Pairs & Combinations FM2015 - UPDATED

[redmark]

I'm not sure I perfectly know when and how to exploit opponents weaknesses but i try to.The most problems i've had were games like against Parma or Udinese who were dominated for about 30 minutes and then changed their formations to 5 defenders and packed midfield and tried to counter.As a result i couldn't get any chances at all although the quality of game remained the same.Should i play wider against "parked bus"? with the higher tempo to try to unsettle them? Any tips would be appreciated.

Try and envisage what an instruction means, in terms of a packed defence.

Higher tempo can take advantage of space, before a defence gets organised. However - if that defence starts organised and packed, higher tempo isn't going to be advantageous. If anything, 'hurrying' your attacking lowers your pass accuracy, in an area which is already lacking space. It's counter productive.

To get through a packed defence, you could work openings - patient, probing passing. Work Ball Into Box, Shorter Passing, Retain Possession.

Alternatively, depending on your players, you could ignore the packed defence - and shoot from distance, at any opportunity. Shoot On Sight.

Again, as llama says, you could Run At Defence - individual players taking on an opponent in a one-on-one situation to try and 'break-through' the packed defence.

Play Wider (stretch the defence and create gaps) could also be helpful.

[parano1c]

Thanks for all the replies guys much appreciated.I'm off testing

[yonko]

For Parano1c's benefit could you explain why that is so (s)he understands why you say this? Cheers

If I really have to.....

Retain Possession is too extremely patient approach that doesn't lead to many CCCs, it slows the play way too much and gives the opposition's defense time to organize themselves. Pass Into Space is useless because there is not that much space to pass to and this instruction just gives away the ball needlessly.

Run at the Defense instruction allows the players to take on the opposition's players and break down their organized defensive stance, open up some possibilities for goalscoring chances. Exploit the Flanks focuses the play down the wings, increases the width of the team and makes wide players more aggressive in attack (mentality and forward runs).

Try and envisage what an instruction means, in terms of a packed defence.

Higher tempo can take advantage of space, before a defence gets organised. However - if that defence starts organised and packed, higher tempo isn't going to be advantageous. If anything, 'hurrying' your attacking lowers your pass accuracy, in an area which is already lacking space. It's counter productive.

To get through a packed defence, you could work openings - patient, probing passing. Work Ball Into Box, Shorter Passing, Retain Possession.

Alternatively, depending on your players, you could ignore the packed defence - and shoot from distance, at any opportunity. Shoot On Sight.

Again, as llama says, you could Run At Defence - individual players taking on an opponent in a one-on-one situation to try and 'break-through' the packed defence.

Play Wider (stretch the defence and create gaps) could also be helpful.

Retain Possession is not that effective against packed defenses. It numbs the attack too much. I would use Lower Tempo instead - it's just the right amount of patiences needed. Also, instead of Play Wider, I prefer to use Exploit the Flanks because it offers the same as Play Wider but adds more aggressive wide players (fullbacks, wing backs, wide midfielders and wide attacking midfielders/forwards).

[redmark]

If I really have to.....

Retain Possession is too extremely patient approach that doesn't lead to many CCCs, it slows the play way too much and gives the opposition's defense time to organize themselves. Pass Into Space is useless because there is not that much space to pass to and this instruction just gives away the ball needlessly.

Run at the Defense instruction allows the players to take on the opposition's players and break down their organized defensive stance, open up some possibilities for goalscoring chances. Exploit the Flanks focuses the play down the wings, increases the width of the team and makes wide players more aggressive in attack (mentality and forward runs).

Retain Possession is not that effective against packed defenses. It numbs the attack too much. I would use Lower Tempo instead - it's just the right amount of patiences needed. Also, instead of Play Wider, I prefer to use Exploit the Flanks because it offers the same as Play Wider but adds more aggressive wide players (fullbacks, wing backs, wide midfielders and wide attacking midfielders/forwards).

