challenge the defenders;

- still lots of very strange decisions, like when a midfielder, without being challenged, just turns to the sideline and hoofs the ball into the stands.

- injuries seem to be a problem, I had 2 of my 3 strikers injured in one match (one of them after 7 seconds!). Got another striker on loan, he scored then got injured in his first match. Brought in another striker on a non contract. Now I got 2 injuries in one match again. That is all within the first 10 competitive games of the season.

Have seen all of this while managing in Northern Ireland as well, apart from the injuries.

Regarding goalkeepers; for me it looks like there's an area inside the 16m line, towards the sides, where the goalie flat out refuses to take the ball with his hands.

It's like he's treating it as it was outside the box, hoofing it upfield instead of just casually picking it up with his hands.

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My general feeling after the update ist that:

-> def works much better

-> golies look sometimes unbeatable

-> cheap shot (lob) over golie -> 100% miss :(

-> to many woodwork shoots

-> strikers tend to miss 100% chances a lot... (no, not fault of my players)

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Does this relate to your tactic in the Pairs and Combinations thread?

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/375632-Pairs-amp-Combinations-The-Complete-Series?p=9254899&viewfull=1#post9254899

What specifically are the issues you see with crosses and long shots? Too many, not enough.....?

It does, my problem isn't the amount of long shots it's the fact none go in. I've tried several formations and styles and despite copius amounts of shots they all get saved or missed. Crosses are occasionally scored with the feet but very very rarely with the head.

My set has changed slightly since that post.

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I haven't seen a headed goal from a cross (that's not a set piece) in ages. I've seen plenty of headers, they just always go over the bar.

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It's been an issue forever of course that AI managers can't develop players as well as human players, but I'd like to point out that I've just loaned Douglas Costa and Frank Ribery - apparently when you loan players they come into your team with their training schedule carried over from their previous club so I could see the brilliance of AI training myself.Douglas Costa, AMR - training set to TacklingFrank Ribery, AML - training set to learn new position - CDMSeriously? No wonder AI can develop one good regen in 10 years.
Just a thought, but what are Riberys mental stats like, I'd bet he'd be a decent DLP or Regista.I know AI squad development isn't great, but that could be a clever one

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It's been an issue forever of course that AI managers can't develop players as well as human players, but I'd like to point out that I've just loaned Douglas Costa and Frank Ribery - apparently when you loan players they come into your team with their training schedule carried over from their previous club so I could see the brilliance of AI training myself.

Douglas Costa, AMR - training set to Tackling

Frank Ribery, AML - training set to learn new position - CDM

Seriously? No wonder AI can develop one good regen in 10 years.

Thats strange, no players i take in on loan have training schedules set up already. Ill need to keep an eye on that.

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It does, my problem isn't the amount of long shots it's the fact none go in. I've tried several formations and styles and despite copius amounts of shots they all get saved or missed. Crosses are occasionally scored with the feet but very very rarely with the head.

My set has changed slightly since that post.

Long shots don't seem to be an issue for me, but I'd agree that converted headers seem few and far between.

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Long shots don't seem to be an issue for me, but I'd agree that converted headers seem few and far between.

This is not just me moaning but I genuinely see about 3 long shots go in per season (thats me and the op). I see plenty of attempts but its just mind numbingly boring to watch, pot shot after pot shot with no prospect of scoring. I wouldn't mind but I have world class long shot attributes on many of my players. Do you train players in certain ppms? I have 4 or 5 mates also playing the game and they also concurn about no long shots going in.

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Yeah just re-playing my Benfica CL game that crashed. Giroud has missed 3 close range headers due to the fact that no one heads downwards on this game. Then he does this.

vqzr.png

Another chip/lob. Keeper comes rushing out again for no real reason. 3 minutes before Benfica nearly did the exact same thing to me, but they just skimmed the bar.

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Surely by now you know that you should just be uploading PKM's in your threads? Why the constant posts about the same things over and over?

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Surely by now you know that you should just be uploading PKM's in your threads? Why the constant posts about the same things over and over?

It's a feedback thread, he's feeding info back.

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Because RTHerringbone wanted to see these lob goals. And I couldn't provide a pkm of of the last lot of lobbed goals because the game crashed.

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Yeah just re-playing my Benfica CL game that crashed. Giroud has missed 3 close range headers due to the fact that no one heads downwards on this game. Then he does this.

The heading is indeed a huge problem. I have yet to see a header from open play saved by the keeper, let alone a goal scored from such a header. That is both from me and the AI.

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This is not just me moaning but I genuinely see about 3 long shots go in per season (thats me and the op). I see plenty of attempts but its just mind numbingly boring to watch, pot shot after pot shot with no prospect of scoring. I wouldn't mind but I have world class long shot attributes on many of my players. Do you train players in certain ppms? I have 4 or 5 mates also playing the game and they also concurn about no long shots going in.