As ever, it probably depends on one's players - but my teams have scored many goals, against packed defences, with a patient 'retain possession' approach, including the TI itself and even in combination with shorter passing, lower tempo. I don't think any TI is an absolute command, but a tendency or preference. So 'retain possession' in this context is just 'don't give the ball away cheaply'. With shorter passing, lower tempo and work ball into box all combined, yes that's probably quite a heavily emphasised tendency - but (with a certain system and type of player, perhaps) still can be the best way to provide goals against a tight defence that refuses to be drawn out.

[wkdsoul]

Hey Llama, quick update. my weird regista x2 effort morphed into this.

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[llama3]

That is a funky formation! Interesting balance to the side too.

[gurbei]

what do you suggest for 4141 lone striker?i play target man mandzukic but its not performing well

[llama3]

what do you suggest for 4141 lone striker?i play target man mandzukic but its not performing well

Almost certainly a Support duty due to risk of isolation. So DLF, CF or F9 support. For Mandzukic - the first 2 are more appropriate. Lone Target Man players, especially without midfield runners are notoriously isolated.

[gurbei]

Almost certainly a Support duty due to risk of isolation. So DLF, CF or F9 support. For Mandzukic - the first 2 are more appropriate. Lone Target Man players, especially without midfield runners are notoriously isolated.

my tactic was(fc bayern):

fb/a---cd/d---cd/d---fb/s

dm/d

w/s---b2b/s---ap/a--w/a

targetman/a

this was my tactic before your advice.i lost only 3 games in my 1st season and 1 was against atletico cl semifinal reverse game.1st game i won 4-1 at home and lost 3-0 second and eliminated.everything started to go bad.im in 2nd season and cant deal the away games.i played 2 games with dlf/S and 2 games with cf/s won the home games,drew the away games.what can you suggest more?

[llama3]

my tactic was(fc bayern):

fb/a---cd/d---cd/d---fb/s

dm/d

w/s---b2b/s---ap/a--w/a

targetman/a

this was my tactic before your advice.i lost only 3 games in my 1st season and 1 was against atletico cl semifinal reverse game.1st game i won 4-1 at home and lost 3-0 second and eliminated.everything started to go bad.im in 2nd season and cant deal the away games.i played 2 games with dlf/S and 2 games with cf/s won the home games,drew the away games.what can you suggest more?

Well what is going wrong specifically - very vague request otherwise.

[gurbei]

Well what is going wrong specifically - very vague request otherwise.

cf/s helped actually but i always concede goals from through balls i tried everything but couldnt find a solution.i made traiing def pos concede from set pieces made training def set piec concede through balls my def is bad actually.

[llama3]

Conceding goals from through-balls means that basically you have left space in behind you and/or not pressed the ball well enough to prevent the pass. So it is the shape of your team and not pressing well enough, or it is sitting too high. Or both.

[wkdsoul]

That is a funky formation! Interesting balance to the side too.

Yep, eventually led to this.. Won 4-0

-

[Rob4590]

No criticism intended at you, wkdsoul, but I find it quite sad when a formation that is totally unworkable in real life (ie totally illogical) works that well. But that is a problem with the match engine.

Your formation (IMO) breaks just about every 'rule' that wwfan, llama etc have advised - there is no movement between the lines, no width, no one who is obviously the 'scorer' etc.

[James9]

Hi Llama during the Easter Break I have reading about the Counter Pressing system explained by a poster on the Word Press blog. So now I am thinking about trying this set up with Arsenal.

Shape: 4-2CM-3AMC-1 - I think this shape is better for pressing - but could you advice if the 4-2-3-1 wide is a better shape for pressing than the 4231 narrow.

Mentality: Attacking

Fluidity: Very Fluid

Roles:

Goalkeeper - Defend (PI - Distribute to Defenders)

Right Full Back - Attack (PI - Stay Wider)

Central Defender - Defend x2 (PI - More Direct Passes)

Left Wing Back - Support (PI - Stay Wider)

Central Midfielder/Ball Winning Midfielder- Defend (PI - Mark Tighter) - Arteta/Flamini. I think a ball winning midfielder will be better for applying more pressure allowing the team to win the ball more quickly upfield in dangerous positions.

Deep Lying Playmaker - Support (PI- Mark Tighter) - Ramsey

Attacking Midfielder - Support (PI - Run Wide With Ball) - Cazorla

Advanced Playmaker - Support (PI - More Direct Passes)-Ozil

Shadow Striker - Attack - Wilshere or Podolski. I might try and also sign Draxler.

Defensive Forward - Support - Giroud ( I am unsure on if a Advance Forward would be better here) I think defensive forward press better.

TIs: Play Narrower, Push Higher Up, Shorter Passing, Play Out Of Defence (Not sure about this, as I'm sure it conflicts with asking CDs to play more direct) and Higher Tempo.

I think the key to the pressing is players with Aggression and Work Rate i.e BVB's entire team. More importantly though is setting man marking instructions. The DF should be instructed to mark the right sided centre back and the AMC should mark the left sided centre back. This creates the two up front preventing the opposition from playing out from the back. Now with AMCL and AMCR I will have the ability to vary the marking depending on the opposition. Should they be a very strong team, ask them to mark the oppositions wingers, to create a more compact, flat 4-4-2. launched some very effective counter attacks from deep due to the Shadow Striker and Attacking Midfielder being so deep. However, when at home or facing a team I am confident of beating I will ask them to mark the full backs to keep the other team hemmed in and pile on the pressure. It also results in great chances to steal the ball upfield as it actively limits the goalkeeper to play into the central zone of the pitch where the midfield and defence can apply heavy pressure, much like BVB do in real life.

Cleon did a excellent post on how to handle teams that park the bus that I will try and replicate. When teams park the bus I will change my mentality from attacking to control and drop the push higher up shout. This should make my defense line drop a bit deeper so I should I have more space to play in.

I did think about going with a 4-4-1-1 shape from reading your threads and taking your advice the 4-2-3-1 shape seems better for heavy pressing and keeping pressure on the opponent. The other shape I will use is the 4-1-4-1 formation for the games when I want to dominate the midfield. From what Cleon posted on his thread it is also possible to apply heavy pressing when using the 4-1-4-1 formatio and it seems that the formation can become a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 with the correct player roles and duties. Would really like to get your tactical advice on feedback on my ideas and set up.

[wkdsoul]

Rules? pfft. Always go for the W. That was just a one of game, the 2 DLP's are usually in the WB position, giving a much better balance. I just wanted to see what the game would turn out like.

Surprisingly the movement between the lines in the front 3 is pretty good , the ball is kept and then fed into the Treq when he drops into space, as the F9's are already dropping the CB's deep, when they start to break back forward, you get some nice slide passes inbetween.

but yeah, it usually plays like this =

[Reedy_1988]

Hi, llama3.

Now i must start with i know you have stated within this thread your initial formation you mentioned in Post #1 isn't a plug & play tactic. But having chosen to begin as Brighton and looking at their squad capabilites it seemed a good base for a formation & the style of football to suit IMO my only adjustment is removing 'More Expressive' as there obviously not quite on par with Arsenal's creativity. However looking at the comparisons page my defence seems rather weak in a fair few areas as you can see here,

How could i adjust my formation accordingly, deeper D-line? Stand Off?

Now to my reasons for posting is my concern is defending!! i am struggling a lot against a side that plays 442 as 90% of their goals come from either through balls inside my central defender and full back. Or crosses from the byline.

Any ideas on how i could combat this, well and truly stumped right now...

Also how do you set up to defend set pieces may i ask?

[okd]

@james9

have you started your save ? I'm curious about the results,I think that setup is suicide

[llama3]

Hi Llama during the Easter Break I have reading about the Counter Pressing system explained by a poster on the Word Press blog. So now I am thinking about trying this set up with Arsenal.