I can't quantify exactly how many long shots I score as I'm at work, but I suspect it's around one every five or six games.

I don't train any specific PPMs (I'm using FMC at the moment so don't have that option).

The Long Shot attribute in isolation doesn't equate to a guaranteed goal; what are their other attributes, such as Composure, Creativity, Technique, Decisions etc.?

Even with excellent attributes, they still need to right supply to convert a chance, and help from team mates to create gaps in the opposition defence through which to shoot.

As ever, there are several permutations.

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Actually, thinking about it I remember Walcott scoring a header from open play at the start of the season. Headed it into the roof of the net. Maybe the smaller the player, the more likely they will score a header due to players not heading down?

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Because RTHerringbone wanted to see these lob goals. And I couldn't provide a pkm of of the last lot of lobbed goals because the game crashed.

In that Giroud example, would you expect him to play the ball out to the right?

I'm not sure what his Creativity, Decisions and Technique attributes are, but is there a case that he is a blinkered striker, and that when he has the goal in his sights, he gets a bit of tunnel vision?

In that circumstance, it doesn't seem like a bad decision - keeper is off his line and he has a yard or two of space.

EDIT - the issue appears to be due to keepers coming off the line in your examples. The decision to lob seems appropriate in my opinion, based on looking at static screenshots.

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I can't quantify exactly how many long shots I score as I'm at work, but I suspect it's around one every five or six games.

I don't train any specific PPMs (I'm using FMC at the moment so don't have that option).

The Long Shot attribute in isolation doesn't equate to a guaranteed goal; what are their other attributes, such as Composure, Creativity, Technique, Decisions etc.?

Even with excellent attributes, they still need to right supply to convert a chance, and help from team mates to create gaps in the opposition defence through which to shoot.

As ever, there are several permutations.

My players have all those characterists. They don't score from long shots neither does the op. Is there a place were I can find a long shot goals stat?

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may i know what's the difference between "flair&creativity" in the attribute

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My players have all those characterists. They don't score from long shots neither does the op. Is there a place were I can find a long shot goals stat?

If you're in Simulation Mode, you can see a breakdown of the goals you have scored and conceded (and indeed the assist locations).

Can't remember where it is as I've used FMC for a month, but it's probably somewhere under Team Stats.

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The heading is indeed a huge problem. I have yet to see a header from open play saved by the keeper, let alone a goal scored from such a header. That is both from me and the AI.

Same problem with fm13 as well. Can't believe it's not been fixed yet.

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If you're in Simulation Mode, you can see a breakdown of the goals you have scored and conceded (and indeed the assist locations).

Can't remember where it is as I've used FMC for a month, but it's probably somewhere under Team Stats.

Team Report -> Goals tab actually. (RT - you will see a little snapshot of this in next opposition scout report items before a game)

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may i know what's the difference between "flair&creativity" in the attribute

Creativity is the ability to see an opportunity (or opportunities).

Flair is how likely a player is to do something unexpected.

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In that Giroud example, would you expect him to play the ball out to the right?

I'm not sure what his Creativity, Decisions and Technique attributes are, but is there a case that he is a blinkered striker, and that when he has the goal in his sights, he gets a bit of tunnel vision?

In that circumstance, it doesn't seem like a bad decision - keeper is off his line and he has a yard or two of space.

EDIT - the issue appears to be due to keepers coming off the line in your examples. The decision to lob seems appropriate in my opinion, based on looking at static screenshots.

Giroud's decent. I think 13 for creativity, 14 for decision making and maybe 14 for technique. It's not that though, I don't think it's a striker thing, it's all to do with the defence needlessly stepping up and often closing down the same man and goalkeepers being too eager to come off of their line. For me, it's a defensive issue/bug not an attacking one

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It's not that though, I don't think it's a striker thing, it's all to do with the defence needlessly stepping up and often closing down the same man and goalkeepers being too eager to come off of their line. For me, it's a defensive issue/bug not an attacking one

I'd agree that from the images you've posted, that the lobbing is a symptom of apparent poor defensive decision making.

The convergence of two DCs to a striker seems bugged, especially if you have no Team Instructions, Player Instructions or PPMs that would prompt this.

The decision of the keeper to step out may be related to the way his defenders have stepped up, but this too appears to be an issue.

Whilst it will be of zero consolation to you, I really don't get this with my two saves to the extent that you appear to, and that just baffles me.

EDIT - Is there any way you can be tempted to start a new tactical thread in the tactics forum to show your exact setup, so people can try to understand what may cause this?

It would be interesting to see a breakdown of your goals scored and conceded too, as you have implied that this is a regular occurrence.

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