Shape: 4-2CM-3AMC-1 - I think this shape is better for pressing - but could you advice if the 4-2-3-1 wide is a better shape for pressing than the 4231 narrow.

Mentality: Attacking

Fluidity: Very Fluid

Roles:

Goalkeeper - Defend (PI - Distribute to Defenders)

Right Full Back - Attack (PI - Stay Wider)

Central Defender - Defend x2 (PI - More Direct Passes)

Left Wing Back - Support (PI - Stay Wider)

Central Midfielder/Ball Winning Midfielder- Defend (PI - Mark Tighter) - Arteta/Flamini. I think a ball winning midfielder will be better for applying more pressure allowing the team to win the ball more quickly upfield in dangerous positions.

Deep Lying Playmaker - Support (PI- Mark Tighter) - Ramsey

Attacking Midfielder - Support (PI - Run Wide With Ball) - Cazorla

Advanced Playmaker - Support (PI - More Direct Passes)-Ozil

Shadow Striker - Attack - Wilshere or Podolski. I might try and also sign Draxler.

Defensive Forward - Support - Giroud ( I am unsure on if a Advance Forward would be better here) I think defensive forward press better.

TIs: Play Narrower, Push Higher Up, Shorter Passing, Play Out Of Defence (Not sure about this, as I'm sure it conflicts with asking CDs to play more direct) and Higher Tempo.

I think the key to the pressing is players with Aggression and Work Rate i.e BVB's entire team. More importantly though is setting man marking instructions. The DF should be instructed to mark the right sided centre back and the AMC should mark the left sided centre back. This creates the two up front preventing the opposition from playing out from the back. Now with AMCL and AMCR I will have the ability to vary the marking depending on the opposition. Should they be a very strong team, ask them to mark the oppositions wingers, to create a more compact, flat 4-4-2. launched some very effective counter attacks from deep due to the Shadow Striker and Attacking Midfielder being so deep. However, when at home or facing a team I am confident of beating I will ask them to mark the full backs to keep the other team hemmed in and pile on the pressure. It also results in great chances to steal the ball upfield as it actively limits the goalkeeper to play into the central zone of the pitch where the midfield and defence can apply heavy pressure, much like BVB do in real life.

Cleon did a excellent post on how to handle teams that park the bus that I will try and replicate. When teams park the bus I will change my mentality from attacking to control and drop the push higher up shout. This should make my defense line drop a bit deeper so I should I have more space to play in.

I did think about going with a 4-4-1-1 shape from reading your threads and taking your advice the 4-2-3-1 shape seems better for heavy pressing and keeping pressure on the opponent. The other shape I will use is the 4-1-4-1 formation for the games when I want to dominate the midfield. From what Cleon posted on his thread it is also possible to apply heavy pressing when using the 4-1-4-1 formatio and it seems that the formation can become a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 with the correct player roles and duties. Would really like to get your tactical advice on feedback on my ideas and set up.

Very Fluid - yet Ball Winning Midfielder, Deep Lying Playmaker, Shadow Striker, Advanced Playmaker, Defensive Forward... - hope you see the issue.

Hi, llama3.

Now i must start with i know you have stated within this thread your initial formation you mentioned in Post #1 isn't a plug & play tactic. But having chosen to begin as Brighton and looking at their squad capabilites it seemed a good base for a formation & the style of football to suit IMO my only adjustment is removing 'More Expressive' as there obviously not quite on par with Arsenal's creativity. However looking at the comparisons page my defence seems rather weak in a fair few areas as you can see here,

How could i adjust my formation accordingly, deeper D-line? Stand Off?

Now to my reasons for posting is my concern is defending!! i am struggling a lot against a side that plays 442 as 90% of their goals come from either through balls inside my central defender and full back. Or crosses from the byline.

Any ideas on how i could combat this, well and truly stumped right now...

Also how do you set up to defend set pieces may i ask?

Frankly with a defence as quick as that - as long as your team's overall workrate and aggression are ok - go for the high line instead.

[James9]

Very Fluid - yet Ball Winning Midfielder, Deep Lying Playmaker, Shadow Striker, Advanced Playmaker, Defensive Forward... - hope you see the issue.

Thanks Llama. I guess I need to follow the guides and principles more than reading other threads and blogs on how to set up my team. i guess it will be back to the drawing board for me. I am really getting tired of these failed attemps trying to understand how to play this game.

I look at my team comparison page and from the info it does not seem that Arsenal is suited to a heavy pressing style of game. They seem to be more suited to a techincal style of play which is built on passing and patiently probing until that killer pass leads to a goal.

I like my teams to press high up the pitch and win the ball in the other teams final third turning defence into attack before the other team can re organize. I love watching German Bundesliga and I admire the way how Klopp and Pep get their teams to press and win the ball back early. I know that it is almost impossible to recreate the style of play or pressing in FM14. another think is when I read advice on how to press on FM14 I keep getting different advice. Some tactical mods are against using hassle opponents TI and others are claiming that if you use a high line with employing the hassle opponent shout you will be killed because pushing the defence line up without hassle opponent will allow the other team to much time on the ball to pick your team apart.

And this is why I am so confused because everyone has a different outlook on what is right or wrong. If you can help me to achieve my end goal then that would be great. But if you feel that I should go away and figure the game out for myself then I understand. All I request is that if you feel I need to read more and play more then please point me in the direction of other sites or blogs so that I can get information on how to create that style of play with tools given to me in FM14.

[llama3]

You seem to scattergun a few ideas without knowing why, or, forget earlier things you've learned.

Arsenal in real life have found they can't press like they want to effectively enough - which is why they are slightly more pragmatic. You have to play to your teams strengths too. Regarding Hassling - it's all about using it at the right time. When you push the line up it automatically increases pressing - so you should not sit static and high.

[James9]

Very Fluid - yet Ball Winning Midfielder, Deep Lying Playmaker, Shadow Striker, Advanced Playmaker, Defensive Forward... - hope you see the issue.

Frankly with a defence as quick as that - as long as your team's overall workrate and aggression are ok - go for the high line instead.

You seem to scattergun a few ideas without knowing why, or, forget earlier things you've learned.

Arsenal in real life have found they can't press like they want to effectively enough - which is why they are slightly more pragmatic. You have to play to your teams strengths too. Regarding Hassling - it's all about using it at the right time. When you push the line up it automatically increases pressing - so you should not sit static and high.

Llama I have been reading through a lot of previous post asking for help and advice and you are right that. I also read how you set up your Arsenal team and it has given me some ideas also. You did mention that their are times when you use a defensive strategy as your main starting strategy instead of counter Could I just get your advice on which strategy is better for keeping shape when you are playing against top teams or teams that park the bus.

[llama3]

The more defensive the strategy - the less the closing down instructions are - so players are more inclined to keep shape. I tend to play Counter/Standard against bigger sides depending on my approach.

[aderow]

llama3 how do you feel about playmakers?

[llama3]

llama3 how do you feel about playmakers?

I love Playmakers!

[aderow]

I love Playmakers!

Haha so do I. I remember when I first started playing FM, I always used pick a playmaker and a target man because I thought you had to. As I learned more, I got to a place where I wanted my football to be more fluid without heavily relying on any one player. And then FM10 came out with the TC, and while saying to myself 'I don't want to playmakers', I picked playmakers

In a way I guess I've been in a bit of denial. These last few years, I've been telling myself I don't like playmakers, while I've been using them

So recently I removed them from my tactics and I saw an immediate, significant change in my teams style of play. In a way, I've felt like that my overall performances have slipped. I've also seen certain players seeing the ball way more than I'd like (my FBs in particular. My RB has had 2 matches where he's approaching 100 passes completed; at least 10 more than anyone else in my side).

I thought about what I could do to 'remedy' the situation. Given the fact that I had this idea of my team being this cohesive unit that didn't rely too much on part of the attack, that sounds a like I should give 'fluid' or 'very fluid' a try. At the same time, I could stay on 'balanced' and bring back the playmakers

Because I still really do like the idea of 'balanced'. Decisions Decisions.

[llama3]

I like getting my play running through my key creative outlets - always feel that they can change a game for me, so I want them at the centre of it.

[aderow]

I like getting my play running through my key creative outlets - always feel that they can change a game for me, so I want them at the centre of it.

That's probably for the best. Cheers for the response

[janesy20]

Read your whole initial post with great interest - spent about 3 horus doing everything as you suggested...played first two games of season lost to Fulham at home and 5-0 away at Man City.

*sigh*

*puts game away*

I think I need to stick to the earlier football manager versions, this has just become far too complicated.

[js150]

So I've implemented these theories with great successes to build a couple of tactics I'm really happy with so thanks Llama!

I play a 4-2-3-1 the most, it is setup as follows:

GK - GK (D)

RB - CWB (A)

LB - FB (S)

CB - CD (D)

CB - CD (D)

RCM - DLP (D)

LCM - B2B (S)

RWM - IF (S)

AMC - T (A)

LWM - W (A)

ST - CF (S)

Every player has the Short Passing instruction, with a few other players having some additional instruction (at work and can't remember them off the top of my head).

Balanced Philosophy

Counter Style for the most part but sometimes switch to Control Style.

Team Instructions - I have 10 of these, which at first I thought would be far too many. I thought I would give it a go anyway and see how it worked out. No problems so stuck with 10 as they all add value to the way I wish to play.

They are:

Retain Possession

Shorter Passing

Pass into Space

Work Ball into Box

Play Out of Defence

Push Higher

Offside Trap

Hassle Opponents

Lower Tempo

+1 other - Can't remember this one (could be Exploit The Middle)

I was trying to base this tactic on Mauricio Pochettino Southampton, especially the way they were playing early this season. Possession football, short passing, moving etc while also closing down the opponent quickly to regain possession and not giving them a chance to get the ball out from the back. I hope to move the Style more from a Counter to a Control through the years as my players improve.

The major issue I found with using this tactic at first was mistakes at the back and dallying on the ball allow the opponent to steal posesion. I think this was down to a couple of things, 1st the players unfamiliarity with the tactic. I had been promoted from the Championship with Leeds the season before playing a Narrow 4-1-3-2 with 1 DM and 3 x CM's. Also I had made about 6-7 new signings in pre season, the most of which were coming straight into the starting 11 so unfamiliarity with one another was there.

So when I first started using this tactic it didn't quite flow and the players seemed very slow to do anything. I encountered a couple of losses and a few high scoring draws due to mistakes at the back but after about 5 games it really came into it's own. Am now sitting in 7th place after 30 games in my 1st season back in the Premiership with Leeds. I've only lost 5-6 games all season!

My best starting 11 if anyone is interested is:

GK: Alex McCarthy

RB: Sam Byram

LB: Danilo Avelar

CB: Tom Lees

CB: John Stones - Signed in January

CM: Luke Murphy

CM: Will Hughes

RWM: Tom Ince

AMC: Ross McCormack

LWM: Ryan Gauld / Gary Mackay-Steven

St: Connor Wickham

[llama3]

Excellent work there. This is exactly how I imagined people applying the guide. Top stuff.

[yonko]

I love Playmakers!

I like getting my play running through my key creative outlets - always feel that they can change a game for me, so I want them at the centre of it.

So if you love playmakers so much does that mean you never use Very Fluid fluidity?

[janesy20]

I was trying to base this tactic on Mauricio Pochettino Southampton, especially the way they were playing early this season. Possession football, short passing, moving etc while also closing down the opponent quickly to regain possession and not giving them a chance to get the ball out from the back. I hope to move the Style more from a Counter to a Control through the years as my players improve.

But they don't nor ever have this season played that formation, Wanyama is an Anchorman/Defensive midfielder at best, where do you allow for that in your formation? If half the stuff on written on here wasn't absolute rubbish then people wouldn't be struggling with the game as they are!

[js150]

But they don't nor ever have this season played that formation, Wanyama is an Anchorman/Defensive midfielder at best, where do you allow for that in your formation? If half the stuff on written on here wasn't absolute rubbish then people wouldn't be struggling with the game as they are!

Emphasis on the "Base on" I didn't say trying to replecate it player for player. It's more the High pressing possession football part I'm trying to replecate.

[janesy20]

Emphasis on the "Base on" I didn't say trying to replecate it player for player. It's more the High pressing possession football part I'm trying to replecate.

Ok, fair enough. I've just loaded up a Southampton league and going to give a similar tactic to yours a try, but using Wanyama as a BWM instead of a B2B midfielder. According to this page, the DLP (D) should hold position whilst wanyama is free to break up play further up the pitch. I don't hold out much hope mind.

[js150]

Ok, fair enough. I've just loaded up a Southampton league and going to give a similar tactic to yours a try, but using Wanyama as a BWM instead of a B2B midfielder. According to this page, the DLP (D) should hold position whilst wanyama is free to break up play further up the pitch. I don't hold out much hope mind.

If it doesn't work could always try playing Wanyama as a DLP (D) and Schneiderlin as a B2B (S) they should provide enough defensive cover and more attacking play imo.

[llama3]

So if you love playmakers so much does that mean you never use Very Fluid fluidity?

Correct

But they don't nor ever have this season played that formation, Wanyama is an Anchorman/Defensive midfielder at best, where do you allow for that in your formation? If half the stuff on written on here wasn't absolute rubbish then people wouldn't be struggling with the game as they are!

If you are moaning about this thread don't use and don't post on it. If you want help, then be constructive. This is me making the effort out of my own spare time to help people, as are all the other help threads here.

[janesy20]

If it doesn't work could always try playing Wanyama as a DLP (D) and Schneiderlin as a B2B (S) they should provide enough defensive cover and more attacking play imo.

Wanyamas creativity is too low for that role for my liking. I'm up for new ideas and totally get that I need a more attacking emphasis it's just a real struggle to find the balance between the two centre mids and between the wingers/striker in this game. We shall see

[Southern Buddie]

I'm really struggling on these forums to know who is right and who is wrong. There are so many differing opinions, ways and methods when it comes to everything tactical.

In an aim to fully understand this part of the game. I am going to start a new save with Man Utd in the hope if bettering David Moyes' attempt with the Red Devils this season and improving my knowledge along the way.

I would be very much greatful to you for your help Llama as, reading through your threads, you seem to make the most sense to me.

Can I count on you?

[llama3]

I'm really struggling on these forums to know who is right and who is wrong. There are so many differing opinions, ways and methods when it comes to everything tactical.

In an aim to fully understand this part of the game. I am going to start a new save with Man Utd in the hope if bettering David Moyes' attempt with the Red Devils this season and improving my knowledge along the way.

I would be very much greatful to you for your help Llama as, reading through your threads, you seem to make the most sense to me.

Can I count on you?

Yes - start your own thread and we can keep the advice in there.

[chippyluke]

hi llama

just wondering if there is any chance you could show your duties / roles and team shouts for 4-2DM -3- 1 formation please and maybe an explanation of how it works

thanks

[llama3]

hi llama

just wondering if there is any chance you could show your duties / roles and team shouts for 4-2DM -3- 1 formation please and maybe an explanation of how it works

thanks

They were exactly the same in the identical positions, with a DM(D) and DLP(S) in the DM positions. It was used when I wanted to sit a shade deeper and not concede space behind (i.e. big games, away particularly - like City etc)

[MeesterCat]

Hi Llama,

I think this is a suitable thread for my question - It concerns less a pairing, but rather a combination.

Ages ago, on this forum in the probably FM12 era, someone posted this article: http://www.footballitaliano.co.uk/p6_66_5643_the-golden-triangle-calcios-trending-formation.html

I read it at the time and found it interesting, but now as manager of Inter it's been nagging at me. I'm in the first summer transfer window since becoming manager and so am able to start properly moulding the team into my vision - I'm starting to think that I'm going to try to recreate this 'Golden Triangle'. I've always found combining a front two with a player in the AMC position slightly awkward, but I'm determined to make it work this time. So, how would you interpret these roles?

My current thinking is this:

AMC :: Fantasista :: Enganche or Advanced Playmaker - Attack depending on the player?

STR :: Prima Punta :: Complete Forward - Support

STR :: Velocista :: Advanced Forward - Attack with Roam from Position TI?

[llama3]

Excellent question and idea. Really got me thinking. Normally the way I view a team that plays with no wingers and an AMC, is to see how the AMC finds space - as it stands to reason, if you man mark him, with a DM, you've got him tied up right? Well the article mentions the lateral movement, so to me, this has only 1 real option - a Trequartista - someone who pulls out to the flanks and drags men, or finds space - complete technical & creative licence.

For the Prima Punta and Velocista I originally thought of the PP as an Advanced Forward, then of course we looked at for example Ibrahimovic not exactly being quick, then obviously the Velocista needs to be quick - a role based around getting wide or behind the defence. So to be honest, I think your forward pairing of CF(S) & AF(A) is a superb choice, all 3 players will offer excellent lateral and vertical movement. A really excellent combination, that a Trequartista would only enhance.

[MeesterCat]

Cheers for the speedy reply!

I don't know why I didn't think of a Treq for the Fantasista role. I'd possibly got too hung up on the attributes of the players I currently have rather than projecting the idealised role for the combination.

I'll certainly try to post some updates here to demonstrate how it works (or not).

[llama3]

Cheers for the speedy reply!

I don't know why I didn't think of a Treq for the Fantasista role. I'd possibly got too hung up on the attributes of the players I currently have rather than projecting the idealised role for the combination.

I'll certainly try to post some updates here to demonstrate how it works (or not).

Absolutely, would love to see how this works out.

[lennon67]

I would love to see this as well MeesterCat.

[lucas.lotr]

Hello guys, I am new to the forums and could really use the help of more experienced managers. I started playing FMC a few weeks ago and have had a wonderful time, however I seem to only be a match to much weaker teams. I read your excelent tips in the OP and tried to refine my tactics, however still no luck. My main issues are creation and possession, opportunities are rare and players give away possession very easily even when using reduced tempo and shorter passes. This is my current formation:

-----TMA-------CFA----

-----------APA----------

--WMS------------WMS--

-------RGAS---DMD------

-----CDX--CDC--CDX-----

-----------GK------------

As for team instructions I usually start with lower tempo and short passing to try and counter our horrible possession and sometimes more discipline to maintain tactical shape. Mentality and fluidity usually start balanced. Since I am a new player I deduced I must be doing something very wrong to have these results so if you guys could give your opinion on my tactical setup I would appreciate.

[llama3]

Your issues are very obvious Lucas - you have almost no real movement. TM(A), AP(A), WM(S), DM(D), 3 x CD - all very static. Even more striking is that your forwards are all attack duties, defensive players defending, and midfield players all support duties - these need seriously rebalancing, otherwise you get 3 very isolated little blocks - so I would suggest reading wwfan's 12 step guide, stickied at the top of the forum and try and rebalance your duties a bit more.

[davidmn27]

Hi Llama3, great thread. Its helped me a lot

I'm struggling with my midfield diamond in a counter-attacking 41221. I have Matic, McCarthy, Ramsey and Wilshere to choose from and generally opt for this -

A D (McCarthy or Matic)

B2B (Ramsey) AP A (Wilshere)

Thats with walcott and ozil on the wings. The problem I have is the DM and B2B tend to get very poor ratings and I cant figure out why. Their passing and tackling stats are decent and nothing stands out to me, they just dont seem to be performing to a high level.

So any suggestions on a counter-attacking trio with a DM?? Thank u